Phone Records
Steve Eller

Brooklyn, NY

#1 Apr 2, 2014
Out of everything mishandled in this case that is baffling and disturbing , the phone records from the land line and their mobile devices stand out. I'm wondering if we will ever gain access to those records.
candy

East Lansing, MI

#2 Apr 2, 2014
No. They would have been subpoenaed by the grand jury IF they were available, and clearly, they were not, as Chief Kolar said there were no phone records in this case. This is DAMNING against the Boulder DA's office who REFUSED to write search warrants authorizing them to be taken into evidence. IN FACT, the main person who was refusing the police search warrants, was TRIP DEMUTH, who went to work for JOHN RAMSEY'S LAWYER, Mike Bynum, after losing to Keenan for DA in 2000,,,,,,,,,,
Steve Eller

United States

#4 Apr 3, 2014
candy wrote:
No. They would have been subpoenaed by the grand jury IF they were available, and clearly, they were not, as Chief Kolar said there were no phone records in this case. This is DAMNING against the Boulder DA's office who REFUSED to write search warrants authorizing them to be taken into evidence. IN FACT, the main person who was refusing the police search warrants, was TRIP DEMUTH, who went to work for JOHN RAMSEY'S LAWYER, Mike Bynum, after losing to Keenan for DA in 2000,,,,,,,,,,
"Misplaced or lost" mobile phones, if there were any calls made after they got home, it would be game over for the Ramseys.
candy

East Lansing, MI

#5 Apr 5, 2014
On "another site" a pro Ram is trying to con the posters that this proves LE got the Rams phone records:
ST, p. 259 " "Release of Telephone Records" signed by both John Ramsey and Pete Hofstrom, It allowed us to obtain the Ramseys cellular and home telphone records between December 1 and December 27, 1996. We had to wait almost a year to see them, which had given the Ramseys lawyers MONTHS to go through the limited documents. The WOEFULLY INCOMPLETE permission slip did not give up Ramsey's company phones, calls made with a telephone card, or records about calls before or after December. We found nothing worthwhile."
Kolar said there were NO phone records, which mean phone records, NOT given over, INCOMPLETE, but obtained BY SUBPOEANA. The incomplete records prove NOTHING.
soontobecut

Brunswick, Australia

#6 Apr 6, 2014
Are incoming calls shown on cell phone records or is it just outgoing calls? Thanks in advance if anyone can give me the answer.

“If life gives you melons”

Since: Nov 06

You might be dyslexic

#7 Apr 6, 2014
soontobecut wrote:
Are incoming calls shown on cell phone records or is it just outgoing calls? Thanks in advance if anyone can give me the answer.
Yes
soontobecut

Brunswick, Australia

#8 Apr 6, 2014
Legal__Eagle wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes
Thanks LE, but do you mean 'yes it is only outgoing calls that are recorded' or do you mean 'yes both outgoing and incoming calls are recorded'? I'm not sure

“If life gives you melons”

Since: Nov 06

You might be dyslexic

#9 Apr 7, 2014
soontobecut wrote:
<quoted text>Thanks LE, but do you mean 'yes it is only outgoing calls that are recorded' or do you mean 'yes both outgoing and incoming calls are recorded'? I'm not sure
Your question was are incoming calls shown or 'just' outgoing?
Yes, incoming calls are shown as well as outgoing - at least on my bill.
soontobecut

Brunswick, Australia

#10 Apr 7, 2014
Legal__Eagle wrote:
<quoted text>
Your question was are incoming calls shown or 'just' outgoing?
Yes, incoming calls are shown as well as outgoing - at least on my bill.
Thanks again LE. Such a mystery all of this. It seems like records were obtained but possibly not until Beckner took over

Since: Aug 09

Round Rock, TX

#11 Sep 20, 2014
I believe in Kolar's book he says the Ramsey's attorneys had access to phone records and much was deleted. Now how THAT is possible I don't know. But all experts in crime investigation say that shows such as LA Law or NCIS etc are fabricated and give the impression that it is easy to solve a murder.

yet much is not available to detectives due to privacy laws and lawyers get things blocked by court order. This was never going to be solved for two reasons:
incompetence of Boulder PD
patsy did not do it, Burke, a minor child did it. On the DA knew the truth, conveyed to him by Team Ramsey, he could not go forward!! If your child did this and it was a horrible accident that patsy tried clumsily to cover up, would you go forward and haave Patsy arrested?????

No. the DA stonewalled and kept his silence. And now you know why it was never solved and never will be.
This is as bad As Roswell for the keeping of secrets.

