Illegal immigration bills: Oklahoma's...

Illegal immigration bills: Oklahoma's shame

There are 166 comments on the Tulsa World story from Feb 22, 2011, titled Illegal immigration bills: Oklahoma's shame. In it, Tulsa World reports that:

Read Jones' blog at www.tulsaworld.com/jonesblog The rallying cry in the Oklahoma Legislature this session ought to be: "We will not be out-Arizonaed." OK, I made up a word.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Tulsa World.

tfallen is utterly insane

Orlando, FL

#126 Mar 7, 2011
You call that data? Same old gibberish and same old I've proved my point without anything other than 11.2 million illegals in the country and a few lame stream media reports. Go research the "earned income credit" and the deductions for each child in the family, low income earners (the vast majority of illegal aliens) simply won't pay higher taxes. Simple math!

All you've done is come back with more quips while ignoring the data that your "basic plan" won't work and in detailed form versus your questionable data.

From a 2007 article the average salary for an illegal is about $15K: http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer...

The average return for low income earners $2500.

Between free medical care (yea all they have to do is walk into an emergency room), free breakfast and lunches on the tax payer dime, wic, and other social benefits, there is NO way they'll pay anything back near what they take. Simple math!

You've been dropped from the class and given an 'F' for lack of credible data and any kind of specific on how you'll actually accomplish even the basics of your "basic plan".

Adios and good luck with your plan it doesn't stand a chance in hadies of passing Congress or any State for that matter. The tide has turned against illegals in State after State.

Prof W.
MA Business Admin
MS Management
Certs in Metrics/Knowledge Management/Level 2 Contracting/Tax Prep/Plans and Programs

Since: Apr 10

Location hidden

#127 Mar 7, 2011
DAVID wrote:
<quoted text>
Neither PBS,or NPR have a right to public tax money,and they both support liberal propaganda.End all money to them,and others that are not listed in the us constitution,or mandated by congress under the rules listed in the constitution.
NPR gets 96% of its money from donations. People who listen to it, pay for it. I'm one of them. They have as much right as any other non-profit to apply for grants. As for all the rest, yadda, yadda, yadda, fake libertarian bullshit, yadda, yadda

PBS does very little news programming and is mostly educational and cultural stuff.

NPR reports the news and also has a lot of other stuff besides news programming. They interviews conservative politicians all the time. When they talk about stuff like the government shutdown they give both sides of the argument. They are the best source if you want to know what's going on in the world. They have reporters on the ground in Libya and interviewed a protester by cell phone with a fire-fight going on in the background. During Katrina they got a reporter into the Astrodome before FEMA got there. They carry BBC World News.

You really should listen to them before you condemn them.
MHH11

United States

#128 Mar 7, 2011
Justaminute wrote:
Look at the legislation proposed in Texas. A large fine and 1 year in jail for employers that hire illegals. Except people that use illegals for maids, lawn care, or nannies. Ha Ha Republicans, your proposals are crazy.
You don't have money to round up illegals. The Republican proposal to cut the budget include cuts to boarder patrol. Whether you like it or not their here and you are going to have to deal with it in a sensible way. You know the Christian saying about treating people like you want to be treated. You might consider that when white people are going to be in the minority, because whether you like or not it's coming.
Perhaps Your right but if We just shoot the ones We find the others will leave. Just kidding We wouldnt want to do that,,, Would We??
TFALLEN

