who is on the top of your suspect lis...
kat

Riverhead, NY

#244 Mar 13, 2013
realTopaz wrote:
<quoted text>
it's not a spelling bee and that's not what we're talking about. Someone that types like they have marbles in their mouth and suddenly becomes a smart a** to so called unfamiliars, is who we're referring to. There's a real difference between NEW people and OLD RECYCLED HATS.
i get it...my inquiring mind is now wondering what motive or benefit people get in annoying people for sport...methinks we're dealing with some people who are 20 years old or so....by the way, i did some reading on edema--and found yes, swelling from edema both flares and disappears very quickly, to get back to the crux of the thread. while i am not saying that it was correct to present rorke's information as part of the autopsy, the facts remain the facts
mee

Epsom, UK

#245 Mar 13, 2013
realTopaz wrote:
<quoted text>
it's not a spelling bee and that's not what we're talking about. Someone that types like they have marbles in their mouth and suddenly becomes a smart a** to so called unfamiliars, is who we're referring to. There's a real difference between NEW people and OLD RECYCLED HATS.
your so wrong its funny...and when anybody says something about me thats nasty..im going to answer back...its called sticking up for yourself...

Since: May 11

AOL

#246 Mar 13, 2013
mee wrote:
<quoted text>your so wrong its funny...and when anybody says something about me thats nasty..im going to answer back...its called sticking up for yourself...
Stop bullying me!!! waaaaah!

“If life gives you melons”

Since: Nov 06

You might be dyslexic

#247 Mar 13, 2013
realTopaz wrote:
<quoted text>
Stop bullying me!!! waaaaah!
Oh dear, are you being bullied by the oldbie/faux newbie? I am so sorry.

Since: May 11

AOL

#248 Mar 13, 2013
Legal__Eagle wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh dear, are you being bullied by the oldbie/faux newbie? I am so sorry.
yes I am LE, she came on here and started bullying me because my opinions differ from her's. lol thanks;)
Heloise

Manchester, UK

#249 Mar 13, 2013
Heloise wrote:
Mee certainly doesn't 'sound' like s/he comes from Epsom. Their poop doesn't smell in Surrey...
Actually, now I get myself reckoned up, I think Epsom used to be famous for having loads of psychiatric hospitals....

“If life gives you melons”

Since: Nov 06

You might be dyslexic

#250 Mar 13, 2013
realTopaz wrote:
<quoted text>
yes I am LE, she came on here and started bullying me because my opinions differ from her's. lol thanks;)
Well she should be ashamed of herself, don't you think? I'm all for being kind to strays, but sometimes it does get frustrating.

Since: May 11

AOL

#251 Mar 13, 2013
Legal__Eagle wrote:
<quoted text>
Well she should be ashamed of herself, don't you think? I'm all for being kind to strays, but sometimes it does get frustrating.
Incapable of shame..or she wouldn't come BACK here as yet another boob.
The Truth Hurts

Livonia, MI

#252 Mar 13, 2013
mee wrote:
<quoted text>why would they use paper from their own pad...and their own pen..surely they are not that stupid...why would they use a paintbrush from the house as a garrote..it doesnt make sense at all..
You're right! They should have run down to the nearest Walmart and bought all new things. ;) Or maybe ran next door and borrowed them from a neighbor.
Steve Eller

United States

#253 Mar 13, 2013
mee wrote:
<quoted text>so its ok for you to be semi illiterate..(bet you had to spell check that one)..because your keyboards'broken'..but im not..
You're just a PHONY! Fun while it lasted wasn't it folks?

Since: Oct 08

Location hidden

#254 Mar 13, 2013
kat wrote:
<quoted text> i literally just explained my theory of why r's thought, and rightly so, that the note would help them. but i'll state it a third time, maybe that'll be the charm. the note imparted benefit because it made the police focus their attention on responding to the ransom note, rather than searching every nook and cranny right away. a second thing it did was impart the idea that there was an intruder, and any looking for the perpetrator in the future should first be thought of in light of this small foreign faction, rather than doing the obvious, and looking at the people standing right in front of their faces, who were the only other one's known to be in the home. and i think this as the ramsey's logic,, and whadda u know----it worked or we wouldn't be having this convo
Assuming RDI: if there was no ransom note there would not be any need for the police to be called. You call 911 for an ambulance. You say, I don’t know what happened. We found her laying on the floor, she must have fallen down the spiral staircase in the middle of the night. Or make up some other lie.

The ransom note brings the police to the house while the body is still in it, it does not explain the body being in the house, it is written with your materials, etc. Even if the note causes the police to look elsewhere, they only do so until 1) the body is found and/or 2) it is discovered that the note was written in the house.

