Burke's whereabouts the morning of th...
Just Wondering

Hockessin, DE

#52 Jan 10, 2014
icedtea4me wrote:
<quoted text>
Wouldn't a certain flight path have to be followed so as not to interfere with other flights? What about any witnesses on the ground who would see a large object falling out of the sky? I'd think that authorities would be able to easily determine what flights were over that particular region to connect that suitcase with a dead body in it to a particular aircraft.
Yes, they would have had to follow a certain flight path. No doubt. Would they be landing to refuel? I shouldn't take this at all seriously. But it is interesting to ponder. When you are flying by the seat of your pants, so to speak, you have to cross each bridge as you come to it. As I mentioned, I am sure I have been watching too much real crime tv.

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#53 Jan 10, 2014
The body could have been disposed of a thousand different ways BUT..........What were they going to say once they landed in another state? WHERE IS JBR??????????

How would they answer that?

They can't just say that she was kidnapped in Colorado but decided to keep their plans in Charlevoix
Just Wondering

Sophia, WV

#54 Jan 10, 2014
Capricorn wrote:
The body could have been disposed of a thousand different ways BUT..........What were they going to say once they landed in another state? WHERE IS JBR??????????
How would they answer that?
They can't just say that she was kidnapped in Colorado but decided to keep their plans in Charlevoix
I shouldn't think they would have flown out immediately. They would have waited until the kidnapper's call failed to materialize, the police to exit the home--then they would have flown home to the consoling arms of family and friends. In theory.

John was on the phone that morning with his pilot making plans. Right?

When I consider that I cannot imagine a mother making a garrote for her daughter's neck, or wanting to put her body outside in the cold to be gnawed by animals, yet I can imagine the family putting her body in a suitcase and dropping it from the sky, I wonder at my own sanity. But what options are there here? This crime is so convoluted.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#55 Jan 10, 2014
I don't think they could handle the emotional challenge of disposing of the body. Mother's have a hard time parting with bodies of their dead children. Sometimes they 'preserve' them in plastic or water because they can't dispose of them.

In the Ranson note the 'proper' burial is referenced as though she were obviously already dead but also it shows how significant the pomp and cerermony was to them.
icedtea4me

Saint Louis, MO

#56 Jan 10, 2014
Just Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
I shouldn't think they would have flown out immediately. They would have waited until the kidnapper's call failed to materialize, the police to exit the home--then they would have flown home to the consoling arms of family and friends. In theory.
John: It's 10:01 a.m. and there's been no call from the kidnapper.
Det. Arndt: I guess I'll be going now.
John: And we'll be on our way to Charlevoix.
John was on the phone that morning with his pilot making plans. Right?
He called Archuleta, told him that JonBenet had been kidnapped, and asked him to tell John Andrew, Melinda, and Stewart to call him immediately when they arrived in Minneapolis. Then, about 30 minutes after JonBenet was found, he called Archuleta again to ask him to fly him, Patsy, and Burke to Atlanta.
Just Wondering

Sophia, WV

#57 Jan 11, 2014
Whoever wrote the ransom note was either attempting to appear na´ve or was definitely na´ve. Not having dealt with the police or a kidnapping, the Ramseys might consider all kinds of plans of actions because they had no personal experience on which to base their reasoning. Especially if they were highly distraught at the time.( I think that is the reason the simplest of evidence was overlooked--the need for a point of entry.)

I would not push my above scenario as the "end all" of solutions or even as a valid plan, but neither would it be too far fetched to consider if you are under extreme pressure. I think the Ramseys were covering all their bases with the ransom note, choosing the wine cellar with the latched door, using a garrote to cover the strangulation marks, pseudo molestation of Jonbenet that night to point to a pedophile etc.

As a good business executive, John would know to have plan B or C in the wings if plan A backfired. However, being adept at maneuvering through the business world, does not necessarily guarantee that you are familiar with the seedier side of life where crimes are committed and need to be covered up or a familiarity with the procedures of the police once they are called in to investigate. One can be successful in one arena of life but na´ve about another. Who can know what the Ramseys' thoughts were in their state of panic?

