Letter from Patsy Ramsey, June, 2004

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#30
Mar 3, 2013
 

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Blue Bottle wrote:
The key to this case is the signature of this case which is the literature tied to this case. The family Bible was open to the Psalms. Patsy was known to comment on Psalm 118 to family and friends. There is an intialism connection between the ransom note and Psalm 35, NIV. That should narrow down the path of investigation 0f 118 to the direction of the Psalm. It shold also narrow down the investigation to the idea that the ransom note was written as a piece of inside information, meaning the confusing aspects of the case to outsiders is sensible to insiders.
I say Patsy was the only insider.
I know their minister mentioned that and one of their housekeeper's said the upstairs Bible was often open to Psalm 118. Additionally, the book Patsy used to help heal herself,_Healed of Cancer_ by Dodie Osteen, includes one line of Psalm 118 in a mantra of 40 Bible excerpts.

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#31
Mar 3, 2013
 
Oops. Make "housekeeper's" "housekeepers."

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#32
Mar 3, 2013
 

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I suppose there are some who think this was a kidnapping gone bad. I’m not one of them. I’m also at odds with the idea that the 118 was supposed to have any meaning for the Ramseys. I offered up 15 or more possibilities for the meaning of 118 and probably all of them are wrong. So, coincidences abound. What are we to think?

In Mindhunter we have a chapter titled Killing the Ones We Love and in that chapter Douglas/Olshaker write,“The key to many murders of and by loved ones or family members is staging. Anyone that close to the victim has to do something to draw suspicion away from himself or herself.”

The chapter’s opening case is a mother that murdered her son and buried him, wrapping the body in a blanket and covering it with a thick plastic bag to protect it. She reported a kidnapping.

Next case: Douglas/Olshaker describes “[o]ne of the earliest examples” of staging by family member/loved one encountered by Douglas: the murder of Linda Dover the day after Christmas. Dover was murdered, blunt force trauma, stab wounds, wrapped in comforter, stuffed in crawlspace; the day after Christmas.

Next case: husband alive, claims fighting with an intruder and an assault from behind, blunt force to head and attempted strangulation from behind with some kind of cord or ligature, rendered unconscious – intruder flees. Wife found upstairs in bedroom, dead from strangulation.

Douglas/Olshaker discusses strangulation as a sign of personal cause, about the need to make victims comfortable and prevent discovery by other family members by hiding the body, he discusses “fake” kidnappings, etc. a couple more cases are presented.

During the period of time leading up to Christmas, 1996,(retired) FBI (don’t try to grow a brain John) Douglas and co-author Olshaker’s Mindhunter (a book on FBI profiling) was on the bestseller list.

On page 144 of Mindhunter (paperback ed.) the authors mention data collected from 118 victims as part of a study that later helped form the book Sexual Homicides: Patterns and Motives (118, is mentioned numerous times in Sexual Homicides: Patterns and Motives).

Interestingly, between pages 137 -166 of Mindhunter four killers are discussed in this order: S on of Sam; B tk; T railside Killer; C armine Calabro. S.B.T.C

Coincidence? Almost certainly. So, why did the killer use 118? I don't know.


AK

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#35
Mar 4, 2013
 

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Anti-K wrote:
I suppose there are some who think this was a kidnapping gone bad. I’m not one of them. I’m also at odds with the idea that the 118 was supposed to have any meaning for the Ramseys. I offered up 15 or more possibilities for the meaning of 118 and probably all of them are wrong. So, coincidences abound. What are we to think?
In Mindhunter we have a chapter titled Killing the Ones We Love and in that chapter Douglas/Olshaker write,“The key to many murders of and by loved ones or family members is staging. Anyone that close to the victim has to do something to draw suspicion away from himself or herself.”
The chapter’s opening case is a mother that murdered her son and buried him, wrapping the body in a blanket and covering it with a thick plastic bag to protect it. She reported a kidnapping.
Next case: Douglas/Olshaker describes “[o]ne of the earliest examples” of staging by family member/loved one encountered by Douglas: the murder of Linda Dover the day after Christmas. Dover was murdered, blunt force trauma, stab wounds, wrapped in comforter, stuffed in crawlspace; the day after Christmas.
Next case: husband alive, claims fighting with an intruder and an assault from behind, blunt force to head and attempted strangulation from behind with some kind of cord or ligature, rendered unconscious – intruder flees. Wife found upstairs in bedroom, dead from strangulation.
Douglas/Olshaker discusses strangulation as a sign of personal cause, about the need to make victims comfortable and prevent discovery by other family members by hiding the body, he discusses “fake” kidnappings, etc. a couple more cases are presented.
During the period of time leading up to Christmas, 1996,(retired) FBI (don’t try to grow a brain John) Douglas and co-author Olshaker’s Mindhunter (a book on FBI profiling) was on the bestseller list....

