Most likely scenario
The Truth Hurts

United States

#21 Jan 14, 2013
Archimage wrote:
<quoted text>
One last thing I know the official writing of the letter says fat cats but look at the original poorly written not it looks more like Fat Ones than Cats unless I am reading the wrong letter. other than that How do you account for the Split in the ransom money?
Why do I have to account for it? What "split?"

It's "Fat Cats." There has never been a dispute over that.

“If life gives you melons”

Since: Nov 06

You might be dyslexic

#22 Jan 14, 2013
The Truth Hurts wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do I have to account for it? What "split?"
It's "Fat Cats." There has never been a dispute over that.
I think he is referring to the money denomination, some in 100s and some in 20s, which to me is pretty cliche and probably in 90% of movies and novels.

You are correct, it was Fat Cats, certainly not Fat Ones, and never disputed by anyone including the Ramseys.
Steve Eller

United States

#23 Jan 15, 2013
Archimage wrote:
To anyone interested in my reasoning for this let me know and I will gladly post them.
The problem with proferring an 'informed' perspective from a basis of ignorance and a comprehensive unfamiliarity with the case is the you sound far more sciolistic than you probably are. If you can not understand the importance to the Ramseys of refuting certain facts such as JonBenet eating pineapple before her death, in acquainting yourself with this case you basically scanned a timeline of the case and started pontificating. Either that or you would be hard pressed to engage anyone constructively on most matters due to a gormless wit.

“If life gives you melons”

Since: Nov 06

You might be dyslexic

#24 Jan 15, 2013
Steve Eller wrote:
<quoted text>
The problem with proferring an 'informed' perspective from a basis of ignorance and a comprehensive unfamiliarity with the case is the you sound far more sciolistic than you probably are. If you can not understand the importance to the Ramseys of refuting certain facts such as JonBenet eating pineapple before her death, in acquainting yourself with this case you basically scanned a timeline of the case and started pontificating. Either that or you would be hard pressed to engage anyone constructively on most matters due to a gormless wit.
Words cannot express :)
Steve Eller

United States

#25 Jan 15, 2013
Thank you!
Archimage

Houston, TX

#26 Jan 15, 2013
The Truth Hurts wrote:
<quoted text>
They lied about the pineapple because either they didn't know she ate it (which I find unlikely since JB could not have gotten it out on her own) or they forgot about it when they told the police that she was asleep when she got home. IMO You can't eat pineapple (or anything else) in your sleep, you know. ;)
There is simply no way anyone would sit around the Ramseys home with the family sleeping nearby and feed the child anything. How does that make any kind of sense at all?
Would I lie about it in that situation? Well, yes. If I was involved with the murder of my child and it was brought to my attention that the kid I said was sleeping from the moment I got home and that was sleeping the last time I'd seen her had eaten something before her death that indicates I was lying, of course I would. Wouldn't you?
Isn't that the point though? How does Pineapple incriminate them? I mean they could have forgotten about and just said latter "Oh right we gave her that before she went to sleep" not blame it on an intruder its such an odd thing to lie about its actually possible they were telling the truth just because its so unlikely. And honestly no I would not lie about bloody pineapple if I had my daughters murder to cover up. Its such a small thing wouldn't you just admit to it? its not like its crucial evidence the cops aren't going to say aw ha! the parents fed her pineapple its a cover up. I mean come on its a midnight snack.
Archimage

Houston, TX

#27 Jan 15, 2013
Legal__Eagle wrote:
<quoted text>
I think he is referring to the money denomination, some in 100s and some in 20s, which to me is pretty cliche and probably in 90% of movies and novels.
You are correct, it was Fat Cats, certainly not Fat Ones, and never disputed by anyone including the Ramseys.
actually the most common movies ask for money in unmarked dollar bills of one bill type. If they were writing the ransom note and looking through movie trivia for ransom note inspiration for the instructions why would they waste time on a money denomination. And just to say that note looks like it was written by an eight year old.
Archimage

