The set up questions
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BrotherMoon

Arvada, CO

#1 Nov 12, 2013
The "set up" as Patsy called it was the bowl of pineapple with a spoon next to a glass with a tea bag in it on a table in the home.

1. Was the "set up" put together (as found) before JonBenet died?

2. Was the "set up'(as found) the source of the pineapple found in JonBenet's proximal intestine at autopsy?

Since: Oct 08

Location hidden

#2 Nov 12, 2013
BrotherMoon wrote:
The "set up" as Patsy called it was the bowl of pineapple with a spoon next to a glass with a tea bag in it on a table in the home.
1. Was the "set up" put together (as found) before JonBenet died?
2. Was the "set up'(as found) the source of the pineapple found in JonBenet's proximal intestine at autopsy?
These items could be unrelated and have been placed separately and even hours apart. For instance, the bowl and pineapple could have been set out before the Ramseys went to the Whites, the glass could have been set down after they returned, the tea bag could have been placed into the glass from pot or cup sometime the following day.

Or, they could all be of a piece. How can we know?
...

AK
Rupert

Waterloo, Canada

#3 Nov 12, 2013
Yes, it could have been anything. But Patsy did say it was not her set up. She wouldn't set it up like that.

Key thing is that the Ramseys both adamantly said they did not feed JonBenet pineapple that night, yet there appears to be pineapple in her stomach. At first it appears they are lying. On the other hand, if it was the intruder why would he do it? Well, it would surely be discovered at autopsy. That would certainly put the Ramsey's testimony into a suspicious contradiction. What does that tell you about the hypothetical intruder? Well, he would obviously know something about autopsies and know that her stomach contents would eventually be examined. Per BrotherMoon's theory, he also might know about Patsy's bid for the Miss US pageant and her recitation of the Prime of Miss Jean Brody. Sandy certainly liked her pineapple in cream at tea time. Perhaps the hypothetical intruder killed JonBenet because he didn't like the way Patsy was prepping JonBenet for the same thing. After all, Patsy knew the cancer could easily come back and she wanted to live life to the fullest with her little girl. With all that money the costumes did get pretty fancy and her hair was lightened too.

Perhaps we will see who felt that way when the GJ testimony is published. You know, if they release one part of the GJ, they got to release all of it. No more of those selective leaks. It's all got to come out.

Rupe
BrotherMoon

Arvada, CO

#4 Nov 13, 2013
We can't know but we can guess. It is logical to consider the set up put together as found before JonBenet died and she got the pineapple she ate from that set up. I think most logically it was put together as found before JonBenet died.
BrotherMoon

Arvada, CO

#5 Nov 18, 2013
So the "set up" as found was most likely the source of the pineapple JonBenet ate and most likely was put together before she died.
The investigators speculated that both parents used books and movies as source material to stage a crime after and accident not being criminals themselves.
The question is: Why was the "set up", which matches a scene from a book, put together BEFORE JonBenet died?
BrotherMoon

Arvada, CO

#6 Nov 18, 2013
"Sandy Stranger had a feeling at the time that they were supposed to be the happiest days of her life, and on her tenth birthday she said so to her best friend Jenny Gray who had been asked to TEA at Sandy's house. The speciality of the feast was PINEAPPLE CUBES WITH CREAM, and the speciality of the day was that they were left to themselves. To Sandy the unfamiliar PINEAPPLE had the authentic taste and appearance of happiness and she focussed her small eyes closely on the pale gold cubes before she scooped them up in her SPOON, and she ... Both girls saved the CREAM to the last, then ate it in SPOONFULS."

Since: Nov 13

Location hidden

#7 Nov 29, 2013
1. Was the "set up" put together (as found) before JonBenet died?

There is no way to know, and no way to make a guess that is anything more than a coin flip.

2. Was the "set up'(as found) the source of the pineapple found in JonBenet's proximal intestine at autopsy?

If you mean did she eat from the set up exactly as it was found on the morning of the 26th, we simply don't know. We don't even know if the friends and neighbors called to the home messed with the set up.

We know she probably didn't eat pineapple at the Whites, and so she must have eaten it at home.

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#9 Nov 29, 2013
The set up at this point means nothing unless one is to believe that an intruder took out the dishes and prepared it all and left Patsy and Burke's prints on it after wiping his own prints. Had the intruder been wearing gloves, chances are the other prints would have been wiped off after handling as well

That's pretty good wiping to know which ones to leave and which ones to wipe down! He was able to leave TWO sets of prints That's some pretty fine skills

The intruder also had to know how Burke liked his tea

The set up is not as important as it is made out to be.

The point is that she was awake at some point and eating pineapple

We can believe that it was fed to her by an intruder in the middle of the night or we can believe she had that pineapple while she was awake and with her family before she died

I go with the latter

Since: Dec 09

Location hidden

#10 Nov 29, 2013
Patsy intentionally killing JonBenet is the lamest theory so weak it's a joke. If Patsy needed to sacrifice a child she would have picked a neighbor girl or invited one of the candy sellers inside for the deed.

