John Douglas
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Indigo

Falmouth, ME

#1 Jan 18, 2007
I do believe John Douglas is confessing! To knowing the Ramseys did it, that is...the following case has too many similarites to the Ramsey case to ignore. Ah, the subconcious mind. Note also that just before this subject is introduced, John Douglas mentions being hired for the OJ case. THIS IS JUST MY OPINION. Talk amongst yourselves!:)

Take the 1980 murder of Linda Dover in Carterville, Ga. Recently divorced, Dover was found in the crawl space of her husband's home, wrapped in a blanket, pants down, manually strangled and stabbed with a kitchen knife.

Enter CSI: UVSC.

"The first suspect is always the husband," a student yelled from the balcony.

"Tell me why it was the husband," Douglas challenged back.

"The murderer had to know the house so he could stuff her in this crawl space," another student surmised. "Plus, manual strangulation means a close relationship."

"Nice, but give me more," Douglas says, casting a shadow over the PowerPoint slideshow photo of the bloody body. "Why wouldn't he leave her upstairs, where he killed her? Why cover it up?"

"The boy, he didn't want the boy to see what he had done."

And just like that, case closed. Dover's husband had murdered his ex-wife, pulled down her pants to stage a sexual assault, and stuffed the body in the crawl space to avoid his little boy's eyes.

http://www.heraldextra.com/content/view/20728...
Patricia Fox

Hogansville, GA

#2 Jan 18, 2007
Indigo wrote:
I do believe John Douglas is confessing! To knowing the Ramseys did it, that is...the following case has too many similarites to the Ramsey case to ignore. Ah, the subconcious mind. Note also that just before this subject is introduced, John Douglas mentions being hired for the OJ case. THIS IS JUST MY OPINION. Talk amongst yourselves!:)
Take the 1980 murder of Linda Dover in Carterville, Ga. Recently divorced, Dover was found in the crawl space of her husband's home, wrapped in a blanket, pants down, manually strangled and stabbed with a kitchen knife.
Enter CSI: UVSC.
"The first suspect is always the husband," a student yelled from the balcony.
"Tell me why it was the husband," Douglas challenged back.
"The murderer had to know the house so he could stuff her in this crawl space," another student surmised. "Plus, manual strangulation means a close relationship."
"Nice, but give me more," Douglas says, casting a shadow over the PowerPoint slideshow photo of the bloody body. "Why wouldn't he leave her upstairs, where he killed her? Why cover it up?"
"The boy, he didn't want the boy to see what he had done."
And just like that, case closed. Dover's husband had murdered his ex-wife, pulled down her pants to stage a sexual assault, and stuffed the body in the crawl space to avoid his little boy's eyes.
http://www.heraldextra.com/content/view/20728...
I read this also today and thought it VERY INTERESTING...

Also, John Douglas was soundly criticized by many other FBI agents for his opinions on this case.
Patricia Fox

Hogansville, GA

#3 Jan 18, 2007
Patricia Fox wrote:
<quoted text>I read this also today and thought it VERY INTERESTING...
Also, John Douglas was soundly criticized by many other FBI agents for his opinions on this case.
JonBenet case, of course, is the one I am referring too about his being criticized by fellow FBI profilers.
Autumn

AOL

#4 Jan 19, 2007
Patricia Fox wrote:
<quoted text>JonBenet case, of course, is the one I am referring too about his being criticized by fellow FBI profilers.
And, he still stands by his opinion.... He believes the Ramsey's are innocent... You should read the cases that haunt us... He gives the parent's did it scenario's a try......:0)

The other profilers were basing their opinions on speculation J. Douglas was the only one who actually interviewed the Ramsey's and didn't just buy into the BPD theory without any evidence to support it.... There still isn't any evidence to support a case against the Ramsey's....

