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Since: Mar 08

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#1 Feb 8, 2013
In his book,_The Other Side of Suffering_, John Ramsey says that he read Psalm 34 to Patsy on her deathbed. That instantly got my attention because the third-floor Bible was found open to Psalms 35 and 36. This psalm is an interesting choice to have read to a relatively young person who's dying because it told her, essentially, that she's kicking the bucket early because she told lies.

I bought a copy of that particular Bible. When you open to Psalm 34, Psalm 35 is visible on the opposite page. A note for Ps. 34 says that the first letter of each verse of that psalm is significant. And there on the top of the right-hand column of the opposite page is the first verse of Psalm 35, four lines set apart from the following verses, left-justified and with the first letter of the first word each line capitalized. Very striking to the eye are the letters "C," "T," "B," and "S" A la Don Foster's observation.

Was John Ramsey interested in Psalm 34 before the murder or did he become interested after?
learnin

Onaga, KS

#2 Feb 8, 2013
Fr_Brown wrote:
In his book,_The Other Side of Suffering_, John Ramsey says that he read Psalm 34 to Patsy on her deathbed. That instantly got my attention because the third-floor Bible was found open to Psalms 35 and 36. This psalm is an interesting choice to have read to a relatively young person who's dying because it told her, essentially, that she's kicking the bucket early because she told lies.
I bought a copy of that particular Bible. When you open to Psalm 34, Psalm 35 is visible on the opposite page. A note for Ps. 34 says that the first letter of each verse of that psalm is significant. And there on the top of the right-hand column of the opposite page is the first verse of Psalm 35, four lines set apart from the following verses, left-justified and with the first letter of the first word each line capitalized. Very striking to the eye are the letters "C," "T," "B," and "S" A la Don Foster's observation.
Was John Ramsey interested in Psalm 34 before the murder or did he become interested after?
Interesting. Of which Bible do you speak?

What, perhaps, is more interesting is why John would discuss this particular instance and mention he read that particular Psalm. He had to know that people would be drawn to that CTBS discussion, no?

I, also, was wondering why John decided to drag this stuff back up with a new book after PR died. Did he know that the perp was now out of the way and nothing could be done?

When you consider he hired separate lawyers, it makes you wonder.
In my mind, I always come back to a telephone conversation between
Shapiro and John. Shapiro tells John he feels sorry for him and
then says he thinks Patsy was to blame. According to Shapiro, John remains silent and doesn't answer.

Although it's not my number one theory, I have always wondered if PDI, John figured it out, couldn't finger her for some reason, and thought LE would finally bust her. That would be my second most probable theory.

Since: May 11

AOL

#3 Feb 8, 2013
learnin wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting. Of which Bible do you speak?
What, perhaps, is more interesting is why John would discuss this particular instance and mention he read that particular Psalm. He had to know that people would be drawn to that CTBS discussion, no?
I, also, was wondering why John decided to drag this stuff back up with a new book after PR died. Did he know that the perp was now out of the way and nothing could be done?
When you consider he hired separate lawyers, it makes you wonder.
In my mind, I always come back to a telephone conversation between
Shapiro and John. Shapiro tells John he feels sorry for him and
then says he thinks Patsy was to blame. According to Shapiro, John remains silent and doesn't answer.
Although it's not my number one theory, I have always wondered if PDI, John figured it out, couldn't finger her for some reason, and thought LE would finally bust her. That would be my second most probable theory.
I find it interesting that John was asked about his favorite psalm when he and Patsy went on one of those religious shows and he said he couldn't remember any. He wasn't and probably isn't religious in the least, so I would agree with you that the psalm chosen was quite deliberate. However, I think he wants you et al to think of Patsy as perp. It's convenient and seriously, there couldn't have been much love between them if he didn't know what she was up to and visa versa.

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#4 Feb 8, 2013
learnin wrote:
Interesting. Of which Bible do you speak?
What, perhaps, is more interesting is why John would discuss this particular instance and mention he read that particular Psalm. He had to know that people would be drawn to that CTBS discussion, no?
I, also, was wondering why John decided to drag this stuff back up with a new book after PR died. Did he know that the perp was now out of the way and nothing could be done?
When you consider he hired separate lawyers, it makes you wonder.
In my mind, I always come back to a telephone conversation between
Shapiro and John. Shapiro tells John he feels sorry for him and
then says he thinks Patsy was to blame. According to Shapiro, John remains silent and doesn't answer.
Although it's not my number one theory, I have always wondered if PDI, John figured it out, couldn't finger her for some reason, and thought LE would finally bust her. That would be my second most probable theory.
Thomas reports that it's the New International Study Version. The one I have was published in 1985 or thereabouts. Theirs might be the deluxe version; I think the main difference is in the binding.