Interestingly, between pages 137 -166 of Mindhunter four killers are discussed in this order: S on of Sam; B tk; T railside Killer; C armine Calabro. S.B.T.C
Coincidence? Almost certainly. So, why did the killer use 118? I don't know.
By including these examples of staging by family members are you suggesting that an intruder staged the scene to implicate one of the Ramseys? If so, I'm half there.

If I thought both Ramseys were necessary to write that note, I'd plump down on the side of an intruder for the reason you mentioned: why the inside jokes? Why would two people compose a note ostentatiously sprinkled with big foam fingers pointing back at one of them?

A long time ago I asked myself why the cops thought John was not involved in the murder or the staging. I decided it was because of the lack of alibi completion. Instead of looking like she'd just gotten up, Patsy looked like she'd been up all night. Something must have prevented her from adding those important finishing touches: removing her makeup and getting into her pajamas. What would it be other than John getting up?(Steve Thomas makes a brief reference to the above in his book so I assume the corroborating details fall into place: John's shower and sink wet; Patsy's dry.)

If I think of one Ramsey creating an obviously fake ransom note and staging a sexual assault to point at another, the dominoes fall into place. You talked about the broken window on another thread. At one time I thought it was unthinkable that the window would still be broken from the summer, but now I think it's possible because Patsy was dysfunctional, John was checked out and the housekeeper obviously never set foot in that room. Maybe the broken window gave Patsy the idea of setting John up as the fall guy.

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#38
Mar 4, 2013
 

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Fr_Brown wrote:
<quoted text>
By including these examples of staging by family members are you suggesting that an intruder staged the scene to implicate one of the Ramseys? If so, I'm half there.
If I thought both Ramseys were necessary to write that note, I'd plump down on the side of an intruder for the reason you mentioned: why the inside jokes? Why would two people compose a note ostentatiously sprinkled with big foam fingers pointing back at one of them?
A long time ago I asked myself why the cops thought John was not involved in the murder or the staging. I decided it was because of the lack of alibi completion. Instead of looking like she'd just gotten up, Patsy looked like she'd been up all night. Something must have prevented her from adding those important finishing touches: removing her makeup and getting into her pajamas. What would it be other than John getting up?(Steve Thomas makes a brief reference to the above in his book so I assume the corroborating details fall into place: John's shower and sink wet; Patsy's dry.)
If I think of one Ramsey creating an obviously fake ransom note and staging a sexual assault to point at another, the dominoes fall into place. You talked about the broken window on another thread. At one time I thought it was unthinkable that the window would still be broken from the summer, but now I think it's possible because Patsy was dysfunctional, John was checked out and the housekeeper obviously never set foot in that room. Maybe the broken window gave Patsy the idea of setting John up as the fall guy.
I’ve never really understood the rationale of one Ramsey leaving messages to the other in the ransom note. Not if both were involved, and not if only one was involved. If a message needed to be delivered, why do it in writing? Why do it for all – investigators, anyway - to see? And, how could one know that the other one would “get it?” And, if the other one “got” it, how could the first one know that the other would stand by them, help them, support them?

As for Mrs Ramsey’s appearance that morning, I’ve never understood the fuss. In fact, it sounds “normal” to me. Late night, early morning, short prep time, private flight, why not out of bed and straight into the clothes…? But, that’s just me.

Mr Ramsey may have been “excused” in part because they may have thought it unlikely that he would be involved in the death (and/or cover up) of one daughter when he was still mourning the loss of another; plus, absence of incriminating evidence and/or motivation.

