Senators Reach Agreement On Overhauling Immigration

Jan 28, 2013 Full story: National Public Radio 584

A bipartisan group of leading senators has reached agreement on the principles of sweeping legislation to rewrite the nation's immigration laws.

Full Story
Level 5

Since: Sep 07

Location hidden

#227 Feb 7, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Where did I ever say I supported open borders?
I support ZERO immigration into the US; legal, illegal, or otherwise. Especially while we have 20+ million unemployed.
We're full.
Station troops on the borders with shoot to kill orders if necessary.
That said, we have to do something about the millions of illegals who are already here, and deporting them all simply isn't a realistic option.
the problem with dealing with the illegals already here is - we don't know how many there are.

another thing, if we do approve an amnesty, how would we be able to determine who actually fits the criteria that we decide upon for approval?

I mean... think about it some... these illegals. many of them lied and cheated to get into the usa with falsified documents. whatever. that's why they are illegal.

my gut feeling is - mass numbers who are not even here will appear out of the woodwork at the last minute with falsified documents proclaiming their eligibility for the amnesty.

how will we deal with that?

the bigger danger as I see it is not from the mexicans or those south of the border. but those from china and asia. we're talking in numbers above a billion.

granted, I don't think a billion would suddenly appear.. but between india and mainland alone, I could easily see tens of millions trying their luck.

if you study the link I provided in my previous post, you would see that the above scenario is not out of the park.

what would we do then? it would be a mess of huge dimensions.

because of this, I think it best we don't allow an amnesty. yes, the numbers you mentioned 10 of millions would be hard to deport. but I think a number 2+ times higher would be a far worst scenario to deal with.

logic dictates we save ourselves before trying to help others.

therefore. no amnesty.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#228 Feb 7, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>Tha's gonna put a damper on the vibe at teh sprinfg break beaches, won't it?
better to solve the problem of illegal hiring than treat the symptom of porous borders that can never be truly secured...
Our borders CAN be secured, we just choose not to. Do you think if we have armed Marines standing elbow-to-elbow along the border with shoot-to-kill orders that we can't prevent 99.9% of all illegal border crossings?

I agree hiring of illegals needs to be addressed, but without some kind of national biometric ID card it is too easy to forge the necessary documents. Also many employers simply look the other way and feign ignorance to pad their bottom line.

In addition, unless Americans are willing to take those low paying jobs, many businesses will simply relocate overseas where the cheap labor is.

We also need to stop issuing visas because almost HALF of all illegals currently in the country entered LEGALLY on a visa but just stayed once their visa expired.

So many problems, so few solutions.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#229 Feb 7, 2013
Asian Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
the problem with dealing with the illegals already here is - we don't know how many there are.
another thing, if we do approve an amnesty, how would we be able to determine who actually fits the criteria that we decide upon for approval?
I mean... think about it some... these illegals. many of them lied and cheated to get into the usa with falsified documents. whatever. that's why they are illegal.
my gut feeling is - mass numbers who are not even here will appear out of the woodwork at the last minute with falsified documents proclaiming their eligibility for the amnesty.
how will we deal with that?
the bigger danger as I see it is not from the mexicans or those south of the border. but those from china and asia. we're talking in numbers above a billion.
granted, I don't think a billion would suddenly appear.. but between india and mainland alone, I could easily see tens of millions trying their luck.
if you study the link I provided in my previous post, you would see that the above scenario is not out of the park.
what would we do then? it would be a mess of huge dimensions.
because of this, I think it best we don't allow an amnesty. yes, the numbers you mentioned 10 of millions would be hard to deport. but I think a number 2+ times higher would be a far worst scenario to deal with.
logic dictates we save ourselves before trying to help others.
therefore. no amnesty.
The simple realty is that without some form of amnesty- or path to citizenship- there will never be any agreement passed. Our borders will remain pourous, illegals will remain in the country, and millions more will keep coming.

