Abortion bills force both parties to ...

Abortion bills force both parties to rethink political calculus

There are 1168 comments on the The Washington Post story from Jul 6, 2013, titled Abortion bills force both parties to rethink political calculus. In it, The Washington Post reports that:

People gather outside the state legislature as Senate Republicans gave their final approval to legislation requiring additional rules surrounding abortions in North Carolina, even as hundreds of protesters against the bill watched from the gallery in Raleigh, N.C., Wednesday,July 3. As a member of the Wisconsin State Assembly years ago, Republican ... (more)

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Washington Post.

Chicopee

United States

#127 Jul 10, 2013
not a playa1965 wrote:
<quoted text>Then the regulatory bodies, and investigative services failed to do their jobs. If the laws already on the books had been enforced, he would not have 'flourished'.
And if women were not denied access to legal abortions, via the inability to pay for them, or the unfeasibility of obtaining them (remember - no tax dollars will pay for an abortion, although nearly every other medical procedure is covered by taxpayer dollars) then women would not be left to patronize those who exploit those situations.
Laws denying, restricting, and eliminating, access to abortion, put the Gosnells in business.
More laws against abortion will increase the number of illegal abortions - they will not curtail abortions in general.
There have been other cases aside from Gosnell's house of horrors, in which women admit that they "changed their minds" (2 separate cases in Fl., several women who sought the services of Dr. Tiller's clinic, who testified before a court) and only sought to abort pregnancies after it was too late to do it legally. So you're either naive or you're obfuscating.

The woman who died at Gosnell's clinic of being overdosed with drugs didn't go to any clinic seeking an abortion early on...she went past the legal limit, and someone at the clinic she went to directed her to Gosnell. As did another woman whose late term fetus resulted in a murder charge for Dr. Gosnell.

Tiller's clinic performed late term abortions at $5,000 per procedure and according to court findings, the vast majority were what is called "abortion on denmand".

He was not found guilty of any crime, because he required two separate MD's to recommend that the procedure was required...it wasn't his finding to make and he had all the required paperwork.

So, these women had enough money to get not one, but two doctors to recommend the requirement, plus $5,000 to have it done. These are certainly not cases where there wasn't enough money to avoid a procedure in a timely fashion. At least Dr. Tiller didn't harm or kill any women, a big step up from Gosnell's horror show.

I'm a pro-choice woman and mother of two young women, and I've been saying for years now that those of us who support a woman's right to choose need to speak up. We need to denounce all the illegal activity that is going on, rather than wearing blinders and pretending laws aren't being broken daily. Otherwise, we're giving the pro-life advocates all the ammo they need to get public support for more restrictive laws.

And here we are, where for the first time since 1973 and Roe, the majority of Americans oppose abortion and legislators are jumping on it.
Cat74

United States

#128 Jul 10, 2013
The state can make a law, and the S C can interpret it. There is no time limit mentioned in the Abortion law, so each state can regulate is as they wish. If all 50 states say no abortions after 20 weeks that is the new law.

Level 1

Since: Feb 07

Location hidden

#129 Jul 10, 2013
Chicopee wrote:
<quoted text>
There have been other cases aside from Gosnell's house of horrors, in which women admit that they "changed their minds" (2 separate cases in Fl., several women who sought the services of Dr. Tiller's clinic, who testified before a court) and only sought to abort pregnancies after it was too late to do it legally. So you're either naive or you're obfuscating.
The woman who died at Gosnell's clinic of being overdosed with drugs didn't go to any clinic seeking an abortion early on...she went past the legal limit, and someone at the clinic she went to directed her to Gosnell. As did another woman whose late term fetus resulted in a murder charge for Dr. Gosnell.
Tiller's clinic performed late term abortions at $5,000 per procedure and according to court findings, the vast majority were what is called "abortion on denmand".
He was not found guilty of any crime, because he required two separate MD's to recommend that the procedure was required...it wasn't his finding to make and he had all the required paperwork.
So, these women had enough money to get not one, but two doctors to recommend the requirement, plus $5,000 to have it done. These are certainly not cases where there wasn't enough money to avoid a procedure in a timely fashion. At least Dr. Tiller didn't harm or kill any women, a big step up from Gosnell's horror show.
I'm a pro-choice woman and mother of two young women, and I've been saying for years now that those of us who support a woman's right to choose need to speak up. We need to denounce all the illegal activity that is going on, rather than wearing blinders and pretending laws aren't being broken daily. Otherwise, we're giving the pro-life advocates all the ammo they need to get public support for more restrictive laws.
And here we are, where for the first time since 1973 and Roe, the majority of Americans oppose abortion and legislators are jumping on it.
"I'm a pro-choice woman and mother of two young women, and I've been saying for years now that those of us who support a woman's right to choose need to speak up. We need to denounce all the illegal activity that is going on, rather than wearing blinders and pretending laws aren't being broken daily. Otherwise, we're giving the pro-life advocates all the ammo they need to get public support for more restrictive laws."

