Who molested Burke & Jonbnet?

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Since: Jul 10

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#1 Jan 21, 2014
The prior sexual abuse and molestation of both Jonbenet and Burke Ramsey is THE SMOKING GUN in the unusual death of Jonbenet. There was evidence of on going abuse found in Jonbenet’s autopsy with physical changes to the female anatomy. Burke survived, was never autopsied, and his medical records were hidden from the investigation. There was evidence both Burke and Jonbenet had been in therapy and receiving some sort of psychological counseling before Jonbenet died. One therapist Burke saw after the death was a professional he had seen before the death. Burke’s pajama bottoms were found at the crime scene with feces in them, in his sister's bedroom. That is hallmark sign for young boys that have been sexually abused. It couldn’t be any more obvious had he left the home that morning bleeding from his rectum with stained pants. Children can’t articulate their feelings and emotions but their behavior reflects the truth. Children that are victims of abuse can react with violence and all sorts of unusual behaviors reflecting dysfunction and an inability to behave in socially accepted patterns.

https://www.nyspcc.org y/nyspcc/exam/course_materials /identifying_child_abuse_and_n eglect/emotional_and_behaviora l_signs_of_2/?

http://voices.yahoo.com/the-effects-sexual-ab...

The only intruder into that family’s sacred trust was the person responsible for the sexual molestation of both young Ramsey children. A person the Ramsey parents refused to consider, refused to want named, refused to even acknowledge existed. They just pretended there was no prior molestation and did all in their power to prevent the investigation from uncovering the intimate details. Jonbenet’s death is one of the most disgusting crimes imaginable. The people that should have gone out of their way to find justice for her did everything but.
Just Wondering

Beckley, WV

#2 Jan 21, 2014
I am not the victim of sexual molestation or abuse, but coming from a highly dysfunctional home, I do know that we, the children, were expected to keep anything that happened there to ourselves. We weren't even instructed to do that, we just knew. We would not have thought of discussing our family problems with others.

Consequently, I can believe that the Ramsey children could have been victims of sexual abuse. The physical evidence was there, undeniably, for Jonbenet and the behavioral symptoms were there in Burke's case. And knowing the dynamics of dysfunctional families personally, I do doubt that the children would have spoken to anyone about the abuse. Children just don't, for whatever reason discuss major family problems with others. Many times it isn't even discussed among themselves.

If none of the evidence incriminates the family--(which it does), the chronic molestation speaks volumes.

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#4 Jan 21, 2014
Just Wondering wrote:
I am not the victim of sexual molestation or abuse, but coming from a highly dysfunctional home, I do know that we, the children, were expected to keep anything that happened there to ourselves. We weren't even instructed to do that, we just knew. We would not have thought of discussing our family problems with others.
Consequently, I can believe that the Ramsey children could have been victims of sexual abuse. The physical evidence was there, undeniably, for Jonbenet and the behavioral symptoms were there in Burke's case. And knowing the dynamics of dysfunctional families personally, I do doubt that the children would have spoken to anyone about the abuse. Children just don't, for whatever reason discuss major family problems with others. Many times it isn't even discussed among themselves.
If none of the evidence incriminates the family--(which it does), the chronic molestation speaks volumes.
I agree with what you said about children keeping secrets. They keep secrets of ALL kinds; not just molestation, which is why it is entirely possible and highly likely that Burke has information that would solve this case, period. The same fears and threats that cause children to keep molestation a secret, keep other secrets a secret too.

I too, was brought up to NOT discuss personal family matters with anyone at all. What happened in the house, stayed in the house. It is not uncommon and when siblings cross a line in such a manner of molestation, it is often kept secret and in the case of a young girl of JBR's age, if anyone were to be told, she would have told her mother. I believe Patsy knew and assumed it had stopped, and maybe it had, but just in case, she was going to protect Burke at all costs

She would protect nobody else

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#5 Jan 21, 2014
I think she would 'protect' JAR if it meant keeping Burke's molestation history and subsequent problems secret.

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#6 Jan 21, 2014
moonjack wrote:
I think she would 'protect' JAR if it meant keeping Burke's molestation history and subsequent problems secret.
I have to disagree here MJ JAR would not have the love nor loyalty from Patsy that would allow her to have her children molested without there being hell to pay and certainly not a murder.