Since: Oct 08

Location hidden

#11 Nov 29, 2013
Capricorn wrote:
The set up at this point means nothing unless one is to believe that an intruder took out the dishes and prepared it all and left Patsy and Burke's prints on it after wiping his own prints. Had the intruder been wearing gloves, chances are the other prints would have been wiped off after handling as well
That's pretty good wiping to know which ones to leave and which ones to wipe down! He was able to leave TWO sets of prints That's some pretty fine skills
The intruder also had to know how Burke liked his tea
The set up is not as important as it is made out to be.
The point is that she was awake at some point and eating pineapple
We can believe that it was fed to her by an intruder in the middle of the night or we can believe she had that pineapple while she was awake and with her family before she died
I go with the latter
Or, we can believe she ate that pineapple when no one was around.
The bowl and pineapple could have been set out before the Ramseys went to the Whites, the glass could have been set down after they returned, and the tea bag could have been placed into the glass from a teapot or cup sometime the following day.

So far, none of these items, nor the ingestion of pineapple have been shown to be connected to the murder.
...

AK

Since: Nov 13

Location hidden

#13 Dec 2, 2013
Anti-K wrote:
<quoted text>
Or, we can believe she ate that pineapple when no one was around.
The bowl and pineapple could have been set out before the Ramseys went to the Whites, the glass could have been set down after they returned, and the tea bag could have been placed into the glass from a teapot or cup sometime the following day.
So far, none of these items, nor the ingestion of pineapple have been shown to be connected to the murder.
...
AK
Bravo.

Since: Nov 13

Location hidden

#14 Dec 2, 2013
Capricorn wrote:
The set up at this point means nothing unless one is to believe that an intruder took out the dishes and prepared it all and left Patsy and Burke's prints on it after wiping his own prints. Had the intruder been wearing gloves, chances are the other prints would have been wiped off after handling as well
That's pretty good wiping to know which ones to leave and which ones to wipe down! He was able to leave TWO sets of prints That's some pretty fine skills
The intruder also had to know how Burke liked his tea
The set up is not as important as it is made out to be.
The point is that she was awake at some point and eating pineapple
We can believe that it was fed to her by an intruder in the middle of the night or we can believe she had that pineapple while she was awake and with her family before she died
I go with the latter
Also Bravo.

All we know about the pineapple is that she ate some. We don't know that either Patsy or John knew that she ate any pineapple. We don't know that it is in anyway connected to any event leading to the murder.

What we can reasonably infer is that if both JR and PR knew she ate pineapple it would be incorporated into the story they told the police.

Either they were both ignorant of JB having pineapple after coming home from the party, or one knew and the other did not. If the one who knew, knew if for all the wrong reasons, he/she wouldn't be able to let on.

Since: Nov 13

Location hidden

#15 Dec 2, 2013
I wish there were a way to edit. I'm taking back my "Bravo" to Capricorn. I like what you said about the intruder knowing what prints to wipe, but then you assume it had to be an intruder, or with the family. No reason for it to be either.

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#16 Dec 2, 2013
Delta88 wrote:
I wish there were a way to edit. I'm taking back my "Bravo" to Capricorn. I like what you said about the intruder knowing what prints to wipe, but then you assume it had to be an intruder, or with the family. No reason for it to be either.
Ah geez, now you've ruined my day, retracting your bravo LOL

I am not quite sure what you mean by no reason for it to be either. SOMEONE took out the pineapple and the set up. Like the flashlight with NO fingerprints, had there been NO fingerprints on the setup, that would be suspicious also.

After all, the Ramseys lived there and while they didn't anticipate the pineapple bugaboo ruining their timeline and story about her being fast asleep despite Burke's statement, having their fingerprints on anything in the house is to be expected

The fact that there are ONLY Burke's and Patsy's prints on the set up shows that if an "intruder" had provided the set up, either he/she wiped down their own prints and were somehow able to leave the Ramsey prints or there was NO intruder

They didn't figure on the pineapple being a thorn in their timeline and story.

Since: Nov 13

Location hidden

#17 Dec 2, 2013
Capricorn wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah geez, now you've ruined my day, retracting your bravo LOL
I am not quite sure what you mean by no reason for it to be either. SOMEONE took out the pineapple and the set up. Like the flashlight with NO fingerprints, had there been NO fingerprints on the setup, that would be suspicious also.
After all, the Ramseys lived there and while they didn't anticipate the pineapple bugaboo ruining their timeline and story about her being fast asleep despite Burke's statement, having their fingerprints on anything in the house is to be expected
The fact that there are ONLY Burke's and Patsy's prints on the set up shows that if an "intruder" had provided the set up, either he/she wiped down their own prints and were somehow able to leave the Ramsey prints or there was NO intruder
They didn't figure on the pineapple being a thorn in their timeline and story.
What I mean is just what anti-K said. The set up could be there from earlier in the day. JB might have just snitched a few pieces from the bowl without anyone knowing about it and w/o touching the bowl.

There's no doubt someone in the family did the set up. But what time of day, and who was present at the "pineapple party" can't be known.

