Evidence against Patsy Ramsey

Evidence against Patsy Ramsey

Posted in the JonBenet Ramsey Forum

First Prev
of 17
Next Last
candy

East Lansing, MI

#1 Jun 13, 2007
This crucial evidence the Ramsey apologists always "forget". Please save this quote and use it for reference. From the Atlanta 2000 interviews with John and Patsy Ramsey:

21 Q. We have found, and I want you to
22 help us, maybe you can offer an explanation
23 for this. We have found fibers in the paint
24 tray that appear to come off of the coat in
25 the photograph we showed you.
0184
1 A. In the paint tray?
2 Q. Yes.
3 A. What's a paint --
and

MR. LEVIN: I think that is
4 probably fair. Based on the state of the
5 art scientific testing, we believe the fibers
6 from her jacket were found in the paint
7 tray, were found tied into the ligature found
8 on JonBenet's neck, were found on the blanket
9 that she is wrapped in, were found on the
10 duct tape that is found on the mouth, and
11 the question is, can she explain to us how
12 those fibers appeared in those places that
13 are associated with her daughter's death.
14 And I understand you are not going to answer
15 those.
Yacky

Avondale, AZ

#2 Jun 13, 2007
That's funny, that's the first I've heard of the same fibers being found on the White blanket or in the cord around her neck.

What about the foreign hair found on the white blanket. You forgot about that?
Henrietta McPhee

Plymouth, UK

#3 Jun 13, 2007
Yacky wrote:
That's funny, that's the first I've heard of the same fibers being found on the White blanket or in the cord around her neck.
What about the foreign hair found on the white blanket. You forgot about that?
It sounds to me like Dr Henry Lee was up to his old tricks of evidence, fabricated out of whole cloth, to me. Why doesn't Levin present some real evidence about these red fibers, like a forensic report?

I could quite easily say that Fleet White's pajama fibers were found in JonBenet's mouth if I didn't have to back that up with any good documentation.

Those Patsy clothes were never collected until a year after the murder. The Boulder police and Henry Lee then 'found' the red fiber evidence more than a year after the murder when they had to present some evidence against the Ramseys at the Grand Jury.

Steve Thomas, who was supposed to be a Ramsey case lead detective, definitely said in his deposition in 2001 that the only red fibers found at the crime scene were on the duct tape. If red fibers were found anywhere else, then Levin must have been employing a magician.

In any case if there were red fibers at the crime scene there are plenty of plausible explanations for that, some of which have been mentioned in the past by Detective Lou Smit.
Patricia Fox

Atlanta, GA

#4 Jun 13, 2007
Henrietta McPhee wrote:
<quoted text>

I could quite easily say that Fleet White's pajama fibers were found in JonBenet's mouth if I didn't have to back that up with any good documentation.
This is too sick for words.
Nelly

AOL

#5 Jun 13, 2007
Patricia Fox wrote:
<quoted text>This is too sick for words.
Hey PF:D there's one in every crowd;)
jameson

Hickory, NC

#6 Jun 13, 2007
candy wrote:
This crucial evidence the Ramsey apologists always "forget". Please save this quote and use it for reference. From the Atlanta 2000 interviews with John and Patsy Ramsey:
21 Q. We have found, and I want you to
22 help us, maybe you can offer an explanation
23 for this. We have found fibers in the paint
24 tray that appear to come off of the coat in
25 the photograph we showed you.
0184
1 A. In the paint tray?
2 Q. Yes.
3 A. What's a paint --
and
MR. LEVIN: I think that is
4 probably fair. Based on the state of the
5 art scientific testing, we believe the fibers
6 from her jacket were found in the paint
7 tray, were found tied into the ligature found
8 on JonBenet's neck, were found on the blanket
9 that she is wrapped in, were found on the
10 duct tape that is found on the mouth, and
11 the question is, can she explain to us how
12 those fibers appeared in those places that
13 are associated with her daughter's death.
14 And I understand you are not going to answer
15 those.
It wasn't a new coat - Patsy had worn it many times and the simple fact is that there were fibers from HER coat in HER paint tote. Probably because she wore her coat to class or when she took her tote outside to paint.

The killer, we know, took a paintbrush from the tote to make the garrote.

The FACT is, the killer, whether family or intruder, probably transferred the fibers to the garrote and tape during the commission of the crime.

It would seem the killer did that. But that is not evidence against PATSY.

More important are the fibers that were in her hand and genitals that have yet to match anything. We would love to know where the dark blue and light brown fibers came from - and the animal hairs. And that DNA --- not from anyone in the family. DNA found under her nails and mixed with the blood in her panties.