I don't think that Patsy really loved anyone more than herself, but next to that, HER children would come next and never in a million years would she allow molestation and murder to be covered up for someone ELSE'S child, especially if the victim were one of her own and the perp belonged to an EX

This is my opinion Patsy may have liked JAR well enough and may have even felt an attachment, but no way did she feel about him like she felt about her own and IMO, would NEVER have allowed that and certainly wouldn't cover up a murder for him

“If life gives you melons”

Since: Nov 06

You might be dyslexic

#8 Jan 21, 2014
moonjack wrote:
I think she would 'protect' JAR if it meant keeping Burke's molestation history and subsequent problems secret.
I don't. Blood vs Water. JAR wasn't Patsy's blood, and she would never have covered for him. I do think she would 100% cover for BR.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#9 Jan 22, 2014
I'm not saying JAR was involved in the death that night, the molestation by him of his 2 young half siblings was a catalyst for the horror of family dysfunction.

John would do all he could to protect JAR. Vicariously Patsy would have to go along. It was a win win situation, not the best term but the shoe fits.

Every expense was given to hide Burke's horrible situation which also protected JAR. To protect JAR also protected Burke's truth. Both parents pretended there was no prior molestation , they did cover it up, they give a pass to the abuser.

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#10 Jan 22, 2014
moonjack wrote:
I'm not saying JAR was involved in the death that night, the molestation by him of his 2 young half siblings was a catalyst for the horror of family dysfunction.
John would do all he could to protect JAR. Vicariously Patsy would have to go along. It was a win win situation, not the best term but the shoe fits.
Every expense was given to hide Burke's horrible situation which also protected JAR. To protect JAR also protected Burke's truth. Both parents pretended there was no prior molestation , they did cover it up, they give a pass to the abuser.
I understand and I don't believe JAR had anything to do with the murder either. I just do not believe that he was the one molesting anyone, let alone both children.

To say that Patsy would go along with the molestation to protect JAR is something we will just have to disagree about. Patsy may not have been mother of the year, but to protect someone molesting your child/children would make her the worst mother of the year and years to come!

Everyone has a theory and are free to believe the circumstances they have put forth but JAR just is not in the mix for me. I think he was a young man who lived with his mom, VISITED his dad and was congenial to his dad's new family. I don't think it was more than that, nor do I think Patsy had much more than a cordial relationship with John's children. Knowing Patsy's personality, I would think that she spent most of her time planting seeds and information for them to take home to Melinda and showing them how wonderful THEIR family was.

I believe Burke had "issues" (I'll leave it at that) and he was the one molesting JBR and I believe that "whatever" was wrong with him (and there was definitely something wrong with him) was the catalyst for what happened that night and many incidents before. I don't believe anyone else had the kind of private, access time to JBR that they would need to be molesting her regularly. Only three people had that type of access and I do not believe it was John and I don't believe it was Patsy so we will just have to agree to disagree on this one
Just Wondering

Beckley, WV

#11 Jan 22, 2014
Capricorn wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree with what you said about children keeping secrets. They keep secrets of ALL kinds; not just molestation, which is why it is entirely possible and highly likely that Burke has information that would solve this case, period. The same fears and threats that cause children to keep molestation a secret, keep other secrets a secret too.
I too, was brought up to NOT discuss personal family matters with anyone at all. What happened in the house, stayed in the house. It is not uncommon and when siblings cross a line in such a manner of molestation, it is often kept secret and in the case of a young girl of JBR's age, if anyone were to be told, she would have told her mother. I believe Patsy knew and assumed it had stopped, and maybe it had, but just in case, she was going to protect Burke at all costs
She would protect nobody else
Absolutely.
Just Wondering

Beckley, WV

#12 Jan 22, 2014
For anyone who might be reluctant to think that Patsy would stage a cover-up for Burke, think again.

I personally know of a family whose young teenage son impregnated his preteen sister. The unborn baby would have been aborted, but instead the girl stood her ground and put the child up for adoption. The son was sent off to live with relatives in another state.

That happened just two years ago and now the mother is urging the family to welcome the son back into the home where her young daughter is still living. So, it is not ludicrous to think that Patsy would protect her son after Jonbenet's death..