Very well said and very true.

“Hillary, thirty years of lying”

Level 3

Since: Nov 08

Paris

#130 Jul 11, 2013
conservative crapola wrote:
<quoted text>
t-denial. Your inherent dishonesty will never allow a majority of voters to accept the reds as a legitimate WH condidate.
hahahahahahahahahaha
REPORT: DOJ spent tax dollars to help organize, support 'Justice for Trayvon' protests.

“Hillary, thirty years of lying”

Level 3

Since: Nov 08

Paris

#131 Jul 11, 2013
not a playa1965 wrote:
<quoted text>Then the regulatory bodies, and investigative services failed to do their jobs. If the laws already on the books had been enforced, he would not have 'flourished'.
And if women were not denied access to legal abortions, via the inability to pay for them, or the unfeasibility of obtaining them (remember - no tax dollars will pay for an abortion, although nearly every other medical procedure is covered by taxpayer dollars) then women would not be left to patronize those who exploit those situations.
Laws denying, restricting, and eliminating, access to abortion, put the Gosnells in business.
More laws against abortion will increase the number of illegal abortions - they will not curtail abortions in general.
Murder is not a medical procedure pookie. Stopping a beating heart is not what doctors oath states.
conservative crapola

Easton, PA

#132 Jul 11, 2013
Le Jimbo wrote:
<quoted text>
lafraud report = red propaganda
conservative crapola

Easton, PA

#133 Jul 11, 2013
Fire the GOP wrote:
<quoted text>
Someone should tell the "conservatives" that killing 46 million female half-babies is the ultimate war on women, not just some strawman over masturbation.
How many half-lives have you snuffed out into a tissue during your lifetime?
Leave the abortion debate to the women. You just stop jerking off if you are so concerned about lives.
lafraud needs a direct link to the manufacturer to so they can keep up with his demand.

kleenex.com
Dan

Omaha, NE

#134 Jul 11, 2013
not a playa1965 wrote:
<quoted text>Then the regulatory bodies, and investigative services failed to do their jobs. If the laws already on the books had been enforced, he would not have 'flourished'.
And if women were not denied access to legal abortions, via the inability to pay for them, or the unfeasibility of obtaining them (remember - no tax dollars will pay for an abortion, although nearly every other medical procedure is covered by taxpayer dollars) then women would not be left to patronize those who exploit those situations.
Laws denying, restricting, and eliminating, access to abortion, put the Gosnells in business.
More laws against abortion will increase the number of illegal abortions - they will not curtail abortions in general.
The "access" argument isn't holding up RE: Gosnell. He charged more than average, not less, for his services.

PP has clinics in Philadelphia. "Access" to abortion services wasn't an issue, unless you define "having access" as "being fully subsidized".

You're working both sides of the street here. You're saying on the one hand that if laws on the books had been enforced, no Gosnell, then turning right around and blaming those same laws on the books for creating the situation whereupon a Gosnell can operate. Make up your mind.