In other words any benefit fades almost as soon as the police are called, and disappears soon after, and it becomes self-incriminating evidence.
If the Ramseys truly wanted to make authorities believe that someone came into their home and kidnapped their daughter, then they needed to get rid of the body (can’t? then don’t fake a kidnapping) and they needed to say, yes, the doors were unlocked, anyone could have gotten in at any time.
…

AK

Since: Oct 08

Location hidden

#255 Mar 13, 2013
Capricorn wrote:
As a wealthy, upstanding family in Boulder, without that note, things would have gone quite differently for the Ramseys
With that note and the Ramsey reputation, initially a kidnapper was thought to be the problem; therefore having everyone parade through the house in the interim worked quite well to destroy any possible evidence
The Ramseys needed that intrusion and the time to muddy the crime scene
Everything they did worked to their advantage and to this day, the contamination of the crime scene, due to the NOTE, forcing everyone to think it was a kidnapping, still works to their advantage
Without that note, the crime scene would have been kept properly, JBR would eventually have been found and the Ramseys would have had lots of "explaining" to do
As stated, the Ramseys would not have needed to call the police. Stage, fake, lie about an accident. No crime scene. No evidence.
…

AK

Since: Oct 08

Location hidden

#256 Mar 13, 2013
Bakatari wrote:
Nonsense!
The Ransom note confused the police from the very beginning. As Capricorn stated, here you have a wealthy upstanding family in the community, and the ransom note,which practically forced them to look into it instead of looking at the situation as they should have.
Without the RN, they would have been immediate suspects. How could they be "a thousand times better off"?
The RN was a fake. It pointed to the culprit being an intruder, and away from the Ramsey family, who were wealthy, and supposedly upstanding members of their community. The RN did its job of helping the Ramseys very well. WITHOUT it, there would have been an arrest and a conviction.
CC
<quoted text>
Suspects of what?

No note, no tape, no cord, no crime scene, no hidden body, no asphyxiation or molestation, etc. Just stage an accident or lie about an accident and call an ambulance. Good grief!
…

AK

Since: Oct 08

Location hidden

#257 Mar 13, 2013
DrSeussMd wrote:
of entered = HAVE entered
ive = I've
..=...(it is called an ellipsis)
its = it's(a contraction for the two words it + is)
Also, a "?" goes at the end of every question.
Furthermore:
"correct me if im wrong but ive never heard of a murder case where the parents have written a ransom note"
Read up on Zhara Baker case.
The Zhara Baker case is interesting in that it illustrates exactly what “we” have been saying: you use a ransom note to explain why someone is missing. Zhara was murdered and her body disposed of. The ransom note makes an appearance after the body has been disposed of and is supposed to explain the disappearance.

This is exactly opposite of the Ramsey situation.
A ransom note made sense in the Zhara case because there was no body and it is nonsense in the Ramseys case because there was a body.
…

AK

Since: Feb 12

Honolulu, HI

#258 Mar 13, 2013
Hi Anti K,
You made some very good points in this post.
Without the RN, the police would not be called until IF an intruder did it,...
When they noticed JB missing, searched the house, and either did not find her OR found her body. IG they did not find her, it would mean that they didn't search the entire house, and IF they found her, then there would be an immediate murder investigation.

The RN prompted the call.

IF they committed the murder, but did not write the RN, there would be a very long wait before they would call the police, there would be no reason to call the Whites, the Fernies, or the pastor. They would have to plan to wait until they felt it was time to call the police, which would have been quite difficult.

We do know the RN was a fake, and only a fool would say the RN was an attempt to collect a ransom.(Lou Smit was a fool).

IF an intruder, what was the purpose of the RN?
CC
Anti-K wrote:
<quoted text>
Assuming RDI: if there was no ransom note there would not be any need for the police to be called. You call 911 for an ambulance. You say, I don’t know what happened. We found her laying on the floor, she must have fallen down the spiral staircase in the middle of the night. Or make up some other lie.
The ransom note brings the police to the house while the body is still in it, it does not explain the body being in the house, it is written with your materials, etc. Even if the note causes the police to look elsewhere, they only do so until 1) the body is found and/or 2) it is discovered that the note was written in the house.
In other words any benefit fades almost as soon as the police are called, and disappears soon after, and it becomes self-incriminating evidence.
If the Ramseys truly wanted to make authorities believe that someone came into their home and kidnapped their daughter, then they needed to get rid of the body (can’t? then don’t fake a kidnapping) and they needed to say, yes, the doors were unlocked, anyone could have gotten in at any time.
…
AK

Since: Oct 08

Location hidden

#259 Mar 13, 2013
Here’s an interesting thing: the ransom note in a sense preserved the crime scene. Of course, by “crime scene” I mean the body location and position/condition as well as the room in which it was hidden.

