Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#172 Dec 6, 2013
An ASP is an expandable baton that most police officers carry although anyone can probably purchase one. I'm not saying she was hit with one I'm just saying the dimensions are comparable.
gotgum wrote:
<quoted text>From the AR:
"At the superior extension of the is area of hemorrhage is a linear to comminuted skull fracture which extends from the right occipital to posteroparietal area forward tot he right frontal area across the parietal skull. In the posteroparietal area of this fracture is a roughly rectangular shaped displaced fragment of skull measuring one and three-quarters by one-half inch."
From medilexicon(dot)com:
"comminuted skull fracture" Definitions:
1. a fracture of the skull with fragmentation of bone.
Jimmy, what is an ASP? I don't know what that is. I too think the bat is too wide to be the weapon used, and a golf club is too likely to have caused a noticeable abrasion/laceration on the scalp. I think the weapon was cylindrical, but less than 1" in diameter.

“WAX ON”

Since: Jul 10

WAX OFF

#173 Dec 6, 2013
Hey CC,

Your post got me thinking, so I did some reading and here is what I found regarding boxing:

First we need to clear up the difference between force and pressure. Force is what causes something to accelerate, e.g., a fighter's head in the direction of a thrown punch. In the U.S. force is normally measured in pounds. Pressure is force per unit of contact area, commonly expressed in pounds per square inch (psi). When researchers study punching ability they usually focus on force rather than pressure, since the pressure varies as the contact area expands on impact.
With that in mind, let's look at the research:
-- A study of seven Olympic boxers in weight classes ranging from flyweight to super heavyweight showed a range of 447 to 1,066 pounds of peak punching force. Energy transferred from punch to target varied widely depending on how heavy the boxers' hands and gloves were, how fast they punched, and how rigidly they held their wrists. The three flyweights, interestingly, delivered more oomph than all but the two super heavyweights.
-- A study of 70 boxers found elite-level fighters could punch with an average of 776 pounds of force. Another study of 23 boxers showed elite fighters were able to punch more than twice as hard as novices, the hardest hitter generating almost 1,300 pounds of force.
-- An oft-cited 1985 study of Frank Bruno, who'd go on to be WBC heavyweight champ, showed he could punch with a force of 920 pounds in the lab. Researchers extrapolated that to a real-life blow of 1,420 pounds, enough to accelerate his opponent's head at a rate of 53 g -- that is, 53 times the force of gravity.
http://tinyurl.com/nvo9a5e
Bakatari wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi Dr S,
If you hit a person on the head, squarely with the face of a wood, you might not get a laceration. However, if you hit the person anywhere off squarely, you have the edge of the face with the rest of the club, which is "sharp" enough with the clubhead speed. You MIGHT avoid getting a laceration if you hit the person with the sold of the club, but I doubt that you will. If you use an iron, there is no question that it would leave a laceration.
I saw a kid get hit on the forehead with a wood (accidentally) and he got a pretty good cut. Remember, boxers use gloves that are much softer than a golf club, yet they create cuts with no sharp edges, and far less velocity.
CC
The Truth Hurts

Farmington, MI

#174 Dec 6, 2013
Delta88 wrote:
So to avoid Burke getting therapy, which clearly he'd need if it were BDI, the adut Rs were willing to risk indictment on serious criminal charges, maybe even murder.
No, sorry, doesn't make sense. The problem with BDI is that it always has JR/PR covering for Burke in a way that makes everything just as bad or worse than if they just let Burke have some residential therapy.
So they loose custody of BR for a few months. Possibly even a year or two. How does that stack up to loosing custody for 5 years 20 years, life?
It's true, BR going to the psych ward for a while doesn't help the family name. But then, PR and JR going to prison doesn't exactly help much either.
BDI is ridiculous if it's actually looked at. We don't want to loose Burke, and to make sure we don't we'll go to prison, yeah, that's the ticket. We don't want the family name tarnished, so to avoid that we'll let the world think we killed our daughter, yeah, that will work.
I do agree they'd have to anticipate a skull x-ray at autopsy. Another reason to doubt they were trying to divert attention from the head wound.
I believe that the Ramseys were so arrogant that not for one second did they believe they would be suspects. All you need to do is read their very own words to prove it. So much for taking a chance on going to prison and losing Burke.