Talihina, OK

#129 Mar 9, 2011
tfallen is utterly insane wrote:
You call that data? Same old gibberish and same old I've proved my point without anything other than 11.2 million illegals in the country and a few lame stream media reports. Go research the "earned income credit" and the deductions for each child in the family, low income earners (the vast majority of illegal aliens) simply won't pay higher taxes. Simple math!
All you've done is come back with more quips while ignoring the data that your "basic plan" won't work and in detailed form versus your questionable data.
From a 2007 article the average salary for an illegal is about $15K: http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer...
The average return for low income earners $2500.
Between free medical care (yea all they have to do is walk into an emergency room), free breakfast and lunches on the tax payer dime, wic, and other social benefits, there is NO way they'll pay anything back near what they take. Simple math!
You've been dropped from the class and given an 'F' for lack of credible data and any kind of specific on how you'll actually accomplish even the basics of your "basic plan".
Adios and good luck with your plan it doesn't stand a chance in hadies of passing Congress or any State for that matter. The tide has turned against illegals in State after State.
Prof W.
MA Business Admin
MS Management
Certs in Metrics/Knowledge Management/Level 2 Contracting/Tax Prep/Plans and Programs
“You call that data? Same old gibberish and same old I've proved my point without anything other than 11.2 million illegals in the country and a few lame stream media reports.”
>It’s very simple math. If millions of people who don’t pay taxes, start paying taxes to the government, the government would get more money. Have you learned how to add yet?
---
“Go research the "earned income credit" and the deductions for each child in the family, low income earners (the vast majority of illegal aliens) simply won't pay higher taxes. Simple math!”
>You forget the stipulation again. I said they would have to pay higher taxes. I said if the deductions were higher than their tax, raise their tax. Also, another way to make their taxes higher would be to remove those deductions entirely. They wouldn’t even have to fill out a return. They could get a percentage of their check taken out each month and that would be it. Remember this is supposed to be a consequence for their illegal actions. Please pay attention.
---
“All you've done is come back with more quips while ignoring the data that your "basic plan" won't work and in detailed form versus your questionable data.”
>11.2 Million illegals paying more than they are taking out is better for the economy. I feel sorry for your students if you can’t even use simple math.
---

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TFALLEN

Talihina, OK

#130 Mar 9, 2011
“Between free medical care (yea all they have to do is walk into an emergency room), free breakfast and lunches on the tax payer dime, wic, and other social benefits, there is NO way they'll pay anything back near what they take. Simple math!”
>Have you forgotten about the new healthcare bill where everyone will be required to pay for their own insurance? It will go into effect soon enough and that makes this problem go away.
---
“You've been dropped from the class and given an 'F' for lack of credible data and any kind of specific on how you'll actually accomplish even the basics of your "basic plan".”
>I don’t see your F as anything valid. I at least know how to add.
---
“Adios and good luck with your plan it doesn't stand a chance in hadies of passing Congress or any State for that matter. The tide has turned against illegals in State after State.”
>Actually, it’s likely a similar plan will be put forth, because the cost of finding and removing all illegals would cost way too much. The cost of making them contributors would be nothing.
---
“Prof W.
MA Business Admin
MS Management
Certs in Metrics/Knowledge Management/Level 2 Contracting/Tax Prep/Plans and Programs”
>LOL Anyone can lie about credentials on here. You’re no different. Also, you don’t know my credentials. LOL

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God bless USA

United States

#131 Mar 9, 2011
The only reason the illegals are allowed to be here is profit! Profit for the business they work for, simple free market condition, imagine you are owner of construction company in the summer heat who you would hire? Or you are the owner of meat processing plant who would you hire? Or you own landscaping business... So they ( some politicians ) makes believe that the immigrants are the reason for the downturn of the states income ? Is exactly the opposite ! Without immigrant labor any producing factory would move out of the US it is happening don't tell me you don't see it! So about the bankruptcy of the states simple economics, the main revenue for the states budgets is sales and real estate taxes! Yes or no? So without the foreign hardworking community which is about 40 million immagine what would happen to those revenues and the housing market ( rental or to own )! Any politician proposing something for deportation or something for that 40 million community is clearly thinking for his own future being reelected ! In the USA you buy house for 100 grand but you owe to the banks 350 000 you buy a car for 30 000 but in 5 years you owe 40 000 and when you deceide to sell it it cost 5000$ there are the real crimes thiefs and parasites! not the hardworking 6,50$ an hour fruit pickers from our agriculture fields ! Admitt it !Well that's the free market Americans are choosing foreigners here and if they are afraight to do it here they move all the office to India ! That is why when you call your bank Indian from India is answering! Is this what we want? The us busines moving abroad because this illegal nonsense ?
what a maroon tfallen is

