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#375
Oct 19, 2013
 

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Fr_Brown wrote:
<quoted text>
The excerpt from Foster's report stops just before his comments about the phrase "deviation of my instructions." I have never heard someone say "deviation OF my instructions" and it appears nowhere else in print (that I can find, anyway). People say and write "deviation from" unless they're talking statistics. I know Foster considers this phrase to be important.
My view of Patsy continues to evolve. Foster, according to Thomas, said that the note exhibited instances of clever and sophisticated wordplay.(I'm paraphrasing.) Would someone like that really expect the police to be fooled by "small foreign faction," "bussiness" and "posession"? Surely having burned through multiple drafts, a clever writer would have come up with something more convincing. If she wanted to.
Since I don't believe Patsy planned this in advance, I have to give her...credit? When it comes to the ransom letter, she showed a lot of composure just getting it done.

For the sake of argument, bear with me:

After a busy Thanksgiving-to-Christmas season, complete with shopping, travel, performance and pageant activities for JonBenet, usual schedules like school and Boy Scouts for both kids, multiple parties for Patsy, John's company, family, and friends, Christmas Day excitement, preparing for yet another 2 trips right up until bedtime that night, she's presented with an all night, worst-case scenario for any parent.

Again, imagine if you will, that Patsy's precious pageant princess has just had her skull cracked in half, and the stressful issue of the ongoing sexual abuse Patsy's been (obviously) mishandling for some period of time before this is again front-and-center as part of a now seemingly insurmountable nightmare: what to do, what to do?

One more element is critical: the clock is ticking. With the pilot planning take-off around 7 a.m.; with the Big Kids flying to Minnesota and expecting the Ramseys to pick them up a few hours later; with Burke there and not many ways to hide the devastation of what's really going on from him for long without risking him spilling the beans himself at some point after the phone starts ringing; and realizing that very soon there will no longer be a way to delay the inevitable issue of "Where's JonBenet?": I personally cannot imagine how Patsy came up with the plan she did.

The woman was a criminal genius.

I can't fathom the bizarre and distorted thinking that went on in the house that night. I do believe there was "help" of some kind, via cell phone. And I do believe it was the Ramsey money and influence that resulted in the obstruction of the investigation that kept their dirty little secrets from surfacing long enough to give Hunter time to destroy the case from the D.A's Office end of it.

So I can't say why Patsy wrote what she did in that note, just that the language and handwriting analysis leads me to believe she wrote it. I can speculate based on logic and reason, but considering the circumstances as I've presented them in the above scenario, there are too many factors and unknowns for me argue too hard with logic and reason about the thinking behind it, word for word.

I've certainly dissected it, as have we all, down to the punctuation and letter format. But it will forever remain and enigma unless John Ramsey decides to put this mystery to rest. I won't hold my breath.

Otherwise, there's no rational, 100% correct explanation for it because that night was pure, controlled insanity, IMO.

That's what I think the letter represents.

Just my opinion, of course.

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#376
Oct 19, 2013
 

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Fr_Brown wrote:
<quoted text>
The excerpt from Foster's report stops just before his comments about the phrase "deviation of my instructions." I have never heard someone say "deviation OF my instructions" and it appears nowhere else in print (that I can find, anyway). People say and write "deviation from" unless they're talking statistics. I know Foster considers this phrase to be important.
My view of Patsy continues to evolve. Foster, according to Thomas, said that the note exhibited instances of clever and sophisticated wordplay.(I'm paraphrasing.) Would someone like that really expect the police to be fooled by "small foreign faction," "bussiness" and "posession"? Surely having burned through multiple drafts, a clever writer would have come up with something more convincing. If she wanted to.
Since I don't believe Patsy planned this in advance, I have to give her...credit? When it comes to the ransom letter, she showed a lot of composure just getting it done.

For the sake of argument, bear with me:

After a busy Thanksgiving-to-Christmas season, complete with shopping, travel, performance and pageant activities for JonBenet, usual schedules like school and Boy Scouts for both kids, multiple parties for Patsy, John's company, family, and friends, Christmas Day excitement, preparing for yet another 2 trips right up until bedtime that night, she's presented with an all night, worst-case scenario for any parent.

