A new thread not Created by POS or an...

Level 6

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#1848 Jun 23, 2013
Hong Kong lets Snowden leave

A former contractor for the U.S. National Security Agency, charged by the United States with espionage, was allowed to leave Hong Kong on Sunday, his final destination as yet unknown, because a U.S. request to have him arrested did not comply with the law, the Hong Kong government said.

Edward Snowden left for Moscow on Sunday and his final destination may be Cuba, Ecuador, Iceland or Venezuela, according to various reports. The move is bound to infuriate Washington, wherever he ends up.

"It's a shocker," said Simon Young, a law professor with Hong Kong University. "I thought he was going to stay and fight it out. The U.S. government will be irate."

Full Story...
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/immigration/T...

“Gloria Ad Caput Venire”

Level 9

Since: Jan 08

United States

#1849 Jun 23, 2013
Jaxxon wrote:
Hong Kong lets Snowden leave
A former contractor for the U.S. National Security Agency, charged by the United States with espionage, was allowed to leave Hong Kong on Sunday, his final destination as yet unknown, because a U.S. request to have him arrested did not comply with the law, the Hong Kong government said.
Edward Snowden left for Moscow on Sunday and his final destination may be Cuba, Ecuador, Iceland or Venezuela, according to various reports. The move is bound to infuriate Washington, wherever he ends up.
"It's a shocker," said Simon Young, a law professor with Hong Kong University. "I thought he was going to stay and fight it out. The U.S. government will be irate."
Full Story...
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/immigration/T...
How arrogant for the Govt to be "irate".....

It is high time they feared the individual as well as the people.
That is the way it should be.

“and I don't care....”

Level 7

Since: Oct 11

The Burbs, USA

#1850 Jun 23, 2013
Jaxxon wrote:
Hong Kong lets Snowden leave
A former contractor for the U.S. National Security Agency, charged by the United States with espionage, was allowed to leave Hong Kong on Sunday, his final destination as yet unknown, because a U.S. request to have him arrested did not comply with the law, the Hong Kong government said.
Edward Snowden left for Moscow on Sunday and his final destination may be Cuba, Ecuador, Iceland or Venezuela, according to various reports. The move is bound to infuriate Washington, wherever he ends up.
"It's a shocker," said Simon Young, a law professor with Hong Kong University. "I thought he was going to stay and fight it out. The U.S. government will be irate."
Full Story...
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/immigration/T...
BACK IN THE USSR

http://youtu.be/QhQXNZ6hcZc

BEATLES
007-Bond......James Bond

Level 9

Since: Jun 10

San Ramon, CA

#1851 Jun 23, 2013
positronium wrote:
<quoted text>How arrogant for the Govt to be "irate".....
It is high time they feared the individual as well as the people.
That is the way it should be.
LOL! No, that isn't the "way it should be."

Fear is never a weapon to draw just to manipulate and intimidate. It's weak.

Why on earth should the government fear the people? I hardly think they fear Snowden, but the government does have a right to be irate about his actions. He's put security at risk and created tension between friendly nations. He's a punk.

“Lets Go - Why Not”

Level 6

Since: Jun 11

Laredo Tornado

#1852 Jun 23, 2013
positronium wrote:
<quoted text>
How arrogant for the Govt to be "irate".....
It is high time they feared the individual as well as the people.
That is the way it should be.
Wouldn't be surprised if the Govt was kinda glad ol' Snowden was high tailing it. A trial of this guy would put under scrutiny all kinds of pros & cons of this kind of operation. More than any Govt would want to reveal. Chances are now he'll never make it to the witness stand, probably the safest place he could be.

I'm A Stranger In Your Town

http://youtu.be/3DRmYYm4e2g

The Shacklefords

Level 9

Since: Jun 10

San Ramon, CA

#1853 Jun 23, 2013
Jaxxon wrote:
Hong Kong lets Snowden leave
A former contractor for the U.S. National Security Agency, charged by the United States with espionage, was allowed to leave Hong Kong on Sunday, his final destination as yet unknown, because a U.S. request to have him arrested did not comply with the law, the Hong Kong government said.
Edward Snowden left for Moscow on Sunday and his final destination may be Cuba, Ecuador, Iceland or Venezuela, according to various reports. The move is bound to infuriate Washington, wherever he ends up.
"It's a shocker," said Simon Young, a law professor with Hong Kong University. "I thought he was going to stay and fight it out. The U.S. government will be irate."
Full Story...
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/immigration/T...
Just a thought, but if Snowden feels he did the right and brave thing, why is he a fugitive?

Level 6

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#1854 Jun 23, 2013
---Wild Irish Rose--- wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL! No, that isn't the "way it should be."
Fear is never a weapon to draw just to manipulate and intimidate. It's weak.
Why on earth should the government fear the people? I hardly think they fear Snowden, but the government does have a right to be irate about his actions. He's put security at risk and created tension between friendly nations. He's a punk.
"He's put security at risk and created tension between friendly nations. He's a punk."