I believe Patsy's sisters know the truth but that is as far as it goes.
CSummons

Huntington Beach, CA

#12 Sep 21, 2014
Rangette wrote:
I believe in Kolar's book he says the Ramsey's attorneys had access to phone records and much was deleted. Now how THAT is possible I don't know. But all experts in crime investigation say that shows such as LA Law or NCIS etc are fabricated and give the impression that it is easy to solve a murder.
yet much is not available to detectives due to privacy laws and lawyers get things blocked by court order. This was never going to be solved for two reasons:
incompetence of Boulder PD
patsy did not do it, Burke, a minor child did it. On the DA knew the truth, conveyed to him by Team Ramsey, he could not go forward!! If your child did this and it was a horrible accident that patsy tried clumsily to cover up, would you go forward and haave Patsy arrested?????
No. the DA stonewalled and kept his silence. And now you know why it was never solved and never will be.
This is as bad As Roswell for the keeping of secrets.
I believe Patsy's sisters know the truth but that is as far as it goes.
I expect that if Burke did it, he will do it again. We may hear of a future arrest if he did it. It is unlikely that a young boy would strangle his sister and not go on to do more violence.
Just Wondering

Oak Hill, WV

#13 Sep 22, 2014
CSummons wrote:
<quoted text>
I expect that if Burke did it, he will do it again. We may hear of a future arrest if he did it. It is unlikely that a young boy would strangle his sister and not go on to do more violence.
I think Burke's rage would have been triggered by his jealousy of his sister and the special attention she received. Remove the sister--remove the problem.

I can imagine Burke attempting to enjoy his bowl of pineapple and his tea while Jonbenet is teasing him and attempting to steal a bit of his pineapple. She manages to do just that, and that could have been all it took to unleash the pent up anger he had been dealing with all that day--or, perhaps, for the past six years of his life.

Since: Aug 09

Round Rock, TX

#14 Oct 29, 2014
Just Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
I think Burke's rage would have been triggered by his jealousy of his sister and the special attention she received. Remove the sister--remove the problem.
I can imagine Burke attempting to enjoy his bowl of pineapple and his tea while Jonbenet is teasing him and attempting to steal a bit of his pineapple. She manages to do just that, and that could have been all it took to unleash the pent up anger he had been dealing with all that day--or, perhaps, for the past six years of his life.
You have hit the nail on the head. Burke was well known in their friend/family for having a violent streak toward JB. When a young person is constantly in the shadows so the younger child can shine, jealousy will ensue. Burke had already hit Jb when she was much younger. He used a golf club. I recall that JR asked that his golf clubs be retrieved from the house by his sister in law. At a time like that and he wants his golf clubs in the middle of winter?

surely he knew that when the investigation was over all belongings would be released in time for him to play golf in the summer??? Ridiculous that no one ever thought about the prior hitting of Jb and the fact that there were golfclubs in the basement near where the kids liked to play.

It is so obvious to me what happened. There was simply no intruder. All clues and signs and behavior points directly to the family.
It was an accident and had Patsy reported it as such, no one would ever have blamed them or sent anyone to trial. I guess I will have to agree that something caused her to not want to reveal the truth even tho it was an accident.

Only she knows that answer and I assume her husband and son knew too. Did their friend the DA figure it out? Why else would he refuse to indict even tho the grand jury voted to indict?
someone please answer that or what in the world do we have grand juries for?
Steve Eller

Brooklyn, NY

#15 Oct 29, 2014
Rangette wrote:
I believe in Kolar's book he says the Ramsey's attorneys had access to phone records and much was deleted. Now how THAT is possible I don't know. But all experts in crime investigation say that shows such as LA Law or NCIS etc are fabricated and give the impression that it is easy to solve a murder.
yet much is not available to detectives due to privacy laws and lawyers get things blocked by court order. This was never going to be solved for two reasons:
incompetence of Boulder PD
patsy did not do it, Burke, a minor child did it. On the DA knew the truth, conveyed to him by Team Ramsey, he could not go forward!! If your child did this and it was a horrible accident that patsy tried clumsily to cover up, would you go forward and haave Patsy arrested?????
No. the DA stonewalled and kept his silence. And now you know why it was never solved and never will be.
This is as bad As Roswell for the keeping of secrets.
I believe Patsy's sisters know the truth but that is as far as it goes.
Boulder Police were not incompetent. They did the best they could. Usually police investigators are up against unscrupulous defense attorneys, not ruthless prosecutors determined to bury the case and obstruct the Police at every turn.
Just Wondering

Oak Hill, WV

#16 Oct 29, 2014
Rangette wrote:
<quoted text>
You have hit the nail on the head. Burke was well known in their friend/family for having a violent streak toward JB. When a young person is constantly in the shadows so the younger child can shine, jealousy will ensue. Burke had already hit Jb when she was much younger. He used a golf club. I recall that JR asked that his golf clubs be retrieved from the house by his sister in law. At a time like that and he wants his golf clubs in the middle of winter?
surely he knew that when the investigation was over all belongings would be released in time for him to play golf in the summer??? Ridiculous that no one ever thought about the prior hitting of Jb and the fact that there were golfclubs in the basement near where the kids liked to play.
It is so obvious to me what happened. There was simply no intruder. All clues and signs and behavior points directly to the family.
It was an accident and had Patsy reported it as such, no one would ever have blamed them or sent anyone to trial. I guess I will have to agree that something caused her to not want to reveal the truth even tho it was an accident.
Only she knows that answer and I assume her husband and son knew too. Did their friend the DA figure it out? Why else would he refuse to indict even tho the grand jury voted to indict?
someone please answer that or what in the world do we have grand juries for?
Remember, the coroner had determined that there was evidence of prior chronic sexual molestation. It is possible that Patsy may have suspected that Burke had at one time or the other "played doctor" with his sister. Maybe she suspected it was ongoing and thus she would not want that known to the public so the only alternative was to cover it up by insinuating a sexual assault by a kidnapper/pedophile that night.