Dallas, TX

#132 Mar 9, 2011
TFALLEN wrote:
“Between free medical care (yea all they have to do is walk into an emergency room), free breakfast and lunches on the tax payer dime, wic, and other social benefits, there is NO way they'll pay anything back near what they take. Simple math!”
>Have you forgotten about the new healthcare bill where everyone will be required to pay for their own insurance? It will go into effect soon enough and that makes this problem go away.
---
“You've been dropped from the class and given an 'F' for lack of credible data and any kind of specific on how you'll actually accomplish even the basics of your "basic plan".”
>I don’t see your F as anything valid. I at least know how to add.
---
“Adios and good luck with your plan it doesn't stand a chance in hadies of passing Congress or any State for that matter. The tide has turned against illegals in State after State.”
>Actually, it’s likely a similar plan will be put forth, because the cost of finding and removing all illegals would cost way too much. The cost of making them contributors would be nothing.
---
“Prof W.
MA Business Admin
MS Management
Certs in Metrics/Knowledge Management/Level 2 Contracting/Tax Prep/Plans and Programs”
>LOL Anyone can lie about credentials on here. You’re no different. Also, you don’t know my credentials. LOL
Have you missed the fact that the administration has issued over 700 waivers to the healthcare bill? Yep. Credentials? Yea someone could fake them just like illegal aliens fake Social Security numbers. Pay higher taxes? Just how would you accomplish that little trick? If you raise them for one group you'll have to raise them for EVERYONE or face a backlash from all the other zero liability voters like you've never seen. Addition? Show us your numbers if ya got em. Calculate the costs versus what you'll need to pay back the taxpayers rather than say I'd raise taxes and that'll pay it all back. That means absolutely nothing, you've proven nothing. Post your data rather than make more stupid idotic statements. You could tax the rich at 100% and couldn't pay back the national debt and you think that taxing illegal aliens who make on average $15-25K is going to make even a small dent in the money needed to get this country out of it's fiscal problems. You are totally delusional! If you only had a brain.
DAVID

Puyallup, WA

#133 Mar 9, 2011
RedSonja2000 wrote:
<quoted text>
NPR gets 96% of its money from donations. People who listen to it, pay for it. I'm one of them. They have as much right as any other non-profit to apply for grants. As for all the rest, yadda, yadda, yadda, fake libertarian bullshit, yadda, yadda
PBS does very little news programming and is mostly educational and cultural stuff.
NPR reports the news and also has a lot of other stuff besides news programming. They interviews conservative politicians all the time. When they talk about stuff like the government shutdown they give both sides of the argument. They are the best source if you want to know what's going on in the world. They have reporters on the ground in Libya and interviewed a protester by cell phone with a fire-fight going on in the background. During Katrina they got a reporter into the Astrodome before FEMA got there. They carry BBC World News.
You really should listen to them before you condemn them.
I have heard them,and they deserve no tax money,but,since yo udisagree,show me where in the constitution they have the right to tax money?
DAVID

Puyallup, WA

#134 Mar 9, 2011
TFALLEN wrote:
“Between free medical care (yea all they have to do is walk into an emergency room), free breakfast and lunches on the tax payer dime, wic, and other social benefits, there is NO way they'll pay anything back near what they take. Simple math!”
>Have you forgotten about the new healthcare bill where everyone will be required to pay for their own insurance? It will go into effect soon enough and that makes this problem go away.
---
“You've been dropped from the class and given an 'F' for lack of credible data and any kind of specific on how you'll actually accomplish even the basics of your "basic plan".”
>I don’t see your F as anything valid. I at least know how to add.
---
“Adios and good luck with your plan it doesn't stand a chance in hadies of passing Congress or any State for that matter. The tide has turned against illegals in State after State.”
>Actually, it’s likely a similar plan will be put forth, because the cost of finding and removing all illegals would cost way too much. The cost of making them contributors would be nothing.
---
“Prof W.
MA Business Admin
MS Management
Certs in Metrics/Knowledge Management/Level 2 Contracting/Tax Prep/Plans and Programs”
>LOL Anyone can lie about credentials on here. You’re no different. Also, you don’t know my credentials. LOL
Your credentials?your an idiot,do not understand that the last amnesty in 1986 was a failure,do not understand immigration laws,and,your an idiot.
Jim b

Jackson, MI

#136 Mar 9, 2011
This might work if we can get the government to cut off all services.