Again, imagine if you will, that Patsy's precious pageant princess has just had her skull cracked in half, and the stressful issue of the ongoing sexual abuse Patsy's been (obviously) mishandling for some period of time before this is again front-and-center as part of a now seemingly insurmountable nightmare: what to do, what to do?

One more element is critical: the clock is ticking. Consider the pressure in play: with the pilot planning take-off around 7 a.m.; with the Big Kids flying to Minnesota and expecting the Ramseys to pick them up a few hours later; with Burke there and not many ways to hide the devastation of what's really going on from him for long without risking him spilling the beans himself at some point after the phone starts ringing; and realizing that very soon there will no longer be a way to delay the inevitable issue of "Where's JonBenet?"

Now write a ransom letter. I personally cannot imagine how Patsy came up with the plan she did.

The woman was a criminal genius.

I'm just an ordinary person. So I can't fathom the bizarre and distorted thinking that went on in the house that night. I do believe there was "help" of some kind, via cell phone. And I do believe it was the Ramsey money and influence that resulted in the obstruction of the investigation, which kept the Ramsey's dirty little secrets from surfacing long enough to give Hunter time to destroy the case from the D.A's Office end of it.

Yet I can't say why Patsy wrote what she did in that note, just that the language and handwriting analysis leads me to believe she wrote it. I can speculate based on logic and reason; I've certainly dissected it, as have we all, down to the punctuation and letter format.

But it will forever remain an enigma unless John Ramsey decides to put this mystery to rest. I won't hold my breath.

Otherwise, there's no rational, 100% correct explanation for it because that night was pure, controlled insanity, IMO.

That's what I think the letter represents.

Just my opinion, of course.

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#377
Oct 19, 2013
 

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Well, crap. Topix first sent me back to the thread list page like my post didn't get posted. I figured as much because...well...slow writer.

So I went through it and edited it one more time while trying to post it again before the time-out feature kicked in.

And now here they both are. lol

My apologies for the double post. Oh, my horse for an edit feature!

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#378
Oct 19, 2013
 

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koldkase wrote:
Since I don't believe Patsy planned this in advance, I have to give her...credit? When it comes to the ransom letter, she showed a lot of composure just getting it done.
For the sake of argument, bear with me:
After a busy Thanksgiving-to-Christmas season, complete with shopping, travel, performance and pageant activities for JonBenet, usual schedules like school and Boy Scouts for both kids, multiple parties for Patsy, John's company, family, and friends, Christmas Day excitement, preparing for yet another 2 trips right up until bedtime that night, she's presented with an all night, worst-case scenario for any parent.
Again, imagine if you will, that Patsy's precious pageant princess has just had her skull cracked in half, and the stressful issue of the ongoing sexual abuse Patsy's been (obviously) mishandling for some period of time before this is again front-and-center as part of a now seemingly insurmountable nightmare: what to do, what to do?
One more element is critical: the clock is ticking. Consider the pressure in play: with the pilot planning take-off around 7 a.m.; with the Big Kids flying to Minnesota and expecting the Ramseys to pick them up a few hours later; with Burke there and not many ways to hide the devastation of what's really going on from him for long without risking him spilling the beans himself at some point after the phone starts ringing; and realizing that very soon there will no longer be a way to delay the inevitable issue of "Where's JonBenet?"
Now write a ransom letter. I personally cannot imagine how Patsy came up with the plan she did.
The woman was a criminal genius.
I'm just an ordinary person. So I can't fathom the bizarre and distorted thinking that went on in the house that night. I do believe there was "help" of some kind, via cell phone. And I do believe it was the Ramsey money and influence that resulted in the obstruction of the investigation, which kept the Ramsey's dirty little secrets from surfacing long enough to give Hunter time to destroy the case from the D.A's Office end of it.
Yet I can't say why Patsy wrote what she did in that note, just that the language and handwriting analysis leads me to believe she wrote it. I can speculate based on logic and reason; I've certainly dissected it, as have we all, down to the punctuation and letter format.
But it will forever remain an enigma unless John Ramsey decides to put this mystery to rest. I won't hold my breath.
Otherwise, there's no rational, 100% correct explanation for it because that night was pure, controlled insanity, IMO.
That's what I think the letter represents.
Just my opinion, of course.
Well, that's why I'd like to see Foster's report--for insight into what was going through her mind when she was writing the note(s). At least one of the pad's missing middle pages was a quickly-jettisoned practice note; the page before the practice note was probably also a draft of the ransom note (deduced by bleed-through onto the final note). It's not too much of a stretch to think that the seven pages before that were also drafts. What was she striving for?