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The Truth Hurts

Farmington, MI

#175 Dec 6, 2013
Bakatari wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi LE,
I read the autopsy report. To me, it doesn't prove prior sexual abuse at all. "Deterioration" does NOT mean any entry of an object, and the the vaginal opening was penetrated by something as small as a pencil.
One thing for sure, is JBR was NOT violated by a penis even from a child.
IF it can be proven that JBR was previously sexually molested, the case would be quite clear, that a family member committed the murder, but we still have IDIs. There might be reporters who will stick their necks out and say that JBR was "raped", but I don't thing you will find ANY medical doctor who will say that JBR was previously sexually abused before the night of her murder.
I think the "sexual abuse" was a part of the staging.
CC
Cyril Wecht said she was.

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Since: Feb 12

San Diego, CA

#176 Dec 6, 2013
DrSeussMd wrote:
Hey CC,
Your post got me thinking, so I did some reading and here is what I found regarding boxing:
First we need to clear up the difference between force and pressure. Force is what causes something to accelerate, e.g., a fighter's head in the direction of a thrown punch. In the U.S. force is normally measured in pounds. Pressure is force per unit of contact area, commonly expressed in pounds per square inch (psi). When researchers study punching ability they usually focus on force rather than pressure, since the pressure varies as the contact area expands on impact.
With that in mind, let's look at the research:
-- A study of seven Olympic boxers in weight classes ranging from flyweight to super heavyweight showed a range of 447 to 1,066 pounds of peak punching force. Energy transferred from punch to target varied widely depending on how heavy the boxers' hands and gloves were, how fast they punched, and how rigidly they held their wrists. The three flyweights, interestingly, delivered more oomph than all but the two super heavyweights.
-- A study of 70 boxers found elite-level fighters could punch with an average of 776 pounds of force. Another study of 23 boxers showed elite fighters were able to punch more than twice as hard as novices, the hardest hitter generating almost 1,300 pounds of force.
-- An oft-cited 1985 study of Frank Bruno, who'd go on to be WBC heavyweight champ, showed he could punch with a force of 920 pounds in the lab. Researchers extrapolated that to a real-life blow of 1,420 pounds, enough to accelerate his opponent's head at a rate of 53 g -- that is, 53 times the force of gravity.
http://tinyurl.com/nvo9a5e
<quoted text>
Hi Dr S,
I boxed as an amateur in the flyweight division at 112 pounds when I was young. Let me tell you, that the lighter boxers don't have anywhere near the knockout power as the heavier boxers. Being a golfer, I also will tell you, that a boxer's punch is similar to a golfer's swing in a sense. The boxer who has the technique in punching may not be muscle bound but can hit really hard, just as the golfer with his swing, may not be muscle bound, but can be a long hitter with a well coordinated swing.

When it comes to the JBR case, I really doubt that the skull fracture was caused by a golf club, because there is no real laceration at the point of impact, and the wound does not appear to have the characteristics of a golf club head of any kind.
CC
JustAskin

Carlisle, PA

#177 Dec 6, 2013
What all did BR get for Xmas? Did he get golf clubs?
Aqam

United States

#178 Dec 6, 2013
There is another possible scenarios than"Ramseys Did It" or "Intruder Did It".
Someone known to the family might have been let in; it was said that a ground floor side door was found unlocked the next morning.
JonBenet and perhaps Burke may have been used by a ritual child abuse organization, with parental approval.
Such a network exists in the Boulder area.
Check out:
1 - The JonBenet Ramsey Case: Emerging Child Sex-Ring Allegations, Political Connections and a Suspect
By Alex Constantine &#65533; 2000
Linda Minor Sun, 23 Apr 2000
http://www.newsmakingnews.com/

2 -'Nothing is what it seems' in Ramsey case
http://www.evanravitz.com/ramsey/guest.htm

Ritual child abuse exists across the US and involves people high up in the political and financial ruling elite, similar in some ways to Skull & Bones which is used to enforce secrecy in this ruling elite.
Pedophilia is not a proper description; rather it is a tool to protect the immorality and criminal violations by that elite.
It goes along with Project Monarch, favored by the intelligence services as a method for creating multiple personalities in an individual, who can then be used as a "Manchurian candidate" or a sex slave.

