consistent with intruder theory

Since: Oct 08

Location hidden

#42 Dec 4, 2013
Delta88 wrote:
<quoted text>
That's a good question, and that is one of the problems with the theory. All theories have their weak points.
One thing to consider is that if PR is next to the phone, and JR is on the other side of the room (we don't actually know where they were) then there really would be no way to stop her. Once 911 is called there's going to be a response, even if the phone is hung up. It doesn't take long to dial 911.
Nothing – nothing – could have been more important to Mr Ramsey then preventing that phone call. Mrs Ramseys was on the other side of the room? Not an excuse. How did that happen with stakes so incredibly high?
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AK

Since: May 11

AOL

#43 Dec 4, 2013
Anti-K wrote:
<quoted text>
Nothing – nothing – could have been more important to Mr Ramsey then preventing that phone call. Mrs Ramseys was on the other side of the room? Not an excuse. How did that happen with stakes so incredibly high?
...
AK
speaking of nothing-nothing-, nothing in either of their testimony says either had a question for the other. If anyone finds Nothing strange about that, I'd have to say 'enjoy your job at the morgue'. Only a stiff would have nothing to ask of their signifigant other, even tho the RANSOM NOTE was addressed to one of them in particular. To hear the R's tell it, they went like robots to the kitchen and called 911 without a word. Then Patsy robocalled in a party, no discussion or questions asked, while her husband went upstairs to tuck in his shirt. No discussion between them before cops came and asked questions.
I'm married, you're probably married, you saw your parent's marriage and many others..would any married couple you know NOT AT LEAST ASK "who could this be?" ??! I'm holding a note written to Mr Topaz and I don't know where my child is and why she's gone, I'm not going to call anybody before I ask Mr T, "wth?"
I find this no questions asked between them far more telling than who called 911, tho that's questionable, too.
Just Wondering

Sophia, WV

#44 Dec 4, 2013
It is also unbelievable that they did not run upstairs and awaken Burke and question him about his well-being, his sister and/or the note. The Ramseys were, apparently, very unorthodox parents.

I have read that Burke admits to being awake that morning but staying quiet so that no one would know he was aware of what was going on. Does that sound at all logical? Then again, he was John and Patsy's son. Why should we expect him to exhibit normal human reactions.

Since: May 11

AOL

#45 Dec 4, 2013
Just Wondering wrote:
It is also unbelievable that they did not run upstairs and awaken Burke and question him about his well-being, his sister and/or the note. The Ramseys were, apparently, very unorthodox parents.
I have read that Burke admits to being awake that morning but staying quiet so that no one would know he was aware of what was going on. Does that sound at all logical? Then again, he was John and Patsy's son. Why should we expect him to exhibit normal human reactions.
that shows he was afraid of his parents or didn't feel comfortable around there.

“WAX ON”

Since: Jul 10

WAX OFF

#46 Dec 5, 2013
To RT and JW -

I agree with both of you. It isn't always the interpretation of what did happen, but the "taking note" of what didn't happen that is very telling.
The Truth Hurts

Farmington, MI

#47 Dec 6, 2013
realTopaz wrote:
<quoted text>
that shows he was afraid of his parents or didn't feel comfortable around there.
Or else it shows that he was told to stay in his room that morning.

Judged:

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Report Abuse Judge it!

Since: Nov 13

Location hidden

#48 Dec 7, 2013
Anti-K wrote:
<quoted text>
Before getting into the window evidence, I’d like to point out that I did not include any of that in my evidence consistent with intruder theory. Anyway...
You’ve confused me. If he told them that he checked the doors and windows – I don’t remember the part where he said anything that morning about the windows – and that the doors were locked, then he would, by inference, be saying that there must have been a forcible entry. So, how did Mr Ramsey first try “to make sure they didn't think anyone forcibly entered the home?”
Nothing had to be staged as far as entry/exit is concerned. All he had to do was say that there were unlocked doors! If he felt the need to stage something he could have simply raised the garage door a couple feet – the door joining house/garage was routinely left open.
I have done as you suggested and re-read Docg’s blog re: window. It’s worse than I remember, but still amusing and cute. Which aspect of it has you most impressed? Which parts do you agree with?
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AK
I agree JR is lying. He seems confused and uncertain about something that would stand out in his memory. He took of his shoes, took off his suite, put his shoes back on, jumped down the window well, kicked out the window, but he tells it in a stumbling way as if the details are fuzzy. More importantly he can't quite recall whether or not he took a cab. He did or didn't. Not much recall power needed. He of course can't have driven his own car, otherwise he's got his keys. But then he should be definite on taking a cab, or getting a ride from a truck driver, etc. It's quite apparent he's lying.

I do like your point that he could have unlocked a door to provide an entry point for the mythical intruder. He didn't.

I also can't beleive LHP and her handyman husband didn't know about a window that had been broken for months. Not believable.

Claiming that all the doors/windows were locked doesn't infer a forced break in, exclusively. It also infers someone with a key. He does mention to the police that it must have been an inside job.

