Abortion bills force both parties to rethink political calculus

Jul 6, 2013 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Washington Post

People gather outside the state legislature as Senate Republicans gave their final approval to legislation requiring additional rules surrounding abortions in North Carolina, even as hundreds of protesters against the bill watched from the gallery in Raleigh, N.C., Wednesday,July 3. As a member of the Wisconsin State Assembly years ago, Republican ... (more)

Comments
661 - 680 of 1,168 Comments Last updated Nov 6, 2013
Dan

Omaha, NE

#681 Oct 19, 2013
Morgana 9 wrote:
<quoted text>
Quit your fcking whining.
These forums are a debate on choice verses anti choice. People who wish to allow women/girls the choice to carry a pregnancy and become a mother willingly and those who wish to force her to do both unwillingly. YOU are in the latter and a sniveling whiny anti choice example.
That's not a rebuttal.

“Blessed Be”

Level 1

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#682 Oct 19, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
.......and you just proved me out.
Motherhood basically places women on house arrest and squanders their talents, and pregnancy can be harmful, dangerous and costly. Nothing positive about either presented.
Bitner-I'll take an apology from you now.
I have nothing to apologize for. I said nothing about her comments on motherhood, but pregnancy.

I'll take an apology from YOU, however, for once again misrepresenting what I've spoken of.

“And the Horse You Rode in On”

Level 1

Since: Sep 08

Minneapolis

#683 Oct 19, 2013
Vet wrote:
<quoted text>I don't know anyone who would deny birth control for a woman who has been raped, or whose health or life is threatened. On demand abortion is wrong. I certainly recognize the sacrifice of mothers.
Obviously you have not connected to the wacky religious anti choice sites that only value the fetus in the cases of rape, health and life of the mother. They are determined to deny abortion for any reason.

On demand abortion IS right, it is the women who benefits NOTHING in an unwanted pregnancy for HER reasons. You consider motherhood a SACRIFICE? A SACRIFICE against her will when unwilling and to no benefit to herself??? How do you justify that? Thank you.

“And the Horse You Rode in On”

Level 1

Since: Sep 08

Minneapolis

#684 Oct 19, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
.......and you just proved me out.
Motherhood basically places women on house arrest and squanders their talents, and pregnancy can be harmful, dangerous and costly. Nothing positive about either presented.
Bitner-I'll take an apology from you now.
YES, it DID place women on house arrest, again can you dispute it?? NO YOU CAN'T thus your whine AGAIN!! Women were lead to believe that they had NO talents outside of subservience and were blocked from achieving due to discriminatory practices that gave them no choice. Along with being penalized for the possibility of pregnancy in the workplace. Go ahead...dispute it genius!!

AGAIN, care to dispute the FACT that pregnancy CAN BE harmful, dangerous AND costly?? NO YOU CAN'T thus again your persistent whining!!

Bitner does not owe YOU an apology...you haven't disputed anything nor proved otherwise!! You should be on your knees begging forgiveness as opposed to promoting your male hierarchy misogynistic religious opinions and beliefs pertaining to the control of women.

What you have in fact proved is you have no knowledge or concern for the plight of women, historically, economically or health and welfare wise, and that ALL your concern is fetus oriented!

EPIC FAIL DAN....again!

“And the Horse You Rode in On”

Level 1

Since: Sep 08

Minneapolis

#685 Oct 19, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
That's not a rebuttal.
OH REALLY? So YOU contend that these treads pertain to motherhood and not pregnancy, birth control and abortion?

Why don't you blow out of here and find the motherhood forum and refrain from comment in the abortion forum?? Idiot.
Dan

Omaha, NE

#686 Oct 19, 2013
Morgana 9 wrote:
<quoted text>
YES, it DID place women on house arrest, again can you dispute it?? NO YOU CAN'T thus your whine AGAIN!! Women were lead to believe that they had NO talents outside of subservience and were blocked from achieving due to discriminatory practices that gave them no choice. Along with being penalized for the possibility of pregnancy in the workplace. Go ahead...dispute it genius!!
AGAIN, care to dispute the FACT that pregnancy CAN BE harmful, dangerous AND costly?? NO YOU CAN'T thus again your persistent whining!!
Bitner does not owe YOU an apology...you haven't disputed anything nor proved otherwise!! You should be on your knees begging forgiveness as opposed to promoting your male hierarchy misogynistic religious opinions and beliefs pertaining to the control of women.
What you have in fact proved is you have no knowledge or concern for the plight of women, historically, economically or health and welfare wise, and that ALL your concern is fetus oriented!
EPIC FAIL DAN....again!
.......and in case anyone wasn't convinced, Morgana, again, helpfully affirms my post.
Dan

Omaha, NE

#687 Oct 19, 2013
Morgana 9 wrote:
<quoted text>
OH REALLY? So YOU contend that these treads pertain to motherhood and not pregnancy, birth control and abortion?
Why don't you blow out of here and find the motherhood forum and refrain from comment in the abortion forum?? Idiot.
.....you keep posting about motherhood. You can't find enough words to tell us all how it places women under house arrest, squanders their talents, etc.

