The Ramsey home light evidence

The Ramsey home light evidence

Posted in the JonBenet Ramsey Forum

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learnin

Alma, KS

#1 Aug 12, 2009
I would like to have a good discussion about the lighting in the Ramsey home around midnight of that fateful evening.

In another thread, Detroit posted some items about the lighting. I will paraphrase these as best as I can:

1. A neighbor noticed that the safety light that lights up the back of the house is out and it was unusual.

2. A neighbor notices a strange light burning in the butler's kitchen around midnight. First time he has ever remembered seeing a light on in the kitchen.

3. Another neighbor notices, around midnight, the sunroom, on the southeast corner of the house, does not have a safety light burning and this is unusual because it is the first time she has never seen it on.

Is this evidence trustworthy? I believe it's critical in establishing a few things and hopefully can narrow things down a little more.

Can anyone help me out here?

Since: Mar 07

Farmington, MI

#2 Aug 12, 2009
There`s also another neighbor who saw a flashlight moving around about midnight. I had that before and need to find that again. I think Henri knows that one.

Also what about the matching cigarette butts outside the Ramseys and at the home of the other girl who also went to Dance West who was also attacked in her home. Jonbenet on WED and that girl on SUN.

Since: Mar 07

Farmington, MI

#3 Aug 12, 2009
Melody Staton heard the scream which she thinks was about midnight. She never "actually" recanted. She is not the one, whoever, who saw what was described as strange lights in the kitchen. That was a different person (man). Melody Stanton's husband heard the sound of "metal on concrete" shortly after his wife heard the scream.

Since: Mar 07

Farmington, MI

#4 Aug 12, 2009
From the Jonbenet Ramsey case Encyclopedia:
What Neighbors Reported
Page history last edited by Miss Marple 2 yrs ago

Lights in Kitchen
Schiller Account. "At about midnight, Scott Gibbons, a neighbor, looked out his kitchen window toward the Ramseys' house and saw a light on in the kitchen area." (Schiller 1999:58).
Thomas Account. Thomas states in his book that "A neighbor to the north would say that the butler kitchen lights were on around midnight and considered that unusual since it was the first time he had noticed that light being on in the Ramsey home...(Thomas 2000a:49). Although Thomas does not provide the name, Gibbons lived next door to the Ramseys to the immediate north (map); he would have had a direct view of the butler pantry (diagram).
Bluecrab Account. According to Internet poster Bluecrab "Gibbons, from his own kitchen window, observed the "late-night" movement of people in the Ramsey kitchen who, according to Gibbons, seemed to be creeping around in the semi-darkness so as not to awaken others in the house. Gibbons also saw a light on in the butler's kitchen at about 12 midnight, the first time he had ever seen that light burning." No source is provided for this information.
Toltec Account. Internet poster Toltec also states: The next door neighbor who witnessed the "strange" light in the kitchen around midnight said that it "looked like someone was moving around as not to wake anyone." No source is provided for this information.
Schiller adds: "Sometime later, Adam Fermeire, another neighbor, who was up watching TV, said he didn't notice anything strange through the window that faced the Ramseys' house"(Schiller 1999:58).
Internet poster Jolynna noted "in one of Patsy's interviews, she said that the family was not good about leaving lights off."


Missing Safety Light
Thomas Account. "A resident directly to the south reported that the light was off in the southeast corner sunroom of the Ramsey home and thought that was odd because it was the only time she was aware in the past few years that it did not burn all night." (Thomas 2000a:49).
"Diane Brumfitt, another neighbor, told Detective Barry Hartkopp on December 31 that on Christmas night she did not see a light on at the southeast corner of the Ramseys' house, though there had been a safety light in that spot for years. She remembered thinking that it was unusual." Although Thomas does not name Brumfitt, the Brumfitt house is next door to the Ramseys to the immediate south (map).