There is sufficient evidence in the window area to show that someone came through there at some time. Is this evidence all from Mr Ramsey’s summer entry? Or, did someone else enter a month, a week, a few days prior to the night of the murder? I don’t know.


AK

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#41
Mar 5, 2013
 

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Fr_Brown wrote:
<quoted text>
By including these examples of staging by family members are you suggesting that an intruder staged the scene to implicate one of the Ramseys? If so, I'm half there.
It would make sense for a cunning and well organized killer to create as much confusion around a crime scene as possible. What if a lot of what we believe to be significant "clues" are really nothing more than red herrings designed to misdirect investigators and send them off on the wrong path? The ransom note with its strange ransom demand may be the biggest red herring of them all. It's not realistic that a Ramsey COULD write that note after staging such a horrific crime scene nor that they WOULD incriminate themselves that way. But a kidnapper doesn't leave a ransom note and a dead body in the house.

A narcissistic psychopath, however, who believed himself to be supremely intelligent and wanted to prove he could outsmart the police, may do just that. The note was so OBVIOUSLY incriminating to the Ramseys that it actually had the potential to exculpate them. So why not kill the child but also leave a ransom note and let the chips fall where they may?

Since: Sep 11

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#42
Mar 5, 2013
 

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Anti-K wrote:
<quoted text>
There is sufficient evidence in the window area to show that someone came through there at some time. Is this evidence all from Mr Ramsey’s summer entry? Or, did someone else enter a month, a week, a few days prior to the night of the murder? I don’t know.

AK
Or did the killer notice the broken basement window and use it to his advantage by creating yet another red herring to cause chaos and confusion?

Since: Sep 11

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#43
Mar 5, 2013
 

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Anti-K wrote:
<quoted text>
As for Mrs Ramsey’s appearance that morning, I’ve never understood the fuss. In fact, it sounds “normal” to me. Late night, early morning, short prep time, private flight, why not out of bed and straight into the clothes…? But, that’s just me.

AK
I absolutely agree with you, AK. She said she spent some time that morning applying her make-up and that must be true as there is a HUGE difference between make-up which is freshly applied and stale make-up from the day before. If her make-up was old, it would have shown and the police would have noticed. If, OTOH, she was guilty and had enough presence of mind to apply fresh make-up before calling the police, she'd have also had the foresight to change her clothing while she was at it knowing it would seem suspicious if she wore the same clothing as the day before. IMO.

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#44
Mar 5, 2013
 

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Anti-K wrote:
I’ve never really understood the rationale of one Ramsey leaving messages to the other in the ransom note. Not if both were involved, and not if only one was involved. If a message needed to be delivered, why do it in writing? Why do it for all – investigators, anyway - to see? And, how could one know that the other one would “get it?” And, if the other one “got” it, how could the first one know that the other would stand by them, help them, support them?
As for Mrs Ramsey’s appearance that morning, I’ve never understood the fuss. In fact, it sounds “normal” to me. Late night, early morning, short prep time, private flight, why not out of bed and straight into the clothes…? But, that’s just me....
I'm not suggesting that Patsy was leaving messages for John. I'm suggesting she wrote it with the intention that he would be suspected to be the author once the police figured out it was an inside job.

Patsy didn't just put on clothes from the evening before. She put on all her makeup.(She told police she got up at 5:30 or later and spent 25 minutes putting on her makeup before spending 5-15 minutes scrubbing an item of JonBenet's clothing they weren't even taking on the trip.) My point is not that this shows her to be guilty (though it's odd behavior for someone who is in a little bit of a hurry--and the times don't work). My point is that she was prevented from putting the finishing touches on her alibi.

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#46
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And I was trying to make the point that it's not necessarily intruder wrote ransom note vs. the Ramseys wrote it together. If you look at things from the vantage point that Patsy wrote it alone, some things that seemed inexplicable actually make some sense.