“If life gives you melons”

Since: Nov 06

You might be dyslexic

#5 Jan 19, 2007
Autumn wrote:
<quoted text>
J. Douglas was the only one who actually interviewed the Ramsey's and didn't just buy into the BPD theory without any evidence to support it....
Why, when he is adamant about interviewing multiple witnesses separately, did he break his own rule and interview the Ramseys together? I think he compromised what he believes in as a profiler.
Indigo

Falmouth, ME

#6 Jan 19, 2007
Autumn wrote:
<quoted text>
And, he still stands by his opinion.... He believes the Ramsey's are innocent... You should read the cases that haunt us... He gives the parent's did it scenario's a try......:0)
The other profilers were basing their opinions on speculation J. Douglas was the only one who actually interviewed the Ramsey's and didn't just buy into the BPD theory without any evidence to support it.... There still isn't any evidence to support a case against the Ramsey's....
I've read all of John Douglas' profiling books and own two of them, inlcuding "The Cases That Haunt Us." From that, I can see that JD hasn't followed his own rules with the Ramsey case. On his forum, I read that he is going on gut with this one, and that's his right.
Victory

Boynton Beach, FL

#7 Jan 19, 2007
Autumn wrote:
<quoted text>
And, he still stands by his opinion.... He believes the Ramsey's are innocent... You should read the cases that haunt us... He gives the parent's did it scenario's a try......:0)
The other profilers were basing their opinions on speculation J. Douglas was the only one who actually interviewed the Ramsey's and didn't just buy into the BPD theory without any evidence to support it.... There still isn't any evidence to support a case against the Ramsey's....
At the same time, a Boulder jury did not indict anyone for lack of evidence, and a federal judge ruled that the evidence pointed toward an intruder. Here we have an experienced profiler in John Douglas, a local jury, and a federal judge who indicate an intruder murdered JonBenét, and posters who disregard these judgements all together. Just doesn't make sense to me. If some of those RDI theorists would take time to go down another road, we just might find justice here.
Kimberly

AOL

#8 Jan 19, 2007
Indigo wrote:
I do believe John Douglas is confessing! To knowing the Ramseys did it, that is...the following case has too many similarites to the Ramsey case to ignore. Ah, the subconcious mind. Note also that just before this subject is introduced, John Douglas mentions being hired for the OJ case. THIS IS JUST MY OPINION. Talk amongst yourselves!:)
Take the 1980 murder of Linda Dover in Carterville, Ga. Recently divorced, Dover was found in the crawl space of her husband's home, wrapped in a blanket, pants down, manually strangled and stabbed with a kitchen knife.
Enter CSI: UVSC.
"The first suspect is always the husband," a student yelled from the balcony.
"Tell me why it was the husband," Douglas challenged back.
"The murderer had to know the house so he could stuff her in this crawl space," another student surmised. "Plus, manual strangulation means a close relationship."
"Nice, but give me more," Douglas says, casting a shadow over the PowerPoint slideshow photo of the bloody body. "Why wouldn't he leave her upstairs, where he killed her? Why cover it up?"
"The boy, he didn't want the boy to see what he had done."
And just like that, case closed. Dover's husband had murdered his ex-wife, pulled down her pants to stage a sexual assault, and stuffed the body in the crawl space to avoid his little boy's eyes.
http://www.heraldextra.com/content/view/20728...
I won't criticize John Douglas for taking money to 'profile' for John Ramsey until I know that no other profiler has ever 'profiled' for a murder suspect before. I have never heard of this, but maybe it's done all the time? Any info on that?
How much does John Douglas cost?
Indigo

Falmouth, ME

#9 Jan 19, 2007
Kimberly wrote:
<quoted text>
I won't criticize John Douglas for taking money to 'profile' for John Ramsey until I know that no other profiler has ever 'profiled' for a murder suspect before. I have never heard of this, but maybe it's done all the time? Any info on that?
How much does John Douglas cost?
Harlan Wittenstein, Wittenstein & Associates, Brooklyn, N.Y.
I had a premises liability case where my client was raped by a burglar who entered through a window with a broken lock. The broken lock was not in contention. However, the defense hired a former FBI profiler who testified that the defendant was such a sociopath that he would have entered through the window even if it were not broken. So I hired his boss, also a former FBI profiler, who refuted his entire testimony and claimed that the defendant's expert's testimony was too speculative because the rapist had never even been arrested and interviewed.
http://www.verdictsearch.com/jv3_verdictsearc...
Indigo