It does us no good to have them here when they need free medical, free schooling, food aid, housing aid, free school lunches and what ever else they line up for. With their earning capacity and large families we can not even break even. They will end up costing us from birth to death.
If we want immigrants we should bring in the smart ones with degree's that will actually help the country to grow.
TFALLEN wrote:
I don't see why illegals couldn't work toward citizenship. This way we have them paying taxes and perhaps a fine garnished from pay checks for the consequence of coming over illegally. This way they are punished, yet get to stay, work, and pay taxes. Everyone would get some of what they want.
MHH11

United States

#137 Mar 10, 2011
Jim b wrote:
This might work if we can get the government to cut off all services.
It does us no good to have them here when they need free medical, free schooling, food aid, housing aid, free school lunches and what ever else they line up for. With their earning capacity and large families we can not even break even. They will end up costing us from birth to death.
If we want immigrants we should bring in the smart ones with degree's that will actually help the country to grow.
<quoted text>
Well there are ten's of Thousands of hard working educated South Africans that would love to come to America to avoid the ongoing genocide that is being carried out against Them,,of course They cant get VISAS,, their White.
TFALLEN

Talihina, OK

#138 Mar 10, 2011
what a maroon tfallen is wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you missed the fact that the administration has issued over 700 waivers to the healthcare bill? Yep. Credentials? Yea someone could fake them just like illegal aliens fake Social Security numbers. Pay higher taxes? Just how would you accomplish that little trick? If you raise them for one group you'll have to raise them for EVERYONE or face a backlash from all the other zero liability voters like you've never seen. Addition? Show us your numbers if ya got em. Calculate the costs versus what you'll need to pay back the taxpayers rather than say I'd raise taxes and that'll pay it all back. That means absolutely nothing, you've proven nothing. Post your data rather than make more stupid idotic statements. You could tax the rich at 100% and couldn't pay back the national debt and you think that taxing illegal aliens who make on average $15-25K is going to make even a small dent in the money needed to get this country out of it's fiscal problems. You are totally delusional! If you only had a brain.
“Have you missed the fact that the administration has issued over 700 waivers to the healthcare bill?”
>That’s an extremely small number, when compared to the rest of the nation. Also, don’t give illegals waivers. Don’t give them deductions. Don’t give them the right to vote. If they don’t like it, they should have come into the country legally and they can always go back. What part of consequence do you not understand?
---
“Pay higher taxes? Just how would you accomplish that little trick? If you raise them for one group you'll have to raise them for EVERYONE or face a backlash from all the other zero liability voters like you've never seen.”
>Completely untrue. Raising taxes as a consequence (please look it up) for their illegal activity does not mean that everyone else’s taxes need to be raised. The only problems you have with what I’ve proposed is the B.S. you make up.
---
“Addition? Show us your numbers if ya got em.”
>That’s just it, no one really has the “numbers” on illegals in the U.S. Even the 11.2 million is a best guess. What we do know is that if millions of people who don’t pay, but actually take money from our government, stopped taking started paying, then that would be a lot of money ADDED to our economy. You would rather spend more money finding and deporting millions of people than do something good for our own economy. That is irrational.
---
“Calculate the costs versus what you'll need to pay back the taxpayers rather than say I'd raise taxes and that'll pay it all back. That means absolutely nothing, you've proven nothing.”
>That’s just it. There would be no costs. They could even pay the processing fee that states they are allowed to legally work and reside in the U.S. Their checks would have a standard withholding taken and that would be it. No tax return for them. No government assistance for them. We could step up measures on proving eligibility for government assistance to weed out the frauds and illegals. The enforcement would cost a bit, but it would be paid for by the money we’d save.
---
TFALLEN

Talihina, OK

#139 Mar 10, 2011
“That means absolutely nothing, you've proven nothing. Post your data rather than make more stupid idotic statements.”
>I’ve proposed an idea that makes sense. Your idea of using force and manpower to remove all illegals we know will cost a lot of money we don’t have, yet you call ME idiotic. LOL You can’t guarantee that my idea will save money. We don’t know if all illegals would even come forward to accept legal residency. They might be afraid of some kind of trick to get them deported. It’s reasonable to suggest that most would comply and end up being accepting the terms and start being contributing members of society, rather than a drain on the economy.
---
“You could tax the rich at 100% and couldn't pay back the national debt and you think that taxing illegal aliens who make on average $15-25K is going to make even a small dent in the money needed to get this country out of it's fiscal problems. You are totally delusional! If you only had a brain.”
>No, but it would likely get us close to having a balanced budget again. If you want to get rid of the National Debt (which illegals have barely made a dent in), then you might look into legalizing marijuana and taxing it.
TFALLEN