Deborah

Minneapolis, MN

#135 Jul 11, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
The "access" argument isn't holding up RE: Gosnell. He charged more than average, not less, for his services.
PP has clinics in Philadelphia. "Access" to abortion services wasn't an issue, unless you define "having access" as "being fully subsidized".
You're working both sides of the street here. You're saying on the one hand that if laws on the books had been enforced, no Gosnell, then turning right around and blaming those same laws on the books for creating the situation whereupon a Gosnell can operate. Make up your mind.
Planned Parenthood referred women to Gosnell's clinic and, having heard about the abuses, didn't take any action to investigate or report them to authorities.

[Steven Ertelt writes:] "But Planned Parenthood Southeast Pennsylvania president and CEO Dayle Steinberg admitted this week at a fundraiser -- http://www.ppspdirect.org/spring-gathering.as... -- that the abortion business knew of the problems at Gosnell’s Philadelphia abortion facility.

Apparently Planned Parenthood did not report it to the state health department or other state or local officials who could have done something about it. Instead, it appears the abortion giant left it up to women Gosnell injured or traumatized to make public officials aware of his House of Horrors.

“We would always encourage them to report it to the Department of Health,” Steinberg said of women who reported problems at Gosnell’s abortion clinic to Planned Parenthood staff.

Why would the nation’s biggest abortion chain not report the problems? Maybe because it referred women to Gosnell for abortions that were later in pregnancy than it would do.

As James Taranto writes in the Wall Street Journal [ http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142412788... ]:

The advent of “safe, legal abortion” didn’t interfere with Gosnell’s back-alley career. The grand jury’s account suggests that other abortionists treated him less as an outlaw than as a niche player in the abortion market. He earned a bad reputation in Philadelphia but received referrals from across the Eastern Seaboard. Many of the women dispatched to him were “well beyond” 24 weeks pregnant, the legal limit in Pennsylvania.

Morgana 9

“And the Horse You Rode in On”

Level 1

Since: Sep 08

Minneapolis

#136 Jul 11, 2013
Le Jimbo wrote:
<quoted text>Do you see mass murderers in a good light also?
What mass murders ya idiot?

Just another way for you to degrade women. Typical misogynist. Your hatred of women of women again bears its ugly head. Poor Le Dumbo.

Morgana 9

“And the Horse You Rode in On”

Level 1

Since: Sep 08

Minneapolis

#137 Jul 11, 2013
CBOW wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually you sound like the one reaching here. If you don't like being categorized by the polticos, then take responsibility for your actions. Your choices start at intercourse. Your decide to engage in it and then expect politicians to defend your choice with a law. You are the very one who wants politicians to keep their noses out of your crotch, unless they provide you with an out for your negligent behavior. NICE!!! Hysterical! If women have enough ability to find a sperm donor, why don't they have enough "ability" to raise their offspring?
Sorry COW, abortion IS taking responsibility!

Just because you wish to punish women/girls with the elimination of choice is your personal problem.

Who the fck made you the determiner over each and every women/girls circumstances and reproductive life? Exactly WHO?

Now you display that they should be MADE to raise the offspring too? Kinda blows your adoption BS all to hell doesn't it??

So weak, so predictable! Now tell me WHO gives you this false sense of authority over the lives of women/girls?? WHO?
Cujo

Leask, Canada

#138 Jul 11, 2013
CBOW wrote:
<quoted text>"Having sex is not automatic agreement to carry any resulting pregnancy to term. Just because she has the MOST control there, doesn't mean her control ENDS there." Lack of control results in pregnancy. Since the dawn of the human race, pregnancy can be the result of sexual intercourse. To instill termination into the equation only serves to skew the facts. The human race believes itself to be so advanced, yet it can't even manage to prevent pregnancy, only stoop to eliminating the result of the primitive act of sex. Interesting, how far have we come???? Pathetic.
We do know how, and can prevent pregnancies. The problem is, concervative religious nutt jobs who don't want to prevent unwanted pregnancies either.
Cujo

Regina, Canada

#139 Jul 11, 2013
Conservative....
Dan

Omaha, NE

#140 Jul 11, 2013
Cujo wrote:
<quoted text>
We do know how, and can prevent pregnancies. The problem is, concervative religious nutt jobs who don't want to prevent unwanted pregnancies either.
Apparently, many don't know how.