I don't think that "deviation of" was intentional.(The movie _Ruthless People's_ ransom note says "deviation from.") But if it was unconscious, where does it come from? Is it a West Virginia regionalism?

I agree about the stress on Patsy. She was doing everything; John was spending quality time with his airplane.

“Sandy Stranger killed JonBenet”

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#379
Oct 19, 2013
 

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koldkase wrote:
My apologies for the double post.
You should apologize for the first.

“Sandy Stranger killed JonBenet”

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#380
Oct 19, 2013
 

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Fr_Brown wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, that's why I'd like to see Foster's report--for insight into what was going through her mind when she was writing the note(s). At least one of the pad's missing middle pages was a quickly-jettisoned practice note; the page before the practice note was probably also a draft of the ransom note (deduced by bleed-through onto the final note). It's not too much of a stretch to think that the seven pages before that were also drafts. What was she striving for?
I don't think that "deviation of" was intentional.(The movie _Ruthless People's_ ransom note says "deviation from.") But if it was unconscious, where does it come from? Is it a West Virginia regionalism?
I agree about the stress on Patsy. She was doing everything; John was spending quality time with his airplane.
That is one of the best posts ever on this case.

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#381
Oct 20, 2013
 
Fr_Brown wrote:
Well, that's why I'd like to see Foster's report--for insight into what was going through her mind when she was writing the note(s). At least one of the pad's missing middle pages was a quickly-jettisoned practice note; the page before the practice note was probably also a draft of the ransom note (deduced by bleed-through onto the final note). It's not too much of a stretch to think that the seven pages before that were also drafts. What was she striving for?
I don't think that "deviation of" was intentional.(The movie _Ruthless People's_ ransom note says "deviation from.") But if it was unconscious, where does it come from? Is it a West Virginia regionalism?
I agree about the stress on Patsy. She was doing everything; John was spending quality time with his airplane.
Correction: The ransom demand in _Ruthless People_ was a ransom phone call, not a note and the phrase was "deviate from."

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#382
Oct 20, 2013
 
BrotherMoon wrote:
That is one of the best posts ever on this case.
Thanks?

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#383
Oct 20, 2013
 

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BrotherMoon wrote:
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You should apologize for the first.
I'm not going to argue with you, Brother Moon.

I have no desire to hurt you.

I wish you well.

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#384
Oct 20, 2013
 

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I wrote a long, disappeared post about using Google Ngram Viewer to find instances of the phrase "countermeasures and tactics" and discovering that it started appearing in books in the late 70s--books about warfare almost exclusively. I did find one non-warfare book,_The Counter-terrorism Handbook_ by Frank Bolz in which that phrase occurred as in "law enforcement...countermeasures and tactics." There's also mention of an attache case and the words "monitor" (and "situation") occur frequently. There are references to electronic devices. I was only able to search a later edition so I don't know if all of these are in the 1992 version.

The book is intended for agencies public and private so the Ramseys might have owned it. Some general (or something) suggested on Fox that every captain of industry have a copy.

I didn't see a mention of this book on any other JonBenet forum so I'm throwing it in here.

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#385
Oct 20, 2013
 

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...And the book has multiple references to terrorist "factions." Left that out of the list.

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#386
Oct 20, 2013
 
koldkase wrote:
I have no desire to hurt you.
I wish you well.
Koldkase, because you're not ego-driven (and you're intelligent), you're my favorite poster. I don't necessarily agree with you all the time, but your arguments are intended to persuade rather than crush the opposition.

I look forward to reading topix when I see you've posted here.

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#387
Oct 21, 2013
 

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Fr_Brown wrote:
<quoted text>
Koldkase, because you're not ego-driven (and you're intelligent), you're my favorite poster. I don't necessarily agree with you all the time, but your arguments are intended to persuade rather than crush the opposition.
I look forward to reading topix when I see you've posted here.
Gosh. Thanks for this. But I must confess I've done my share of forum fighting. At some point it just gets old, though. I guess that's age catching up to me.