Bullsh*t.

I agree with you that our government has no reason to fear us, but we do have the right to expect them to respect our constitutional rights and right now I'm not convinced that they do.

Level 6

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#1855 Jun 23, 2013
---Wild Irish Rose--- wrote:
<quoted text>
Just a thought, but if Snowden feels he did the right and brave thing, why is he a fugitive?
If the administration believes what the NSA and other government agencies have been doing is legal why have they been lying to us?

Why do the people of Europe have more legal protections safeguarding their privacy than we do here in America?

We all have questions right now Rose.

Snowden isn't the issue. He made his decision and will have to face his fate.

The issue here is how far are we willing to allow our government to "encroach" on our constitutional freedoms in the name of "security" and when are we going to demand that they tell us the truth about what they have been doing.

We are being spied on and lied to by the people that are supposed to serve us.

Personally, I have a problem with that.

The truth is out now and sooner or later we are going to have to deal with it.

This is just getting started. It's not going to go away.

Level 9

Since: Jun 10

San Ramon, CA

#1856 Jun 23, 2013
I guess Snowden and Assange can start a new club:

How to weaken the United States and its security and become famous for it.

And the whole world gets to play James Bond.

Watch for the movie. Probably be on location in Ecuador.

Level 9

Since: Jun 10

San Ramon, CA

#1857 Jun 23, 2013
Jaxxon wrote:
<quoted text>
If the administration believes what the NSA and other government agencies have been doing is legal why have they been lying to us?
Why do the people of Europe have more legal protections safeguarding their privacy than we do here in America?
We all have questions right now Rose.
Snowden isn't the issue. He made his decision and will have to face his fate.
The issue here is how far are we willing to allow our government to "encroach" on our constitutional freedoms in the name of "security" and when are we going to demand that they tell us the truth about what they have been doing.
We are being spied on and lied to by the people that are supposed to serve us.
Personally, I have a problem with that.
The truth is out now and sooner or later we are going to have to deal with it.
This is just getting started. It's not going to go away.
Okay, Jax.

Personally, I'm not into the drama and I don't believe a single American has had their rights infringed upon. It's the makings of mass hysteria and everyone wanting to feel important and victimized by the government somehow.

Oh, it will go away alright. Everything does eventually.

When the government can't trust their own top level employees, and it becomes fashionable to be a whistle-blower, you have the makings of some serious trust problems, and the public doesn't need to be privy to EVERYTHING. They never have been in the past.

It is bigger than Snowden, but our enemies will take advantage of it, and we become weaker and weaker because of it, and it's exactly what they want. I will never see Snowden as any hero of the people no matter what.

Level 6

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#1858 Jun 23, 2013

Level 9

Since: Jun 10

San Ramon, CA

#1859 Jun 23, 2013
And the plot thickens, and the global media and espionage community will have a field day with Snowden. And will we ever know the TRUTH?

Like all good spy stories, you'll believe what you want to believe and what the best writer makes you believe. And will have little to do with constitutional rights because no one is even talking about those much.

Level 9

Since: Jun 10

San Ramon, CA

#1860 Jun 23, 2013
Edward Snowden: Whistleblower or double agent?

Published June 14, 2013
FoxNews.com

While some initially championed Edward Snowden, the 21st century mole holed up in Hong Kong, as a martyr, there also appears to be a growing backlash against the former NSA contractor. And as the story slowly unfolds, one key question stands out: is Snowden the heroic whistleblower he claims to be or something more sinister?

During one of his first newspaper interviews, when he spilled national security secrets, Snowden called himself “just another guy who sits there day to day in the office.” But now some are questioning his motives and wondering whether claims that he wanted to right a perceived wrong are true -- or whether he could be a modern-day double agent, cleverly hiding his actions and painting himself as a victim of the U.S. government while working as an agent for the Chinese.

Gordon Chang, author of “The Coming Collapse of China,” thinks there’s a strong possibility Snowden could be playing for both sides.

“The first clue is that he goes to Hong Kong and they have an extradition agreement with the U.S. and a tradition of close cooperation of law enforcement,” Chang told Fox.“That means, the only thing that stands between him and a lifetime in a super-max prison is Beijing.”

Chang also says the timing of Snowden’s disclosures are suspect.

“He changed the global narrative of China hacking into the U.S. to the American government going after one of its own,” Chang said.

The first of Snowden’s disclosures came right before President Obama met with new Chinese President Xi Jinping.

“That really derailed Obama’s whole talk about cyber security,” he said, adding,“the most rrecent revelations have been about operational details of the NSA spying on Hong Kong and China. This only helps Beijing.”

Chang says it’s likely Snowden went public with his claims because he was tipped off that the NSA was on to him.

Snowden’s most recent claims to the South China Morning Post are that the NSA has more than 61,000 hacking operations globally, the NSA has been hacking computers in Hong Kong and China since 2009 and that the Chinese targets included universities, public officials, businesses and students.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/06/14/ed...