US births in 2012 were 3.96 million; abortions for the same year were approx. 1.2 million. 24% of the combined 5.1 million pregnancies were aborted. I don't think contraceptives have a 24% failure rate.
Cat74

United States

#141 Jul 11, 2013
At some point the Supreme Court ruled slavery was constitutional. That was turned around, and we will either make reasonable changes in abortion laws, and restrict late term abortions, or we will turn it around. Obviously is you don't abort the unborn it is a baby. It is not a glob.

“Blessed Be”

Level 1

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#142 Jul 11, 2013
Cat74 wrote:
At some point the Supreme Court ruled slavery was constitutional. That was turned around, and we will either make reasonable changes in abortion laws, and restrict late term abortions, or we will turn it around. Obviously is you don't abort the unborn it is a baby. It is not a glob.
Wrong. Because the very same principal that says you cannot own an other person and make them labor for you, means you cannot own a pregnant woman's uterus and make her go through labor.

Level 1

Since: Feb 07

Location hidden

#143 Jul 11, 2013
Deborah wrote:
<quoted text>
Planned Parenthood referred women to Gosnell's clinic and, having heard about the abuses, didn't take any action to investigate or report them to authorities.
[Steven Ertelt writes:] "But Planned Parenthood Southeast Pennsylvania president and CEO Dayle Steinberg admitted this week at a fundraiser -- http://www.ppspdirect.org/spring-gathering.as... -- that the abortion business knew of the problems at Gosnell’s Philadelphia abortion facility.
Apparently Planned Parenthood did not report it to the state health department or other state or local officials who could have done something about it. Instead, it appears the abortion giant left it up to women Gosnell injured or traumatized to make public officials aware of his House of Horrors.
“We would always encourage them to report it to the Department of Health,” Steinberg said of women who reported problems at Gosnell’s abortion clinic to Planned Parenthood staff.
Why would the nation’s biggest abortion chain not report the problems? Maybe because it referred women to Gosnell for abortions that were later in pregnancy than it would do.
As James Taranto writes in the Wall Street Journal [ http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142412788... ]:
The advent of “safe, legal abortion” didn’t interfere with Gosnell’s back-alley career. The grand jury’s account suggests that other abortionists treated him less as an outlaw than as a niche player in the abortion market. He earned a bad reputation in Philadelphia but received referrals from across the Eastern Seaboard. Many of the women dispatched to him were “well beyond” 24 weeks pregnant, the legal limit in Pennsylvania.
The National Abortion Federation didn't report hi either:

"So too with the National Abortion Federation. NAF is an association of abortion
providers that upholds the strictest health and legal standards for its members. Gosnell,
bizarrely, applied for admission shortly after Karnamaya Mongar’s death. Despite his
various efforts to fool her, the evaluator from NAF readily noted that records were not
properly kept, that risks were not explained, that patients were not monitored, that
equipment was not available, that anesthesia was misused. It was the worst abortion
clinic she had ever inspected. Of course, she rejected Gosnell’s application. She just never told anyone in authority about all the horrible, dangerous things she had seen."

http://www.phila.gov/districtattorney/PDFs/Gr...

“BILLARY 2016 ”

Level 1

Since: Aug 07

Location hidden

#144 Jul 11, 2013
Le Jimbo wrote:
<quoted text>They are accountable for their actions or lack of action. Stay out of bars and booty calls and it will solve many of their problems.
Stay out of women's bedrooms, vaginas and uterus's and that will solve many of your problems, Le Fascist.

I do agree with your 1st statement, though. Women are accountable for their actions or lack of action. They don't need your heavy handed judgment to decide if they want to be a mother or not so take your own advice and mind your own business.
Cujo

Regina, Canada

#145 Jul 11, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
Apparently, many don't know how.
US births in 2012 were 3.96 million; abortions for the same year were approx. 1.2 million. 24% of the combined 5.1 million pregnancies were aborted. I don't think contraceptives have a 24% failure rate.
More education is needed.
Dan

Omaha, NE

#146 Jul 11, 2013
Cujo wrote:
<quoted text>
More education is needed.
I think that most people know how children come about.

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