As for differences, are there two people who have the exact same theory? lol

I came here to find this thread again to tell you what a great idea you've had to run the ransom note terms and phrases through that Google program. I'd never heard of it before, but checked it out, and it is quite interesting what comes up.

Since John Ramsey's then-company, Lockheed Martin, is an international defense contractor with massive stature in that world of war and violence, it's a major clue: that's the language the writer chose. I can't see that as being a random coincidence.

Even if there were an "intruder", why would he use that language?

One of the old es-profilers who spoke about this case once said when a person fakes a ransom note, they always use what they are personally afraid of as the "villain" and motive.

So putting together kidnapping by a "foreign faction" and JR's "bussiness," makes one wonder if the Ramseys had considered that a threat, maybe to John, as it's flat out an industry in some third world countries to kidnap company executives. Within a couple of years of this murder I read an article in a major magazine about that very topic. Turns out it's been common practice for a long time for executives who travel to have "kidnapping" insurance because if you pay, they let you go--it's good business.

It's also why Mercedes makes an E-class vehicle: bulletproof.

Something else interesting:

You know when you google things and then get bombarded on every website you go to thereafter with ads for something related to your search?

I had one pop up today for a website someone has that is about international terrorism investigation or some such, and there were the words "counter-terrorism" and...VICTORY.

As in, "We've done thus and so and blahblahblah and...another victory."

I personally believe John Ramsey might have had company training in protocol for kidnapping scenarios. Norm Early said the company had such a plan in place, because he was head of security for them in Colorado.

[Ok, too tried to proof-read, so please excuse typos, grammar errors, and what-not.]

Oh, yeah, one other piece of trivia: I was trying to think of S.B.T.C yesterday and came up with R.S.V.P.--I had a recent invitation stuck in my mind. It's a socialite's expectation of form, of course.

Just Wondering

Beckley, WV

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#388
Oct 21, 2013
 

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koldkase wrote:
<quoted text>
Gosh. Thanks for this. But I must confess I've done my share of forum fighting. At some point it just gets old, though. I guess that's age catching up to me.
As for differences, are there two people who have the exact same theory? lol
I came here to find this thread again to tell you what a great idea you've had to run the ransom note terms and phrases through that Google program. I'd never heard of it before, but checked it out, and it is quite interesting what comes up.
Since John Ramsey's then-company, Lockheed Martin, is an international defense contractor with massive stature in that world of war and violence, it's a major clue: that's the language the writer chose. I can't see that as being a random coincidence.
Even if there were an "intruder", why would he use that language?
One of the old es-profilers who spoke about this case once said when a person fakes a ransom note, they always use what they are personally afraid of as the "villain" and motive.
So putting together kidnapping by a "foreign faction" and JR's "bussiness," makes one wonder if the Ramseys had considered that a threat, maybe to John, as it's flat out an industry in some third world countries to kidnap company executives. Within a couple of years of this murder I read an article in a major magazine about that very topic. Turns out it's been common practice for a long time for executives who travel to have "kidnapping" insurance because if you pay, they let you go--it's good business.
It's also why Mercedes makes an E-class vehicle: bulletproof.
Something else interesting:
You know when you google things and then get bombarded on every website you go to thereafter with ads for something related to your search?
I had one pop up today for a website someone has that is about international terrorism investigation or some such, and there were the words "counter-terrorism" and...VICTORY.
As in, "We've done thus and so and blahblahblah and...another victory."
I personally believe John Ramsey might have had company training in protocol for kidnapping scenarios. Norm Early said the company had such a plan in place, because he was head of security for them in Colorado.
[Ok, too tried to proof-read, so please excuse typos, grammar errors, and what-not.]
Oh, yeah, one other piece of trivia: I was trying to think of S.B.T.C yesterday and came up with R.S.V.P.--I had a recent invitation stuck in my mind. It's a socialite's expectation of form, of course.
Didn't the Ramseys state in their book that they had traveled overseas on behalf of their company? If so, maybe they were briefed on security measures, etc. Sounds plausible.