I said that you have a low opinion of it and of pregnancy (it's costly, dangerous, etc.), and you keep on ringing the cash register.
Vet

Fayetteville, GA

#688 Oct 19, 2013
Morgana 9 wrote:
<quoted text>
Obviously you have not connected to the wacky religious anti choice sites that only value the fetus in the cases of rape, health and life of the mother. They are determined to deny abortion for any reason.
On demand abortion IS right, it is the women who benefits NOTHING in an unwanted pregnancy for HER reasons. You consider motherhood a SACRIFICE? A SACRIFICE against her will when unwilling and to no benefit to herself??? How do you justify that? Thank you.
The religious anti choice sites that only value the fetus in the cases of rape, health and life of the mother. I'm not sure what this means but those who oppose abortion in every case are rare. I know no one who supports that idea.
On demand abortion for other than those reasons enumerated above is most certainly wrong. Abortion for cosmetic reasons or convenience is evil. I didn't say that motherhood is a sacrifice, I said that I appreciate the sacrifice of my mother (the pain of childbirth and the pre natal experiences.) It sounds like that pregnancy to you has to benefit only you. That's a very selfish position.
Vet

Fayetteville, GA

#689 Oct 19, 2013
Morgana 9 wrote:
<quoted text>
Obviously you have not connected to the wacky religious anti choice sites that only value the fetus in the cases of rape, health and life of the mother. They are determined to deny abortion for any reason.
On demand abortion IS right, it is the women who benefits NOTHING in an unwanted pregnancy for HER reasons. You consider motherhood a SACRIFICE? A SACRIFICE against her will when unwilling and to no benefit to herself??? How do you justify that? Thank you.
"EW YORK - Police say a dead baby found in a teenage girl's shopping bag at a New York City lingerie store was born alive and then asphyxiated.

Police disclosed the findings yesterday. The city medical examiner's office says an autopsy was inconclusive and more tests are needed.

Police believe Tiana Rodriguez, 17, gave birth to the baby at a friend's house and that the infant was later asphyxiated.

The remains were discovered Thursday when a security guard stopped Rodriguez and her friend, Francis Estevez, at a Victoria's Secret store.

Both girls were arrested on petty larceny charges. Rodriguez may face more serious charges.
Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/news/nation_worl... ;

The child was born alive and then strangled. She aborted the child. Is this just swell with you?

“And the Horse You Rode in On”

Level 1

Since: Sep 08

Minneapolis

#690 Oct 19, 2013
Vet wrote:
<quoted text>
"EW YORK - Police say a dead baby found in a teenage girl's shopping bag at a New York City lingerie store was born alive and then asphyxiated.
Police disclosed the findings yesterday. The city medical examiner's office says an autopsy was inconclusive and more tests are needed.
Police believe Tiana Rodriguez, 17, gave birth to the baby at a friend's house and that the infant was later asphyxiated.
The remains were discovered Thursday when a security guard stopped Rodriguez and her friend, Francis Estevez, at a Victoria's Secret store.
Both girls were arrested on petty larceny charges. Rodriguez may face more serious charges.
Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/news/nation_worl... ;
The child was born alive and then strangled. She aborted the child. Is this just swell with you?
try to get ahold of yourself and make SOME sense. SHE gave birth, she did not abort.

abort
&#601;&#712;brt/
verb
1.
carry out or undergo the abortion of (a fetus).
synonyms: halt, stop, end, ax, call off, cut short, discontinue, terminate, arrest, cancel, scrub; More
(of a pregnant woman or female animal) have a miscarriage, with loss of the fetus.
synonyms: halt, stop, end, ax, call off, cut short, discontinue, terminate, arrest, cancel, scrub; More
BIOLOGY
(of an embryonic organ or organism) remain undeveloped; fail to mature.
2.
bring to a premature end because of a problem or fault.

If the story is correct she should should suffer the consequences. But feel free to continue with your make believe drama.