I agree about the intruder, as far as wiping the prints. But she could have eaten it by herself as anti-K suggests. So we can't really eliminate the intruder (not that we have to take IDI seriously, but we can't eliminate it based on lack of prints)

To me the important thing about this "bugaboo" is that it wouldn't mess up the R's timeline if both of them knew she had pineapple. They just say she had pineapple then went to bed, then the boogeyman came in the middle of the night, yada yada.

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#18 Dec 2, 2013
Delta88 wrote:
<quoted text>
.....To me the important thing about this "bugaboo" is that it wouldn't mess up the R's timeline if both of them knew she had pineapple. They just say she had pineapple then went to bed, then the boogeyman came in the middle of the night, yada yada.
You are correct. IF IF IF and that is a big IF, they were aware that the pineapple would be an issue on any level

I believe the pineapple was not considered in light of all the other things they DID have to consider

Otherwise you would be exactly right; they came home, she grabbed a piece of pineapple and went right to bed, yada yada.

Since: Nov 13

Location hidden

#19 Dec 2, 2013
Capricorn wrote:
<quoted text>
You are correct. IF IF IF and that is a big IF, they were aware that the pineapple would be an issue on any level
I believe the pineapple was not considered in light of all the other things they DID have to consider
Otherwise you would be exactly right; they came home, she grabbed a piece of pineapple and went right to bed, yada yada.
Well, I can't disagree in general. It's certainly possible they just didn't consider the pineapple. They'd have to have considered an autopsy but maybe didn't realize the intestinal contents could be identified.

But I don't think it's such a big IF. Especially IF Burke were at the table eating pineapple too. There's always the chance he'd say to someone that JB was eating pineapple with him and his mom (and maybe dad too)

If John and Patsy were both in on the coverup why not just go over everything, keeping the story as true as possible so there's no slip ups?

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#20 Dec 2, 2013
Delta88 wrote:
<quoted text>
....If John and Patsy were both in on the coverup why not just go over everything, keeping the story as true as possible so there's no slip ups?
I'm sure they did just that. However, given the amount of time to review and review initially, they couldn't take a chance on being questioned very much and especially individually.

With four months of study time, they could do a better job with more confidence and even then, they had to be interviewed together as well as any talk shows or interviews. They were always together and it made it much easier not to slip up.

Again, I don't believe Patsy and John had any fears that Burke would go to prison or otherwise be held legally or "criminally" responsible but the stigma attached to what he had done would be there forever
Delta88

United States

#21 Dec 2, 2013
Capricorn wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sure they did just that. However, given the amount of time to review and review initially, they couldn't take a chance on being questioned very much and especially individually.
With four months of study time, they could do a better job with more confidence and even then, they had to be interviewed together as well as any talk shows or interviews. They were always together and it made it much easier not to slip up.
Again, I don't believe Patsy and John had any fears that Burke would go to prison or otherwise be held legally or "criminally" responsible but the stigma attached to what he had done would be there forever
OK, maybe they just took the simple lie - she went straight to bed, then we woke up......etc. Certainly possible.
Again, I don't believe Patsy and John had any fears that Burke would go to prison or otherwise be held legally or "criminally" responsible but the stigma attached to what he had done would be there forever
I don't think they had any fear of BR going to jail either because they'd have been tipped off on that if there were late night calls to lawyers. If there were no late night calls, or the calls weren't to lawyers, or they were calls to tax attorneys, they'd have been informed by the next day or two, when they had criminal lawyers lined up, and they'd have stopped quick marching themselves towards indictment.

IF it was BDI then their choice is the stigma of a childhood accident vs the stigma of indictment, of the adults, on serious charges. The only way BDI works is if the Ramseys received some sort of "guarantee" over the phone that they wouldn't be prosecuted. But that presupposes they talked with criminal lawyers/prosecutors which means they knew BR couldn't be charged.

So in the end, the adults let people believe they killed their daughter to save the family the embarrassment of one child killing the other in an "accident" (It could be passed off as accidental even if Burke hit her deliberately) As I said in a prior post, BDI always trades one public shame for another, usually one that's even worse. Just does not make sense.

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#22 Dec 2, 2013
In the end, the adults don't go to prison, the son doesn't have any stigmata "officially", and they figured that there would be no shame at all and that they would go to Atlanta and be victims of a tragedy

Only as little bits and pieces of evidence showing the "inner circle" as a stronger possibility, yes, they were forced to trade one public shame for another.

They didn't plan on it, but when push came to shove, their only alternative would be to throw their son under the bus and STILL face jail time for being accessories, obstruction, etc. They still wouldn't be off scott free and all would be lost with all three paying the price for what happened that night

Because the case went in the opposite direction than assumed, regarding the scrutiny by the public and other interested parties, they were forced to take the lessest of all the evils that faced them.

Even with all their wealth and corruption, they couldn't buy off the public's outcry and continuing perseverance throughout the years

They certainly couldn't do it with their words, written and verbal so there was no solution other than the solution they chose as they went along

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