Falmouth, ME

#10 Jan 19, 2007
Kimberly wrote:
<quoted text>
I won't criticize John Douglas for taking money to 'profile' for John Ramsey until I know that no other profiler has ever 'profiled' for a murder suspect before. I have never heard of this, but maybe it's done all the time? Any info on that?
How much does John Douglas cost?
My earlier post is all I can come up with. I can't find anything about profiling for a murder suspect...is this a first? I sincerly doubt most murder suspects can afford his fee.
Indigo

Falmouth, ME

#11 Jan 19, 2007
Focus was not on Patsy

Shorty II from Michigan: Mr. Douglas, thank you for chatting with us. Can you tell us if you are still employed by the Ramsey family? Has working with this particular case in any way modified the profiles that you have defined during your career?


John Douglas: I haven't had contact with the Ramsey attorneys for approximately nine months. I still believe that this is a crime where the perpetrator knows the family as well as the victim very well. My focus when I was in Boulder, Colorado, was primarily on John Ramsey, because I was told there was evidence of semen found on her clothing. As a result, after a four-to-five hour interview with John Ramsey, I did not believe that the criteria were present that I've seen in other cases where parents, particularly a father, has killed his child. In as much as my focus was not on Patsy Ramsey, I can not state whether or not she possibly could have been involved in the homicide. I'm not saying that I believe she possibly is a suspect but that my focus never was on her during the first week of January 1997.


http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/i...
Kimberly

AOL

#12 Jan 19, 2007
Indigo wrote:
<quoted text>
Harlan Wittenstein, Wittenstein & Associates, Brooklyn, N.Y.
I had a premises liability case where my client was raped by a burglar who entered through a window with a broken lock. The broken lock was not in contention. However, the defense hired a former FBI profiler who testified that the defendant was such a sociopath that he would have entered through the window even if it were not broken. So I hired his boss, also a former FBI profiler, who refuted his entire testimony and claimed that the defendant's expert's testimony was too speculative because the rapist had never even been arrested and interviewed.
http://www.verdictsearch.com/jv3_verdictsearc...
Thank you Indigo:D LOL about the profiler's assessment, he was worth every dime. How much do they cost?
Autumn

AOL

#13 Jan 19, 2007
Victory wrote:
<quoted text>
At the same time, a Boulder jury did not indict anyone for lack of evidence, and a federal judge ruled that the evidence pointed toward an intruder. Here we have an experienced profiler in John Douglas, a local jury, and a federal judge who indicate an intruder murdered JonBenét, and posters who disregard these judgements all together. Just doesn't make sense to me. If some of those RDI theorists would take time to go down another road, we just might find justice here.
I agree...:0)

If anyone in LE had the evidence against the Ramsey's that the RDI's seem to think they do... I have to wonder why Burke was allowed to remain in their custody... It would have been very easy to remove him before the case went to the grand jury... It's strange that nobody at the BPD even tried to protect him from such evil people who would do such a thing to their youngest and most defenseless daughter... Of course they would have needed to back up their request to remove Burke with proof that the Ramsey's did this...... So I guess we all know why Burke remained in their custody without a fight or even a suggestion from the BPD or child protective services that he be removed...
Jim

Supply, NC

#14 May 18, 2015
I am suspicious of Hamaidan Al-Turki in the Ramsey Case. Someone stated on one site that Al-Qaeda couldn't have been the "small foreign faction" in 1996. Al-Turki was involved in or an observer to the 1994 bin Laden font that established secure communications thru Denver using US Army lines. Now he is in prison for having an Indonesian sex slave. Mr. Clements with the prison system denied his transfer. So then he was MURDERED by a wrongfully released prisoner. Well, well. There is an attorney who's last name begins with an "H" who is connected to Al-Turki AND the Ramsey case! In the ransom note there is a threat to behead her, which is so Saudi. It seems that even having Al-Turki in prison here has been a nightmare for the gov't because of the Saudi connection. So that could be why you will hear an announcer say the case will NEVER be solved. Some parts of the ransom note are thought to have come from American movies. That would be the place to learn about America if you were part of a small foreign faction like the Saudi community in Boulder.

