Mythbusting on immigration

Aug 10, 2013 Full story: The Washington Post 401

Doug Massey , anyway. Massey is one of the nation's preeminent immigration scholars.

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“too hard to handle”

Level 4

Since: Jun 11

butler, pa

#363 Oct 25, 2013
Memo From Turner wrote:
<quoted text>
The inspection process at Ellis Island was not nearly as difficult as people make it out to be. There were a total of 23 questions and doctors were allotted six seconds to conduct an examination. The entire process took between two hours and five hours and more than 98% of people were allowed to enter. Others were sent to a quarantine area for a couple of day observation if they appeared to be sick. Nobody was monitored after entry.
It has been said that if past immigrants had to go through the processes in place now then 90% of immigrants would have never come here.
Conversely if we built welcome centers at the border and told people there was a 98% chance that they could immigrant legally within two hours it is unlikely that many people would enter illegally.
It still wasn't a free pass. How many illegals get inspected today? How many have to answer any questions at all? The immigrants who went through ellis island were peasants, poor people who had no free help. They paid thier way, worked hard, played by the rules and became naturalized citizens. Some found it too hard and went back. Realize also that the steam boat trip took a month with quarters in steerage (disease ridden, one bathroom for 4 families, bunking cramped 3 to 4 high). That was an ardous voyage. It was kinda like a litmus test for the immigrant. Surviving the trip was the first test of the immigrant. It was a heck of a lot more difficult than just jumping in a car and driving across a countries
border.

I feel as if your comment is denigrating the effort, resolve, and dedication of those who immigrated and were detetmined to do it the right way or die trying.
Memo From Turner

Bellmore, NY

#364 Oct 25, 2013
Oldglory wrote:
<quoted text>
Despite the gliches e-verify is around 98% effective. It is only mandated in certain businesses like government offices for example. When I say mandate I mean every business from the smallest to the largest in the private sector also. Some things are necessary to prevent fraud and money shouldn't be the issue. We already spend tax dollars on other programs to prevent fraud. Why should this be any different? All you are doing is making excuses because you have no problem with illegal aliens stealing jobs from Americans. Admit it and truth shall set you free.
E-Verify is 16 years old and still has glitches and that is fine with you, but the three week old ACA website has glitches and it is a catastrophe.

Yes the ACA website is clunky, but the worst thing that can happen to a person is the site freezes. Annoying yes, but not a big deal.

If E-Verify fails people lose their jobs. Based on your 98% figure that means over 3 million people will be jobless. That is a bit worse then have having to hit a refresh button.
Memo From Turner

Bellmore, NY

#365 Oct 25, 2013
Don Joe wrote:
<quoted text>
We are much in agreement. I would suggest however, that while both major political parties of the US wants to keep things the way they are, the public is not happy about the way things are. Wages are being severely depressed in the USA, and I would bet that for most of the illegals, they would prefer to stay in their own countries, if they had a chance to support their families there. I am inclined to think that they come here for the opportunity to work for these companies who are intent on doing whatever is necessary to increase profits, even illegal things. They don't mind the wages which are so much lower than normal wages here, because it is so much higher than what they could get at home.
It is a complex situation and clearly nobody likes it. Unfortunately everybody digs in. There are so many small changes that can be made to the law that would help a lot, but people refuse to even discuss them.

It is interesting that you mention that many people would prefer to be in their own countries. That is one of the things about legalization that many people do not understand. The first thing somebody does if they are able to obtain legal status is they immediately leave the country. A lot of these people have not been home in many years. Many never come back.

We frequently hear people say they should all go home and come back legally. Nobody would disagree with that, but many people do not realize that the US imposes very stiff penalties on any illegal immigrant who tries to leave the US.

It is crazy. If a person is in the US illegally and voluntarily decides to go home and get legal the US imposes a penalty that bans them from even seeking a visa for ten years.

So they have a choice. If they lay low and stay out of trouble they can probably stay here illegally forever, but if they try to go back they suffer severe penalties and can not return for a long time.

To make matters worse, if they do stay here and get caught and forcibly deported the ten year bar does not apply to them. They can seek a visa immediately.

It does not provide much of an incentive to leave on their own.