That's why it has to be an entire package deal- border security, amnesty, visas, hiring verification, etc. Anything else is simply politically unworkable.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#230 Feb 7, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Our borders CAN be secured, we just choose not to. Do you think if we have armed Marines standing elbow-to-elbow along the border with shoot-to-kill orders that we can't prevent 99.9% of all illegal border crossings?
I agree hiring of illegals needs to be addressed, but without some kind of national biometric ID card it is too easy to forge the necessary documents. Also many employers simply look the other way and feign ignorance to pad their bottom line.
In addition, unless Americans are willing to take those low paying jobs, many businesses will simply relocate overseas where the cheap labor is.
We also need to stop issuing visas because almost HALF of all illegals currently in the country entered LEGALLY on a visa but just stayed once their visa expired.
So many problems, so few solutions.
Well, like I stated, those marines would need to be shoulder to shoulder all along our coasts also.(i think they might be distracted a tad bit by the spring break girls going wild...)

and, like you stated, that wouldn't stop the illegals you mentioned here on legal visa's that have expired...

Again, if we solve the problem then we don't need to waste that HUGE amount of money to treat the symptom of our porous borders, which is really impractical to do....

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#231 Feb 7, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>Well, like I stated, those marines would need to be shoulder to shoulder all along our coasts also.(i think they might be distracted a tad bit by the spring break girls going wild...)
and, like you stated, that wouldn't stop the illegals you mentioned here on legal visa's that have expired...
Again, if we solve the problem then we don't need to waste that HUGE amount of money to treat the symptom of our porous borders, which is really impractical to do....
Our porous borders ARE part of the problem. If they can't get here in the first place, that takes care of half the new illegals entering every year.

I am curious how you think it can be solved without sealing our borders?

Once they are here there isn't much we can do about it. We've never deported any significant percentage of illegals residing here. Even our courts have ruled you can't deny basic services like medical care & education to illegals.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#232 Feb 7, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>Well, like I stated, those marines would need to be shoulder to shoulder all along our coasts also.(i think they might be distracted a tad bit by the spring break girls going wild...)
....
Btw, that would be a much better use of our tax dollars than having them in Iraq or Afghanistan or Japan or South Korea or England or Germany or any of the other 150+ countries we have troops stationed in.

The Navy & Coast Guard can take care of the coastlines.

They wouldn't need to be shoulder to shoulder; simply shooting (or sinking) one group attempting to cross illegally will send the message we're finally serious about controlling our borders and will cut the attempts to a couple dozen per year.

They come in now because they know there is no real danger; even if they get caught they just get sent back across the border to try again tomorrow. Killing a few dozen will make the rest reconsider if it's worth the risk.
Level 5

Since: Sep 07

Location hidden

#233 Feb 7, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Our porous borders ARE part of the problem. If they can't get here in the first place, that takes care of half the new illegals entering every year.
I am curious how you think it can be solved without sealing our borders?
Once they are here there isn't much we can do about it. We've never deported any significant percentage of illegals residing here. Even our courts have ruled you can't deny basic services like medical care & education to illegals.
I disagree with you on - we cannot do anything if they are already here.

the key issue here is enforcement...there is none.

we already have all the laws we need to punish those who are here illegally, and those here who are assisting them.

all that needs to be done is for these laws to be enforced.

again, they are not.

for instance, obama says we cannot ask people for their papers because it infringes on their right to privacy, or that it is an issue of discrimination.

well, then.. how else will you be able to filter out those who are illegal and legal?

we already have laws punishing those who assist criminals to the tune of up to 5 years in prison for each occurence. "aiding and abetting".

and yet, when we find companies or individuals assisting illegals, these laws are not being enforced. what happens to the farms who knowingly hire illegals?..absolutely nothing. the same holds true for rich folks who hire these illegals as maids. nothing.

what happened to tyson when it was found hiring illegals? did anybody get jail time for the felony? no. they all got off scott free.
http://www.collegiatetimes.com/stories/1064/t...

my guess is - they are probably hiring illegals again.

even the illegals when they are caught are not being punished. they are assigned a court date and told to return for the hearings...only to disappear during the interim.

this scenario is being played out over and over again all over america.