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#51
Mar 5, 2013
 

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Fr_Brown wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not suggesting that Patsy was leaving messages for John. I'm suggesting she wrote it with the intention that he would be suspected to be the author once the police figured out it was an inside job.
Patsy didn't just put on clothes from the evening before. She put on all her makeup.(She told police she got up at 5:30 or later and spent 25 minutes putting on her makeup before spending 5-15 minutes scrubbing an item of JonBenet's clothing they weren't even taking on the trip.) My point is not that this shows her to be guilty (though it's odd behavior for someone who is in a little bit of a hurry--and the times don't work). My point is that she was prevented from putting the finishing touches on her alibi.
Clothes, make-up, yes, I understand. It all sounds reasonable and believable to me.

I must confess that I don’t remember any of the details about what was said regarding Mrs Ramsey’s appearance that morning. Yes, she was dressed in the same clothes as the night before, but nothing beyond that. Has anyone said that it looked like she was wearing the same make-up for the last 14 or so hours? I don’t remember that.

Are you suggesting that Mrs Ramsey was trying to frame Mr Ramsey and that she used the ransom note (her notepad, not his) for that? Are you saying she wanted the police to figure out it was an inside job?


AK

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#52
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Fr_Brown wrote:
And I was trying to make the point that it's not necessarily intruder wrote ransom note vs. the Ramseys wrote it together. If you look at things from the vantage point that Patsy wrote it alone, some things that seemed inexplicable actually make some sense.
Yes, I understand that some think that the Mrs wrote the note, alone; and some think the Mr wrote the note, alone; and some think one dictated it to the other or they both collaborated, and so on…
I’m not sure what things that “seem inexplicable” are made sense by supposing that the Mrs wrote the note alone.


AK

“YES”

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#53
Mar 6, 2013
 

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There are varying theories regarding the note by RDI, but I think it is fair to say that the majority of RDI's believe that both parents were involved with the note but Patsy actually put the pen to paper.

There are few who believe that one of the Ramseys committed this crime to the oblivion of the other Ramseys in the house that night.

As for the makeup, Patsy claimed she put on fresh makeup that morning as Fr. Brown has posted so that is a moot point regarding having old makeup on and others being able to notice it. No matter the details of the crime, I am sure there were more than a few tears shed that night/morning and fresh makeup was in order, even for that.

Like her need to look like Jackie O for the funeral and worry about her appearance for such a sad event, when those are the times you just don't pay so much attention to your own appearance, she made sure to look her best that morning too.

Patsy had her priorities

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#54
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Anti-K wrote:
Clothes, make-up, yes, I understand. It all sounds reasonable and believable to me.
I must confess that I don’t remember any of the details about what was said regarding Mrs Ramsey’s appearance that morning. Yes, she was dressed in the same clothes as the night before, but nothing beyond that. Has anyone said that it looked like she was wearing the same make-up for the last 14 or so hours? I don’t remember that.
Are you suggesting that Mrs Ramsey was trying to frame Mr Ramsey and that she used the ransom note (her notepad, not his) for that? Are you saying she wanted the police to figure out it was an inside job?
The first officer on the scene noticed that she was in full makeup. I don't know if he thought her makeup needed freshening up. My point is really that, assuming she's guilty, this argues that she was working alone and was prevented from putting the finishing touches on her alibi. It would only have taken a minute or two to wash her face and put on pajamas. Something prevented her from doing that.

Undoubtedly she wanted the police to think that an intruder did it. But if they did, as they did, figure out that it was someone inside the home, she probably wouldn't want to be the one to take the fall.

John was the one who told the police that one pad was his and the other was hers. Actually, as I recall, the cop asked John for an example of his writing and an example of hers and that's when he handed over the two pads which were otherwise identical. No doubt she kicked herself for overlooking that detail.

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#55
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Capricorn wrote:
There are varying theories regarding the note by RDI, but I think it is fair to say that the majority of RDI's believe that both parents were involved with the note but Patsy actually put the pen to paper.
There are few who believe that one of the Ramseys committed this crime to the oblivion of the other Ramseys in the house that night.
As for the makeup, Patsy claimed she put on fresh makeup that morning as Fr. Brown has posted so that is a moot point regarding having old makeup on and others being able to notice it. No matter the details of the crime, I am sure there were more than a few tears shed that night/morning and fresh makeup was in order, even for that.
Like her need to look like Jackie O for the funeral and worry about her appearance for such a sad event, when those are the times you just don't pay so much attention to your own appearance, she made sure to look her best that morning too.
Patsy had her priorities
I think Steve Thomas was expressing the majority view of the police department when he opined that Patsy worked alone that night.