“And the Horse You Rode in On”

Level 1

Since: Sep 08

Minneapolis

#691 Oct 19, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
.......and in case anyone wasn't convinced, Morgana, again, helpfully affirms my post.
......and in case anyone wasn't convinced, Dancing Dan, again, helpfully dances by my questions claiming a false victory. Nothing new about that.
Vet

Fayetteville, GA

#692 Oct 19, 2013
Morgana 9 wrote:
<quoted text>
try to get ahold of yourself and make SOME sense. SHE gave birth, she did not abort.
abort
&#601;&#712;brt/
verb
1.
carry out or undergo the abortion of (a fetus).
synonyms: halt, stop, end, ax, call off, cut short, discontinue, terminate, arrest, cancel, scrub; More
(of a pregnant woman or female animal) have a miscarriage, with loss of the fetus.
synonyms: halt, stop, end, ax, call off, cut short, discontinue, terminate, arrest, cancel, scrub; More
BIOLOGY
(of an embryonic organ or organism) remain undeveloped; fail to mature.
2.
bring to a premature end because of a problem or fault.
If the story is correct she should should suffer the consequences. But feel free to continue with your make believe drama.
The fallacious argument that killing a baby outside the women's body is murder but killing the baby inside is not is just that, fallacious. A few minutes time does will not assuage your guilt at killing an innocent unborn child.

“BILLARY 2016 ”

Level 1

Since: Aug 07

Location hidden

#693 Oct 19, 2013
Vet wrote:
<quoted text>The fallacious argument that killing a baby outside the women's body is murder but killing the baby inside is not is just that, fallacious. A few minutes time does will not assuage your guilt at killing an innocent unborn child.
A doctor cannot pronounce a fetus "live and viable" until it is born and takes it's first breath outside the host. The hospital cannot list a name on paper other than the moms because until a fetus is born, it is not considered "a live birth" or a life. The US government won't consider a fetus a child until it is born, documented, name given and then and only then will the US Government issue it a Social Security number, officially making it an American born citizen.

If you think terminating a dot in the womb that has no feeling and can't think, let alone CANNOT survive without the host, is the same as killing a living, breathing, feeling child, then you have no argument, only your emotions and opinion.

Abortion is and always will be legal in the US and throughout most of the world. You are expending energy to a losing cause because women are no longer slaves to men or 2nd class citizens. We have the right to control our bodies, inside and out.

If you're so concerned about children, why not volunteer to help feed the 40,000 children that starve to death every day world wide?

“And the Horse You Rode in On”

Level 1

Since: Sep 08

Minneapolis

#694 Oct 19, 2013
Vet wrote:
<quoted text>The religious anti choice sites that only value the fetus in the cases of rape, health and life of the mother. I'm not sure what this means but those who oppose abortion in every case are rare. I know no one who supports that idea.
On demand abortion for other than those reasons enumerated above is most certainly wrong. Abortion for cosmetic reasons or convenience is evil. I didn't say that motherhood is a sacrifice, I said that I appreciate the sacrifice of my mother (the pain of childbirth and the pre natal experiences.) It sounds like that pregnancy to you has to benefit only you. That's a very selfish position.
""The religious anti choice sites that only value the fetus in the cases of rape, health and life of the mother. I'm not sure what this means but those who oppose abortion in every case are rare. I know no one who supports that idea.""

BULLSHIT.

http://www.prolifephysicians.org/rarecases.ht...

http://www.lifenews.com/2013/10/11/is-abortio...

http://www.lifenews.com/2013/10/11/is-abortio...

http://www.google.com/search...

http://www.seanmcdowell.org/index.php/ethics/...

http://www.lifesitenews.com/blog/rape-and-abo...

http://www.google.com/search...

Define convenience, then please share how many pregnancies you have carried.

I am not interested in what you consider "evil" or selfish. I perfectly well understand that some think women should not be ALLOWED to be selfish but do not apply the same to men...they are perfectly welcome to be as selfish and greedy as they please.

By the way...here are your words:
Vet wrote:
<quoted text>I don't know anyone who would deny birth control for a woman who has been raped, or whose health or life is threatened. On demand abortion is wrong. I certainly recognize the sacrifice of mothers.
You recognize the sacrifice of mothers indicating motherhood should be a sacrifice. Nice try at back peddling. You believe that women should produce against their will, thus mandatory sacrifice...correct??
Vet

Fayetteville, GA

#695 Oct 19, 2013
x0x0x wrote:
<quoted text>A doctor cannot pronounce a fetus "live and viable" until it is born and takes it's first breath outside the host. The hospital cannot list a name on paper other than the moms because until a fetus is born, it is not considered "a live birth" or a life. The US government won't consider a fetus a child until it is born, documented, name given and then and only then will the US Government issue it a Social Security number, officially making it an American born citizen.
If you think terminating a dot in the womb that has no feeling and can't think, let alone CANNOT survive without the host, is the same as killing a living, breathing, feeling child, then you have no argument, only your emotions and opinion.
Abortion is and always will be legal in the US and throughout most of the world. You are expending energy to a losing cause because women are no longer slaves to men or 2nd class citizens. We have the right to control our bodies, inside and out.
If you're so concerned about children, why not volunteer to help feed the 40,000 children that starve to death every day world wide?
Life is life and to terminate that life , though only a dot is murder. I do support starving children through Catholic Charities, so buzz off.

