Realistic Intruder Theories
Capricorn

New York, NY

#24 Mar 21, 2007
RiverRat wrote:
How could Fleet entertain the Ramseys at his house at the same time he was lying in wait at theirs?! LOL - NOT even remotely possible!
Oh now RR,

You know as well as the rest......

ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE IN BOULDER, except the Ramsey family being murderers!

Tired Of Censorship

Since: Nov 06

Roseville, CA

#25 Mar 21, 2007
RiverRat wrote:
How could Fleet entertain the Ramseys at his house at the same time he was lying in wait at theirs?! LOL - NOT even remotely possible!
There are those darned pesky facts again RR.
joejam

Edmond, OK

#26 Mar 21, 2007
too much to swallow for an intruder.....
RiverRat

Lehigh Acres, FL

#27 Mar 21, 2007
Tired Of Censorship wrote:
<quoted text>
There are those darned pesky facts again RR.
I gotta BEE me!
Henrietta McPhee

Plymouth, UK

#28 Mar 21, 2007
RiverRat wrote:
How could Fleet entertain the Ramseys at his house at the same time he was lying in wait at theirs?! LOL - NOT even remotely possible!
The Ramseys were in bed by about 11pm. We only have Priscilla White's word for it that Fleet White went to bed at 11pm.

You don't have to be a clever criminal to go over to the Ramsey house at about midnight with a Ramsey house key and then take JonBenet away with you. I could have done it myself.

There is also the little matter of this so called caroling at Fleet White's house on Christmas Day 1996. None of the genius detectives in the Boulder police, or FBI, ever verified who was involved in that caroling, or if Fleet White was telling the truth about that matter or if Fleet was still there when the Ramseys left Fleet's house.

Fleet and his murder pals might have gone to the Ramsey house to do some caroling, and gone inside the Ramsey house at the same time!

As Judge Carnes said in 2003 there is no evidence against any Ramsey except for the fact that the Ramseys were inside the Ramsey house when JonBenet was murdered.
Nuisance

United States

#29 Mar 21, 2007
And Judge Carnes never got to see the police file on the Ramsey case, which was some 40,000 pages thick. She may have had a different tune to whistle if she had seen all of the evidence in the case, rather than what the RST offered.

There is no forensic evidence placing FW in the R house that night, but there is fiber evidence placing Patsy there when the ligature was constructed and tied around JonBenet's neck. FW hasn't tried to hide from police and hinder investigation but that's all the Rs have done from day one.

It's not that hard to figure out, people.
Tired Of Censorship

Since: Nov 06

Roseville, CA

#30 Mar 21, 2007
Henrietta McPhee wrote:
<quoted text>
The Ramseys were in bed by about 11pm. We only have Priscilla White's word for it that Fleet White went to bed at 11pm..
We only have the people under the umbrella of suspicion saying they were in bed by 11! I would believe PW over the Ramseys.
Henrietta McPhee wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't have to be a clever criminal to go over to the Ramsey house at about midnight with a Ramsey house key and then take JonBenet away with you. I could have done it myself..
Did you?
Henrietta McPhee wrote:
<quoted text>
There is also the little matter of this so called caroling at Fleet White's house on Christmas Day 1996. None of the genius detectives in the Boulder police, or FBI, ever verified who was involved in that caroling, or if Fleet White was telling the truth about that matter or if Fleet was still there when the Ramseys left Fleet's house..
How do you know? Do they all report to you?
Henrietta McPhee wrote:
<quoted text>
Fleet and his murder pals might have gone to the Ramsey house to do some caroling, and gone inside the Ramsey house at the same time!.
FW and his “MURDER PALS”? And aren’t you the person who says they don’t make unfounded accusations, LMAO?
Henrietta McPhee wrote:
<quoted text>
As Judge Carnes said in 2003 there is no evidence against any Ramsey except for the fact that the Ramseys were inside the Ramsey house when JonBenet was murdered.
That wasn’t what Carnes said. And you are also conveniently forgetting that Carnes didn’t have all the information with which to make an informed decision.
Capricorn

New York, NY

#31 Mar 21, 2007
" None of the genius detectives in the Boulder police, or FBI, ever verified who was involved in that caroling, or if Fleet White was telling the truth about that matter or if Fleet was still there when the Ramseys left Fleet's house."

