“Sandy Stranger killed JonBenet”

Since: Jan 08

Not Boulder, Co.

#690 Sep 8, 2013
Burke is cleared.

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#691 Sep 8, 2013
BrotherMoon wrote:
Burke is cleared.
and?
Rupert

Canada

#692 Sep 8, 2013
Moonjack,

Thanks for your extensive reply. Your take on the head bash is interesting and you seem confident in your knowledge about the medical conditions. I got your point on saturation of the blood into the tissue and understand you are suggesting that is where some of the blood went. I'm no head surgeon and maybe that part of the head doesn't bleed so much. I was also aware that a doctor from Denver had stated that some brain injuries just don't bleed that much.

However, reciprocating the low blood loss was the extensive amount of petechia. You don't get that without the heart pumping hard to live. Also, you can see clearly in the photos where the ligature was forcefully yanked up, causing abrasions.

One thing I can't figure out is that triangular abrasion. I quote from the autopsy:

"A prominent dried abrasion was present on the lower left neck."

"The area of abrasion and petechial hemorrhage of the skin of the anterior neck includes on the lower left neck, just to the left of the lower midline, a roughly triangular, parchment-like rust colored abrasion which measures 1.5 inches in length with a maximum width of .75 inches. This roughly triangular shaped abrasion is obliquely oriented with the apex superior and lateral."

Meyer called it an abrasion, but to me that triangular patch is clearly a burst artery (perhaps even the jugular). I don't have the photo at hand, but another rope strangulation had the exact same triangular shape and rust coloration. I have not seen much talk about the "triangular abrasion" and can't imagine what it could have been caused by. I showed it to my wife who is a nurse and she said maybe an abrasion from a finger or thumb, but she also said subsurface blood forced to the surface would look like that. Maybe Meyer misinterpreted the burst artery for an "abrasion".

Any thoughts on the petechia and "triangular abrasion"?

While I can't see any Ramsey capable of doing the ghastly garrot staging, I admit a "fixer" with clean DNA would fit with that lost cel phone. One of Thomas big beefs with Hunter was the decline to warrant obtaining the cel phone records.

Rupe

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#693 Sep 8, 2013
Nobody can ever be legally cleared until another is charged and found guilty. This is an open case with no charges filed. There has been no testimony from Burke or John presented in Superior Court.

“Sandy Stranger killed JonBenet”

Since: Jan 08

Not Boulder, Co.

#694 Sep 8, 2013
The strangulation came first leaving the lower bruises on the neck. The neck ligature was later applied to raise the body along with the wrist ligature to raise the arms. The blow to the head came after the initial strangulation.

There was only slight internal bleeding and swelling and no external swelling indicating lack of heart action due to asphixiation from the intial strangulation.

Although the neck ligature certainly would have strangled that was not it's purpose, posing was.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#695 Sep 8, 2013
Rupert wrote:
Moonjack,
Thanks for your extensive reply. Your take on the head bash is interesting and you seem confident in your knowledge about the medical conditions. I got your point on saturation of the blood into the tissue and understand you are suggesting that is where some of the blood went. I'm no head surgeon and maybe that part of the head doesn't bleed so much. I was also aware that a doctor from Denver had stated that some brain injuries just don't bleed that much.

However, reciprocating the low blood loss was the extensive amount of petechia. You don't get that without the heart pumping hard to live. Also, you can see clearly in the photos where the ligature was forcefully yanked up, causing abrasions.
One thing I can't figure out is that triangular abrasion. I quote from the autopsy:
"A prominent dried abrasion was present on the lower left neck."
"The area of abrasion and petechial hemorrhage of the skin of the anterior neck includes on the lower left neck, just to the left of the lower midline, a roughly triangular, parchment-like rust colored abrasion which measures 1.5 inches in length with a maximum width of .75 inches. This roughly triangular shaped abrasion is obliquely oriented with the apex superior and lateral."
Meyer called it an abrasion, but to me that triangular patch is clearly a burst artery (perhaps even the jugular). I don't have the photo at hand, but another rope strangulation had the exact same triangular shape and rust coloration. I have not seen much talk about the "triangular abrasion" and can't imagine what it could have been caused by. I showed it to my wife who is a nurse and she said maybe an abrasion from a finger or thumb, but she also said subsurface blood forced to the surface would look like that. Maybe Meyer misinterpreted the burst artery for an "abrasion".
Any thoughts on the petechia and "triangular abrasion"?
While I can't see any Ramsey capable of doing the ghastly garrot staging, I admit a "fixer" with clean DNA would fit with that lost cel phone. One of Thomas big beefs with Hunter was the decline to warrant obtaining the cel phone records.
Rupe
The head and subsequently neck have more vascular network than the rest of the body. All head injuries can bleed profusely making many appear far worse than they are and vice versa. The brain is more dependent on oxygenated blood than any other organ. The two carotid arteries support the immense need. That is also why the neck appears to injured even thought she was already almost dead. That is also why petechia appeared, the heart did not need to be pumping at full force, just pumping, and it was.