And I do know that the police's first impression was that Mr. Ramsey was making plans to leave the area as soon as possible. He had a meeting he had to attend. Of course, we know from his book that he was concerned with meeting his other children who were en route to Michigan. But the police were at first suspicious of his actions in that regard.

I defer to those of you who are more familiar with flight plans, Ramseys' reasoning, and knowledge of the crime itself. Someone, please tie all the loose ends together. It is consuming my life.:(
real Topaz

AOL

#58 Jan 11, 2014
Just Wondering wrote:
Whoever wrote the ransom note was either attempting to appear na´ve or was definitely na´ve. Not having dealt with the police or a kidnapping, the Ramseys might consider all kinds of plans of actions because they had no personal experience on which to base their reasoning. Especially if they were highly distraught at the time.( I think that is the reason the simplest of evidence was overlooked--the need for a point of entry.)
I would not push my above scenario as the "end all" of solutions or even as a valid plan, but neither would it be too far fetched to consider if you are under extreme pressure. I think the Ramseys were covering all their bases with the ransom note, choosing the wine cellar with the latched door, using a garrote to cover the strangulation marks, pseudo molestation of Jonbenet that night to point to a pedophile etc.
As a good business executive, John would know to have plan B or C in the wings if plan A backfired. However, being adept at maneuvering through the business world, does not necessarily guarantee that you are familiar with the seedier side of life where crimes are committed and need to be covered up or a familiarity with the procedures of the police once they are called in to investigate. One can be successful in one arena of life but na´ve about another. Who can know what the Ramseys' thoughts were in their state of panic?
And I do know that the police's first impression was that Mr. Ramsey was making plans to leave the area as soon as possible. He had a meeting he had to attend. Of course, we know from his book that he was concerned with meeting his other children who were en route to Michigan. But the police were at first suspicious of his actions in that regard.
I defer to those of you who are more familiar with flight plans, Ramseys' reasoning, and knowledge of the crime itself. Someone, please tie all the loose ends together. It is consuming my life.:(
Oh come on! The Ramseys said they were flying to Mich that morning..when JB was finally pulled from the cellar, JR called the pilot to take him to GA. At that time he told cops he had something "I can't miss" in GA. Who called and changed JR's plans between 6am and 1pm? He was headed to Michigan when he woke up and suddenly there's business in Georgia? His kids were flying to Denver via Minneapolis, NOT Atlanta where supposedly JAR and Melinda flew out of that morning. Sheesh!
Nothing suspicious there, right?

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#59 Jan 13, 2014
If... IF the plan was to dispose of JonBenet's body after no call from the "kidnappers", and after the BPD pack up and leave, they wouldn't have flown directly from their house. They would have driven from the house to the airport. With no one following them, there would be ample opportunity for a short detour into a secluded area off the road to the airport.

I don't think throwing a body from an airplane was ever a thought, much less a plan. The pilot (Archuletta) would be aware of any activity on the plane that would be necessary to do that. And later, the finding of her body that had obviously fallen from a long distance (not to mention the possibility of someone seeing it) would be extremely suspicious considering that they were known to have been flying out of Boulder.
Just Wondering

Sophia, WV

#60 Jan 13, 2014
We heard originally that John was to fly the plane the next morning and that was why he took the sleeping aid that night that kept him from hearing anything to alert him to his daughter's distress. I suppose, Mr. Archuletta would have served as his co-pilot? I am completely in the dark when it comes to owning and flying a private plane.

For the record, I do not have any idea where they may have disposed of the child's body or even if it was a viable plan. It just occurred to me that the Ramseys carrying an extra suitcase from the home the next day, would have been an acceptable sight. But it became quite obvious, quite quickly that the police were there for an extended stay, and there would be no chance of whisking the family away from Boulder.