I sure hope you have a source for these FACTS. Please share them with the rest of the public

I can't figure WHY you would say that. Even IF FW was the ONLY person that wasn't investigated, I'm sure everyone's HERO, Smit would certainly check this out and report it if there was something to report. And let's not forget that the TEAM of Ramseys's personal investigators couldn't find anything sinister about White to report.

Judge Carnes is a moron. How come you don't mention that even Ramsey BFF Mary Lacy hasn't cleared the Ramseys?

I know you don't mean to do it, but when you, Mame and some others OMIT certain important details when you tell a story, people will get the wrong impression of total Ramsey innocence

Just thought I'd point that out

I'll be watching for your source that law enforcement didn't check Fleet White

What I'd REALLY like to know is WHO checked out the STINES! Nobody ever seems to want to mention them, but if there was EVER a Ramsey acquaintance that raises red flags besides the Ramseys themselves, it's the Stines.

Patricia Fox

Atlanta, GA

#32 Mar 21, 2007
Henrietta McPhee wrote:
<quoted text>
The Ramseys were in bed by about 11pm. We only have Priscilla White's word for it that Fleet White went to bed at 11pm.
You don't have to be a clever criminal to go over to the Ramsey house at about midnight with a Ramsey house key and then take JonBenet away with you. I could have done it myself.
There is also the little matter of this so called caroling at Fleet White's house on Christmas Day 1996. None of the genius detectives in the Boulder police, or FBI, ever verified who was involved in that caroling, or if Fleet White was telling the truth about that matter or if Fleet was still there when the Ramseys left Fleet's house.
Fleet and his murder pals might have gone to the Ramsey house to do some caroling, and gone inside the Ramsey house at the same time!
As Judge Carnes said in 2003 there is no evidence against any Ramsey except for the fact that the Ramseys were inside the Ramsey house when JonBenet was murdered.
Patsy stated that FW and KIDS went out for A LITTLE WHILE caroling. This is self-explanatory because if they had not come back WHILE PATSY WAS STILL THERE, she would have said that Fleet left to go caroling...We have posted this about a thousand times but you refuse to look at anything that does not fit your theory.. That is a real shame because if you would take all the FACTS as they are presented to you, you might just be able to figure out the truth of that night.
Henrietta McPhee

Plymouth, UK

#33 Mar 21, 2007
Nuisance wrote:
FW hasn't tried to hide from police and hinder investigation but that's all the Rs have done from day one.
It's not that hard to figure out, people.
Are you seriously suggesting that Fleet White has been frank, and candid, and open, and forthright in the Ramsey case? Fleet White ran a mile rather than having to testify in the Colorado v Miller Ramsey case related court case in 2001. Fleet was jailed for about a month for that.

All Fleet White has ever done is cosy up to the very inexperienced Boulder cops, and try to get the Ramseys put in prison by having a crooked special prosecutor like Brian Murtagh of the U.S Department of Justice apopointed.

Fleet White did testify in the Chris Wolf libel case, but he insisted his deposition was sealed. Fleet had a bad attack of amnesia every time he was aked any queation about the Ramsey case.

I can't see what the Stines have got to do with it. They are first-class people, and very supportive of the Ramseys. There's no need to accuse Susan Stine of anything just because she suspects Fleet White. You find out who your real friends are when you find your daughter murdered by an intruder.

This is what Boulder police chief Mark Beckner said once about how candid, frank, and open Fleet White was in the Ramsey case:

21 Q. "Chief Mark Beckner declared to

22 the Whites, who had supported another

23 candidate for his new job, were 'morally

24 empty' and again suggested putting Fleet White

25 in jail."

429

1 When did that occur?

2 A. That was late spring, I believe,

3 of '98, certainly in 1998. But I recall

4 this.

5 Q. Do you recall Mark Beckner ever

6 asking you if you thought that Fleet White

7 could possibly be the murderer?

8 A. Mr. Wood, I think maybe even in

9 this same passage.

10 Q. I think that's where it is, here

11 it is, I'm sorry. "'For what?' I had asked

12 Beckner incredulously. Beckner later asked me

13 if Fleet could possibly be the murderer."

14 Have I read that correctly?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. That would have been a comment

17 made in 1998 by Chief Beckner?

