Steve Thomas on JonBenet Ramsey grand jury 10/14/99

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candy

East Lansing, MI

#1 Feb 8, 2013
I remember this so well. Steve Thomas's MOVING words the day after Hunter WE THOUGHT issued "no indictments" in the JonBenet Ramsey case grand jury. He SAID IT ALL. He didn't know then what we know know, that he was validated in his Patsy did it belief and WE WERE ROBBED, HE WAS ROBBED AND JONBENET WAS ROBBED OF JUSTICE:

Good Morning America, 10/14/99

www.abcnews.com

Charlie Gibson: Joining us from Boulder is Steve Thomas, one of the lead detectives in the case who resigned from the force a year ago in protest over what he says was mismanagement of the case by the Boulder district attorney. And he's currently writing a book about the case. It's good to have you back with us, Steve.

When you heard those words, we saw them played in the news, when District Attorney Alex Hunter came out and said, "The Boulder grand jury has completed its work and will not return." When you heard those words, your reaction?

Steve Thomas: "Well, it was very disappointing. I spoke last night with some other people involved in the case, and THERE WAS A GENERAL MIXTURE OF DISAPPOINTMENT AND DESPAIR, A FEELING OF DISGRACE, AND THAT AMERICA HAD SEEN GOVERNMENT AT IT'S WORST, ALMOST LIKE WE'D BEEN PUNCHED IN THE GUT, but not surprised."

CG: He said: "I must report to you that I and my prosecution task force believe we do not have sufficient evidence to warrant the filing of charges." His choice of words was very careful, and he said, "I and my prosecution force." He didn't allude to the grand jury. Do we even know if the grand jury voted?

ST: "We don't. I certainly don't. And I was trying to read between the lines as he spoke yesterday, and I think he chose his words very carefully. And hopefully today we'll learn a little more about that, but we don't know whether or not the grand jury voted. And we may never know."

CG: "But do you read that statement as saying, I, the district attorney wouldn't have prosecuted even if they'd wanted to return an indictment?"

ST: "Well, I'm sorry. We'll never know that grand jury, had they returned a true bill, an indictment. It's a two step process. And we'll never know if Hunter simply did not want to proceed with the grand jury's recommendation, an indictment based on probable cause when he has a beyond a reasonable doubt threshold that he's quick to remind us of."

CG: "You wrote a blistering resignation letter when you left. But given the ambiguity of the evidence that, that exists in this case, might he be right not to want to prosecute?"

ST: "Well, cases have been won on less and lost on more. This was not an O.J. case where we had overwhelming forensic DNA evidence. But this was a circumstantial case in which the sum of the parts built a compelling case. In his opinion, there was not a case to proceed with. I guess it's a matter of interpretation."

CG: "All right. Steve Thomas, thank you. Good to talk to you again. Look forward to talking with you further."

End of Segment

candy

East Lansing, MI

#2 Feb 8, 2013
Charlie Gibson's great catch that Hunter said "I and my prosecution task force believe we do not have sufficient evidence to warrant the filing of charges", NOT THE GRAND JURY SAID that! Good catch Charlie! I only wish the threads from Cybersleuths were around that day because all the RDI posters blamed Hunter, and only Hunter, for the HINKY "result", and they were right.
learnin

Greeley, KS

#3 Feb 8, 2013
Gibson was very astute, indeed, in picking up on
Hunter's evasive statement.

Since: Feb 12

Aiea, HI

#4 Feb 9, 2013
learnin wrote:
Gibson was very astute, indeed, in picking up on
Hunter's evasive statement.
Yes. THAT, was very observant of him. I like many other RDIs missed it, and believed the deception, pointing to the Grand Jury failing to indict.
CC

Since: Feb 12

Aiea, HI

#6 Feb 13, 2013
Anyone with an IQ higher than room temperature should be able to see that the note wasn't written by itself, and the writer had to be in the house when it was written.
Patsy wrote the ransom note.
CC
The Count of Monte Cristo wrote:
<quoted text>
...SCREECH!!!!
Validated about what? His PDI theory is inane. He should never have been made lead detective of a homicide case this complicated. He clearly was not ready for it.
Does it make any sense for Patsy to write a ransom note, leave the body in the basement, and then call 911 to the police to hurry over?
Don't you think it would have made a lot more sense to wait until AFTER she got the body out of the house before calling police? After all, the ransom note which ST alleges she wrote does give her all the time in the world with its disturbing threats to behead JonBenet if the police are called?
What sort of detective work is this?
And the worst of it is that Patsy could not even be positively identified as the author of the note! You would have thought that ST would have taken this as his first clue to start looking for an intruder.
Steve Eller