it makes you wonder if there is not a conspiracy going on in our government.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#234 Feb 7, 2013
Asian Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
I disagree with you on - we cannot do anything if they are already here.
the key issue here is enforcement...there is none.
we already have all the laws we need to punish those who are here illegally, and those here who are assisting them.
all that needs to be done is for these laws to be enforced.
again, they are not.
for instance, obama says we cannot ask people for their papers because it infringes on their right to privacy, or that it is an issue of discrimination.
well, then.. how else will you be able to filter out those who are illegal and legal?
we already have laws punishing those who assist criminals to the tune of up to 5 years in prison for each occurence. "aiding and abetting".
and yet, when we find companies or individuals assisting illegals, these laws are not being enforced. what happens to the farms who knowingly hire illegals?..absolutely nothing. the same holds true for rich folks who hire these illegals as maids. nothing.
what happened to tyson when it was found hiring illegals? did anybody get jail time for the felony? no. they all got off scott free.
http://www.collegiatetimes.com/stories/1064/t...
my guess is - they are probably hiring illegals again.
even the illegals when they are caught are not being punished. they are assigned a court date and told to return for the hearings...only to disappear during the interim.
this scenario is being played out over and over again all over america.
it makes you wonder if there is not a conspiracy going on in our government.
Like I said, there's nothing we can do about it. Neither the Dems nor the Republicans want to enforce the immigration laws.

You can stomp your feet and insist we CAN do it, but if don't do it then it doesn't really matter if we can or not.

There is no reason to believe businesses will be ever be held accountable for hiring illegals no matter what law you pass. They can always claim they didn't know they were illegals, and the burden of proof is then on the govt to prove they DID know. That's hard to prove.

So again, nothing can really be done about the 10+ million already here. All we can do is stop more from coming in.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#235 Feb 7, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Btw, that would be a much better use of our tax dollars than having them in Iraq or Afghanistan or Japan or South Korea or England or Germany or any of the other 150+ countries we have troops stationed in.
The Navy & Coast Guard can take care of the coastlines.
They wouldn't need to be shoulder to shoulder; simply shooting (or sinking) one group attempting to cross illegally will send the message we're finally serious about controlling our borders and will cut the attempts to a couple dozen per year.
They come in now because they know there is no real danger; even if they get caught they just get sent back across the border to try again tomorrow. Killing a few dozen will make the rest reconsider if it's worth the risk.
yeah....those coast guard cutters and battleships are cheap as hell to run, huh?

(I think they use ethanol, now, don't they? That's, like, almost free...)

i can see all the future presidential cndidates touting their experience on PT boat 149 in the gulf of Daytona Beach....

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#236 Feb 7, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>yeah....those coast guard cutters and battleships are cheap as hell to run, huh?
(I think they use ethanol, now, don't they? That's, like, almost free...)
i can see all the future presidential cndidates touting their experience on PT boat 149 in the gulf of Daytona Beach....
They're already using the fuel anyways, I'd rather they use it cruising OUR coastline instead of off the coast in the middle east or pacific or atlantic or indian oceans.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#237 Feb 7, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
They're already using the fuel anyways, I'd rather they use it cruising OUR coastline instead of off the coast in the middle east or pacific or atlantic or indian oceans.
or we could solve the problem and not have to worry about turning our borders and coasts into DMZs...

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#238 Feb 7, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>or we could solve the problem and not have to worry about turning our borders and coasts into DMZs...
You still haven't said just how you plan on fixing the problem without enforcing our borders.