The Intruder theory is far more likely -- ask the DA and federal judge.
Patricia Fox

Hogansville, GA

#7 Jun 13, 2007
Nelly wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey PF:D there's one in every crowd;)
Hey, Nelly...For sure. LOL
Patricia Fox

Hogansville, GA

#8 Jun 13, 2007
jameson wrote:
<quoted text>

The FACT is, the killer, whether family or intruder, probably transferred the fibers to the garrote and tape during the commission of the crime.
It would seem the killer did that. But that is not evidence against PATSY.
The fibers were TOO NUMEROUS and TOO WIDESPREAD [garrote, duct tape, blanket, paint tote] to be random transfers. Since no one else in possession of her jacket, guess what?
Steph

Birmingham, AL

#9 Jun 13, 2007
jameson wrote:
<quoted text>
It wasn't a new coat - Patsy had worn it many times and the simple fact is that there were fibers from HER coat in HER paint tote. Probably because she wore her coat to class or when she took her tote outside to paint.
OK, well how about her coat fibers found twisted into the garrotte???? How many times had she used that device???
Miles

Redmond, WA

#10 Jun 13, 2007
jameson wrote:
Probably because she wore her coat to class or when she took her tote outside to paint.
Patsy HERSELF said she NEVER wore that sweater-jacket while painting or while in the basement. Her sweater-jacket fibers were found in DIRECT ASSOCIATION with elements of the crime because she was the perpetrator (along with John and possibly Burke).
Henrietta McPhee

Plymouth, UK

#13 Jun 14, 2007
Steph wrote:
<quoted text>
OK, well how about her coat fibers found twisted into the garrotte???? How many times had she used that device???
You must take into account that what the lawyer Levin said about fibers twisted into the garrotte is not evidence.'What the soldier said' is not evidence as they say in law books. What Levin said is not evidence either.

I'm not saying Levin was lying about that. I am saying that Levin refused point blank to present any forensic report that there were red fibers entangled in the garrotte. If Levin wants to present that fiber information to a court he must back it up with good documentation, and present the FACTS to a court, and certainly not with forged lab forensic reports.

My own theory is that Dr Henry Lee may have just told Levin that there were red fibers in the garrotte, or else Henry Lee fabricated those red fibers at the crime scene out of whole cloth in a forensic fraud, when he was working for the Boulder police, as he has done in other murder cases in the past.

The strange thing is Steve Thomas never mentioned any Patsy red fibers entangled in the garrotte during his deposition in 2001. Why would that be if it was such crucial and conclusive evidence? I don't know what Steve Thomas said about the matter of red fibers in his book, if anything.

These liar prosecutors suddenly coming up with 'entangled' fibers seems to be quite common in America. I suppose it's a quick and easy way to persuade and impress a jury. The trouble is it's more often than not fiction and not the truth.

In the false conviction of Dr Jeffrey MacDonald there were similar fictional 'entangled' fibers. That has now been proved. In the MacDonald case the liar prosecutors said MacDonald's pajama fibers were on the murder weaoon when in fact those fibers were black wool fibers from an unknown source.

The only reason the lawyers in that MacDonald case, like Levin in the Ramsey case, got away with it is because the relevant lab notes and forensic reports were hidden from the defense by the MacDonald prosecution lawyers Murtagh and Blackburn. The MacDonald appeal court judges never put their foot down about the matter, which was very wrong of them.

This is what junior detective Steve Thomas said about Patsy red fibers in his 2001 deposition. There is no mention at all of red fibers in garrottes here. I wonder why not?

A. If I understand the question

2 correctly, and now just rephrase it so I'm

3 answering the right question or --

4 Q. Yeah, when JonBenet Ramsey was

5 found she was wearing I don't know what other

6 word there is for it but panties and there

7 was a question as to whether or not there

8 were substances found in that panty area.

9 What I'm asking you is do you know if there

10 was ever any forensic evidence indicating that

11 any article of clothing that Patsy wore was

12 found as a particle in that panty area of

13 JonBenet?

14 A. No, I am unaware of any forensic

15 or fiber evidence from Patsy Ramsey's clothing

16 to the victim's under clothing or underwear.