Your view that she and John spent 5.5 hours laboring on a cover-up only to dynamite it by having one of them look like she'd been up all night strikes me as absurd. Patsy might be that foolish, but I doubt John would be.

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#56
Mar 6, 2013
 

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Anti-K wrote:
Yes, I understand that some think that the Mrs wrote the note, alone; and some think the Mr wrote the note, alone; and some think one dictated it to the other or they both collaborated, and so on…
I’m not sure what things that “seem inexplicable” are made sense by supposing that the Mrs wrote the note alone.
You're the one who called $118,000 self-incriminating. I'm agreeing with you. Why is it there? It seems to have been carefully chosen. There's "SBTC" from the Bible in John's study, open to that psalm. The psalm before it is the one that John reads to Patsy on her deathbed. Was it a favorite? There's a reference to John's club, the Atlanta Fat Cats. There's a family joke about John being southern. These aren't the kinds of things that are below the level of consciousness; they were chosen. What is this ransom note writer doing?

Btw, when they're discussing the note, Kane asks Ramsey who would want to frame him.

Add in the fibers from John's wool shirt lavishly placed in JonBenet's underwear.

I realize from your point of view this all points to an intruder. That's fine. But the idea that both Ramseys would labor over this note--and I mean labor; there are nine pages missing before the practice note and at least one of those nine is another practice note--to ensure that it's filled with inside information, all of it pointing to John, stretches credulity to the breaking point.
Steve Eller

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#62
Mar 6, 2013
 
Oodie wrote:
Your personality is just like of whom ever you are describing, there were 2 others that night lets not forget that!And who live and do not care to search who did this 1 ioda about there beloved passed sister daughter.
Good point.

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#63
Mar 6, 2013
 

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Fr_Brown wrote:
<quoted text>
You're the one who called $118,000 self-incriminating. I'm agreeing with you. Why is it there? It seems to have been carefully chosen. There's "SBTC" from the Bible in John's study, open to that psalm. The psalm before it is the one that John reads to Patsy on her deathbed. Was it a favorite? There's a reference to John's club, the Atlanta Fat Cats. There's a family joke about John being southern. These aren't the kinds of things that are below the level of consciousness; they were chosen. What is this ransom note writer doing?
Btw, when they're discussing the note, Kane asks Ramsey who would want to frame him.
Add in the fibers from John's wool shirt lavishly placed in JonBenet's underwear.
I realize from your point of view this all points to an intruder. That's fine. But the idea that both Ramseys would labor over this note--and I mean labor; there are nine pages missing before the practice note and at least one of those nine is another practice note--to ensure that it's filled with inside information, all of it pointing to John, stretches credulity to the breaking point.
We may agree that it could be self-incriminating for a Ramsey to use 118, but I see this is an argument against a Ramsey author and you do not.
If the 118 is a reference to the bonus amount, than psalm 118 becomes coincidence, and vice versa. If one of these things is coincidence, then they both could be coincidence.

If the number had been 52 I should not be surprised to learn that this too could be connected to the Ramseys, somehow. Seek and you will find.

Is there Ramsey “inside info” in the note? Not necessarily. Although I didn’t see it at first, I’ve become rather fond of the idea that Dirty Harry (the movie) is alluded to; I’ve seen a pretty good argument for The Mikado as being the major influence. And, then there’s all that FBI stuff. Or, Blue Bottle’s psalms. Who knows? Seek and you will find.
...

AK
Toney

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#65
Apr 2, 2013
 

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Blue Bottle wrote:
The answer is ther was no stagen.
That baswement right ther is the openen to a very interstings case that everyone is misnig out on.
How could the police not know there was staging?
Nobodyudno

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#67
Apr 3, 2013
 

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The FBI stated the crime scene showed "staging within staging." I'll go with their opinion.

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