United States

#7 Feb 13, 2013
The Count of Monte Cristo wrote:
<quoted text>
...SCREECH!!!!
Validated about what? His PDI theory is inane. He should never have been made lead detective of a homicide case this complicated. He clearly was not ready for it.
Does it make any sense for Patsy to write a ransom note, leave the body in the basement, and then call 911 to the police to hurry over?
Don't you think it would have made a lot more sense to wait until AFTER she got the body out of the house before calling police? After all, the ransom note which ST alleges she wrote does give her all the time in the world with its disturbing threats to behead JonBenet if the police are called?
What sort of detective work is this?
And the worst of it is that Patsy could not even be positively identified as the author of the note! You would have thought that ST would have taken this as his first clue to start looking for an intruder.
Yes indeed you are such a visionary! I am sure Candy's apology is forthcoming or NOT! Hmm...where should we start? Maybe since they were flying to Michigan that morning, it might have been hard to transport a dead body without the neighbors noticing...yea maybe not a good idea to risk getting caught driving around with a murder victim in your car...or maybe they would have just left her in the back yard!
Of everyone investigated Patsy Ramsey was the only one who could NOT be EXCLUDED as the author of the ransom note. As for that ransom note, yea funny how Patsy doesn't blink before calling the Police and as many friends and relatives as fast as she could dial, even though the note DOES threaten beheading. Maybe she ignored those threats for the same reason she didn't flinch when she heard that they had found JonBenet. She knew that JonBenet was already dead.
You may indeed be right about one thing though, this may be a complicated case--very complicated at least for you to understand.
Anti-K

Grande Prairie, Canada

#9 Feb 13, 2013
Steve Eller wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes indeed you are such a visionary! I am sure Candy's apology is forthcoming or NOT! Hmm...where should we start? Maybe since they were flying to Michigan that morning, it might have been hard to transport a dead body without the neighbors noticing...yea maybe not a good idea to risk getting caught driving around with a murder victim in your car...or maybe they would have just left her in the back yard!
Of everyone investigated Patsy Ramsey was the only one who could NOT be EXCLUDED as the author of the ransom note. As for that ransom note, yea funny how Patsy doesn't blink before calling the Police and as many friends and relatives as fast as she could dial, even though the note DOES threaten beheading. Maybe she ignored those threats for the same reason she didn't flinch when she heard that they had found JonBenet. She knew that JonBenet was already dead.
You may indeed be right about one thing though, this may be a complicated case--very complicated at least for you to understand.
To be fair, it is said that Mrs Ramsey was the only person known to be in the house who could not be eliminated as based on the handwriting. This is quite different than saying “of everyone investigated.” And, as we should all know by now (see the Thomas depo, Carnes, etc.) many (of Thomas’s 73) could not be eliminated.

If she/they couldn’t figure out how to get rid of the body, then why invest so much effort and risk into faking a kidnapping and having the police come over? Invest effort (less!!) and risk (less!!) by faking a scenario where 1) it’s reasonable for the body to be in the house (accident) and 2) side-step the police (911 for ambulance or take body to hospital). Less effort, less risk – if they can cover up, run away and escape from a murder they can cover up, run away and escape from an accident.

Why threaten yourself with beheading, etc. if you call the authorities when your plan is to call the authorities?


AK
Steve Eller

United States

#12 Feb 13, 2013
Dale Fowler wrote:
You have to understand that this is a forum of a handful of wanna be sleuths. They have been here for years and do nothing more than clean each other toenails in their single wides. Yes, they are on 24/7.
Such a brave little dork insulting people while hiding behind your monitor.
learnin

Greeley, KS

#13 Feb 13, 2013
Anti-K wrote:
<quoted text>
To be fair, it is said that Mrs Ramsey was the only person known to be in the house who could not be eliminated as based on the handwriting. This is quite different than saying “of everyone investigated.” And, as we should all know by now (see the Thomas depo, Carnes, etc.) many (of Thomas’s 73) could not be eliminated.
If she/they couldn’t figure out how to get rid of the body, then why invest so much effort and risk into faking a kidnapping and having the police come over? Invest effort (less!!) and risk (less!!) by faking a scenario where 1) it’s reasonable for the body to be in the house (accident) and 2) side-step the police (911 for ambulance or take body to hospital). Less effort, less risk – if they can cover up, run away and escape from a murder they can cover up, run away and escape from an accident.
Why threaten yourself with beheading, etc. if you call the authorities when your plan is to call the authorities?

AK
You've got your little girl's dead body in the house and you (or another loved one) is responsible. You didn't mean to do it; you loved her. What to do? Take her out and dump her body in the icy cold where animals might get to her? A murdering fiend might do such a thing but not someone who loved her.

So, what to do when you're in a panic? Maybe you stage a kidnapping scene with a ransom note that goes to great lengths warning that you are being watched closely and, if you contact anyone, "she dies". You call the police and immediately call friends over to help you "grieve" and confuse the whole scene...buying time so you can distance yourself from immediate and direct questioning.