learnin

Alma, KS

#5 Aug 12, 2009
DETROIT wrote:
From the Jonbenet Ramsey case Encyclopedia:
What Neighbors Reported
Page history last edited by Miss Marple 2 yrs ago
Lights in Kitchen
Schiller Account. "At about midnight, Scott Gibbons, a neighbor, looked out his kitchen window toward the Ramseys' house and saw a light on in the kitchen area." (Schiller 1999:58).
Thomas Account. Thomas states in his book that "A neighbor to the north would say that the butler kitchen lights were on around midnight and considered that unusual since it was the first time he had noticed that light being on in the Ramsey home...(Thomas 2000a:49). Although Thomas does not provide the name, Gibbons lived next door to the Ramseys to the immediate north (map); he would have had a direct view of the butler pantry (diagram).
Bluecrab Account. According to Internet poster Bluecrab "Gibbons, from his own kitchen window, observed the "late-night" movement of people in the Ramsey kitchen who, according to Gibbons, seemed to be creeping around in the semi-darkness so as not to awaken others in the house. Gibbons also saw a light on in the butler's kitchen at about 12 midnight, the first time he had ever seen that light burning." No source is provided for this information.
Toltec Account. Internet poster Toltec also states: The next door neighbor who witnessed the "strange" light in the kitchen around midnight said that it "looked like someone was moving around as not to wake anyone." No source is provided for this information.
Schiller adds: "Sometime later, Adam Fermeire, another neighbor, who was up watching TV, said he didn't notice anything strange through the window that faced the Ramseys' house"(Schiller 1999:58).
Internet poster Jolynna noted "in one of Patsy's interviews, she said that the family was not good about leaving lights off."
Missing Safety Light
Thomas Account. "A resident directly to the south reported that the light was off in the southeast corner sunroom of the Ramsey home and thought that was odd because it was the only time she was aware in the past few years that it did not burn all night." (Thomas 2000a:49).
"Diane Brumfitt, another neighbor, told Detective Barry Hartkopp on December 31 that on Christmas night she did not see a light on at the southeast corner of the Ramseys' house, though there had been a safety light in that spot for years. She remembered thinking that it was unusual." Although Thomas does not name Brumfitt, the Brumfitt house is next door to the Ramseys to the immediate south (map).
Thank you. I'm assuming that these accounts are trustworthy.
Shill Off Topic

Sherman Oaks, CA

#6 Aug 13, 2009
Which room was the basement floor safe in?
WV Sleuth

Washington, DC

#7 Aug 13, 2009
Shill wrote:
Which room was the basement floor safe in?

-- Google is your friend. "Jon Benet floor safe" yields this:
"We do know that the Ramsey decorated artificial Christmas trees were kept in that room along with paint cans, boxes, window screens, a fireplace poker, and a rug covering a floor safe."
WV Sleuth

Washington, DC

#8 Aug 13, 2009
so the answer would seem to be 'THAT ROOM'...
Hills Have Eyes

Sherman Oaks, CA

#9 Aug 13, 2009
WV Sleuth wrote:
so the answer would seem to be 'THAT ROOM'...
Isn't that the safe that John kept his $118,000 Christmas bonus money in that was found empty?
WV Sleuth

Washington, DC

#10 Aug 13, 2009
Shirley you jest. You wanted the answer; I found you an answer. I didn't vouch that it was the correct answer. I did the leg work. Next time find it yourself.
You silly ass. If he'd found the 118k in the safe in that room, then he could have torn up his ransom novel and gotten the hell out of dodge..
Shillicious

Sherman Oaks, CA

#11 Aug 13, 2009
Shirley I do jest.
And thank you for doing the leg work WV, I thought someone would know it of the top of their head, but you went the extra mile, thx.
learnin

Alma, KS

#12 Aug 13, 2009
Okay. Someone please explain to me why an intruder would have to traipse into the glass sun room to shut off a safety light that is on the opposite side of the house from where he has to work?

I assume the Ramseys left it burning as it always did when they went to bed.