“WAX ON”

Since: Jul 10

WAX OFF

#13 Jan 22, 2014
Stellar post JW, and a perfect example of parents and the unconditional love and blind actions of a mother.
Just Wondering wrote:
For anyone who might be reluctant to think that Patsy would stage a cover-up for Burke, think again.
I personally know of a family whose young teenage son impregnated his preteen sister. The unborn baby would have been aborted, but instead the girl stood her ground and put the child up for adoption. The son was sent off to live with relatives in another state.
That happened just two years ago and now the mother is urging the family to welcome the son back into the home where her young daughter is still living. So, it is not ludicrous to think that Patsy would protect her son after Jonbenet's death..

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#14 Jan 22, 2014
Just Wondering wrote:
For anyone who might be reluctant to think that Patsy would stage a cover-up for Burke, think again.
I personally know of a family whose young teenage son impregnated his preteen sister. The unborn baby would have been aborted, but instead the girl stood her ground and put the child up for adoption. The son was sent off to live with relatives in another state.
That happened just two years ago and now the mother is urging the family to welcome the son back into the home where her young daughter is still living. So, it is not ludicrous to think that Patsy would protect her son after Jonbenet's death..
These things happen way more often than we would like to think

I believe Patsy was covering for her son and that by itself, whether I think it would be a wise decision or not (it doesn't matter what I think in this case), I thought it noble and devoted INITIALLY

I can understand a mother wanting to protect her son, especially after losing her other child and find it touching if not a good decision and would be prepared to defend her for doing it, EXCEPT

Once their "protection" involved putting others into the fray in such a negative way by throwing everyone under the bus, starting with Merrick and LHP, the nobility and understanding went right out the window into no sympathy whatsoever

Parents have the right to make bad decisions but NOT at the expense of other INNOCENT people

For that, the Ramseys can never get what they really deserve!

“If life gives you melons”

Since: Nov 06

You might be dyslexic

#16 Jan 22, 2014
Just Wondering wrote:
For anyone who might be reluctant to think that Patsy would stage a cover-up for Burke, think again.
I personally know of a family whose young teenage son impregnated his preteen sister. The unborn baby would have been aborted, but instead the girl stood her ground and put the child up for adoption. The son was sent off to live with relatives in another state.
That happened just two years ago and now the mother is urging the family to welcome the son back into the home where her young daughter is still living. So, it is not ludicrous to think that Patsy would protect her son after Jonbenet's death..
Correct, because it was HER SON. I doubt the same would have happened if it were her stepson vs her own daughter. No doubt Patsy would cover for a son she gave birth to. No way in He11 would she cover for a stepson that either molested or killed the daughter she gave birth to.

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#17 Jan 22, 2014
Legal__Eagle wrote:
<quoted text>
Correct, because it was HER SON. I doubt the same would have happened if it were her stepson vs her own daughter. No doubt Patsy would cover for a son she gave birth to. No way in He11 would she cover for a stepson that either molested or killed the daughter she gave birth to.
Well hello there LE :)

If you give it some thought, the mere fact that they/he/she would COVER for anyone, whether it be family or a stranger, at the end of the day, COVERING for anyone, all the while allowing not only resources that are needed elsewhere to be wasted, and have also RUINED INNOCENT LIVES in that process, does not lessen the crime that THEY committed TOGETHER in doing so.

What does that translate to? GUILTY WITH AN EXPLANATION?

No matter who they were covering for, and IMO, it could only be Burke, what they have put others through to accomplish that, is unforgivable and about as low as it gets! Covering for someone and allowing others to suffer is worthy of all the disdain one can muster for them and those who supported the farce! "Good" people my foot!!!!
real Topaz