I would prefer to think that the Ramseys were not capable of this crime and/or cover-up. Unfortunately, the evidence does not lend itself to that conclusion. So they had to have some plan--even if it was an illogical one. Who could think clearly at a time like that?

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#61 Jan 13, 2014
Just Wondering wrote:
We heard originally that John was to fly the plane the next morning and that was why he took the sleeping aid that night that kept him from hearing anything to alert him to his daughter's distress. I suppose, Mr. Archuletta would have served as his co-pilot? I am completely in the dark when it comes to owning and flying a private plane.
For the record, I do not have any idea where they may have disposed of the child's body or even if it was a viable plan. It just occurred to me that the Ramseys carrying an extra suitcase from the home the next day, would have been an acceptable sight. But it became quite obvious, quite quickly that the police were there for an extended stay, and there would be no chance of whisking the family away from Boulder.
I would prefer to think that the Ramseys were not capable of this crime and/or cover-up. Unfortunately, the evidence does not lend itself to that conclusion. So they had to have some plan--even if it was an illogical one. Who could think clearly at a time like that?
No one knows what the grand plan was but JR (and he ain't sayin'). We'll never know what might have been. I just see the idea of throwing her body out of a plane as nonviable, when there are better alternatives.

I don't know who would've been the pilot and who the copilot. I'm not sure, in fact, if that isn't something that could be changed at the last minute before takeoff. Doesn't really matter.

I too would like to think the family incapable of doing anything like this, JW. But "nice" people sometimes do terrible things. IMO, the evidence speaks for itself (as you note).

As another thought (before I post this), about the suitcase. I don't think it was necessary as a way of transporting her body. I think the suitcase is a red herring. If her body was going to be disposed of on the way to the airport, the suitcase wouldn't be left behind with it because of it possibly being tied to them. So then they would have an empty suitcase either with them on the plane, or in the trunk of the car. Again, not a very wise thing to do (IMO). All they would need to do is put the body in the trunk of the car (while in the closed garage), drive to the airport, stop along the way, then drive merrily on their way so they could "get on with their lives."
Joni Schuyler

Plano, TX

#62 Apr 12, 2017
Legal__Eagle wrote:
<quoted text>

Have you read Kolar's book? It is on page 370. He refers to it as "contained fecal material" not skid marks, and also refers to the candy box 'smeared' with feces.
Apparently, no one thinks this is unusual behavior for an almost 10 year old boy. Pair that with diapers or pull-ups to age 7 or beyond and a sister going the same route. Makes you wonder if maybe he snuck in there and peed on her bed to make her think she wet the bed. Seems like a real prankster or was it more than that?
Joni Schuyler

Plano, TX

#63 Apr 12, 2017
Just Wondering wrote:
Whoever wrote the ransom note was either attempting to appear na´ve or was definitely na´ve. Not having dealt with the police or a kidnapping, the Ramseys might consider all kinds of plans of actions because they had no personal experience on which to base their reasoning. Especially if they were highly distraught at the time.( I think that is the reason the simplest of evidence was overlooked--the need for a point of entry.)

I would not push my above scenario as the "end all" of solutions or even as a valid plan, but neither would it be too far fetched to consider if you are under extreme pressure. I think the Ramseys were covering all their bases with the ransom note, choosing the wine cellar with the latched door, using a garrote to cover the strangulation marks, pseudo molestation of Jonbenet that night to point to a pedophile etc.

As a good business executive, John would know to have plan B or C in the wings if plan A backfired. However, being adept at maneuvering through the business world, does not necessarily guarantee that you are familiar with the seedier side of life where crimes are committed and need to be covered up or a familiarity with the procedures of the police once they are called in to investigate. One can be successful in one arena of life but na´ve about another. Who can know what the Ramseys' thoughts were in their state of panic?

And I do know that the police's first impression was that Mr. Ramsey was making plans to leave the area as soon as possible. He had a meeting he had to attend. Of course, we know from his book that he was concerned with meeting his other children who were en route to Michigan. But the police were at first suspicious of his actions in that regard.