As for the triangular abrasion, I'd need to see what sort of necklace and jewelry she wore at the White's to make a thorough determination.

“Sandy Stranger killed JonBenet”

Since: Jan 08

Not Boulder, Co.

#697 Sep 8, 2013
There was very little internal bleeding pinkerpooper and no external swelling. That means a strangulation came first.
candy

East Lansing, MI

#698 Sep 8, 2013
BrotherMoon wrote:
Burke is cleared.
Uh, says who? Garnett has NEVER, EVER said that, and his opinion is the only one that matters.
candy

East Lansing, MI

#699 Sep 8, 2013
I'd love to see that creepy picture of Burke, grinning ear to ear, two days after his sister was brutally murdered, next to the devastated pictures of his parents. I agree with Kolar about how alarming that is.

“Sandy Stranger killed JonBenet”

Since: Jan 08

Not Boulder, Co.

#700 Sep 8, 2013
Kolar is a goofball and Burke is cleared vy the original investigators and Hunter.
candy

East Lansing, MI

#701 Sep 8, 2013
BrotherMoon wrote:
Kolar is a goofball and Burke is cleared vy the original investigators and Hunter.
LOL! Lin Wood wrote the affidavit clearing Burke that Hunter signed. It means nothing.

“If life gives you melons”

Since: Nov 06

You might be dyslexic

#702 Sep 8, 2013
BrotherMoon wrote:
Kolar is a goofball and Burke is cleared vy the original investigators and Hunter.
Burke was too young to be charged.

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#703 Sep 9, 2013
moonjack wrote:
Nobody can ever be legally cleared until another is charged and found guilty. This is an open case with no charges filed. There has been no testimony from Burke or John presented in Superior Court.
This sums it all up MJ; thanks!

As once was stated: Anyone can be UNcleared until this case is solved.

“Sandy Stranger killed JonBenet”

Since: Jan 08

Not Boulder, Co.

#704 Sep 9, 2013
Please provide the evidence Burke was involved.

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#705 Sep 9, 2013
Rupert wrote:
One thing I can't figure out is that triangular abrasion. I quote from the autopsy:
"A prominent dried abrasion was present on the lower left neck."
"The area of abrasion and petechial hemorrhage of the skin of the anterior neck includes on the lower left neck, just to the left of the lower midline, a roughly triangular, parchment-like rust colored abrasion which measures 1.5 inches in length with a maximum width of .75 inches. This roughly triangular shaped abrasion is obliquely oriented with the apex superior and lateral."
Meyer called it an abrasion, but to me that triangular patch is clearly a burst artery (perhaps even the jugular). I don't have the photo at hand, but another rope strangulation had the exact same triangular shape and rust coloration. I have not seen much talk about the "triangular abrasion" and can't imagine what it could have been caused by. I showed it to my wife who is a nurse and she said maybe an abrasion from a finger or thumb, but she also said subsurface blood forced to the surface would look like that. Maybe Meyer misinterpreted the burst artery for an "abrasion".
Any thoughts on the petechia and "triangular abrasion"?
The reddish triangular area shown in the autopsy photos and described in the autopsy report is caused by the rupture of a blood vessel (or a number of small capillaries) in the area of the base of the "carotid triangle". As these vessels bled outward from the center of the traumatized area along the subcutaneous layer, the blood would be slightly restricted within the carotid triangle due to the defining musculature, and eventually work its way upward as it begins to trail off toward the apex of the triangle and end at where the ligature furrow is. The "parchment-like" appearance is from the accumulated blood just under the surface of the skin. This kind of mark is sometimes seen in other pictures of people who died from ligature strangulation.
quitemad

Winnipeg, Canada

#706 Sep 9, 2013
moonjack wrote:
There are 2 types, one is voluntary with an emotional component and the other is due to physical reasons or limitations with a different treatment modality and outcome.
I've never known a single child to suffer this rare disease yet the IDIs families are full of them.
I agree, Moonjack, and I don't doubt for a minute that someone in the Ramsay family was the killer. I have always believed it to be Burke. I however believe it is because he was jealous of JonBenet and all the attention she received and he just snapped one day. As the mother of someone with encopresis, I had just wanted to set the record straight on some of the causes of it. But I am a RDI believer.

“Sandy Stranger killed JonBenet”

Since: Jan 08

Not Boulder, Co.

#707 Sep 9, 2013
Burke was cleared.