Then of course JR claims he found the window frame ajar, and closed it, before the police saw it. But he neglects to tell the police this until 4/97. Hard to believe that detail slipped his mind the morning police were in his house investigating the kidnapping of his daughter.

I read what you said on your thread about the window. You are relying quite heavily on poor memory as an excuse for the things JR says. It's hard for me to believe his memory is that bad.
Steve Eller

Bronx, NY

#49 Dec 7, 2013
Anti-K wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course, I didn’t say that the "experts" couldn't be fooled by disguised handwriting. I said,“I like to think that credible experts would not NECESSARILY be fooled...” IIRC, a expert did not identify Wolf, but rather said that he could not be ruled out. I would not describe those experts who identified Karr, etc as being credible.
On the issue of choice: a Ramsey could have chosen to do something other than fake a kidnapping, but let’s go along with that decision. They could have chosen to leave a shorter note, a few words scrawled on the back of a scrap piece of wrapping paper.
Yes, I believe that the intruder was probably a stranger to the family.
I have posted several possibilities for an intruder to leave note and body; post 6 – 9: http://tinyurl.com/n6bhqmb
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AK
I concede one point and that is that you have become remarkably skilled in "walking back" comments.
Steve Eller

Bronx, NY

#50 Dec 7, 2013
Just Wondering wrote:
It is also unbelievable that they did not run upstairs and awaken Burke and question him about his well-being, his sister and/or the note. The Ramseys were, apparently, very unorthodox parents.
I have read that Burke admits to being awake that morning but staying quiet so that no one would know he was aware of what was going on. Does that sound at all logical? Then again, he was John and Patsy's son. Why should we expect him to exhibit normal human reactions.
This is one of the stronges pieces of circumstantial evidence in the case. Innocent parents would have chained their child by their side if they thought that their other child had been kidnapped.

Since: Oct 08

Location hidden

#51 Dec 7, 2013
Delta88 wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree JR is lying. He seems confused and uncertain about something that would stand out in his memory. He took of his shoes, took off his suite, put his shoes back on, jumped down the window well, kicked out the window, but he tells it in a stumbling way as if the details are fuzzy. More importantly he can't quite recall whether or not he took a cab. He did or didn't. Not much recall power needed. He of course can't have driven his own car, otherwise he's got his keys. But then he should be definite on taking a cab, or getting a ride from a truck driver, etc. It's quite apparent he's lying.
I do like your point that he could have unlocked a door to provide an entry point for the mythical intruder. He didn't.
I also can't beleive LHP and her handyman husband didn't know about a window that had been broken for months. Not believable.
Claiming that all the doors/windows were locked doesn't infer a forced break in, exclusively. It also infers someone with a key. He does mention to the police that it must have been an inside job.
Then of course JR claims he found the window frame ajar, and closed it, before the police saw it. But he neglects to tell the police this until 4/97. Hard to believe that detail slipped his mind the morning police were in his house investigating the kidnapping of his daughter.
I read what you said on your thread about the window. You are relying quite heavily on poor memory as an excuse for the things JR says. It's hard for me to believe his memory is that bad.
Maybe we could discuss your concerns about memory and the window on the other thread? I posted there before reading here and may have already addressed some of what you raise here.

Claiming an “inside job” is not something a Ramsey would do if they wished it direct suspicion towards an intruder. An “inside job” ultimately directs investigators towards the Ramseys. It would be insane.
...

AK

Since: Nov 13

Location hidden

#52 Dec 8, 2013
Anti-K wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe we could discuss your concerns about memory and the window on the other thread? I posted there before reading here and may have already addressed some of what you raise here.
Claiming an “inside job” is not something a Ramsey would do if they wished it direct suspicion towards an intruder. An “inside job” ultimately directs investigators towards the Ramseys. It would be insane.
...
AK
But claiming it must have been an inside job is something that JR did in fact do.

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#54 Dec 9, 2013
The Truth Hurts wrote:
<quoted text>
Or else it shows that he was told to stay in his room that morning.
Hi there,

Good to see you posting.

That is what I believe as well. We know Burke was awake and we know that after the note and the hysterics, neither parent, NEITHER PARENT (worth repeating and the caps) went to their son, the ONLY other person who MIGHT know something or had HEARD something, the ONLY other person who slept on the same floor as JBR.

As LE said above, sometimes the things that were NOT done are the most telling

While we can hear the "every person reacts differently" or the myriad of other rationales for that, anyone who has children SHOULD be RIDICULOUSLY suspicious of that fact; well, GOOD parents

Who does that? Who wakes up to find one child missing and does NOT disturb the other in case he has information?

NOBODY, that's who

Since: Oct 08

Location hidden

#56 Dec 9, 2013
Delta88 wrote:
<quoted text>
But claiming it must have been an inside job is something that JR did in fact do.
Yes, he did.