JonBenet reported being in a dark places with candles and people wearing robes. Were they responsible for the sexual penetration found in the autopsy?
She also reported that "Santa" told her he'd visit her after Xmas. Did "he" that night?
Here are 2 alternative scenarios:
* Did Burke witness the abuse first hand, or second hand from JonBenet, and was he imitating it ("acting out") and accidentally killed her while trying to stop her screams?
* Or did Patsy let "Santa", a network member, into the house that night for a "Christmas" ritual, who inadvertently killed her in a similar manner?

Was that why this this wealthy ruling elite family used their wealth and influence to obstruct the case, causing the state to have to spend 2 million dollars on it, without a conviction?

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#180 Dec 9, 2013
realTopaz wrote:
<quoted text>
Huh? What are you saying exactly? I have said forever that the 'fresh' assault was to cover previous assault and that is why they needed to stage a kidnapping..for the Ramseys to say someone else came in and molested her. That said, if BR was molesting her, how did the parents know that in order to reoffend to cover for previous??? How could they possibly know there was damage that needed to be covered?
I don't think they did! I don't think BR EVER sexually assaulted his sister. I believe the person who constructed that 'garotte' was her sexual assualter and for some reason, I don't think that was her mama.
Hi RT,

Sorry it took so long for me to answer

I think you misunderstood what I was saying about Burke and the parents. I think they discovered Burke's "doings" earlier on, but not earlier on that night, earlier on that year or just earlier on than the night of the crime.

I have no idea how it may have come out other than what I wrote in my earlier post about either Patsy "catching" them or JBR telling Patsy herself, or it coming out during one of her "urinary" medical issues to Patsy, etc. I'm speculating of course but that is my theory. I believe the parents knew that this kind of experimenting had happened and although they may have thought the correction was done, they still knew that there may have been damage, hence ;) the coverup with the fresh assault

I do not believe that they knew WHAT damage was done or to what extent and therefore did whatever they could, hoping to cover it. I'm sure they never had her fully examined internally to check but I am sure that Dr. Beuf had some knowledge of this as well and never did an exam

I have a rough time believing John was a pedophile for a variety of reasons and I also believe the molester was not anyone other than a Ramsey and one of the three, and my conclusion is that it was Burke. I have no way of knowing whether this is all correct or not but it makes the most sense to me when putting the whole picture together.

I do NOT believe Patsy would have defended, covered for, or stayed with John had he been molesting JBR. I think the Ramseys knew about the molesting no matter who it was and I don't think Patsy would have kept John around if it were him

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#181 Dec 9, 2013
The Truth Hurts wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe that the Ramseys were so arrogant that not for one second did they believe they would be suspects. All you need to do is read their very own words to prove it. So much for taking a chance on going to prison and losing Burke.
I agree totally with this.

The Ramseys, as I see this, had all the legal advice, etc. they needed before calling 911 and were probably reassured every second that they would not be going to jail for this and they would go on their merry way early on and WITH their son.

Patsy's own words in DOI claim that they had no idea and were appalled that they FOUND OUT they were suspects AFTER they were in Atlanta.

Their stories changed so frequently, and were so contradictory all the way around and continually changing.

Innocent people have the same story from MINUTE ONE and have no need for all the drama

Innocent people don't threaten to take Burke out of the country if the police forced the issue about questioning him!!!! People tend to forget how determined they were to keep Burke away from the very people who would have protected him should his life be in danger too with a crazed child killer on the loose AND one who hated John.

I also have always said that IF this was to punish JOHN RAMSEY, they would not have chosen JBR. OR..they would have killed his whole family

“WAX ON”

Since: Jul 10

WAX OFF

#183 Dec 9, 2013
Do you lay awake at night making stuff up?

This never happened.
Aqam wrote:
JonBenet reported being in a dark places with candles and people wearing robes.