“YES”

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#389
Oct 22, 2013
 

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koldkase wrote:
<quoted text>
Gosh. Thanks for this. But I must confess I've done my share of forum fighting. At some point it just gets old, though. I guess that's age catching up to me.
As for differences, are there two people who have the exact same theory? lol
I came here to find this thread again to tell you what a great idea you've had to run the ransom note terms and phrases through that Google program. I'd never heard of it before, but checked it out, and it is quite interesting what comes up.
Since John Ramsey's then-company, Lockheed Martin, is an international defense contractor with massive stature in that world of war and violence, it's a major clue: that's the language the writer chose. I can't see that as being a random coincidence.
Even if there were an "intruder", why would he use that language?
One of the old es-profilers who spoke about this case once said when a person fakes a ransom note, they always use what they are personally afraid of as the "villain" and motive.
So putting together kidnapping by a "foreign faction" and JR's "bussiness," makes one wonder if the Ramseys had considered that a threat, maybe to John, as it's flat out an industry in some third world countries to kidnap company executives. Within a couple of years of this murder I read an article in a major magazine about that very topic. Turns out it's been common practice for a long time for executives who travel to have "kidnapping" insurance because if you pay, they let you go--it's good business.
It's also why Mercedes makes an E-class vehicle: bulletproof.
Something else interesting:
You know when you google things and then get bombarded on every website you go to thereafter with ads for something related to your search?
I had one pop up today for a website someone has that is about international terrorism investigation or some such, and there were the words "counter-terrorism" and...VICTORY.
As in, "We've done thus and so and blahblahblah and...another victory."
I personally believe John Ramsey might have had company training in protocol for kidnapping scenarios. Norm Early said the company had such a plan in place, because he was head of security for them in Colorado.
[Ok, too tried to proof-read, so please excuse typos, grammar errors, and what-not.]
Oh, yeah, one other piece of trivia: I was trying to think of S.B.T.C yesterday and came up with R.S.V.P.--I had a recent invitation stuck in my mind. It's a socialite's expectation of form, of course.
Hi KK,

What an interesting take on the RSVP! I had never thought of it like that before and hey, ya never know

I have no doubt that John knew the protocols with LM and knew it had nothing to do with foreign factions, etc. or you betcha he would have had LM handle the entire thing as protocol dictated.

LM IMO, washed their hands of the Ramseys quite quickly, knowing that this was not LM related and also "knowing" that something just wasn't "right" about this crime or their "employee", John!

LM may be a lot of things, but one of the things they are NOT, is stupid

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#390
Oct 22, 2013
 

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koldkase wrote:
I came here to find this thread again to tell you what a great idea you've had to run the ransom note terms and phrases through that Google program. I'd never heard of it before, but checked it out, and it is quite interesting what comes up.
Since John Ramsey's then-company, Lockheed Martin, is an international defense contractor with massive stature in that world of war and violence, it's a major clue: that's the language the writer chose. I can't see that as being a random coincidence.
Even if there were an "intruder", why would he use that language?
One of the old es-profilers who spoke about this case once said when a person fakes a ransom note, they always use what they are personally afraid of as the "villain" and motive.
So putting together kidnapping by a "foreign faction" and JR's "bussiness," makes one wonder if the Ramseys had considered that a threat, maybe to John, as it's flat out an industry in some third world countries to kidnap company executives. Within a couple of years of this murder I read an article in a major magazine about that very topic. Turns out it's been common practice for a long time for executives who travel to have "kidnapping" insurance because if you pay, they let you go--it's good business.
It's also why Mercedes makes an E-class vehicle: bulletproof.
Something else interesting:
You know when you google things and then get bombarded on every website you go to thereafter with ads for something related to your search?
I had one pop up today for a website someone has that is about international terrorism investigation or some such, and there were the words "counter-terrorism" and...VICTORY.
As in, "We've done thus and so and blahblahblah and...another victory."
I personally believe John Ramsey might have had company training in protocol for kidnapping scenarios. Norm Early said the company had such a plan in place, because he was head of security for them in Colorado.
[Ok, too tried to proof-read, so please excuse typos, grammar errors, and what-not.]
Oh, yeah, one other piece of trivia: I was trying to think of S.B.T.C yesterday and came up with R.S.V.P.--I had a recent invitation stuck in my mind. It's a socialite's expectation of form, of course.
Thanks. I just found out about Google Ngram Viewer meself. I've run phrases just through Google Books, but it's harder to search through the results. GNV seems to be a bit buggy, though. This morning I only get one page of results for "countermeasures and tactics" in each time period and none of them includes "The Counterterrorism Handbook" by Bolz. The book is searchable on amazon, though. At least it was yesterday.