17 Q. Do you know if there was any

18 forensic evidence of Patsy Ramsey's clothing

19 at all besides the duct tape area on

20 JonBenet?

21 A. As we sit here now, no, I don't

22 recollect any other fiber evidence, other than

23 what we have discussed linking the mother to

24 JonBenet.
Fools Gold

Grand Rapids, MI

#14 Jun 14, 2007
Is the coat of a type that would be worn when using an artist's tote? Is the coat one that might be worn as an outer garment when going somewhere to paint?
Are fibers from the coat found elsewhere in the house other than the artist's tote?
I can't see some loving parent killing their kid and I sure can't see it as being supported by such flimly "evidence".
Patricia Fox

Atlanta, GA

#16 Jun 14, 2007
Fools Gold wrote:
Is the coat of a type that would be worn when using an artist's tote? Is the coat one that might be worn as an outer garment when going somewhere to paint?
Are fibers from the coat found elsewhere in the house other than the artist's tote?
I can't see some loving parent killing their kid and I sure can't see it as being supported by such flimly "evidence".
If you will read Candy's post as the author of this thread, I think it will answer your questions.
Dee

Woodbury, NJ

#18 Jun 14, 2007
rudeCURT wrote:
.
You'll regret calling Patsy the killer and you will be punished... somehow... someway... I promise you!
Don't make promises you can't keep...
Henrietta McPhee

Plymouth, UK

#19 Jun 14, 2007
Patricia Fox wrote:
<quoted text>If you will read Candy's post as the author of this thread, I think it will answer your questions.
If there were any red fibers at the crime scene there is no real evidence that they were Patsy's fibers. I don't like questioning the integrity of forensic experts.

I'm willing to accept there may have been red fibers in the paint tray. There has never been any forensic report about that made public. I'm willing to accept it as fact. The four red fibers on the duct tape seem a bit too convenient for the Boulder police to me. The talk of red fibers entangled in the garrotte sound like manufactured evidence to me.

Those red fibers were only ever similar or consistent with Patsy's clothes. It has never been proved where those fibers came from, or who manufactured those fibers. Mike Kane seemed very confident they were Patsy's fibers but he would be if he knew that Dr Henry Lee had put them there in the first place.
Capricorn

New York, NY

#20 Jun 14, 2007
rudeCURT wrote:
<quoted text>
Patsy Ramsey DID NOT kill JonBenet!
JonBenet was killed by a serial killer I dubbed The Framester. The S.B.T.C stands for an altered version of The Framester's nickname.
You'll regret calling Patsy the killer and you will be punished... somehow... someway... I promise you!
Soon... I will be laughing at all the fools like you who think Patsy killed her daughter JonBenet!
You could be right and it could be John instead of Patsy. Thanks for reminding us

You are going to be waiting a long time for your laugh
icedtea4me

Saint Louis, MO

#22 Jun 14, 2007
rudeCURT wrote:
<quoted text>
Patsy Ramsey DID NOT kill JonBenet!
JonBenet was killed by a serial killer I dubbed The Framester. The S.B.T.C stands for an altered version of The Framester's nickname.
Ah, The Framester! Framing up The Frame Man! Frama-Lama-Ding-Dong! Senor Framo! The Framemeister!
Steph

Kent, AL

#23 Jun 14, 2007
rudeCURT wrote:
<quoted text>
Patsy Ramsey DID NOT kill JonBenet!
JonBenet was killed by a serial killer I dubbed The Framester. The S.B.T.C stands for an altered version of The Framester's nickname.
You'll regret calling Patsy the killer and you will be punished... somehow... someway... I promise you!
Soon... I will be laughing at all the fools like you who think Patsy killed her daughter JonBenet!
Don't know about the serial killer part, but she was certainly killed by s serial liar!
icedtea4me

Saint Louis, MO

#26 Jun 14, 2007
rudeCURT wrote:
<quoted text>O.J. Simpson was innocent... he was also a victim of The Framester. I found The Framester's clues.
No, what you found was the treasure chest after you finished the maze on the back of your box of Captain Crunch cereal.
Steph

Kent, AL

#27 Jun 14, 2007
rudeCURT wrote:
<quoted text>
Patsy never wrote the note. The Framester wrote the note... the S.B.T.C stands for an altered version the The Framester's nickname. Did you ever LOOK at the ransom note?
O.J. Simpson was innocent... he was also a victim of The Framester. I found The Framester's clues.
It appears that what you ought to be searching for is your crack pipe.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker
First Prev
of 17
Next Last

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

JonBenet Ramsey Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
To: Heather79 9 min BrokenPcs 19
Basement Toilet Flood (Jul '17) 42 min Jeena 14
John's involvement (Oct '15) 1 hr HJT 56
Prime of Miss Jean Brodie (Jul '13) 6 hr Blue Bottle 11
IT is now ... 7 hr Blue Bottle 1
Flashlight as Weapon (Dec '16) 10 hr Anonymous 16
Name of friend who cut ties with Patsy Ramsey (Aug '16) 12 hr Anonymous 12