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#185 Dec 11, 2013
DrSeussMd wrote:
Do you lay awake at night making stuff up?
This never happened.
<quoted text>
LOL,

No, that never happened much like many of the other reported stories

Funny how you were the only one to correct that

Any jello is good jello when defending the Ramseys I guess

“If life gives you melons”

Since: Nov 06

You might be dyslexic

#186 Dec 12, 2013
Capricorn wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL,
No, that never happened much like many of the other reported stories
Funny how you were the only one to correct that
Any jello is good jello when defending the Ramseys I guess
Hi Cappy, how the heck are ya?

Looks like it is going to be a 'day', wish I could stick around for it, LMAO. With 'Redpill' back pedaling Mr. Cruel, AK deciding there was no foreign faction (duh!), and ITFM deciding 17 years later that the word 'faction' is incorrect you better remain seated and buckled in, and keep your arms inside until the ride comes to a complete stop. Ciao

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#187 Dec 12, 2013
Legal__Eagle wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi Cappy, how the heck are ya?
Looks like it is going to be a 'day', wish I could stick around for it, LMAO. With 'Redpill' back pedaling Mr. Cruel, AK deciding there was no foreign faction (duh!), and ITFM deciding 17 years later that the word 'faction' is incorrect you better remain seated and buckled in, and keep your arms inside until the ride comes to a complete stop. Ciao
Hi there LE,

I'm fine thanks and thanks for the warnings :)

You have to take the bad with the good but the fact that there was no foreign faction being an agreement among everyone is a good thing.

Of course I won't swear that EVERYONE agrees that there was no foreign faction, but at this point, I don't know anyone who still believes that, but I'm sure there is someone.

“If life gives you melons”

Since: Nov 06

You might be dyslexic

#188 Dec 12, 2013
Capricorn wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi there LE,
I'm fine thanks and thanks for the warnings :)
You have to take the bad with the good but the fact that there was no foreign faction being an agreement among everyone is a good thing.
Of course I won't swear that EVERYONE agrees that there was no foreign faction, but at this point, I don't know anyone who still believes that, but I'm sure there is someone.
Well no one fessed up today that they didn't agree so that is hopeful.
Glad you are well, have a great holiday season.
icedtea4me

Saint Louis, MO

#189 Dec 12, 2013
Legal__Eagle wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi Cappy, how the heck are ya?
Looks like it is going to be a 'day', wish I could stick around for it, LMAO. With 'Redpill' back pedaling Mr. Cruel, AK deciding there was no foreign faction (duh!), and ITFM deciding 17 years later that the word 'faction' is incorrect you better remain seated and buckled in, and keep your arms inside until the ride comes to a complete stop. Ciao
17 years later? Wrong. I decided that the word "faction" could also be "factim" years ago when I read A Mother Gone Bad: The Hidden Confession of JonBenet's Killer by Dr. Andrew G. Hodges.

“WAX ON”

Since: Jul 10

WAX OFF

#190 Dec 13, 2013
IMO, the comments Hodges made are pretty whacked, contrived, and really out there, but we each have our own rabbit hole through which to follow our theory, so who is to say if this is right or wrong? It sparsely garnered any following in a court of public opinion and I seriously doubt it would in a court of law. It is too subjective. I think you are giving PR far more credit than she deserves by believing what Hodges has to say.

You can look at some of the threads just on this board alone for more contrived thinking – the Smiley faced Killer thread for one. Here is an example:

“Just as with Michigan victim SACH and OCCK victim ROBINson, victim in VIRGIN ISLANDS is iSAAC ROBINs.
Michigan OCCK victims were missing CROSS & Saint CHRISTOPHER MEDAL. Missing Smiley Face victim missing in SACKVILLE. His name is CHRISTOPHER METALlic and went missing 11-25 on Sunday. Saint CHRISTOPHER MEDAL missing from OCCK victim and from Smiley Face victims. compare victims TINSley, victim CoOPER, HALL WILSON in IRONDOQUIST & Abel Bolanos in Wilson Hall, victim lieutenant RUST, Victim in IRON mountain Michigan had Smiley Face on neck and was dumped in DUNBAR because the false ZODIAC killer had called the Jim DUNBAR show.