18 A. That's correct.
RiverRat

Muskegon, MI

#34 Mar 21, 2007
Oh please....there were far more people than Priscilla in the White home that night to vouch for where Fleet was and where he was NOT.
Henrietta McPhee

Plymouth, UK

#35 Mar 21, 2007
Tired Of Censorship wrote:
<quoted text>
That wasn’t what Carnes said. And you are also conveniently forgetting that Carnes didn’t have all the information with which to make an informed decision.
Mark Beckner, and Steve Thomas, and Fleet White, and Dr Stratbucker, and Darnay's handwriting experts, all appeared at that Chris Wolf libel case. How would it have been much different if it had been a Ramsey trial?

The only thing that seemed to be lacking was any talk about Ramsey fibers on the duct tape, and in the ligature, and the paint tray, and in JonBenet's crotch area. Darnay Hoffman could have asked Steve Thomas and Mark Beckner about that matter if he had wanted to.

Perhaps the reason is that Mark Beckner and Steve Thomas didn't want to tell lies about those fibers on oath under penalty of perjury?

There was nothing to stop Mark Beckner and Steve Thomas presenting any evidence to the court that they wanted to in that Chris Wolf case. The problem was they didn't have any evidence against the Ramseys. Whatever happened to all the conclusive evidence against the Ramseys that Fleet White was going to present to a court in a Ramsey trial as a 'key' witness?

This is an exact quote from Judge Carnes from March 2003:

"Further whereas Detective Smit's summary testimony concerning the investigation is based on evidence, Detective Thomas' theories appear to lack substantial evidentiary support.(Id.) Indeed, while Detective Smit is an experienced and respected homicide detective, Detective Thomas had no investigative experience concerning homicide cases prior to this case.(Smit. Dep. at 69.) In short, the plaintiff's evidence that the defendants killed their daughter and covered up their crime is based on little more than the fact that defendants were present in the house during the murder."
Kimberly

AOL

#36 Mar 21, 2007
yacky wrote:
Why would writing a note be risky? If he was in the home a few hours or less before they got home, what was risky?
A stranger ,of course, would have most likely taken her. Not someone who knew the family. What would he have done with her? I doubt he wanted her dna in his car or home. Besides the best part to him was doing it right under John's nose.
Just because you may have a hard time squeezing through a window dosen't mean everyone would. If he was of a normal weight, no problemo.
LOL for your information I weigh 110 lbs WET. I still wouldn't go through a window like that when the backdoor was easy to jimmy.
And what are you talking about; "what would he do with her?" You're either a complete moron or you never read the autopsy.
It's posts and thinking like your's that makes this forum look like a drunk tank.
Capricorn

New York, NY

#37 Mar 21, 2007
For those who have COMMON SENSE:

If Fleet had anything at all to hide, he would not make himself stick out like a sore thumb in this investigation.

He would have cooperated with anything and everything the Ramseys and their abettors did, bringing NO attention to themselves.

If Fleet were the murderer, he would have cozied up to the RAMSEYS, insulating himself and his family from people like you.

He would have testified anywhere, not gone to jail, not made enemies of the very powerful Ramseys and their disgusting ilk. He would not be writing letters, asking for a SPECIAL PROSECUTOR.

As far as the Stines, they are nothing more than an extension of the Ramseys. The Ramseys barely socialized with them BEFORE the murder.

Do you think people like Susan Stine and Patsy Ramsey are "first class people" when they tell another man's wife that he has a mistress....
AS A JOKE?????????? And years later, re-tell it as though it was just the funniest thing in the world. Yeah, that's class in some parts of the planet. Just first rate humor!

The Stines, IMHO, are accessories to murder, aiding and abetting the Ramseys, whether it be Patsy, John or Burke.

They are murderers.

Henrietta has saved me a bundle on emetics!
RiverRat

Muskegon, MI

#38 Mar 21, 2007
Capricorn wrote:
For those who have COMMON SENSE:
If Fleet had anything at all to hide, he would not make himself stick out like a sore thumb in this investigation.
He would have cooperated with anything and everything the Ramseys and their abettors did, bringing NO attention to themselves.
If Fleet were the murderer, he would have cozied up to the RAMSEYS, insulating himself and his family from people like you.
He would have testified anywhere, not gone to jail, not made enemies of the very powerful Ramseys and their disgusting ilk. He would not be writing letters, asking for a SPECIAL PROSECUTOR.
As far as the Stines, they are nothing more than an extension of the Ramseys. The Ramseys barely socialized with them BEFORE the murder.
Do you think people like Susan Stine and Patsy Ramsey are "first class people" when they tell another man's wife that he has a mistress....
AS A JOKE?????????? And years later, re-tell it as though it was just the funniest thing in the world. Yeah, that's class in some parts of the planet. Just first rate humor!
The Stines, IMHO, are accessories to murder, aiding and abetting the Ramseys, whether it be Patsy, John or Burke.
They are murderers.
Henrietta has saved me a bundle on emetics!
Bravo! Encore! Sheer Perfection!!!
Dots

AOL

#39 Mar 21, 2007
Trying to discuss this case with Henrietta is like trying to teach my dog to cook dinner. Impossible.