By the time he read the psalm to Patsy (or said he did), he would have been aware of Don Foster's hypothesis. Was he letting us readers know that he knew?

Maybe John was scared that Patsy would finger him. The "118,000.00" shows that some meta-staging was going on. It's not a mistake. "SBTC" from the third-floor Bible? Patsy distances herself from this book; it's John's Bible and she doesn't have any idea what he got up to with it. If John went to sleep thinking all was well, then it was Patsy who wiped his shirt inside the over-sized underwear Jonbenet was found in. Plan A: intruder did it; Plan B: John did it.

And maybe he felt some responsibility for leaving his panic attack-prone wife to deal with situations she couldn't cope with.

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#5 Feb 8, 2013
realTopaz wrote:
<quoted text>
I find it interesting that John was asked about his favorite psalm when he and Patsy went on one of those religious shows and he said he couldn't remember any. He wasn't and probably isn't religious in the least, so I would agree with you that the psalm chosen was quite deliberate. However, I think he wants you et al to think of Patsy as perp. It's convenient and seriously, there couldn't have been much love between them if he didn't know what she was up to and visa versa.
I agree...many indications there wasn't much love between them.

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#6 Feb 8, 2013
Fr_Brown wrote:
<quoted text>
Thomas reports that it's the New International Study Version. The one I have was published in 1985 or thereabouts. Theirs might be the deluxe version; I think the main difference is in the binding.
By the time he read the psalm to Patsy (or said he did), he would have been aware of Don Foster's hypothesis. Was he letting us readers know that he knew?
Maybe John was scared that Patsy would finger him. The "118,000.00" shows that some meta-staging was going on. It's not a mistake. "SBTC" from the third-floor Bible? Patsy distances herself from this book; it's John's Bible and she doesn't have any idea what he got up to with it. If John went to sleep thinking all was well, then it was Patsy who wiped his shirt inside the over-sized underwear Jonbenet was found in. Plan A: intruder did it; Plan B: John did it.
And maybe he felt some responsibility for leaving his panic attack-prone wife to deal with situations she couldn't cope with.
Was he letting us readers know that he knew?

Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#8 Feb 9, 2013
Blue Bottle wrote:
The Bible open to Psalms 35 is a major clue to the mind at work. What kind of mind knows the first letters of the first four lines of Psalms 35 in the NIV Study Bible are SBTC backwords? Inialisms are big in certain Christian circles such as INRI and JHVH. So is seeking hidden messages in the Bible.
Both people sought comfort in the Bible but Patsy was the intialism user not John.
This is another indication of people making staging out of something else. Why leave the Bible open? Was that for the cops? What were they supposed to think? How does that implicate the group of individuals? And why leave the dictionary open dog-eared to the word incest? That points to the family. How is that supposed to implicate and intruder?
She wouldn't have to know those letters. They pop out at you if you're open to that page. Perhaps the Bible was already open to Psalms 34 and 35 on Christmas night.(The Bible was actually found open to the next two pages containing the rest of Psalm 35 and all of Psalm 36.)

If the the dictionary page pointing to "incest" was deliberate, then it would point to a family member: John, in my view, should the intruder ruse not fly.

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#9 Jan 29, 2014
Fr_Brown wrote:
In his book,_The Other Side of Suffering_, John Ramsey says that he read Psalm 34 to Patsy on her deathbed. That instantly got my attention because the third-floor Bible was found open to Psalms 35 and 36. This psalm is an interesting choice to have read to a relatively young person who's dying because it told her, essentially, that she's kicking the bucket early because she told lies.
I bought a copy of that particular Bible. When you open to Psalm 34, Psalm 35 is visible on the opposite page. A note for Ps. 34 says that the first letter of each verse of that psalm is significant. And there on the top of the right-hand column of the opposite page is the first verse of Psalm 35, four lines set apart from the following verses, left-justified and with the first letter of the first word each line capitalized. Very striking to the eye are the letters "C," "T," "B," and "S" a la Don Foster's observation.
Was John Ramsey interested in Psalm 34 before the murder or did he become interested after?
TOSOS contains three references to Psalm 34; two of them are quotations from it. In all, the book has fifteen references to psalms.
Just Wondering

Sophia, WV

#11 Jan 30, 2014
Very astute observation, FB. Needs further delving into, don't you think?

I remember an interview that John did with CBN, and he said Patsy's death had become a relief in a way. Understandable, but I felt his remark was so glib, "Oh, we knew we would miss her terribly but..." Of course, much time had passed and the pain had eased a lot, I am sure. But I didn't see much sorrow or tenderness in his words at that time.

Anyway, can't wait to delve into Psalm 34. And check out Psalm 35, as well.