Could be Hunter did not think he had enough evidence to convict one or the other of the Ramseys so he wanted to wait until he felt confident of the evidence on hand. However, it doesn't seem to me that he was too very interested in collecting that evidence to begin with. So much was done that tied the investigating officers' hands, in my opinion.

Since: Aug 09

Round Rock, TX

#17 Oct 30, 2014
Since when do DAs decide not to prosecute a murder based on the idea of bad publicity. Bad for who? Not the town surely. The town didn't do it. This was done solely by the family.

We don't know which of the two did it, but we know Patsy wrote the note. So either she covered for herself or Burke. I can't get to the point where I see it being the dad.

Sorry, my mind isn't going there. The minute it was known it happened I immediately thought of Patsy for two reasons.
The pullups being askew hanging out of the cabinet.
The red sweater being balled up in the corner and her sheets being wet.

Imagine you are packing late at night, you don't really want to go on the trip, you have a 6 year old who is not potty trained, and someone smears poop all over. Good grief, imagine Patsy's private life.
and then, JB starts crying and here we go again. Patsy was just trying to clean her up and she fell.

The only other possible reason for Patsy writing the ransom note is if she is protecting Burke.

Since: Aug 09

Round Rock, TX

#18 Oct 30, 2014
I can't blame Patsy for panicking, but her mind sure went to coverup quickly. Most parents immediately call 911 for an injury. So something made her hold back.
She suffered enough tho. Her face at the funeral told the story...
Rupert

Israel

#19 Oct 30, 2014
Rangette wrote:
I can't blame Patsy for panicking, but her mind sure went to coverup quickly. Most parents immediately call 911 for an injury. So something made her hold back.
She suffered enough tho. Her face at the funeral told the story...
My god you have a crazy imagination. Patsy did not kill her daughter. Don't you know that she was garroted first? There's petechia on he neck, her face, under her eyelids, in her heart muscles and lung. Read the autopsy and not the rags. Only an evil jealous person would do this; not a loving mother.
Just Wondering

Oak Hill, WV

#20 Oct 31, 2014
Experts disagree on the cause of death. One stated opinion, backed by forensic evidence, is that the head wound was administered first; she lingered in a state of unconsciousness for up to forty minutes; and was then garroted so that the death was actually due to strangulation.
No head wounds were noticeable and if her pulse was very weak, one could possibly assume that her neck was broken and that she was deceased. The garrote was then applied to cover up the murder that occurred from a fit of rage. The garrote was applied to suggest a pedophile was involved. Something had to explain the chronic sexual abuse.
Since Jonbenet had been struck in the face with a golf club by Burke when she was three, and since there was chronic sexual abuse, a cover up was necessary. Who would believe it was accidental? Consequently, a ransom note was left to deflect guilt from the family.

Since: Aug 09

Round Rock, TX

#21 Nov 2, 2014
yes, saying that she was garroted first was proven to be doubtful. The autopsy reported that she was still alive for awhile after the blow, it was not instaneous death. And everything done thereafter was a coverup.
no one is saying Patsy killed her daughter intentionally! No one, not even Alex Hunter believed that and neither did Steve Thomas. Thomas had it right, something awful occurred that was preventable. A fall, a push a shove, a golf club or a flashlight administered the head blow.

With an unconscious child who has little pulse, Patsy decided to pretend. How could she know for sure if JB was still alive?

When all other answers to a problem have been proved false, the simplest answer is the one.
An intruder was proven over and over to be nonsense! What intruder redresses the child in her favorite nightgown with her favorite toy next to her?
What intruder wanders the house for hours while the family sleeps and after the child has screamed loud enough for a neighbor to hear?( We know what time death occurred based on the ME).
What intruder does several practice notes at her leisure and then writes a ransom novel?
What kidnapper leaves the note, then leaves the dead child hidden in an area where no one knows about?
What kidnapper would know to leave the ransom note on the back staircase which Patsy came down each day? Hmmm?

Wouldn't the kidnapper leave with the child as soon as possible or in case of death get the heck outa there, not stage a play for the cops to find?

That would tell the cops that it was done by the family, either the 3 there or a family member who left before all heck broke loose.

Occam's Razor says it was an inside job. When all other scenarios have been disproven whatever remains is the answer. We just don't which one did the blow, but we know Patsy did the cover up as she never changed her clothes and was in full makeup when the cops arrived. John also had showered and was ready to greet the day. These people planned to fly out to Atlanta that day!!

All they had to do was not reveal where her body was, not get the phone call, and say they were leaving for GA and would be available if needed...lol.

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