Also, would that mean no border checks at all would be needed? Because then we could save a lot of money on the border patrol and all the crossing guards to.
nobama

Los Angeles, CA

#239 Feb 7, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>Well, like I stated, those marines would need to be shoulder to shoulder all along our coasts also.(i think they might be distracted a tad bit by the spring break girls going wild...)
and, like you stated, that wouldn't stop the illegals you mentioned here on legal visa's that have expired...
Again, if we solve the problem then we don't need to waste that HUGE amount of money to treat the symptom of our porous borders, which is really impractical to do....
I agree with you guys. There must be a way.
Chicopee

Danbury, CT

#240 Feb 7, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>wow, your neighbor used that tired old line from the joke? or was that just as much bullshit as it sounded like? i bet i could get 3/4 of the states to vote for the latter....
What neighbor? What joke are you talking about? The latter of what?
Another bleeting sheep heard from, another keyboard commando who in all probability wouldn't have the spine to call me a liar to my face...and I'm just a wee little woman.
Whatever...
Chicopee

Danbury, CT

#241 Feb 7, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
95%+ blacks voted for the Dems again. With the current GOP policies they'll be lucky to get 10% of the black vote; just like the past 50+ years.
What GOP policies...and no, I'm not being funny.
Mayela

Atlanta, GA

#242 Feb 8, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>Tha's gonna put a damper on the vibe at teh sprinfg break beaches, won't it?
better to solve the problem of illegal hiring than treat the symptom of porous borders that can never be truly secured...
Finally, thank you!
Mayela

Atlanta, GA

#243 Feb 8, 2013
Asian Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
the problem with dealing with the illegals already here is - we don't know how many there are.
another thing, if we do approve an amnesty, how would we be able to determine who actually fits the criteria that we decide upon for approval?
I mean... think about it some... these illegals. many of them lied and cheated to get into the usa with falsified documents. whatever. that's why they are illegal.
my gut feeling is - mass numbers who are not even here will appear out of the woodwork at the last minute with falsified documents proclaiming their eligibility for the amnesty.
how will we deal with that?
the bigger danger as I see it is not from the mexicans or those south of the border. but those from china and asia. we're talking in numbers above a billion.
granted, I don't think a billion would suddenly appear.. but between india and mainland alone, I could easily see tens of millions trying their luck.
if you study the link I provided in my previous post, you would see that the above scenario is not out of the park.
what would we do then? it would be a mess of huge dimensions.
because of this, I think it best we don't allow an amnesty. yes, the numbers you mentioned 10 of millions would be hard to deport. but I think a number 2+ times higher would be a far worst scenario to deal with.
logic dictates we save ourselves before trying to help others.
therefore. no amnesty.
"many of them lied and cheated to get into the usa with falsified documents"
Wow. POT calling kettle black. Wow. Talk about lying and cheating. Most Asians would know all about that now, wouldn't they? Especially where their ages are concerned. Most of those refugees subtracted years off in the attempt to be eligible for high school education. That is just one example. Wow.
Mayela

Atlanta, GA

#244 Feb 8, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Our borders CAN be secured, we just choose not to. Do you think if we have armed Marines standing elbow-to-elbow along the border with shoot-to-kill orders that we can't prevent 99.9% of all illegal border crossings?
I agree hiring of illegals needs to be addressed, but without some kind of national biometric ID card it is too easy to forge the necessary documents. Also many employers simply look the other way and feign ignorance to pad their bottom line.
In addition, unless Americans are willing to take those low paying jobs, many businesses will simply relocate overseas where the cheap labor is.
We also need to stop issuing visas because almost HALF of all illegals currently in the country entered LEGALLY on a visa but just stayed once their visa expired.
So many problems, so few solutions.
"General Secretary Gorbachev, if you seek peace, if you seek prosperity for the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, if you seek liberalization: Come here to this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, open this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" Ronald Reagan
http://www.historyplace.com/speeches/reagan-t...

Hypocrisy! Tear down the Berlin wall, come build one on the American continent! Nothing but Hypocrisy!
Mayela

Atlanta, GA

#245 Feb 8, 2013
Those who are against immigrationóany immigration reformówant to preserve the America that never was, the white, British, Protestant enclave.
http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/201...

"the America that never was", "white, British, Protestant enclave"
Brouhaha

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#246 Feb 8, 2013
Chicopee wrote:
<quoted text>
What GOP policies...and no, I'm not being funny.
Cutting programs which benefit the poor, since a disproportionate percent of blacks live in poverty.

Also attempting to prevent them from voting.

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