OCCK, Are All Pedophiles Psycopaths b...

OCCK, Are All Pedophiles Psycopaths by Definition?

Posted in the JonBenet Ramsey Forum

cyberpoop

United States

#1 Mar 20, 2009
I wonder whether you all would comment on this question. Do you think a pedophile would have to be a sociopath or psychopath to do what pedophiles do? Think about it this way: There are circumstances where one person kills another but isn't a psychopath. And of course psychopaths kill as well.
But is there such a thing as a pedophile who isn't a psychopath? Thanks
cyberpoop

United States

#2 Mar 20, 2009
Sorry folks, they edited my title to make it look like I'm addressing OCCK! It originally said "Regarding OCCK, Are All Pedophiles...etc.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#3 Mar 20, 2009
I've always wondered that myself. Just with killers in general.
I'm not sure how you would define a psycopath, really.
Ok, you have some punk in a gang. Let's make him...17. He pulls up to a car and robs the people. He shoots them, they die. This is the 5th time in his life that he's done this. The first were hard, but it gets easier. Is he a psycopath? What if he doesn't believe in God, he doesn't care if he dies, and jail doesn't scare him ?
Is he a psycopath ? Does he have a conscience ? That's the question ? Say I'm mad, real mad at someone. What stops me from hurting them ? My conscience or the fact that I do believe in God, I don't want to die, and I don't want to go to jail ? Well, what if I didn't believe in God, could care less if I die, and I don't much worry about jail ? What if I hurt him then ? Am I just a criminal, someone with no conscience, or just evil ? I believe in evil. It exists.
There's a show on tv. This doctor rates murderers from 1 to 22. I seldom agree with what level he puts these people in, until he says why.
What was Jeffery Damer ? He did have a conscience ? Yes, so he said. He didn't want to kill, he was sorry. He even tried NOT to cause pain for his victims. What is he ? He's a serial killer. But, at what level ? There was sex and sometimes torture involved in his crimes. But, was he sick ? I think so. He showed signs at an early age.
What about the school killings in Columbine ? Where do those two kids fit in ? They knew it was wrong, they knew they were going to die, and they said they had no belief in a God. Are they psycopaths ? Serial killers ? Spree killers ?
My opinion of the occk, which is just an opinion, is that they were all killed by sociaopathic people who had no true conscience but, may or may not have still believed in God, and obviously was afraid of getting caught and going to jail.
Ted Lamborgine has been found guilty of child molesting, yet he had found God - after the fact, said he was sorry, and felt God forgave him. IF, just if, he did kill any children, and he's truly sorry, would he be a psycopath ? Still ? Son of Sam ? He found God. There was no sex involved in his crimes. What is he ? Sick ? A monster ?
You're right, this isn't a real answer. What do I believe ?? I believe in evil. I really don't need a scale of 1 to 22. I don't really care about their childhoods and if they wet the bed. I don't believe in forgiveness for some crimes, but that's up to God, not me.
For anyone to molest, rape, torture, and kill a child ? They're evil- period.
Why give them the benefit of a "Medical" term or reason ? When they do get caught, I hope so- it's been over 30 years, what are they going to say ? I'm sorry ? I was sick, I realize that now ? I've changed ? No, evil never goes away.
We will never know why this happened to these kids, never. Not the "Why" part of it.
Someone give me an opinion on BTK. I'd really like to know where people think he fits in this psyco babble.
CandyO

Portage, IN

#4 Mar 21, 2009
Not all Pedophiles are sociopaths. A sociopath feels no remorse what so ever. It is all about the socio and their gratification regardless of how it affects others. There are some peds who do feel remorse and pain each and every time they violate a child.
cyberpoop