Was it you that posted a while back, maybe on a different thread, that to call the police was “to give up the body?” Saying that it was “an inside job” is essentially the same thing in that a guilty person would not be likely to do either! A guilty person would want to misdirect and cast suspicion away, not towards! So, Mr Ramsey’s “inside job” utterance is consistent with an intruder theory.
...

AK

Since: May 11

AOL

#57 Dec 9, 2013
Anti-K wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, he did.
Was it you that posted a while back, maybe on a different thread, that to call the police was “to give up the body?” Saying that it was “an inside job” is essentially the same thing in that a guilty person would not be likely to do either! A guilty person would want to misdirect and cast suspicion away, not towards! So, Mr Ramsey’s “inside job” utterance is consistent with an intruder theory.
...
AK
I find it very interesting that at that moment of supposed shock, JR had clarity of mind enough to make an assessment of the situation. Especially since he had ALL MORNING to read the note and weigh in, but of course, did not. Suddenly holding the cold, stiff body of his missing 6 yr old got him to thinking? LOL what a piece of work!

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#58 Dec 11, 2013
realTopaz wrote:
<quoted text>
I find it very interesting that at that moment of supposed shock, JR had clarity of mind enough to make an assessment of the situation. Especially since he had ALL MORNING to read the note and weigh in, but of course, did not. Suddenly holding the cold, stiff body of his missing 6 yr old got him to thinking? LOL what a piece of work!
That was always one of the things that stood out and I agree. John managed to have clarity when he needed to. He had all morning to wander, read his mail, make arrangements with his pilot, make calls, etc. Not once had it EVER been reported that he went over to his WIFE or his other LIVING child to either give or receive comfort. That is unheard of!

I can't speak for everyone, but one of the things that was a big red flag was the fact that the Ramseys themselves pretty much ignored each other during that crucial and horrific time.

Where I come from and the people I know, usually the first people they turn to is their loved ones and NOT their neighbors or pediatrician! "Most" people would have been with their spouse and other loved ones for comfort

They were always surrounded by buffers during and after the crime

Since: May 11

AOL

#59 Dec 11, 2013
Capricorn wrote:
<quoted text>
That was always one of the things that stood out and I agree. John managed to have clarity when he needed to. He had all morning to wander, read his mail, make arrangements with his pilot, make calls, etc. Not once had it EVER been reported that he went over to his WIFE or his other LIVING child to either give or receive comfort. That is unheard of!
I can't speak for everyone, but one of the things that was a big red flag was the fact that the Ramseys themselves pretty much ignored each other during that crucial and horrific time.
Where I come from and the people I know, usually the first people they turn to is their loved ones and NOT their neighbors or pediatrician! "Most" people would have been with their spouse and other loved ones for comfort
They were always surrounded by buffers during and after the crime
Hi Cap:D
Yeah, interesting..to say the least. Interesting that he'd 'stumble' onto a corpse and look around long enough to see a blanket and form the opinion that it was "an inside job" because of the blanket, yet his focus was her wristcords and how "I couldn't stand to see her that way". Lots of thinking on his part and very interesting that it came to him when he was allegedly shocked.(I was robbed one time and couldn't speak for hours, let alone consider the thief's motivation or that he must have cared because he didn't take the whole house) The BPD are either dumb as rocks or they let JR sail because they were told to. If I were Linda Arndt..well, we saw what happened to her for thinking, so never mind;)
Portfolio

Las Vegas, NV

#61 Dec 11, 2013
BrotherMoon wrote:
John had nothing to do with the death of JonBenet, the ransom note or what was done to the body.
Good point Moon, We all know it was a IDI. The DNA shows it to be a white unknown male. It good to see you are on board. You have done some very good work here and we all know the DNA is the facts.

Good Post!!!!!
icedtea4me

Saint Louis, MO

#63 Dec 11, 2013
Lynette 22 wrote:
<quoted text>Excellent posts, AK! You have very nicely summarised most of the reasons I believe IDI. As regards missing items, here's another to add to the list; if John broke the basement window THAT NIGHT, as many RDI believe, rather than months before as he said, what became of the broken glass?
Would it have been physically impossible to have tossed the broken glass down the sewer outside?

“WAX ON”

Since: Jul 10

WAX OFF

#64 Dec 12, 2013
There is nothing consistent with an intruder theory, much less John's 'utterance' as you call it. This tells me you have read the posts about 'excited utterances', and it is the next hair you are going to attempt to split.

You used to be better at concealing your true intentions to mislead and misdirect.
Anti-K wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, he did.
Was it you that posted a while back, maybe on a different thread, that to call the police was “to give up the body?” Saying that it was “an inside job” is essentially the same thing in that a guilty person would not be likely to do either! A guilty person would want to misdirect and cast suspicion away, not towards! So, Mr Ramsey’s “inside job” utterance is consistent with an intruder theory.
...
AK

“WAX ON”

Since: Jul 10

WAX OFF

#66 Dec 12, 2013
But you won't run out of stuff to copy and paste, will you bannedmoon?

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