Scientifically, it is like trying to force a square peg in a round hole. In more general or laymen terms, it is a jumbled mess, and not a scientific fact.
icedtea4me wrote:
<quoted text>
17 years later? Wrong. I decided that the word "faction" could also be "factim" years ago when I read A Mother Gone Bad: The Hidden Confession of JonBenet's Killer by Dr. Andrew G. Hodges.

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#192 Dec 16, 2013
DrSeussMd wrote:
IMO, the comments Hodges made are pretty whacked, contrived, and really out there, but we each have our own rabbit hole through which to follow our theory, so who is to say if this is right or wrong? It sparsely garnered any following in a court of public opinion and I seriously doubt it would in a court of law. It is too subjective. I think you are giving PR far more credit than she deserves by believing what Hodges has to say.
You can look at some of the threads just on this board alone for more contrived thinking – the Smiley faced Killer thread for one. Here is an example:
“Just as with Michigan victim SACH and OCCK victim ROBINson, victim in VIRGIN ISLANDS is iSAAC ROBINs.
Michigan OCCK victims were missing CROSS & Saint CHRISTOPHER MEDAL. Missing Smiley Face victim missing in SACKVILLE. His name is CHRISTOPHER METALlic and went missing 11-25 on Sunday. Saint CHRISTOPHER MEDAL missing from OCCK victim and from Smiley Face victims. compare victims TINSley, victim CoOPER, HALL WILSON in IRONDOQUIST & Abel Bolanos in Wilson Hall, victim lieutenant RUST, Victim in IRON mountain Michigan had Smiley Face on neck and was dumped in DUNBAR because the false ZODIAC killer had called the Jim DUNBAR show.
Scientifically, it is like trying to force a square peg in a round hole. In more general or laymen terms, it is a jumbled mess, and not a scientific fact.
<quoted text>
I lost faith and respect for Hodge when he wrote that the author of the note had cancer

I have known graphologists and know a little about it and that raised a big red flag for me. Graphologists can in fact detect illness in a handwriting and can even detect minor illnesses from major illnesses with handwriting and can even in some cases tell what part of the body is ailing based on the letters, BUT....I have never ever seen a professional actually attempt to pinpoint an exact illness such as cancer, etc.

They can say someone has a serious illness, is very sick and can use cancer as an example, but they do not diagnose actual disease. I have seen experts say that something is wrong with a person's leg/stomach area/head/etc., but have never known a graphologist to be able to tell what the illness is and to state a specific illness negates their credibility. They are handwriting analysts and not psychics and do not have x ray vision

Of course your above example magnifies the point in being able to make any scenario fit if you have the time to do the silly crap above

I say this as a person who will never believe that anyone other than Patsy wrote that note but to get to that conclusion did not include Hodges' analysis
icedtea4me

Saint Louis, MO

#193 Dec 16, 2013
Dr. Hodges is not a graphologist. He's a psychiatrist who analyzed not only the three page note, but Patsy's pre and post murder communications as well.

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#194 Dec 17, 2013
icedtea4me wrote:
Dr. Hodges is not a graphologist. He's a psychiatrist who analyzed not only the three page note, but Patsy's pre and post murder communications as well.
Yes I know but his analysis is still beyond lack of professional analysis no matter what his personal credentials were.

He went beyond the scope of what he should have done and certainly how he wrote it up

He was profiteering and that was obvious. Despite my agreement with who wrote the note, his analysis was inane at best from a professional standpoint IMO

“WAX ON”

Since: Jul 10

WAX OFF

#195 Dec 18, 2013
I agree. People who are asked to perform certain functions from skills in their wheelhouse, should do that and nothing more - when they keep going further and further away from their expertise, they rapidly lose credibility.
Capricorn wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes I know but his analysis is still beyond lack of professional analysis no matter what his personal credentials were.
He went beyond the scope of what he should have done and certainly how he wrote it up
He was profiteering and that was obvious. Despite my agreement with who wrote the note, his analysis was inane at best from a professional standpoint IMO

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