United States

#5 Mar 21, 2009
Flip Over wrote:
I've always wondered that myself. Just with killers in general.
I'm not sure how you would define a psycopath, really.
Ok, you have some punk in a gang. Let's make him...17. He pulls up to a car and robs the people. He shoots them, they die. This is the 5th time in his life that he's done this. The first were hard, but it gets easier. Is he a psycopath? What if he doesn't believe in God, he doesn't care if he dies, and jail doesn't scare him ?
Is he a psycopath ? Does he have a conscience ? That's the question ? Say I'm mad, real mad at someone. What stops me from hurting them ? My conscience or the fact that I do believe in God, I don't want to die, and I don't want to go to jail ? Well, what if I didn't believe in God, could care less if I die, and I don't much worry about jail ? What if I hurt him then ? Am I just a criminal, someone with no conscience, or just evil ? I believe in evil. It exists.
There's a show on tv. This doctor rates murderers from 1 to 22. I seldom agree with what level he puts these people in, until he says why.
What was Jeffery Damer ? He did have a conscience ? Yes, so he said. He didn't want to kill, he was sorry. He even tried NOT to cause pain for his victims. What is he ? He's a serial killer. But, at what level ? There was sex and sometimes torture involved in his crimes. But, was he sick ? I think so. He showed signs at an early age.
What about the school killings in Columbine ? Where do those two kids fit in ? They knew it was wrong, they knew they were going to die, and they said they had no belief in a God. Are they psycopaths ? Serial killers ? Spree killers ?
My opinion of the occk, which is just an opinion, is that they were all killed by sociaopathic people who had no true conscience but, may or may not have still believed in God, and obviously was afraid of getting caught and going to jail.
Ted Lamborgine has been found guilty of child molesting, yet he had found God - after the fact, said he was sorry, and felt God forgave him. IF, just if, he did kill any children, and he's truly sorry, would he be a psycopath ? Still ? Son of Sam ? He found God. There was no sex involved in his crimes. What is he ? Sick ? A monster ?
You're right, this isn't a real answer. What do I believe ?? I believe in evil. I really don't need a scale of 1 to 22. I don't really care about their childhoods and if they wet the bed. I don't believe in forgiveness for some crimes, but that's up to God, not me.
For anyone to molest, rape, torture, and kill a child ? They're evil- period.
Why give them the benefit of a "Medical" term or reason ? When they do get caught, I hope so- it's been over 30 years, what are they going to say ? I'm sorry ? I was sick, I realize that now ? I've changed ? No, evil never goes away.
We will never know why this happened to these kids, never. Not the "Why" part of it.
Someone give me an opinion on BTK. I'd really like to know where people think he fits in this psyco babble.
Flip, you have really wowed me with your reply. I am so much in agreement with you. It is so very hard to decide whether an offender is sociopathic or not. In my terms sociopathic means there's something fundamentally wrong in the brain and the person doesn't feel guilt because he doesn't buy into the live-and-let-live principle in the first place. regarding Ted and others who have found God - I don't think they've found shit unless they spend the rest of teir lives trying to make up for what they did - by telling where the bodies are buried, by looking into their own souls to explain what they're about and how we normals can catch them ahead of time, by making monetary restitution, by doing anything and everything possible to make up. Of course these dudes don't even lift a finger - BECAUSE THEYRE NOT SORRY.
cyberpoop

United States

#6 Mar 21, 2009
CandyO wrote:
Not all Pedophiles are sociopaths. A sociopath feels no remorse what so ever. It is all about the socio and their gratification regardless of how it affects others. There are some peds who do feel remorse and pain each and every time they violate a child.
Possibly this is true but if so why do they do it again the next time instead of handcuffing themselves to a water pipe until the feeling goes away? I don't see real remorse even with the pedo priests who are supposed to be men of god and turn right around and say mass.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#7 Mar 21, 2009
cyberpoop wrote:
<quoted text>Flip, you have really wowed me with your reply. I am so much in agreement with you. It is so very hard to decide whether an offender is sociopathic or not. In my terms sociopathic means there's something fundamentally wrong in the brain and the person doesn't feel guilt because he doesn't buy into the live-and-let-live principle in the first place. regarding Ted and others who have found God - I don't think they've found shit unless they spend the rest of teir lives trying to make up for what they did - by telling where the bodies are buried, by looking into their own souls to explain what they're about and how we normals can catch them ahead of time, by making monetary restitution, by doing anything and everything possible to make up. Of course these dudes don't even lift a finger - BECAUSE THEYRE NOT SORRY.
Thanks, I have a habit of writing long replies, sorry.
I do think some molesters aren't sociopaths. I would think most aren't. I was molested as a child. I was a quiet kid and small. No one "hurt" me. What they did was wrong, but the one relative went out of his way not to hurt me. I'm sure if I'd asked him to stop he would have. But, in the 70's, before good touch/bad touch, and you did what you're told to do, you don't think of saying no. I didn't. I raised my kids to !!
I did get an apology from one when I was older.
Maybe they don't fit into a catagory. Maybe each offender falls into different areas.
There was a man on our block who molested four of my friends in the pool one day. I was at home, thank God. But, when it went to court in 1975, he told the judge he was guilty, he couldn't help himself, and shouldn't be around children. His sentence ?? He had to move. He died about 5 years ago. I doubt he stopped, but did seem sorry.
So I just don't know.
cyberpoop