Henrietta - all we have is the Ramseys word that they went to bed that night before midnight too. How is it so nefarious for the Whites but just dandy for the Ramseys? Plus, FW had guests who corroborated his alibi,- the Ramseys only had themselves. You are aggravating in your refusal to think with any reason.

FW's carolers were NEIGHBORS - not odd strangers. FW went out for a few minutes and FW was home when the Ramseys left. He is the one that told the police what time the Ramseys left his home. You have nothing more than a fertile imagination to think more of this incident that it appears to be.

I can not waste another second of my time trying to explain to you the difference between a civil case and a criminal trial, or the fact that NO ONE is required to make any statements under oath in a deposition which will reveal anything in an ongoing criminal investigation and this includes witnesses. If you don't get it yet, you never will.

Even the Judge in the civil trial was not privy to the ongoing investigation file. The only items of evidence that could have been introduced would have been those that Wolf was able to uncover in order to support his accusations that the Ramseys murdered their child. It is not a big surprise that Wolf did not have enough evidence to prove by a "preponderance of evidence" ("more likely than not" to the lay person) that the Ramseys committed the crime, which is the standard in civil cases. He is not entitled to obtain the evidence in the investigation files in order to defend himself and anything the Ramseys obtained through their lawyers from the DA is simply not discoverable. If you do not understand what "discoverable" means, ask me.
Read and learn for Pete's sake.
joejam

AOL

#40 Mar 21, 2007
If Fleet White or an accomplice had done this...it would have been figured out by now. He was one that was "an inside job". Guys, get a clue. Why is this so hard. Even if we are all parents,...parents do kill.....accidently. Patsy was to extreme in her saying she weaved death in to her Christmas, with the purple, with the My Twinn Doll.... I don't understand it, just like you don't....but it is true ..,,and parents do kill. Even if accidently.
joejam

AOL

#41 Mar 21, 2007
and as I've said in the past, that intruder had to have wore a space suit. You couldn't get any DNA past this? Not kosher guys. Tell me, Idi, why you believe they were okay with this and let it fall by the wayside? You can not tell me otherwise. John was the target. But no longer after his baby was murdered? Doesn't make any sense. fight for my justice. fight for my justice. How can you? When you are the ones that murdered me (if even accidently) and then you covered up? You never say never. You don't. If JonBenet could speak now, she would. Patsy may be there now....wherever there is. but I bet it is not heaven.
Mary

Lancaster, PA

#42 Mar 22, 2007
joejam wrote:
Tell me, Idi, why you believe they were okay with this and let it fall by the wayside? You can not tell me otherwise. John was the target. But no longer after his baby was murdered?
Good point, joejam! If someone hated John Ramsey enough, per the ransom note, to murder his daughter, why did they let their son go to a neighbor's house, without police surveillance?

Why did they avoid talking to police for four months, if a foreign faction hated John Ramsey enough to kill his daughter? I'd be running to the cops for protection, not moving to Atlanta and building a very expensive addition to my new home (which would probably only infuriate the foreign faction even more...they don't like "fat cats").

What do you think?
Henrietta McPhee

Plymouth, UK

#43 Mar 22, 2007
joejam wrote:
and as I've said in the past, that intruder had to have wore a space suit. You couldn't get any DNA past this? Not kosher guys. Tell me, Idi, why you believe they were okay with this and let it fall by the wayside? You can not tell me otherwise. John was the target. But no longer after his baby was murdered? Doesn't make any sense. fight for my justice. fight for my justice. How can you? When you are the ones that murdered me (if even accidently) and then you covered up? You never say never. You don't. If JonBenet could speak now, she would. Patsy may be there now....wherever there is. but I bet it is not heaven.
All the intruder murderer had to do was wear gloves. He didn't need to wear a space suit.

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