Houston, TX

#28 Jan 15, 2013
Steve Eller wrote:
<quoted text>
The problem with proferring an 'informed' perspective from a basis of ignorance and a comprehensive unfamiliarity with the case is the you sound far more sciolistic than you probably are. If you can not understand the importance to the Ramseys of refuting certain facts such as JonBenet eating pineapple before her death, in acquainting yourself with this case you basically scanned a timeline of the case and started pontificating. Either that or you would be hard pressed to engage anyone constructively on most matters due to a gormless wit.
congratulations you have managed to use big words to sound clever without presenting any other argument than I can't believe your so stupid you can't see the obvious. The girl eating pineapple is not going to point to them being guilty unless its proven she ate it exactly when the bloody note is being written by the family so why bother? Not to mention its so insignificant it's more likely they would have forgotten about and just admitted to feeding her pineapple instead of denying it.
Oh and by the by i know the evidence stacked against the family i never said it was impossible that they did it I was just saying some things are odd and its not infeasible that she was killed by an outside party. Oh and unless you were a detective on the case you are no more "informed" than the rest of us so don't try to act superior by insulting other opinions because you believe there wrong.
Archimage

Houston, TX

#29 Jan 15, 2013
The Truth Hurts wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do I have to account for it? What "split?"
It's "Fat Cats." There has never been a dispute over that.
Your focusing on the fat cats ? I just brought that up to emphasize my point that the note looks like it was written by an eight year old that's why I mentioned it last. Why do people focus on the trivial things.

Since: Sep 11

Alberton, South Africa

#30 Jan 16, 2013
Archimage wrote:
<quoted text>
Isn't that the point though? How does Pineapple incriminate them? I mean they could have forgotten about and just said latter "Oh right we gave her that before she went to sleep" not blame it on an intruder its such an odd thing to lie about its actually possible they were telling the truth just because its so unlikely. And honestly no I would not lie about bloody pineapple if I had my daughters murder to cover up. Its such a small thing wouldn't you just admit to it? its not like its crucial evidence the cops aren't going to say aw ha! the parents fed her pineapple its a cover up. I mean come on its a midnight snack.
The Ramseys steadfastly maintained, Archimage, that JonBenet fell asleep in the car on the way home from the Whites' and that she remained asleep. The discovery of the pineapple in her GI tract only became known to the Ramseys much later.

The RDI contend that JB did in fact wake up and ate pineapple but that the Ramseys had no choice but to stick to their original story that she did not wake up because to change their story would have made them look very suspicious.

Patsy was only questioned for the first time about the pineapple in her 1998 interview and when asked if it was likely JB would have woken up during the night and gone downstairs by herself to get a snack, she said it was very unlikely. But my contention is that if the Ramseys were guilty, Patsy could have used the opportunity that was presented to her by saying it was not at all unlikely JonBenet would have done that. It would have given her the perfect "out" and no one would have been able to prove differently. From Patsy's 1998 interview:

1 TRIP DEMUTH: What about JonBenet, did she
2 ever get up in the middle of the night to go down to
3 the kitchen to get something to eat? In your
4 experience has she ever done that before?
5 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
6 TRIP DEMUTH: If she was going to snack, what
7 would she snack on during the day? You said there was
8 plenty of other things around, what would that be?
9 PATSY RAMSEY: She liked grapes. I had a
10 basket that I would keep raisins and those fruit
11 roll-up things, you know.
12 TRIP DEMUTH: Where were the grapes?
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Grapes would be like -- I
14 mean, I don't know that I had grapes that day. That is
15 what she liked to snack on.
16 TRIP DEMUTH: Where would you have kept
17 those?
18 PATSY RAMSEY: I would have kept those
19 probably on the counter there somewhere.
20 TRIP DEMUTH: Which counter?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: The center island.
22 TRIP DEMUTH: In the kitchen?
23 PATSY RAMSEY: In the kitchen.
24 TRIP DEMUTH: Okay.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: But I can't -- I can't imagine
0495
1 she would go downstairs to get something to eat. More
2 likely she would come upstairs and say, I'm hungry, for
3 me to go. Just it doesn't fit.

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#31 Jan 16, 2013
Archimage wrote:
<quoted text>
congratulations you have managed to use big words to sound clever without presenting any other argument than I can't believe your so stupid you can't see the obvious......
Oh now, there, their, they're

“WAX ON”

Since: Jul 10

WAX OFF

#32 Jan 16, 2013
John Ramsey states in his June 1998 Interrogation by Lou Smit and Mike Kane that he didn’t even know if JBR could open the walk-in fridge, so again, there would be conflicting information between the Ramseys themselves regarding whether or not she went downstairs in the middle of the night, opened the walk-in that JR says he didn’t think she could open (yet he looked in there for her on the early morning of the 26th – so could she or couldn’t she open it?).