If you simply call the police over claiming that your daughter has been murdered in the house, the crime scene is, immediately, sealed and you go down for immediate and separate questioning.
learnin

Greeley, KS

#14 Feb 13, 2013
Dale Fowler wrote:
You have to understand that this is a forum of a handful of wanna be sleuths. They have been here for years and do nothing more than clean each other toenails in their single wides. Yes, they are on 24/7.
What are you doing here in between sweeping up the toenails out of your single wide?
Steve Eller

United States

#15 Feb 13, 2013
The Count of Monte Cristo wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe we should start with the obvious:
The brutal murder of one's six year-old daughter, whether at the hands of an intruder, one's wife, or oneself would certainly put a damper on any travel arrangements, which, in this case, it did.
While it may not be a good idea to risk getting caught with a body in the trunk of the car, it would be a far worse idea to get caught with it in the basement of the home. Common sense notwithstanding, we already know this much since we are having this conversation.
It does not matter that Patsy could not be EXCLUDED. What matters is that she could not be INCLUDED. At best there was a 20% chance of Patsy having written the note, and an 80 to 90% chance that she did not. Ergo, the odds favor her NOT being the author of the note, to say nothing of the absurd logic of writing a ransom note, leaving the body in the basement, and calling the police.
The fact that Patsy called police and friends and relatives for help just as soon as she discovered JonBenet missing does NOT implicate her, it exonerates her. Why? Because the threat the note writer makes that JonBenet would be beheaded, should Patsy or John or anyone call police, would have given the Ramseys the latitude to wait several days, or even a month, if necessary, in order to dispose of the body. Indeed, the grave warnings suggested in the note would have conceivably allowed them enough time to bury the body in Moose Jaw, Canada before calling police. Is this registering? I hope so.
Please try to recognize the full gravity of what you just read. The evidence overwhelmingly suggests that the note was most probably written by an intruder.
One more time: THE EVIDENCE OVERWHELMINGLY SUGGESTS THAT THE NOTE WAS MOST PROBABLY WRITTEN BY AN INTRUDER.
As far as Patsy not flinching upon hearing that JonBenet was dead, I have no idea what you are talking about, for it my understanding that she let out the sort of terrible, inimitable wail that only a mother who has suddenly lost a child can vocalize.
It never ceases to amaze me how IDI proponents must INVENT their OWN facts WHOLECLOTH just to be able to post a reply. There are at least ten renowned experts who have averred that Patsy wrote the note. Your percentages like much of the information in your post is made up. The Ramseys were supposed to go Michigan that morning--funny how this is ignored-- they had no choice because they had to account for JonBenet, they could not just say that they left her behind! I am not surprised that you have no idea what I am talking about because if you could retain information effectively you would recall that Patsy's wailing came only after she saw the body. When everyone was alerted that JonBenet was found everyone rushed to see her while Patsy stayed on the couch. You are certainly entitled to your opinion but not your own facts.
Why do IDI theorists just make spit up?
Steve Eller

United States

#17 Feb 13, 2013
Anti-K wrote:
<quoted text>
To be fair, it is said that Mrs Ramsey was the only person known to be in the house who could not be eliminated as based on the handwriting. This is quite different than saying “of everyone investigated.” And, as we should all know by now (see the Thomas depo, Carnes, etc.) many (of Thomas’s 73) could not be eliminated.
If she/they couldn’t figure out how to get rid of the body, then why invest so much effort and risk into faking a kidnapping and having the police come over? Invest effort (less!!) and risk (less!!) by faking a scenario where 1) it’s reasonable for the body to be in the house (accident) and 2) side-step the police (911 for ambulance or take body to hospital). Less effort, less risk – if they can cover up, run away and escape from a murder they can cover up, run away and escape from an accident.
Why threaten yourself with beheading, etc. if you call the authorities when your plan is to call the authorities?

AK
In an interview with Larry King Steve Thomas said "one statistic that was cited in the presentation was that out of 73 people whose handwriting was examined in this case there was only one whose handwriting showed evidence to suggest authorship, who was in the home that night, who couldn't be eliminated as the author, and that was Patsy Ramsey". So basically in a country of over 300 Million you could find similar handwriting with that of Patsy that would match the ransom note. If someone was in New Hampshire on the night of the murder and their handwriting was similar it wouldn't benefit Patsy's defense.
Normal people would have conteneded that an accident had occurred but we know that normal was not the Ramseys strong suit. And it seems that there would have been repercussions and investgations into the possibiltiy of prior abuse.
The Ramseys had to leave for Michigan the next day. They could not just hide the body without anyone noticing. Time was running out and they could not risk having someone see them.
Dale Fowler

Ooltewah, TN

#22 Feb 13, 2013
ST was a total f***up and a wanna be. He had no experience and that really showed in his pathetic depo!!!! He knew nothing. What a loser he is. BPD knows that also.

