On Mexico: A failed state?

On Mexico: A failed state?

There are 62 comments on the Dallas Morning News story from Oct 22, 2011, titled On Mexico: A failed state?. In it, Dallas Morning News reports that:

In order to maintain their power, the cartels have to produce more, buy more weapons, pay more bribes and rid themselves of more opposition and competition.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Dallas Morning News.

Sirius

Querétaro, Mexico

#49 Oct 23, 2013
A video I posted before, but it shows how Mexico is really the Somaliland of the Americas...

Level 6

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#50 Oct 23, 2013
Sirius wrote:
<quoted text>
Honestly, Mexico is not one of the largest economies of the World. It is number 11 by PPP, and it has been more or less so since the 70s... even when it traded and had much less contact with the USA in any sense.
In reality not much has changed for Mexico... it has, so to say it, a long term way of being.
You don't consider being #11 out of 196 countries as not one of the largest economies?

No wonder Mexico is so screwed up given that kind of thinking.
Sirius

Querétaro, Mexico

#51 Oct 23, 2013
By population, Mexico should be by now above France and the UK (with respect to that countries).

But OK, lets wait, say, 10 years...
Manik

Sugar Land, TX

#52 Oct 25, 2013
Sirius wrote:
<quoted text>
Honestly, Mexico is not one of the largest economies of the World. It is number 11 by PPP, and it has been more or less so since the 70s... even when it traded and had much less contact with the USA in any sense.
In reality not much has changed for Mexico... it has, so to say it, a long term way of being.
Mexico has 14th largest economy per GDP....... I don't hate Mexico I just hate Chicanos
Mexican

Oakland, CA

#53 Oct 28, 2013
ima- Ilis Myka Ashanti wrote:
Mexico is not a failed state, it's a failed country.
You're a failed booger!
Mexican

Oakland, CA

#54 Oct 28, 2013
Manik wrote:
<quoted text>
Mexico has 14th largest economy per GDP....... I don't hate Mexico I just hate Chicanos
What's a Chicano?
Jesus Malverde

Las Vegas, NV

#56 Oct 29, 2013
Manik wrote:
<quoted text>
Mexico has 14th largest economy per GDP....... I don't hate Mexico I just hate Chicanos
The use of the word, Chicano is tacky, and so 1960's. L:OL

Level 6

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#57 Oct 29, 2013
Jesus Malverde wrote:
<quoted text>
The use of the word, Chicano is tacky, and so 1960's. L:OL
Apparently, enforcing our immigration laws is too.
Sirius

Querétaro, Mexico

#58 Oct 29, 2013
Manik wrote:
<quoted text>
Mexico has 14th largest economy per GDP...
Nominal... but if you corret by purchasing power, is 11th.

Mexico do not appreciate artificially its currency.
Manik

Sugar Land, TX

#59 Oct 31, 2013
Mexican wrote:
<quoted text>
What's a Chicano?
Google Nortenos in Northern Cali that's what Chicanos are
Mohammad Khan

Sugar Land, TX

#60 Oct 31, 2013
Sirius wrote:
<quoted text>
Nominal... but if you corret by purchasing power, is 11th.
Mexico do not appreciate artificially its currency.
Thanks bro but what I'm still stuck on is why Mexico is not considered a failed state. I mean there is too much violence, too many drugs being sold in the US, billions of refugees getting into the US illegally if you look up Wikipedia you can see Mexico is not on the failed state list. I'm not sure why it seems pretty biased that Funding for peace has to label Pakistan (I'm Pakistani) which hardly has any violence as failed and let Mexico considered to be a stable nation. I would really love to know your reply. Thanks:)
Eduardo

Mexico

#61 Oct 31, 2013
Mohammad Khan wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks bro but what I'm still stuck on is why Mexico is not considered a failed state. I mean there is too much violence, too many drugs being sold in the US, billions of refugees getting into the US illegally if you look up Wikipedia you can see Mexico is not on the failed state list. I'm not sure why it seems pretty biased that Funding for peace has to label Pakistan (I'm Pakistani) which hardly has any violence as failed and let Mexico considered to be a stable nation. I would really love to know your reply. Thanks:)
Now you are contradicting yourself, you are calling refugees "illegals" someone considered a refugee is not an illegal, then you could say that USA downplays the situation in Mexico to avoid having to grant asylum to large numbers of Mexicans, if that's the way you want to see it.