It would not have proven to be a “perfect out” for PR as she backed this theory up by saying JBR would go get her (PR) to get her a snack (because she couldn’t open the fridge?).

The RDI are not steadfast that she awoke and went downstairs, please be accurate. Some believe BR who said she was awake and walked up the stairs (you know, out of the mouths of babes comes pure honesty and all). What is most likely true is she never went to bed that night. Some believe she was killed before bedtime could ever happen.
Lynette 22 wrote:
The RDI contend that JB did in fact wake up and ate pineapple but that the Ramseys had no choice but to stick to their original story that she did not wake up because to change their story would have made them look very suspicious.
Patsy was only questioned for the first time about the pineapple in her 1998 interview and when asked if it was likely JB would have woken up during the night and gone downstairs by herself to get a snack, she said it was very unlikely. But my contention is that if the Ramseys were guilty, Patsy could have used the opportunity that was presented to her by saying it was not at all unlikely JonBenet would have done that. It would have given her the perfect "out" and no one would have been able to prove differently.
Steve Eller

United States

#33 Jan 16, 2013
Archimage wrote:
<quoted text>
congratulations you have managed to use big words to sound clever without presenting any other argument than I can't believe your so stupid you can't see the obvious. The girl eating pineapple is not going to point to them being guilty unless its proven she ate it exactly when the bloody note is being written by the family so why bother? Not to mention its so insignificant it's more likely they would have forgotten about and just admitted to feeding her pineapple instead of denying it.
Oh and by the by i know the evidence stacked against the family i never said it was impossible that they did it I was just saying some things are odd and its not infeasible that she was killed by an outside party. Oh and unless you were a detective on the case you are no more "informed" than the rest of us so don't try to act superior by insulting other opinions because you believe there wrong.
Being familiar and informed about a case does not require having been a detective investigating the case. I did not insult your opinion I took issue with the manner in which it was conceived because there are basic indisputable aspects of the case such as fat cats and pineapple that are being explained to you by RDI (Ramseys did it) and IDI (Intruder did it) proponents alike. Acknowledging feeding JonBenet pineapple blows away the initial timeline given by the Ramseys to investigators and their initial version of how the 'kidnapping' took place.

Since: Sep 11

Alberton, South Africa

#34 Jan 16, 2013
DrSeussMd wrote:
John Ramsey states in his June 1998 Interrogation by Lou Smit and Mike Kane that he didn’t even know if JBR could open the walk-in fridge, so again, there would be conflicting information between the Ramseys themselves regarding whether or not she went downstairs in the middle of the night, opened the walk-in that JR says he didn’t think she could open (yet he looked in there for her on the early morning of the 26th – so could she or couldn’t she open it?).
It would not have proven to be a “perfect out” for PR as she backed this theory up by saying JBR would go get her (PR) to get her a snack (because she couldn’t open the fridge?).
The RDI are not steadfast that she awoke and went downstairs, please be accurate. Some believe BR who said she was awake and walked up the stairs (you know, out of the mouths of babes comes pure honesty and all). What is most likely true is she never went to bed that night. Some believe she was killed before bedtime could ever happen.
<quoted text>
I haven't checked the exact wording in John's interview, but if your information is correct, John merely said he didn't KNOW if she could open the fridge. That doesn't necessarily mean she couldn't. Since Patsy spent a lot more time around the children than John did, she could have said that JonBenet WAS able to open the fridge, so the contradictions in their statements would have been easily explainable. And anyway, why did the pineapple necessarily have to be in the fridge? Patsy could easily have said it must have been taken out earlier in the day and not put back. John wouldn't have known any better. He was out for quite some time that afternoon.

John looking for her in the fridge on the 26th further serves to confirm he didn't really know whether or not she could open it. If he knew she couldn't open it, why would he say he looked for her there? Or do you think he thought the "kidnapper" hid her in the fridge?

RDI theories vary and if I didn't cover all of them in my post, I beg your forgiveness:(. Not all RDI believe she never got to bed in the first place. Some believe she did go to bed but woke up due to a bedwetting accident. Or have you forgotten ST's theory, which, ridiculous as it is, some still believe to this day?