Since: Dec 14

Location hidden

#18 Apr 8, 2016
Interesting that John Douglas actually interviewed both PR and JR at the same time but was really only focused on JR. He actually states in the article sited in Post 11 he can't state for certain she was not involved. He also never interviewed BR. So he really only eliminated JR in what other qualified profilers claim was not the preferred or usual style interview which would have been to have him alone, not accompanied by his wife. I stand by my statement of not agreeing with his opinion and feel confident in doing so.

Since: Dec 14

Location hidden

#22 Apr 9, 2016
Ex-fbi Profiler Studied Father In Colo. Slaying * John Douglas Said Jonbenet Ramsey's Parents Hired Him To Assess Whether John Ramsey Was Capable Of Killing His Daughter.

March 11, 1997|by JOHN P. MARTIN, The Morning Call

Attorneys for the parents of slain Colorado beauty princess JonBenet Ramsey hired former FBI profiler John Douglas to assess whether John Ramsey was capable of killing his daughter, Douglas said Monday.

"They weren't sure. They weren't sure themselves," Douglas said of the attorneys during a news conference before a lecture at Kutztown University

http://articles.mcall.com/1997-03-11/news/312...
berrytea333

Saint Louis, MO

#24 Apr 9, 2016
jameson245 wrote:
John Douglas believes an intruder did this.
The person who started this thread might enjoy the Ramsey case books that study the reverse speech and those by Hodges, a BORG storyteller who fascinated his readers long ago. Mother gone BAD -- he had a lot of help from disgruntled ex-Ramssey-Friend, Judith Phillips
I'd say he more help from John and Patsy.
berrytea333

Saint Louis, MO

#25 Apr 9, 2016
My last post should read: I'd say he had more help from John and Patsy.
robert

Yellowknife, Canada

#26 Apr 9, 2016
Jolamom wrote:
Ex-fbi Profiler Studied Father In Colo. Slaying * John Douglas Said Jonbenet Ramsey's Parents Hired Him To Assess Whether John Ramsey Was Capable Of Killing His Daughter.
March 11, 1997|by JOHN P. MARTIN, The Morning Call
Attorneys for the parents of slain Colorado beauty princess JonBenet Ramsey hired former FBI profiler John Douglas to assess whether John Ramsey was capable of killing his daughter, Douglas said Monday.
"They weren't sure. They weren't sure themselves," Douglas said of the attorneys during a news conference before a lecture at Kutztown University
http://articles.mcall.com/1997-03-11/news/312...
-- This link tells me more of John Dougless role in this case more than I have known before-- Its was Johns attorneys who hired JD to profile John 'only' to assess to see if John was capable of killing JB--- It goes on to relate the credenticals of Douglas as haveing interviewed notorious crimenals as ,Bundy and a few more-- I say so what,, and ask if he would have interviewed these chacters before they was known crimenals , what assessment would he have made of Bundy and the like?-- I know John Ramsey is not in that same catigory as BTK, Bundy and the like -- But how would Douglas give John Ramsey a pass before anyone knew he killed JB. Bet an interview conducted by douglas of Ted Bundy before his 1st victem would be assessed as incapible
'

Since: Dec 14

Location hidden

#27 Apr 9, 2016
jameson245 wrote:
John Douglas believes an intruder did this.
The person who started this thread might enjoy the Ramsey case books that study the reverse speech and those by Hodges, a BORG storyteller who fascinated his readers long ago. Mother gone BAD -- he had a lot of help from disgruntled ex-Ramssey-Friend, Judith Phillips
I was not suggesting John Douglas thought any different. I posted this article because I thought it was interesting to note why he was initially hired. I have also found it interesting that he deviated from standard practices when he interviewed both JR and PR together.(I wonder why he chose to do that, since it was not received well by his peers) He also stated he focused his interview on JR and made no determination on PR.(His words, not mine) so he never really concluded anything about PR's involvement. He also never interviewed BR so he could never make any statements concerning him one was or the other either.

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