Intruder had to go into that room to shut it off. Why would he need to do so when he would never have a reason to be working in that room or even be close?

Intruder comes in basement window at back of house. Goes through basement, up the stairs, down the back corridor and to the spiral staircase. Gets JB, takes her back down the spiral case and back to the basement the same way....LET THE SUNROOM SAFETY LIGHT BURN.....

Who would have a need, or think it wise, to turn off that safety light?

Since: Mar 07

United States

#13 Aug 13, 2009
No. The Intruder walks into house using Fleet`s key, leisurely checks out house, leaves Danish book in John and Patsy`s bedroom, sees they`re packing and leaves rope in John Andrews room and goes to basement to wait. Why didn`t he have time enough to turn off that sunroom light if he wanted to?
learnin

United States

#14 Aug 13, 2009
DETROIT wrote:
No. The Intruder walks into house using Fleet`s key, leisurely checks out house, leaves Danish book in John and Patsy`s bedroom, sees they`re packing and leaves rope in John Andrews room and goes to basement to wait. Why didn`t he have time enough to turn off that sunroom light if he wanted to?
He had time. The question is why he would want to risk more time in the house and walk into a lighted, glass lined room to risk being seen by someone? Why would he do such a thing when he didn't have to go near that room?

But wouldn't the parents be comfortable enough in their own house to slip into that room and turn the light off?

Since: Mar 07

United States

#15 Aug 13, 2009
learnin wrote:
<quoted text>
He had time. The question is why he would want to risk more time in the house and walk into a lighted, glass lined room to risk being seen by someone? Why would he do such a thing when he didn't have to go near that room?
But wouldn't the parents be comfortable enough in their own house to slip into that room and turn the light off?
We all look at things from our own point of view. Personally I believe that someone that I know killed Jonbenet. I believe that because he even asked me for things used in the murder such as an unopened package of cord that I HAD WHICH IS IDENTICAL TO THE CORD USED IN THE GAROTTE. AFTER I OPENED IT AND TOUCHED IT, HE NO LONGER WANTED IT.
Why did he want that light out? So noone could see him.
Why did he waste time doing that? HE HAD LOTS OF TIME TO KILL. He was in the house for hours and Helgoth wasn`t picking him up until 2a.m.
FROM THE POINT OF VIEW of the Ramsey`s turning off the light, it was off when they were gone. Several neighbors had noticed the light being off.
WV Sleuth

United States

#16 Aug 13, 2009
So, just to have this straight, Detroit... YOU are saying that GARY, and HELGOTH, and FLEET WHITE were ALL involved in the murder of Jon Benet?

Since: Mar 07

United States

#17 Aug 13, 2009
WV Sleuth wrote:
So, just to have this straight, Detroit... YOU are saying that GARY, and HELGOTH, and FLEET WHITE were ALL involved in the murder of Jon Benet?
From the beginning I have stated that Gary talked about a guy he knew in CO that had stun guns and that he called CAL and MICAL and he claimed to have killed the guy on the perfect day (Michigan OCCK kids had been killed Christmas as was Jonbenet and Valentines Day as was helgoth) and left a hat that said SBTC and a vcr tape that Gary claimed that he`d retaped over the middle. Helgoth was the Patsy. He thought that he was picking Gary and Jonbenet up as a kidnapping. Helgoth thought that his parents were selling the junkyard and that he`d soon be without a job. He told Kenady that he`d soon have $60,000.$118,000 divided by 2 is $59,000,darn near $60,000. Helgoth was found dead with a hat that said SBTC just like in the Ransom note. killed with his own gun from the left side when he was right handed. Gary said that MICAL (Michael Helgoth) was to pick him up at the Ramsey house at 2a.m. with Jonbenet.
Naturally, Gary and Fleet had other plans. The note was prewritten. A magazine filler of John Ramsey was left at the murder with a RED HEART ON jOHN`S FACE AS IN THE MOVIE RICOCHET WHEN THE GOOD GUY IS FRAMED BY THE BAD GUY. A matching RED HEART was also drawn on Jonbenet`s left hand. On the hand because Gary had killed and kidnapped the HANDA= A HAND boy in CA. Gary LEFT EXCERPTS IN THE NOTE FROM the NICK of time because in 1995 Gary had kidnapped 6 year old girl Morgan NICK at a crowded baseball field. There were excerpts in the note from the Zodiac remake Dirty Harry because Gary thinks that he`s the second ZODIAC. There were excerpts from Ransom, then showing at Boulder theatres. That night WHEN gARY LEFT THE RICOCHET RED HEART MAGAZINE FILLER AND DREW THE RED HEART ON jONBENET`S HAND Fleet`s house guests watched RICOCHET.
learnin