Level 6

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#1861 Jun 23, 2013
---Wild Irish Rose--- wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay, Jax.
Personally, I'm not into the drama and I don't believe a single American has had their rights infringed upon. It's the makings of mass hysteria and everyone wanting to feel important and victimized by the government somehow.
Oh, it will go away alright. Everything does eventually.
When the government can't trust their own top level employees, and it becomes fashionable to be a whistle-blower, you have the makings of some serious trust problems, and the public doesn't need to be privy to EVERYTHING. They never have been in the past.
It is bigger than Snowden, but our enemies will take advantage of it, and we become weaker and weaker because of it, and it's exactly what they want. I will never see Snowden as any hero of the people no matter what.
"...and the public doesn't need to be privy to EVERYTHING."

And neither does the government.

Time for a tension break...any ideas how top lighten the mood?

Level 6

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#1862 Jun 23, 2013
Just a little side not. Whoever is handing out the bad judge-its...what's the point?

We're all just expressing our opinion here.

It's still a free(ish) country.

If you've got something to say speak up or stay out of it.

I'm out for a while.

Peace.

Level 6

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#1863 Jun 23, 2013
---Wild Irish Rose--- wrote:
Edward Snowden: Whistleblower or double agent?
Published June 14, 2013
FoxNews.com
While some initially championed Edward Snowden, the 21st century mole holed up in Hong Kong, as a martyr, there also appears to be a growing backlash against the former NSA contractor. And as the story slowly unfolds, one key question stands out: is Snowden the heroic whistleblower he claims to be or something more sinister?
During one of his first newspaper interviews, when he spilled national security secrets, Snowden called himself “just another guy who sits there day to day in the office.” But now some are questioning his motives and wondering whether claims that he wanted to right a perceived wrong are true -- or whether he could be a modern-day double agent, cleverly hiding his actions and painting himself as a victim of the U.S. government while working as an agent for the Chinese.
Gordon Chang, author of “The Coming Collapse of China,” thinks there’s a strong possibility Snowden could be playing for both sides.
“The first clue is that he goes to Hong Kong and they have an extradition agreement with the U.S. and a tradition of close cooperation of law enforcement,” Chang told Fox.“That means, the only thing that stands between him and a lifetime in a super-max prison is Beijing.”
Chang also says the timing of Snowden’s disclosures are suspect.
“He changed the global narrative of China hacking into the U.S. to the American government going after one of its own,” Chang said.
The first of Snowden’s disclosures came right before President Obama met with new Chinese President Xi Jinping.
“That really derailed Obama’s whole talk about cyber security,” he said, adding,“the most rrecent revelations have been about operational details of the NSA spying on Hong Kong and China. This only helps Beijing.”
Chang says it’s likely Snowden went public with his claims because he was tipped off that the NSA was on to him.
Snowden’s most recent claims to the South China Morning Post are that the NSA has more than 61,000 hacking operations globally, the NSA has been hacking computers in Hong Kong and China since 2009 and that the Chinese targets included universities, public officials, businesses and students.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/06/14/ed...
Double agent?

Fox news?

With all due respect...give me a break.

Hope you're having a good weekend.

Level 9

Since: Jun 10

San Ramon, CA

#1864 Jun 23, 2013
Jaxxon wrote:
<quoted text>
Double agent?
Fox news?
With all due respect...give me a break.
Hope you're having a good weekend.
LOL! Hell if I know, Jax.

I was playing devil's advocate by using Fox News though.

But I was also demonstrating the drama this is turning into. The world is loving it, especially the world media.

Personally, I think it's much ado about very little. The government has had access to our phones, our records via Social Security, DMV, IRS, then the Internet for years. This really is not news, but it's the way it's been revealed and the whole cloak and dagger, spy thriller atmosphere that has altered the message.

If you've never read Marshall McLuhan's "The Medium Is the Message," might be a good time. This is a classic example of his theory.

Level 9

Since: Jun 10

San Ramon, CA

#1865 Jun 23, 2013
It's kind of like a new husband finding out his wife isn't a virgin when he was convinced she was Maria from The Sound of Music.

Everyone else knew because Julie Andrews was no nun. LOL!

Level 9

Since: Jun 10

San Ramon, CA

#1866 Jun 23, 2013
Jaxxon wrote:
<quoted text>
"...and the public doesn't need to be privy to EVERYTHING."
And neither does the government.
Time for a tension break...any ideas how top lighten the mood?
LOL! I don't know. We could really start fighting and have the "other guys" think we're enemies now. They would love that.

You can start.
Pete

Pittsburgh, PA

#1867 Jun 23, 2013
---Wild Irish Rose--- wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL! I don't know. We could really start fighting and have the "other guys" think we're enemies now. They would love that.
You can start.
All you have shown the "other guys" is what a spineless coward you are by not sticking to your own convictions.
Same ol' same ol' from you.

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