AOL

#18 Jan 22, 2014
Hi moonjack:D
I'm not entirely convinced that BR was molested by anyone. I have researched the subject of brother molesting sister and found that it could very well be an acting out on BR's part for not getting what he needed from his mother at a crucial age. I do know something about this subject on a personal level and have to agree with the shrink world because my brother attempted to molest me as a child and he himself was not previously molested but completely ignored by our birth mother until he was taken away at the age of 3. Long story short, IF BR was the culprit, doesn't mean he was molested but rather neglected during his development.
moonjack wrote:
The prior sexual abuse and molestation of both Jonbenet and Burke Ramsey is THE SMOKING GUN in the unusual death of Jonbenet. There was evidence of on going abuse found in Jonbenet’s autopsy with physical changes to the female anatomy. Burke survived, was never autopsied, and his medical records were hidden from the investigation. There was evidence both Burke and Jonbenet had been in therapy and receiving some sort of psychological counseling before Jonbenet died. One therapist Burke saw after the death was a professional he had seen before the death. Burke’s pajama bottoms were found at the crime scene with feces in them, in his sister's bedroom. That is hallmark sign for young boys that have been sexually abused. It couldn’t be any more obvious had he left the home that morning bleeding from his rectum with stained pants. Children can’t articulate their feelings and emotions but their behavior reflects the truth. Children that are victims of abuse can react with violence and all sorts of unusual behaviors reflecting dysfunction and an inability to behave in socially accepted patterns.
https://www.nyspcc.org y/nyspcc/exam/course_materials /identifying_child_abuse_and_n eglect/emotional_and_behaviora l_signs_of_2/?
http://voices.yahoo.com/the-effects-sexual-ab...
The only intruder into that family’s sacred trust was the person responsible for the sexual molestation of both young Ramsey children. A person the Ramsey parents refused to consider, refused to want named, refused to even acknowledge existed. They just pretended there was no prior molestation and did all in their power to prevent the investigation from uncovering the intimate details. Jonbenet’s death is one of the most disgusting crimes imaginable. The people that should have gone out of their way to find justice for her did everything but.

“If life gives you melons”

Since: Nov 06

You might be dyslexic

#19 Jan 22, 2014
real Topaz wrote:
Hi moonjack:D
I'm not entirely convinced that BR was molested by anyone. I have researched the subject of brother molesting sister and found that it could very well be an acting out on BR's part for not getting what he needed from his mother at a crucial age. I do know something about this subject on a personal level and have to agree with the shrink world because my brother attempted to molest me as a child and he himself was not previously molested but completely ignored by our birth mother until he was taken away at the age of 3. Long story short, IF BR was the culprit, doesn't mean he was molested but rather neglected during his development.
<quoted text>
I totally agree with everything in this post RT, and I am not convinced BR was molested by anyone either. It sounds much more like neglect than abuse. He was at a really critical age when PR had cancer and she couldn't be the mother any child needed at that time. I seriously doubt that Nedra was very hands on in helping with the kids either other than barking orders, She has always seemed very standoffish to me, and not the warm and fuzzy personality the kids needed.
whodatninja

Pleasant Hill, CA

#20 Jan 25, 2014
A friend of mine in college told me that his mother essentially gave his sister to his father for sex because she herself didn't want to have sex with the guy anymore. I thought about this when I read about the enormous diamond Patsy started sporting in the summer of '95 (or was it '96). It would explain a lot....
FoolsGold

Lehigh Acres, FL

#21 Jan 27, 2014
Burke: No one ever molested Burke Ramsey.
JonBenet: Her killer molested her for the first time, that night.

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#22 Jan 28, 2014
FoolsGold wrote:
Burke: No one ever molested Burke Ramsey.
JonBenet: Her killer molested her for the first time, that night.
Again, HALF right

To be fair, there is no evidence at all that Burke was ever the victim of molestation. He had some issues but there is no evidence to support molestation as being the reason he was an "odd", for lack of a better word, child

JBR, on the other hand, was molested prior to that night and that is something that will never go away because SOMEONE molested her prior to that night. The EVIDENCE shows that

Denial doesn't change the reality

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#23 Jan 28, 2014
There was plenty of stress in the lives of the Ramsey children. From a dead half sibling to a cancer stricken mother any symptoms of Post Traumatic Stress would not be unusual. PTSD does indeed include the symptom of regressed toileting issues such as displayed by both Burke and Jonbenet.

BUT

Jonbenet’s autopsy showed previous sexual molestation with healing injuries, an eroded hymen, and an enlarged opening indicative of previous manipulation. On the right labia majora there was a ‘violet discoloration (bruise), the coroner cut into and he found no blood because it was a healing injury, a fresh bruise would have some blood associated with it. There is an obvious chance the kids were leaving their fecal droppings because of different psychological reasons but a bigger chance it was for the same reason, sexual molestation and incest.

ALSO

Don’t forget JAR was also a victim of PTSD. He lost Beth too and not only did he suffer the proverbial disaster of his parent’s divorce and a broken family but he was saddled with the pretentious ‘flashy’ Patsy as a step mother. There was a high propensity for anger and rage and a host of bad behaviors such as ‘molesting’ his half siblings.

If encopresis were a common symptom for children whose mother’s have cancer it would be a much bigger problem. There would all manner of child size diapers at the supermarket and non-profit organizations doing fund raising events to alleviate the situation.

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