Talihina, OK

#140 Mar 10, 2011
DAVID wrote:
<quoted text>
Your credentials?your an idiot,do not understand that the last amnesty in 1986 was a failure,do not understand immigration laws,and,your an idiot.
This being from a person who can’t even string a sentence together is laughable. LOL

You’ve yet to show evidence of this “failure” of the last amnesty. Not that it matter anyway, because it’s irrelevant to what I’ve proposed. Try again. LOL
TFALLEN

Talihina, OK

#141 Mar 10, 2011
Jim b wrote:
This might work if we can get the government to cut off all services.
It does us no good to have them here when they need free medical, free schooling, food aid, housing aid, free school lunches and what ever else they line up for. With their earning capacity and large families we can not even break even. They will end up costing us from birth to death.
If we want immigrants we should bring in the smart ones with degree's that will actually help the country to grow.
<quoted text>
I agree somewhat. We need to educate them though. If we don’t, then we’ll have older illegal immigrants that aren’t educated enough to contribute and would be just as much of a drain on our economy as their parents. I’m in favor of getting them to contribute as much as we can instead of costing us money. We know that spending money on the manpower to remove them all will cost way too much. Also, we need to have higher security on our borders first, or they’d just come right back.
DAVID

Puyallup, WA

#142 Mar 10, 2011
TFALLEN wrote:
<quoted text>
This being from a person who can’t even string a sentence together is laughable. LOL
You’ve yet to show evidence of this “failure” of the last amnesty. Not that it matter anyway, because it’s irrelevant to what I’ve proposed. Try again. LOL
The amnesty was supposed to prevent any present and future problems,but now it is 2011,and the problem is worse,making the past amnesty a failure.You are an idiot,and fail to understand that fact.
DAVID

Puyallup, WA

#143 Mar 10, 2011
TFALLEN wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree somewhat. We need to educate them though. If we don’t, then we’ll have older illegal immigrants that aren’t educated enough to contribute and would be just as much of a drain on our economy as their parents. I’m in favor of getting them to contribute as much as we can instead of costing us money. We know that spending money on the manpower to remove them all will cost way too much. Also, we need to have higher security on our borders first, or they’d just come right back.
The cost to remove an illegal is $12,500.The employer fine is $10,000 per employee that is illegally hired.The savings to each school is over $10,000 for grades k-12.Social services is even higher,making enforcing all of the laws and deporting the illegals a cost saving measure,not yet counting reducing the crimes in america.
commit tfallen

Oklahoma City, OK

#144 Mar 10, 2011
DAVID wrote:
<quoted text>
The cost to remove an illegal is $12,500.The employer fine is $10,000 per employee that is illegally hired.The savings to each school is over $10,000 for grades k-12.Social services is even higher,making enforcing all of the laws and deporting the illegals a cost saving measure,not yet counting reducing the crimes in america.
There is no arguing with this moron, he/she will never get it and is living in la la libtard land...I strongly suggest you just quit responding to his/her posts. I'm done with the moron. Let him/her wallow in cyberland all alone. Take the pledge and ignore the troll!!!
DAVID

Puyallup, WA

#145 Mar 10, 2011
commit tfallen wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no arguing with this moron, he/she will never get it and is living in la la libtard land...I strongly suggest you just quit responding to his/her posts. I'm done with the moron. Let him/her wallow in cyberland all alone. Take the pledge and ignore the troll!!!
I will ignore the troll from now on,and I posted enough economical sense anyway.
TFALLEN

Talihina, OK

#146 Mar 21, 2011
DAVID wrote:
<quoted text>
The amnesty was supposed to prevent any present and future problems,but now it is 2011,and the problem is worse,making the past amnesty a failure.You are an idiot,and fail to understand that fact.
There you go with the Ad Hominem again, proving that you’re losing your argument. LOL
Also, the Amnesty didn’t fail. The immigrants became legal. The reason that more immigrants came in, was because the borders didn’t step up security. I proposed to do that. Try again.

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