Since: Feb 12

Aiea, HI

#23 Feb 13, 2013
The Count of Monte Cristo wrote:
<quoted text>
Obviously, what you and ST do not understand is that this is an utterly meaningless statistic. "Showing evidence to suggest authorship" is a lot like saying that out of 74 actresses examined, only Renee Zellweger and Joey Lauren Adams bore a fair resemblance to each other. The fact that these two actresses share certain physical similarities in appearance does is no way mean they are the same person, and only an absolute imbecile would suggest that they necessarily are the same person.
Obviously, you have been had by the Ramsey propaganda, but you are refusing to admit it. Sit back and think for a spell, and then you might realize that everyone should now be able to know that the Ramsey parents were involved in this crime.
CC
Dale Fowler

Ooltewah, TN

#24 Feb 13, 2013
Steve Eller......Please qoute Steve Thomas..........Now what did he say??? Out of how many handwriting samples 73 is it????? Go on to to finish the sentence please.
Dale Fowler

Ooltewah, TN

#25 Feb 13, 2013
OH come on Steve Eller! You can find that quote from ST book Im sure!!!! What was that quote about the handwriting???? Come on!

Since: Feb 12

Aiea, HI

#26 Feb 13, 2013
Dale Fowler wrote:
OH come on Steve Eller! You can find that quote from ST book Im sure!!!! What was that quote about the handwriting???? Come on!
Most, if not all of the handwriting experts agree that Patsy Ramsey cannot be excluded as the possible writer of the note. It is as simple as that.

Among the credible possible suspects, Patsy Ramsey is the ONLY person who cannot be eliminated as the possible writer of the Ransom note. Patsy Ramsey wrote that ransom note.
CC
Steve Eller

United States

#27 Feb 14, 2013
Bakatari wrote:
<quoted text>
Most, if not all of the handwriting experts agree that Patsy Ramsey cannot be excluded as the possible writer of the note. It is as simple as that.
Among the credible possible suspects, Patsy Ramsey is the ONLY person who cannot be eliminated as the possible writer of the Ransom note. Patsy Ramsey wrote that ransom note.
CC
Thanks Bakatari. I am surprised how so many IDI come on here and just make stuff up whole cloth and demand instant citations (to the paragraph and line) for information that is common knowledge.
Steve Eller

United States

#28 Feb 14, 2013
Dale Fowler wrote:
Have you EVER had your daughters body brought to you? Obviously not! Until you have please keep your sick thoughts to yourself. The SHIT you are posting shows you have no idea what you are talking about.
You are digusting vile spineless dork. Have you ever had the stuffing knocked out of you for making personal attacks?
Anti-K

Grande Prairie, Canada

#29 Feb 14, 2013
learnin wrote:
<quoted text>
You've got your little girl's dead body in the house and you (or another loved one) is responsible. You didn't mean to do it; you loved her. What to do? Take her out and dump her body in the icy cold where animals might get to her? A murdering fiend might do such a thing but not someone who loved her.
So, what to do when you're in a panic? Maybe you stage a kidnapping scene with a ransom note that goes to great lengths warning that you are being watched closely and, if you contact anyone, "she dies". You call the police and immediately call friends over to help you "grieve" and confuse the whole scene...buying time so you can distance yourself from immediate and direct questioning.
If you simply call the police over claiming that your daughter has been murdered in the house, the crime scene is, immediately, sealed and you go down for immediate and separate questioning.
Hi Learnin,
A day or so ago I posted a couple questions for you regarding the pineapple. Maybe you missed it? Here’s a link to the post. <1> Anyways…

I wasn’t suggesting that they could have called the police and reported a murder. That would be dumb. Although, in a way that is what theories of family involvement suggest: they committed murder, than they called the cops. Sure, they wrote this note and claimed a kidnapping, but with the cops in the house and the body in the house, what could they expect to happen? The cops were going to find that body.

The Ramseys could have simply called 911 and said there’s been an accident, send an ambulance. No police, no cord, no paintbrush, no tape, no handwriting, no linguistics, no crime scene, etc.
They could have put in the car, after she was dead, and drove to the hospital. We found her on the floor like this; she must have fell down that stupid spiral staircase. We didn’t know what to do and we couldn’t just sit there and wait for an ambulance, so we brought her in. I guess we panicked.

Panic. I’ve never been able to understand this. I don’t see any evidence of panic, by anyone, Ramsey or intruder. When you panic you don’t stop to think, in fact, you can’t think. Panic is fight-or-flight. So, where’s the evidence of panic in this crime?


AK

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