I defer to those of you who are more familiar with flight plans, Ramseys' reasoning, and knowledge of the crime itself. Someone, please tie all the loose ends together. It is consuming my life.:(
Today he says the plans were to meet up with the kids from his first marriage and then on to a multiple day Red Boat Disney cruise. Cue up the Christian women to moo, goo, coo, moan, and come up with adjectives like awesome, inspiring or moving.

I'm sorry for their grief. I just hope that one day that the last remaining member of the home will be able to tell his story without censorship or fear. I hope there is a plausible explanation for what happened.
RTIC

Spring, TX

#64 Apr 13, 2017
In my bed. In my bed. Did he have to write that 100 times? The 911 operator heard a young male voice and she said Patsy's hysterics stopped. She must feel awful. Why didn't she call back or was the phone off the hook? John lost his cell phone. Did Burke have a cell phone? Be interesting to see texts. The help painted a different picture of the household. Is what they say true?
kauna

United States

#65 Apr 15, 2017
In my bed. In my bed.

Brave burke.... put himself back to bed, after playing with new toys on main floor, while family slept, without the need of a mag light\flash light.
Almost 10yrs. and not as afraid of the dark as lil sis was.?
Latisha

Tulsa, OK

#66 Apr 15, 2017
Burke did it with a flashlight then molested her vaginer with a bamboo paint brush handle that left splinters in her vaginer. Burke's a white devil that killed his sister after molesting her.
Yeti

Seattle, WA

#67 Apr 16, 2017
kauna wrote:
In my bed. In my bed.

Brave burke.... put himself back to bed, after playing with new toys on main floor, while family slept, without the need of a mag light\flash light.
Almost 10yrs. and not as afraid of the dark as lil sis was.?
Not afraid of the basement either. He has a dark side.
berrytea333

Saint Louis, MO

#68 Apr 16, 2017
Yeti wrote:
<quoted text>

Not afraid of the basement either. He has a dark side.
Only a twit would think that not being afraid of the basement equals having a dark side.
Yeti

Seattle, WA

#69 Apr 19, 2017
gotgum wrote:
<quoted text>No one knows what the grand plan was but JR (and he ain't sayin'). We'll never know what might have been. I just see the idea of throwing her body out of a plane as nonviable, when there are better alternatives.

I don't know who would've been the pilot and who the copilot. I'm not sure, in fact, if that isn't something that could be changed at the last minute before takeoff. Doesn't really matter.

I too would like to think the family incapable of doing anything like this, JW. But "nice" people sometimes do terrible things. IMO, the evidence speaks for itself (as you note).

As another thought (before I post this), about the suitcase. I don't think it was necessary as a way of transporting her body. I think the suitcase is a red herring. If her body was going to be disposed of on the way to the airport, the suitcase wouldn't be left behind with it because of it possibly being tied to them. So then they would have an empty suitcase either with them on the plane, or in the trunk of the car. Again, not a very wise thing to do (IMO). All they would need to do is put the body in the trunk of the car (while in the closed garage), drive to the airport, stop along the way, then drive merrily on their way so they could "get on with their lives."
Should have gone to Crater Lake. Should have gone further North and left her body somewhere in the ice and snow where it would be preserved forever and never found. He wasn't using his walnut.

Since: Jan 17

Location hidden

#70 Apr 19, 2017
Yeti wrote:
<quoted text>

Should have gone to Crater Lake. Should have gone further North and left her body somewhere in the ice and snow where it would be preserved forever and never found. He wasn't using his walnut.
Had to stay in colorado
kauna

United States

#71 Apr 20, 2017
Yeti wrote:
<quoted text>

Should have gone to Crater Lake. Should have gone further North and left her body somewhere in the ice and snow where it would be preserved forever and never found. He wasn't using his walnut.
No walnuts...justs wallets...diff nut
:)

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