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#708 Sep 10, 2013
quitemad wrote:
<quoted text>I agree, Moonjack, and I don't doubt for a minute that someone in the Ramsay family was the killer. I have always believed it to be Burke. I however believe it is because he was jealous of JonBenet and all the attention she received and he just snapped one day. As the mother of someone with encopresis, I had just wanted to set the record straight on some of the causes of it. But I am a RDI believer.
I too, agree with MJ and have no doubt that one of the Ramseys committed this crime and it was staged and covered up.

That said, I am a BDI and the reasons you have provided may be true, but I don't believe that any of those reasons led to any sort of planned murder, etc. I do believe that those reasons you listed are valid and there was no real "kinship" for lack of a better word between JBR and her brother Burke.

I think Burke did resent her and was neglected in all the ways that count in favor of the fussing over JBR and while he was probably NOT attached to his sister and found her to be a nuisance and the prevention of his own needs, I don't think he planned anything and the death of JBR was the result of anger turned deadly but NOT planned or intentional. I think the rest is just cover up by the parents to protect him.

There are many details that we don't know but I do believe BDI in a fit of rage for any variety of reasons that a sister would anger a brother, but I don't think it was planned or intended to actually kill her.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#709 Sep 10, 2013
gotgum wrote:
The reddish triangular area shown in the autopsy photos and described in the autopsy report is caused by the rupture of a blood vessel (or a number of small capillaries) in the area of the base of the "carotid triangle". As these vessels bled outward from the center of the traumatized area along the subcutaneous layer, the blood would be slightly restricted within the carotid triangle due to the defining musculature, and eventually work its way upward as it begins to trail off toward the apex of the triangle and end at where the ligature furrow is. The "parchment-like" appearance is from the accumulated blood just under the surface of the skin. This kind of mark is sometimes seen in other pictures of people who died from ligature strangulation.
Thank you for the in depth professional answer. It makes more sense than any other suggestion put forth so far - from a ring Patsy was wearing to a necklace caught in the garotte.
quitemad

Winnipeg, Canada

#710 Sep 10, 2013
Capricorn wrote:
<quoted text>
I too, agree with MJ and have no doubt that one of the Ramseys committed this crime and it was staged and covered up.
That said, I am a BDI and the reasons you have provided may be true, but I don't believe that any of those reasons led to any sort of planned murder, etc. I do believe that those reasons you listed are valid and there was no real "kinship" for lack of a better word between JBR and her brother Burke.
I think Burke did resent her and was neglected in all the ways that count in favor of the fussing over JBR and while he was probably NOT attached to his sister and found her to be a nuisance and the prevention of his own needs, I don't think he planned anything and the death of JBR was the result of anger turned deadly but NOT planned or intentional. I think the rest is just cover up by the parents to protect him.
There are many details that we don't know but I do believe BDI in a fit of rage for any variety of reasons that a sister would anger a brother, but I don't think it was planned or intended to actually kill her.
I agree with what you said. I believe that this is how it went down. It was night, after the party, jonbenet had wet the bed again and went to get Burke or get into Burke's bed with him (which I understand was common) and, it being Christmas night and them being kids, they couldn't sleep because they were excited about their new toys, etc. They go down to the basement to play with their new toys and, Burke being jealous of JonBenet for all kinds of reasons (better gifts, more attention, etc.), gets angry at JB and in a fit of rage picked up a golf club and hit JonBenet. I don't believe he meant to kill her - kids that age don't usually understand the consequences of their actions - but once he started hitting, he couldn't stop because he was in a blind rage. After the rage dissipates, Burke sees what he has done and begins to scream for Patsy, who is still in her clothes from the party. She comes running down to basement and sees what happened. She thinks that JonBenet cannot be saved so she decides that rather than let JonBenet suffer a slow death, she decides to "finish her off", and in an attempt to cover for Burke, her last remaining child, she suddenly remembers the book she had just finished reading that talked about a garrotte killing, so she decided to kill JB with the garrotte in hopes of making it look like an intruder did it. Patsy was a fairly large woman, so she could easily have used the garrotte. Then, because it would make no sense for an intruder to just come in and kill a little girl for no reason, she had to make it look like a pedophile had done it, so she digitally penetrated JB and then did all the "loving" things - i.e. drew the heart on JB's hand, etc. She then woke up John and told him what had happened. John, also wanting to save his son and his precious reputation, also remembering the book, etc. dictated the ransom note to Patsy using a lot of the phrases from the book. The rest is history. Just my opinion - no evidence of this at all.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

JonBenet Ramsey Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Jonbenet Ramsey murderer 44 min Just Wondering 503
Chief Kolar's AMA on Reddit 54 min Fr_Brown 116
Snaps on Patsy's jacket? 15 hr Blackstone Again 4
ICU2 's Child Trafficking Mon ICU2 127
Media misrepresenting Chief Mark Beckner's remarks Mon Legal__Eagle 128
Pageants not about beauty Mon ICU2 1
I Know You Are Lying by Mark McClish Mon Just Wondering 2
More from around the web