I know that Canada routinely denies refuge to Mexicans asking asylum on the grounds that they "can'´t grant asylum to people running away from Mexico because [they] don't condemn the Mexican government", for example.
Eduardo

Mexico

#62 Oct 31, 2013
Mohammad Khan wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks bro but what I'm still stuck on is why Mexico is not considered a failed state. I mean there is too much violence, too many drugs being sold in the US, billions of refugees getting into the US illegally if you look up Wikipedia you can see Mexico is not on the failed state list. I'm not sure why it seems pretty biased that Funding for peace has to label Pakistan (I'm Pakistani) which hardly has any violence as failed and let Mexico considered to be a stable nation. I would really love to know your reply. Thanks:)
In fact, your very post is already begins very partial and relies on exaggerations:

- if USA consumes large amounts of drugs why would that lower Mexico's failed state index score. Drugs don't magically teleport from the border to the consumer, if drug consumption really lowers the failed state index of countries USA would be a good place to start.
- Is not "billions" because there aren't even "billions" of Mexicans only the Indians and the Chinese number more than a Billion each.
- Failed state index doesn't depend on the level of violence, which in Mexico would be higher than in Pakistan and lower than in Puerto Rico. It depends on the credibility of a dejure government as the defacto ruler of a country, based on their capacity to provide basic services to their population how much control they really have over the territory. Separatist groups that control the territory they claim, sectarian violence, inter-ethnic violence, interference of foreign powers with impunity, high illiteracy, famine... all of that supposedly accumulates in your failed state index.
Sirius

Querétaro, Mexico

#63 Oct 31, 2013
Mohammad Khan wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks bro but what I'm still stuck on is why Mexico is not considered a failed state.
Hello, again.

I correct you: In the USA, most people DO CONSIDER Mexico as a failed State, and that is what most of their media feeds to them. Or at least, centering only in the negative of our country, that is most of what they could be expected to believe (who could blame them?).

You yourself, insist that Mexico is a failed state, and claim that the situation of Pakistan is better, isn't it? I for my part could find arguments to believe that no, that Mexico is better to Pakistan in many dimentions.

But... the truth, at the very bottom, is that I believe that we are unfair to one another, because we choose to take as reference what the US media shows to us. There are not many Mexican journalists in Pakistan, and vise-versa, I believe. There is not a direct undestanding Mexico-Pakistan, Pakistan-Mexico... we see each other throwgh a deformed lens of US propaganda, which is done for certain interests.

First I want to clarify that... that we should not (even if we do so) to discuss our flaws to show the "Americans" who is best, and who has the greatests flaws between us (Mexico & Pakistan) only because we have more contact with them than between us.
I'm not sure why it seems pretty biased that Funding for peace has to label Pakistan (I'm Pakistani) which hardly has any violence as failed and let Mexico considered to be a stable nation. I would really love to know your reply. Thanks:)
"Because someone pays them?"

(Sorry, I have not a better answer than that question.)

Now, trying to be constructive, I think that if you want an objective measure of "state-failness" you have to construct it and sell it yourself... I mean, as individual or as a country.

Now, I don't go deep in your exagerations about "billions" of Mexicans in the USA. The number of Mexicans in the USA is much more clear:

20 million of Chicanos (descendants from Mexicans in the USA).
9 millon of legal immigrants.
6.5 million illegals.

I think that that hardly amount to "billions". You have to take into account, than half of Hispanics in the USA have other origins, like Puerto Ricans, Cubans, South Americans... that many people confound at first sight with "Mexicans".

Regarding violence, Mexico has the same level of violence as Syria... but, Mexico is much, much bigger and populated, and violence is concentrated in very localized places. We have yearly 23 million international tourists each year (twice as Brazil and Argentina combined). So you see, is not has bad as it seems... or want to be shown.

Regards.
Mohammad Khan

Sugar Land, TX

#64 Nov 3, 2013
Eduardo wrote:
<quoted text>
In fact, your very post is already begins very partial and relies on exaggerations:
- if USA consumes large amounts of drugs why would that lower Mexico's failed state index score. Drugs don't magically teleport from the border to the consumer, if drug consumption really lowers the failed state index of countries USA would be a good place to start.
- Is not "billions" because there aren't even "billions" of Mexicans only the Indians and the Chinese number more than a Billion each.
- Failed state index doesn't depend on the level of violence, which in Mexico would be higher than in Pakistan and lower than in Puerto Rico. It depends on the credibility of a dejure government as the defacto ruler of a country, based on their capacity to provide basic services to their population how much control they really have over the territory. Separatist groups that control the territory they claim, sectarian violence, inter-ethnic violence, interference of foreign powers with impunity, high illiteracy, famine... all of that supposedly accumulates in your failed state index.
Hmmmmm not too convincing but getting there somewhat I've heard that Mexico has a separatist group known as the Zapatista who want independence from Mexico. Violence exists everywhere few of my Hispanic friends have told me that Mexican govt is highly corrupt and the Cartels are made up mainly by the govt. However many of them have told me that the Cartels are fake and they don't exist at all that it is all a media stunt. The US television does not talk or mention anything about Mexico at all especially not here in Houston, Texas. So pretty much Cartels do not or may not exist at all and probably just another US propaganda to exploit Mexico or Mexicans. Honestly Mexicans are very nice and I'm talking about the recent immigrants but it's these Spanish descended Chicanos who I despise the most.
Sirius