United States

#8 Mar 22, 2009
Flip Over wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks, I have a habit of writing long replies, sorry.
I do think some molesters aren't sociopaths. I would think most aren't. I was molested as a child. I was a quiet kid and small. No one "hurt" me. What they did was wrong, but the one relative went out of his way not to hurt me. I'm sure if I'd asked him to stop he would have. But, in the 70's, before good touch/bad touch, and you did what you're told to do, you don't think of saying no. I didn't. I raised my kids to !!
I did get an apology from one when I was older.
Maybe they don't fit into a catagory. Maybe each offender falls into different areas.
There was a man on our block who molested four of my friends in the pool one day. I was at home, thank God. But, when it went to court in 1975, he told the judge he was guilty, he couldn't help himself, and shouldn't be around children. His sentence ?? He had to move. He died about 5 years ago. I doubt he stopped, but did seem sorry.
So I just don't know.
Well, that's interesting. Psychopaths are supposedly defined as people who don't have a conscience, so they just do anything they want without any understanding of what it may do to others. Do you really think the people you ran into gave a thought about what the effect of their behavior would have on you? So far I've been leaning towards believing that molesters have to be psychopaths.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#9 Mar 22, 2009
I don't know. I really don't.
I think maybe it's in what they do ? I know this will come wrong....But, if someone touched me for bit, over my shorts and then left, I would say he had real problems. But the man who beats and rapes a child, yep, psyco. I think child rapers are all sociopaths. Take - I hate giving out names, but he made it public already -- Chip, Grant's son. He had raped and tortured his own son since he was 3. The stories are aweful. I can't imagine surviving all that. Ok, he didn't kill, well not his son. I think he should be put to sleep. He's pure evil.
I think every case is different.
Ok, say I get raped. I'm not down playing anything. That would be terrible. But, if the man doesn't beat me, choke me, try to kill me, and rape me for hours -- do I put him in the psyco catagory with the man that does a quick job, doesn't beat me, etc...
If I were raped, I would pray for the non-psyco to be there, not the other guy.
I'm sure that didn't come out right ?
My childhood was mixed with both.
Maybe that's why I differenciate. I know I spelled that wrong.....I was a victim. Maybe I answer questions like this from a different perspective. I just don't know. The terrible stuff I kind of blocked out. The little stuff I remember big time and all of it still messes me up, if I let it.

Since: Jul 08

North Carolina

#10 Mar 22, 2009
In the end it doesn't not matter how they are categorized.

A person with a compulsion to hurt others is a danger to others, regardless of reason. A pedophile with a compulsion to act out is victimizing someone who is not an adult and not capable of understanding the "big picture" of life, crime and what it could do to their heads and emotions for a lifetime.

The main purpose of incarceration is keep people safe from a criminal who will not or cannot stop. Punishment is only a secondary reason. A 70 year old with Alzheimer's is not a sociopath or a psychopath. He may not have known what he was doing when he shot someone or stabbed someone to death on impulse, out of free, or thinking a knife was a shirt he was putting on the victim. But he can't be allowed to walk about freely in society regardless of WHY he is a danger to others.

The problem with pedophilia is that it is compulsive.

Since: Jul 08

North Carolina

#11 Mar 22, 2009
Meant to write "out of fear" instead of what I wrote.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#12 Mar 22, 2009
lucyd wrote:
In the end it doesn't not matter how they are categorized.
A person with a compulsion to hurt others is a danger to others, regardless of reason. A pedophile with a compulsion to act out is victimizing someone who is not an adult and not capable of understanding the "big picture" of life, crime and what it could do to their heads and emotions for a lifetime.
The main purpose of incarceration is keep people safe from a criminal who will not or cannot stop. Punishment is only a secondary reason. A 70 year old with Alzheimer's is not a sociopath or a psychopath. He may not have known what he was doing when he shot someone or stabbed someone to death on impulse, out of free, or thinking a knife was a shirt he was putting on the victim. But he can't be allowed to walk about freely in society regardless of WHY he is a danger to others.
The problem with pedophilia is that it is compulsive.
Yes, yes and yes. I agree.
cyberpoop