What Burke supposedly said, according to ST, about JB walking up the stairs to bed, hardly came out of the mouth of a "babe". Burke was eleven years old when he SUPPOSEDLY made that statement and the Ramseys KNEW he was going to be interviewed, so if, in fact, JB was awake, they'd have been most emphatic in drumming it into his head that he was NOT to say so, but to say she was fast asleep.
Funny how you believe the Ramseys (including Burke) are liars but happily believe them when it suits your theory to do so.

BTW, where in Patsy's interview did she say JonBenet would wake her up to get a snack "because she couldn't open the fridge"? That was not what she said at all.

“WAX ON”

Since: Jul 10

WAX OFF

#35 Jan 16, 2013
I never said she said it BECAUSE she couldn't open the fridge, however, the last three lines in YOUR post #30, state from Patsy herself that JBR would most likely wake PR up to get her a snack. That is an insinuation she could not get in the walk-in fridge by herself. Other than that I don't see why a 6 year old couldn't get her own snack, do you? Patsy said she left things on the counter for them, grapes, fruit roll ups, etc. You think maybe she couldn't reach the counter, LOL?
Lynette 22 wrote:
BTW, where in Patsy's interview did she say JonBenet would wake her up to get a snack "because she couldn't open the fridge"? That was not what she said at all.

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#36 Jan 16, 2013
DrSeussMd wrote:
I never said she said it BECAUSE she couldn't open the fridge, however, the last three lines in YOUR post #30, state from Patsy herself that JBR would most likely wake PR up to get her a snack. That is an insinuation she could not get in the walk-in fridge by herself. Other than that I don't see why a 6 year old couldn't get her own snack, do you? Patsy said she left things on the counter for them, grapes, fruit roll ups, etc. You think maybe she couldn't reach the counter, LOL?
<quoted text>
LOL Seuss

Oh well, it was so nice while it lasted eh? I will focus on how pleasant things were for awhile instead of ..........

Feel free to borrow my tag line. It sounds like you will need it :)

“WAX ON”

Since: Jul 10

WAX OFF

#37 Jan 16, 2013
I am with L_E, LOL - Words Cannot Express ;)

As for the tag lines, they need to read yours and mine both, for we are not the ones who are misunderstanding or into propaganda.
Capricorn wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL Seuss
Oh well, it was so nice while it lasted eh? I will focus on how pleasant things were for awhile instead of ..........
Feel free to borrow my tag line. It sounds like you will need it :)

Since: Feb 12

Honolulu, HI

#39 Jan 16, 2013
Hi Dr S and Capricorn, I think what Archimage is trying to say, is that there is a possibility of an intruder, while most of us RDI would say there is no way there could be one.

As for me, and I am not speaking for ALL RDI, it is quite impossible to fit an intruder in with all of the events of the murder. ESPECIALLY that the RN would have had to be written BEFORE the murder, while the alleged murderer could not have known about his/her "success" beforehand.
Archimage

Houston, TX

#40 Jan 16, 2013
O.K. since its starting to sound like I have insulted a few people I want to set the record strait. The pathetic attempt at a clever ransom note, the pineapple she ate, the lousy attempt to hide the body although there are points of the official story that irk me, which I have attempted to bring to attention as nothing more than peculiar, the main reason I am pushing the intruder theory is because I am giving the FBI the benefit of the doubt. As I understand it the FBI discovered DNA on the body from an unidentified male. If correct then family and close friends would have to be ruled out. This is based on the new inquiry into the case.
The Truth Hurts

United States

#41 Jan 16, 2013
Archimage wrote:
<quoted text>
Isn't that the point though? How does Pineapple incriminate them? I mean they could have forgotten about and just said latter "Oh right we gave her that before she went to sleep" not blame it on an intruder its such an odd thing to lie about its actually possible they were telling the truth just because its so unlikely. And honestly no I would not lie about bloody pineapple if I had my daughters murder to cover up. Its such a small thing wouldn't you just admit to it? its not like its crucial evidence the cops aren't going to say aw ha! the parents fed her pineapple its a cover up. I mean come on its a midnight snack.
No, they could not have said that they gave it to her before she went to sleep. Their story was that she fell asleep in the car and did not wake up.
It isn't a "small thing" because it proves the child was awake and had pineapple to eat prior to her death.
How can you admit something when you LIED to begin with? The police locked them into their story about JB being asleep before they brought up the pineapple. If you don't see the significance in that, I don't know what to tell you.

How much have you read about this case anyway? It appears not much.

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