“And the Horse You Rode in On”

Level 1

Since: Sep 08

Minneapolis

#696 Oct 19, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
.....you keep posting about motherhood. You can't find enough words to tell us all how it places women under house arrest, squanders their talents, etc.
I said that you have a low opinion of it and of pregnancy (it's costly, dangerous, etc.), and you keep on ringing the cash register.
I have a low opinion of forced motherhood and a low opinion of motherhood without any other options. But you know that and are doing your customary dance routine.

The cash register was brought up by YOU:#639
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>

You haven't put forth on the boards at least half a zillion posts RE: pregnancy is harmful, dangerous, costly, etc? You just now ran the "risk" card out, like we're still on the prairie. You do it just about every time you post.
AND SO I ASK AGAIN, care to dispute, pregnancy CAN BE harmful, dangerous, costly???

Whats a matter Dan, AFRAID??? Of course you are.
Vet

Fayetteville, GA

#697 Oct 19, 2013
Morgana 9 wrote:
<quoted text>
""The religious anti choice sites that only value the fetus in the cases of rape, health and life of the mother. I'm not sure what this means but those who oppose abortion in every case are rare. I know no one who supports that idea.""
BULLSHIT.
http://www.prolifephysicians.org/rarecases.ht...
http://www.lifenews.com/2013/10/11/is-abortio...
http://www.lifenews.com/2013/10/11/is-abortio...
http://www.google.com/search...
http://www.seanmcdowell.org/index.php/ethics/...
http://www.lifesitenews.com/blog/rape-and-abo...
http://www.google.com/search...
Define convenience, then please share how many pregnancies you have carried.
I am not interested in what you consider "evil" or selfish. I perfectly well understand that some think women should not be ALLOWED to be selfish but do not apply the same to men...they are perfectly welcome to be as selfish and greedy as they please.
By the way...here are your words:
<quoted text>
You recognize the sacrifice of mothers indicating motherhood should be a sacrifice. Nice try at back peddling. You believe that women should produce against their will, thus mandatory sacrifice...correct??
My statement was,'I don't know anyone who would deny the victim of rape or when it is a risk to the mother, an abortion.' That's an accurate statement no matter how you try to twist those words. It is what it is. Recognizing the sacrifice of motherhood does not indicate that it should be a sacrifice. Changing words in a poster's post does not further your argument. It negates it.

“And the Horse You Rode in On”

Level 1

Since: Sep 08

Minneapolis

#698 Oct 19, 2013
Vet wrote:
<quoted text>The fallacious argument that killing a baby outside the women's body is murder but killing the baby inside is not is just that, fallacious. A few minutes time does will not assuage your guilt at killing an innocent unborn child.
I support RvW Einstein. I had an abortion at 3 weeks do to complications/health, now I ask again how many pregnancies have you carried?? Now please...tell me about a few minutes time in the first 3 weeks, or in the first trimester drawn out in RvW??

“And the Horse You Rode in On”

Level 1

Since: Sep 08

Minneapolis

#699 Oct 19, 2013
Vet wrote:
<quoted text>Life is life and to terminate that life , though only a dot is murder. I do support starving children through Catholic Charities, so buzz off.
WE don't care about your male fantasy religious beliefs. AND I certainly do not care about the fcking catholic pervert misogynistic patriarch church and their pervert charities. Now again....how many pregnancies have you carried?

“BILLARY 2016 ”

Level 1

Since: Aug 07

Location hidden

#700 Oct 19, 2013
Vet wrote:
<quoted text>Life is life and to terminate that life , though only a dot is murder. I do support starving children through Catholic Charities, so buzz off.
Sorry. If you are dependent upon a host, you aren't a life. You can't kill something that hasn't lived independently so it's not called murder, it's called abortion and it's legal now and always will be.

Of course you support the legal fund of the Catholic Church known as Catholic Charities. I doubt very much of your money went to feed children. Most of it goes to protecting the pedophiles who rape them. Pray about those poor children why don't you or is it just the unborn you care about?

Women are capable of worrying about and caring for themselves so get a life and stay out of ours.

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