United States

#13 Mar 23, 2009
Flip Over wrote:
I don't know. I really don't.
I think maybe it's in what they do ? I know this will come wrong....But, if someone touched me for bit, over my shorts and then left, I would say he had real problems. But the man who beats and rapes a child, yep, psyco. I think child rapers are all sociopaths. Take - I hate giving out names, but he made it public already -- Chip, Grant's son. He had raped and tortured his own son since he was 3. The stories are aweful. I can't imagine surviving all that. Ok, he didn't kill, well not his son. I think he should be put to sleep. He's pure evil.
I think every case is different.
Ok, say I get raped. I'm not down playing anything. That would be terrible. But, if the man doesn't beat me, choke me, try to kill me, and rape me for hours -- do I put him in the psyco catagory with the man that does a quick job, doesn't beat me, etc...
If I were raped, I would pray for the non-psyco to be there, not the other guy.
I'm sure that didn't come out right ?
My childhood was mixed with both.
Maybe that's why I differenciate. I know I spelled that wrong.....I was a victim. Maybe I answer questions like this from a different perspective. I just don't know. The terrible stuff I kind of blocked out. The little stuff I remember big time and all of it still messes me up, if I let it.
I think you have a lot of insight into this question and you've really given me some things to think over. Thanks again.
cyberpoop

United States

#14 Mar 23, 2009
lucyd wrote:
In the end it doesn't not matter how they are categorized.
A person with a compulsion to hurt others is a danger to others, regardless of reason. A pedophile with a compulsion to act out is victimizing someone who is not an adult and not capable of understanding the "big picture" of life, crime and what it could do to their heads and emotions for a lifetime.
The main purpose of incarceration is keep people safe from a criminal who will not or cannot stop. Punishment is only a secondary reason. A 70 year old with Alzheimer's is not a sociopath or a psychopath. He may not have known what he was doing when he shot someone or stabbed someone to death on impulse, out of free, or thinking a knife was a shirt he was putting on the victim. But he can't be allowed to walk about freely in society regardless of WHY he is a danger to others.
The problem with pedophilia is that it is compulsive.
Yes, the wrongness is only a matter of degree. Yes, it is always a repeated offense because the person has an overwhelming compulsion. So does that mean that if they have a conscience they COULD be expected to "handcuff themselves to the drainpipe" until the feeling passes or does it mean they CAN NOT stop themselves, in which case it is a sickness? Don't get me wrong, just because it may be a sickness doesn't mean I think it's forgiveable. No way. They need to be taken out of society in some way, absolutely.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#15 Mar 23, 2009
cyberpoop wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, the wrongness is only a matter of degree. Yes, it is always a repeated offense because the person has an overwhelming compulsion. So does that mean that if they have a conscience they COULD be expected to "handcuff themselves to the drainpipe" until the feeling passes or does it mean they CAN NOT stop themselves, in which case it is a sickness? Don't get me wrong, just because it may be a sickness doesn't mean I think it's forgiveable. No way. They need to be taken out of society in some way, absolutely.
I do think, where ever they fall - and I wish they would, right off the planet - they all go a little farther with each assault. That's why they should never let out of jail !!
cyberpoop

United States

#16 Mar 23, 2009
Flip Over wrote:
<quoted text>
I do think, where ever they fall - and I wish they would, right off the planet - they all go a little farther with each assault. That's why they should never let out of jail !!
I found you new site and joined. Thanks, C. ermin

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#17 Mar 23, 2009
Not anything yet. I'm just going to try to get people to listen and understand, like you. Sometimes you need pictures.
I have to sort through them. I want the story told in the right order without going over board.
It's a lot to think about. It's hard. I don't even know who I'm doing it for. I guess all kids, known and unknown. Maybe for the little girl in the picture who found no help.
cyberpoop

United States

#18 Mar 24, 2009
Flip Over wrote:
Not anything yet. I'm just going to try to get people to listen and understand, like you. Sometimes you need pictures.
I have to sort through them. I want the story told in the right order without going over board.
It's a lot to think about. It's hard. I don't even know who I'm doing it for. I guess all kids, known and unknown. Maybe for the little girl in the picture who found no help.
Yes, you are doing it for "the little girl" in the picture, to try to rise above the past. And for all the kids whom you'll never meet, who are going through this. And for all the kids who will escape abuse because someone will get wise and prevent it.
Spongeballs

United States

#19 Apr 16, 2009
I dont think all pedophiles are psycopaths. I believe the ones that arent psycos are something else entirely. I believe they probably do feel "sorry" but truly cannot help themselves. Similar to a drug addict.. I've known several who recover from a heroin addiction, go thru weeks of withdrawls and sickness, get clean and a few weeks/months later relapses. I think it may be closer to the definition of insanity.?? But then again, I'm no expert. Who knows, maybe they are just pedophiles. IDK
Spongeballs

United States

#20 Apr 16, 2009
One more thing.. I would think that child killers are most definitly psycos. YES, they should be tortured and executed!

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