Unfortunately, and due to circumstance no one could have foreseen, Mr Ramsey discovered the body and disrupted the scene. This should not have happened, and if the police had acted appropriately then they would have discovered the body and with it a pristine crime scene.

Yes, people coming into the house complicated things, but I think that claims of resulting contamination are over blown. Regardless, if the Ramseys called these people over for that purpose, then they should have called them first before they called the police; and, they should have waited for the arrival of those people before calling the police. Otherwise, how could those people contaminate the scene before the police arrived and ruined the plan by 1) not allowing those people in, or 2) restricting the movement of those people?
…

AK

Since: Oct 08

Location hidden

#260 Mar 13, 2013
Most people see the ransom note in conjunction with body in the house as being contradictory. I see it that way, too. However, I notice that the note in conjunction with the hidden body served to create a pristine crime scene.

Without that note, anyone could have found the body. With a note, there is no reason to expect anyone to search for something hidden, and eventually, however long it might take, the authorities are going to be called and they’re going to come over and find a pristine crime scene, preserved by a “hinky” ransom note.

This is what SHOULD have happened, and in this context the ransom note and the body hidden in the house complement each other. The contradiction is removed. The note preserves a crime scene and invites the authorities over to discover it.

Was that the purpose of the note? I don’t know. Really. I posted a few other possibilities, you remember those? I’m not good with motivation and I don’t know if that is something that we can begin to discern without knowing something about the person responsible; at least, not in this case.

Intent is something different, and I think we should be able to make some pretty decent “guesses” about that. But, really, I don’t know. I don’t think anyone knows except the author.

I do know that ransom notes – fake ransom notes – are only reasonable after a body has been disposed of. If you can’t get rid of the body you don’t need a ransom note, you need to explain the dead body. Oops. I dropped the baby. I don’t know why. If you’re smart enough and moneyed enough and connected enough and confident enough that you can get out of murder, than surely getting out of an accident – no crime scene, no tape, no paint brush, not pen, no notepad, no, etc. etc. iow, no evidence!– just an accident. So, why create a note that explains why there is no body, when there is a body?
…

AK
mee

Epsom, UK

#261 Mar 14, 2013
The Truth Hurts wrote:
<quoted text>
You're right! They should have run down to the nearest Walmart and bought all new things. ;) Or maybe ran next door and borrowed them from a neighbor.
They just wouldnt of bothered with a RN in the first place..they would of just got rid of her body altogether,i dont think they would of left her body in the house if they wanted to stage a kidnapping..
mee

Epsom, UK

#262 Mar 14, 2013
Anti-K wrote:
Most people see the ransom note in conjunction with body in the house as being contradictory. I see it that way, too. However, I notice that the note in conjunction with the hidden body served to create a pristine crime scene.
Without that note, anyone could have found the body. With a note, there is no reason to expect anyone to search for something hidden, and eventually, however long it might take, the authorities are going to be called and they’re going to come over and find a pristine crime scene, preserved by a “hinky” ransom note.
This is what SHOULD have happened, and in this context the ransom note and the body hidden in the house complement each other. The contradiction is removed. The note preserves a crime scene and invites the authorities over to discover it.
Was that the purpose of the note? I don’t know. Really. I posted a few other possibilities, you remember those? I’m not good with motivation and I don’t know if that is something that we can begin to discern without knowing something about the person responsible; at least, not in this case.
Intent is something different, and I think we should be able to make some pretty decent “guesses” about that. But, really, I don’t know. I don’t think anyone knows except the author.
I do know that ransom notes – fake ransom notes – are only reasonable after a body has been disposed of. If you can’t get rid of the body you don’t need a ransom note, you need to explain the dead body. Oops. I dropped the baby. I don’t know why. If you’re smart enough and moneyed enough and connected enough and confident enough that you can get out of murder, than surely getting out of an accident – no crime scene, no tape, no paint brush, not pen, no notepad, no, etc. etc. iow, no evidence!– just an accident. So, why create a note that explains why there is no body, when there is a body?
…
AK
Agree..great points
Heloise

Manchester, UK

#263 Mar 14, 2013
mee wrote:
<quoted text>They just wouldnt of bothered with a RN in the first place..they would of just got rid of her body altogether,i dont think they would of left her body in the house if they wanted to stage a kidnapping..
Easier said than done. Getting rid of a body in the middle of the night without being apprehended or seen acting oddly by neighbours is no small task.

Besides which, the carefully wrapped body shows that someone cared about the child and wouldn't want to leave the body to the elements.

That said, I think they probably did think about removing the body (hence line about JBR's remains being denied a decent burial) but snow and the reality of disposing of a body intruded on the plan.

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