I read that there was a Mercedes with built-in flamethrowers available in South Africa at one time. I think it was in the late 90s.

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#391
Oct 22, 2013
 
Capricorn wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi KK,
What an interesting take on the RSVP! I had never thought of it like that before and hey, ya never know
I have no doubt that John knew the protocols with LM and knew it had nothing to do with foreign factions, etc. or you betcha he would have had LM handle the entire thing as protocol dictated.
LM IMO, washed their hands of the Ramseys quite quickly, knowing that this was not LM related and also "knowing" that something just wasn't "right" about this crime or their "employee", John!
LM may be a lot of things, but one of the things they are NOT, is stupid
You've made an excellent point about John Ramsey; telling Patsy to call 911 FOR THE BPD when a "foreign faction" has his little girl and is "monitoring" their activities and knows "countermeasures and tactics"? When LM is one phone call away? I don't think so.

Thank heavens for Norm Early. A Colorado attorney, he was guest on countless TV media segments with case analysis. As I'm sure you know, he even questioned why LM hadn't called HIM that morning, saying his and other LM families could have been under attack by this "terrorism" gang. Not alerting him, head of security for LM companies in Colorado, or any of the LM security team was a total breach of protocol, in his opinion.

So not only did Ramsey not follow that protocol, neither did the FBI or LM, for "some reason." What does that tell us?

Even if the FBI felt certain the ransom note was a fake, they still had jurisdiction and had no way of knowing if the child was dead, when or where her body would be found, if other children or the Ramsey family were at risk, etc.

Thinking about that, about poor Linda Arndt left behind in a heavily populated neighborhood to control a TERRORIST child kidnapping with a money drop and victim retrieval operation--OF A LOCKHEED MARTIN EXECUTIVE--while also controlling a house full of civilian adults near hysteria...all by her-BPD-trained-self.

BS!!

My conspiracy theory includes the FBI being told to step down that morning by the same high level influence who knew exactly what was going on and that the Ramsey phone records could not be subpoenaed.

Also remember that Haddon had influence all the way to the White House--he was a tax attorney for the Clintons at one time.

You think those kinds of connections don't bring influence and persuasion with them?

LM and the White House--it doesn't get any more persuasive than that.

And now here comes Team Ramsey Juggernaut Haddon, once again shilling for the Ramseys, telling the BDA and Judge Lowenbach what they can and can't do, how the Ramseys again should be controlling what the public can see or know.

And pulling out that STUPID, PATHETIC, FAKE "EXONERATION" LETTER...AS IF MARY LACY HAD ANY LEGAL POWER TO DECLARE THE RAMSEYS INNOCENT AND ABOVE THE LAW.

It's a never-ending nightmare.

The public has a right to know if "there's someone out there", you self-serving azzholes! The Ramseys have told us that, named names, RUINED the reputations of NUMEROUS INNOCENT PEOPLE by pointing the finger of suspicion DIRECTLY at them, complete with Ramsey LIES AND DISINFORMATION, continuing into JR's last book, where he again goes after his suspicious "friend," knowing FULL WELL how hard the Ramsey DOGS OF HELL have ridden that poor man's family for 17 years.

How much MONEY have the Ramseys made off of selling these lies?

If Boulder lets this charade continue because Haddon has once again bullied the system into allowing Team Ramsey to control the outcome of this crime, as PRIME SUSPECTS in the murder of a child, it will be yet another [expected] blow to American justice.

Ooops...sorry, got excited and went off topic....

“Sandy Stranger killed JonBenet”

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#392
Oct 22, 2013
 
Speaking of B S.
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#395
Nov 3, 2013
 

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koldkase wrote:
One of the old es-profilers who spoke about this case once said when a person fakes a ransom note, they always use what they are personally afraid of as the "villain" and motive.
So putting together kidnapping by a "foreign faction" and JR's "bussiness," makes one wonder if the Ramseys had considered that a threat, maybe to John, as it's flat out an industry in some third world countries to kidnap company executives.
What is something else you think Patsy deep down would greatly fear?(BTW, a buss is a kiss, so bussiness could equal kissiness.)

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