Alma, KS

#18 Aug 13, 2009
DETROIT wrote:
<quoted text>From the beginning I have stated that Gary talked about a guy he knew in CO that had stun guns and that he called CAL and MICAL and he claimed to have killed the guy on the perfect day (Michigan OCCK kids had been killed Christmas as was Jonbenet and Valentines Day as was helgoth) and left a hat that said SBTC and a vcr tape that Gary claimed that he`d retaped over the middle. Helgoth was the Patsy. He thought that he was picking Gary and Jonbenet up as a kidnapping. Helgoth thought that his parents were selling the junkyard and that he`d soon be without a job. He told Kenady that he`d soon have $60,000.$118,000 divided by 2 is $59,000,darn near $60,000. Helgoth was found dead with a hat that said SBTC just like in the Ransom note. killed with his own gun from the left side when he was right handed. Gary said that MICAL (Michael Helgoth) was to pick him up at the Ramsey house at 2a.m. with Jonbenet.
Naturally, Gary and Fleet had other plans. The note was prewritten. A magazine filler of John Ramsey was left at the murder with a RED HEART ON jOHN`S FACE AS IN THE MOVIE RICOCHET WHEN THE GOOD GUY IS FRAMED BY THE BAD GUY. A matching RED HEART was also drawn on Jonbenet`s left hand. On the hand because Gary had killed and kidnapped the HANDA= A HAND boy in CA. Gary LEFT EXCERPTS IN THE NOTE FROM the NICK of time because in 1995 Gary had kidnapped 6 year old girl Morgan NICK at a crowded baseball field. There were excerpts in the note from the Zodiac remake Dirty Harry because Gary thinks that he`s the second ZODIAC. There were excerpts from Ransom, then showing at Boulder theatres. That night WHEN gARY LEFT THE RICOCHET RED HEART MAGAZINE FILLER AND DREW THE RED HEART ON jONBENET`S HAND Fleet`s house guests watched RICOCHET.
Gary has told you all this, and I suppose you've told LE, and LE does nothing. Did they even call him in for questioning?

If you've got the goods, the confession, and you've informed LE, and they ignore you, then, it's time for you to move on. There's no reason for you to keep repeating the same thing here.
WV Sleuth

United States

#19 Aug 13, 2009
A simple 'Yes' would have sufficed.

So, let's try again..

Are you saying "GARY and HELGOTH and FLEET WHITE killed Jon Benet"?

Since: Mar 07

United States

#20 Aug 13, 2009
WV Sleuth wrote:
A simple 'Yes' would have sufficed.
So, let's try again..
Are you saying "GARY and HELGOTH and FLEET WHITE killed Jon Benet"?
No. I didn`t say that. I said that Gary told me that Fleet wanted Jonbenet dead and that Fleet gave him the key and that the Ramsey`s were at Fleet`s house at Christmas and that Fleet gave him the Danish book to leave there. Gary never said the name Fleet White.
Gary said that Mical lived in CO and had stun guns and taught Gary about B&E`s and that Mical dropped him off and was to pick him and Jonbenet up. Gary said that he never liked Mical and that he killed Mical on a special day and left a vcr tape there with the middle taped over and a hat that said SBTC. Gary never said the name Michael Helgoth.

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