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#12 Jan 30, 2014
[QUOTE who="Just Wondering"
I remember an interview that John did with CBN, and he said Patsy's death had become a relief in a way. Understandable, but I felt his remark was so glib, "Oh, we knew we would miss her terribly but..." Of course, much time had passed and the pain had eased a lot, I am sure. But I didn't see much sorrow or tenderness in his words at that time.
Anyway, can't wait to delve into Psalm 34. And check out Psalm 35, as well.[/QUOTE]

Go to biblegateway and look for the New International Version. You'll get the actual language of both psalms. When that bible is open to Psalm 34, the beginning of Psalm 35 is also visible.

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#13 Jan 30, 2014
Just Wondering wrote:
Very astute observation, FB. Needs further delving into, don't you think?
I remember an interview that John did with CBN, and he said Patsy's death had become a relief in a way. Understandable, but I felt his remark was so glib, "Oh, we knew we would miss her terribly but..." Of course, much time had passed and the pain had eased a lot, I am sure. But I didn't see much sorrow or tenderness in his words at that time.
Anyway, can't wait to delve into Psalm 34. And check out Psalm 35, as well.
Let me try that again....

Go to biblegateway and look for the New International Version. You'll get the actual language of both psalms. When that Bible is open to Psalm 34, the beginning of Psalm 35 is also visible.

I determined a while ago that the version of the Ramsey Bible in question is the NIV Study Bible published in 1985. I notice these are available used on amazon for 75 cents.
whodatninja

Courtland, CA

#14 Jan 30, 2014
Fr_Brown wrote:
Let me try that again....
Go to biblegateway and look for the New International Version. You'll get the actual language of both psalms. When that Bible is open to Psalm 34, the beginning of Psalm 35 is also visible.
I determined a while ago that the version of the Ramsey Bible in question is the NIV Study Bible published in 1985. I notice these are available used on amazon for 75 cents.
Actually, to clarify, when the New International *Study* Version (1985) is open to Psalm 34, Psalm 35 is also visible. That was the Bible in John's third-floor study.

The study version has a lot of additional commentary so the layout may be different from the non-study version on biblegateway. The language of the psalms is the same, though.

Since: Mar 08

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#15 Jan 30, 2014
And, oops, I forgot to sign in again.

Since: Mar 08

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#21 Feb 18, 2014
According to _Perfect Murder, Perfect Town_, the Bible in John's study was among the objects Patsy's sister took out of the house on Dec. 28.

Since: Mar 08

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#22 Feb 19, 2014
Fr_Brown wrote:
According to _Perfect Murder, Perfect Town_, the Bible in John's study was among the objects Patsy's sister took out of the house on Dec. 28.
According to LHP in PMPT, this Bible was frequently read. She'd find it sometimes on the desk, sometimes on the bed. And the NIV study Bible isn't a small book: each page of biblical text includes a half page of commentary.

Steve Thomas agrees that Pam removed it from the house.
Taylur

Warsaw, MO

#23 Feb 19, 2014
I'm a little off topic, but I have to agree with John either being involved in the murder or knowing who did it. I agree that the bible verse is a little odd. I recall somewhere reading that the bible verse talked about binding the sacrifice with cords? Any truth to that?
What also strikes me as odd is how he reacted to JB's death in comparison with Beth's. Reactions to painful experiences (or any experience really) are unconscious and developed at a young age. Patsy's reaction is a whole other story.
Taylur

Warsaw, MO

#24 Feb 19, 2014
The bible verse I'm referring to is the one found open the morning of the murder by the way!

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#25 Feb 19, 2014
Taylur wrote:
I'm a little off topic, but I have to agree with John either being involved in the murder or knowing who did it. I agree that the bible verse is a little odd. I recall somewhere reading that the bible verse talked about binding the sacrifice with cords? Any truth to that?
No.
Taylur

Warsaw, MO

#26 Feb 19, 2014
Fr_Brown wrote:
<quoted text>
No.
Thanks. It was actually Psalms 35 that the Bible on John's desk was open to.

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#27 Feb 21, 2014
Actually it was another Ramsey employee, Linda Wilcox, who says the Bible was sometimes on the bed and sometimes on the desk. She also says that she always saw it closed ( according to PMPT).

Also in PMPT, Schiller says that LHP told Michael Kane the Bible was usually open to Psalm 118. A line of Psalm 118 is one of Dodie Osteen's forty lines from scripture she used to overcome cancer. I read somewhere that Patsy used Osteen's mantra herself. The line from Psalm 118 goes, "I shall not die, but live, and declare the works of the Lord."

Excerpts from other psalms appear in Osteen's _Healed of Cancer_, but nothing from 34, 35 or 36.

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