Querétaro, Mexico

#65 Nov 4, 2013
Mohammad Khan wrote:
<quoted text>
Hmmmmm not too convincing but getting there somewhat I've heard that Mexico has a separatist group known as the Zapatista who want independence from Mexico. Violence exists everywhere few of my Hispanic friends have told me that Mexican govt is highly corrupt and the Cartels are made up mainly by the govt. However many of them have told me that the Cartels are fake and they don't exist at all that it is all a media stunt. The US television does not talk or mention anything about Mexico at all especially not here in Houston, Texas. So pretty much Cartels do not or may not exist at all and probably just another US propaganda to exploit Mexico or Mexicans. Honestly Mexicans are very nice and I'm talking about the recent immigrants but it's these Spanish descended Chicanos who I despise the most.
First of all, let me thank you for giving us your points of view. For us Mexicans is very interesting to know the perspective of people from other cultures and backgrounds.

- The Zapatistas are indigenists that defend indians, although they evolved from a Marxists group of university students with other goals. I don't know if at some point they suported the idea of separating from Mexico. Chiapas was part of Guatemala. But I think that is not a central idea of them anymore.

- I believe that the cartels do exists. "Cartel" is simply a form of saying of a gang or a mafia. The bosses of this mafias include goverment people, who knows how far up. They battle each other to control territory and earn more money.

- Many interests are included here. The Zetas was a group of the Mexican Army that was trained in the USA (Fort Benning), and they went to the criminal world, I don't know why.

- In this shady world nothing is what it appears or wants to pretend to be. Recently was known that the CIA was involved in the killing of a DEA agent in Mexico in the 80s (check recent press news about Enrique Camarena Salazar).

- The things are infinitely more complicated because of differences in mentality, values and political views in different regions of Mexico. It will be very difficult for an average Mexican and near to imposible to a foreigner to have a clear view of what happens really in Mexico. I think that the same have to happen with Pakistan.

Thanks again for your giving us your point of view.
Mohammad Khan

Sugar Land, TX

#66 Nov 4, 2013
Sirius wrote:
<quoted text>
First of all, let me thank you for giving us your points of view. For us Mexicans is very interesting to know the perspective of people from other cultures and backgrounds.
- The Zapatistas are indigenists that defend indians, although they evolved from a Marxists group of university students with other goals. I don't know if at some point they suported the idea of separating from Mexico. Chiapas was part of Guatemala. But I think that is not a central idea of them anymore.
- I believe that the cartels do exists. "Cartel" is simply a form of saying of a gang or a mafia. The bosses of this mafias include goverment people, who knows how far up. They battle each other to control territory and earn more money.
- Many interests are included here. The Zetas was a group of the Mexican Army that was trained in the USA (Fort Benning), and they went to the criminal world, I don't know why.
- The things are infinitely more complicated because of differences in mentality, values and political views in different regions of Mexico. It will be very difficult for an average Mexican and near to imposible to a foreigner to have a clear view of what happens really in Mexico. I think that the same have to happen with Pakistan.
Thanks again for your giving us your point of view.
Thanks for the info the Taliban are basically political based but with religious mind. They are just like the Nazis of 21st century. Their main agenda is to conquer the world and convert everybody into Islam. However in the Koran (Not gonna go off topic) strictly forbids force conversions and therefore anyone that is forced into Islam will still be considered as their previous religion. I have heard about many Cartel bosses like El Chapo Guzman, Salazar and even the most notorious Colombian drug lord Pablo Escobar. Few of my friends have visited Mexico in fact when I lived in San Diego (Closer to Tijuana) I've visited there back in 1983 I haven't seen any violence or any sign of the Cartels. The city was also beautiful and very colorful. The people were also very nice and compassionate. My son went to Mexico with his newly wedded wife three years back and he didn't see or encounter any violence he also told me he had a great trip on his honeymoon. I don't think Cartels exist. The American CNN or FOX news does not come out with any news related to violence in Mexico as how they show towards Islamic countries. Honestly even here in the US I have never seen any gangs or any gang violence even if you were to go to rough neighborhoods. It now figures why Mexico is not on the failed state list :)
Mexican

Oakland, CA

#67 Nov 14, 2013
Manik wrote:
<quoted text>
Google Nortenos in Northern Cali that's what Chicanos are
Those are gang bangers.
Eduardo

Mexico

#70 Nov 21, 2013
Manik wrote:
<quoted text>
Those terms you've specified are showing on Human development so in another words a failed state= lack of human development thanks:)
Yeah, thanks for proving your ignorance. Mexico's HDI is .775 is probably higher than the HDI of your country of origin if your an immigrant yourself. and of the things I mentioned HDI only measures illiteracy, but it also counts many things I didn't mention for the failed state index like: life expentancy, and per capita income adjusted to income disparity.

There is a thing called google, people, research before posting.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#71 Nov 21, 2013
mexico is failed,if we shut our border with them pull our companies out as well as the hand outs and stop the wiring of funds stolen in the USA they would collapse.

go to mexico,all you see as good or modern came from the USA

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