That is just one example of changes to the law that should not be controversial, but somehow nobody even talks about it.
Oldglory

Banning, CA

#366 Oct 26, 2013
Memo From Turner wrote:
<quoted text>
E-Verify is 16 years old and still has glitches and that is fine with you, but the three week old ACA website has glitches and it is a catastrophe.
Yes the ACA website is clunky, but the worst thing that can happen to a person is the site freezes. Annoying yes, but not a big deal.
If E-Verify fails people lose their jobs. Based on your 98% figure that means over 3 million people will be jobless. That is a bit worse then have having to hit a refresh button.
Quit changing the subject. I have made no remarks at all about the ACA website besides this is the illegal immigration forum not the Healthcare forum.

They are constantly improving the e-verify program and no one loses their job if their SS number comes up suspect unless they can't prove it belongs to them. How many people can't do that? They are given a good measure of time to clear it up. You're grasping at straws now. Where did you pull out that 3 million figure? That's ridiculous to claim that that many people can't prove that their SS belongs to them.
spud

Reading, PA

#367 Oct 26, 2013
Memo From Turner wrote:
<quoted text>

It has been said that if past immigrants had to go through the processes in place now then 90% of immigrants would have never come here.
Did it ever occur to you that this is the result we are looking for with our immigration laws? There are at least 100 million people around the world who would love to come and chase the American dream. If it were a free for all like illegal immigration has made it, how long do you think this country could last? We already legally admit more legal immigrants yearly than the rest of the world combined. If anything, we need to lower our legal immigration numbers to protect American jobs and wages. Our immigration laws are supposed to be used to help us select the most desirable immigrants, the ones we NEED, not to assure every foreigner that they will have their shot to make good in America.

Level 1

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#368 Oct 26, 2013
spud wrote:
<quoted text> If it were a free for all like illegal immigration has made it, how long do you think this country could last?
Forever!!!!!

No borders, the world is ours!!!!!!!!!!1

Since: Oct 13

New York

#369 Oct 26, 2013
teddyr4me wrote:
<quoted text>I have checked it out before, searching for info on my ancestors. Very interesting site.
I might like you.

That's, if you're a woman.

“Work hard at work worth doing.”

Level 10

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#370 Oct 26, 2013
Holla Isabella wrote:
<quoted text>
I might like you.
That's, if you're a woman.
You know I am, but how many personalities do YOU have?
Oldglory

Banning, CA

#371 Oct 26, 2013
Memo From Turner wrote:
<quoted text>
It is a complex situation and clearly nobody likes it. Unfortunately everybody digs in. There are so many small changes that can be made to the law that would help a lot, but people refuse to even discuss them.
It is interesting that you mention that many people would prefer to be in their own countries. That is one of the things about legalization that many people do not understand. The first thing somebody does if they are able to obtain legal status is they immediately leave the country. A lot of these people have not been home in many years. Many never come back.
We frequently hear people say they should all go home and come back legally. Nobody would disagree with that, but many people do not realize that the US imposes very stiff penalties on any illegal immigrant who tries to leave the US.
It is crazy. If a person is in the US illegally and voluntarily decides to go home and get legal the US imposes a penalty that bans them from even seeking a visa for ten years.
So they have a choice. If they lay low and stay out of trouble they can probably stay here illegally forever, but if they try to go back they suffer severe penalties and can not return for a long time.
To make matters worse, if they do stay here and get caught and forcibly deported the ten year bar does not apply to them. They can seek a visa immediately.
It does not provide much of an incentive to leave on their own.
That is just one example of changes to the law that should not be controversial, but somehow nobody even talks about it.
How about they don't come here in violation of immigration laws in the first place? My what a novel idea. Then they wouldn't have to worry about exiting and returning.
Oldglory

Banning, CA

#372 Oct 26, 2013
Memo From Turner wrote:
<quoted text>
That is pretty much the whole problem in a nut shell. If anybody was serious they would just go after the employers and everything else would take care of itself.
Sadly you are correct about everybody liking things the way they are. The Republicans give themselves away by not going after businesses, but the Democrats are no better insisting on citizenship or nothing. Legalization would accomplish most of their stated goals, but they won't have it. Everybody prefers to just run on the issue instead of resolving it.
Who's everybody? Certainly not most regular Americans. The politicians with agendas for votes and placating their corporate masters have our hands tied. How many times have they made promises and broke them after we elected them? None of them can be trusted and they just plain don't give a damn about us. Certainly the solution for the American people isn't amnesty.

“too hard to handle”

Level 4

Since: Jun 11

butler, pa

#373 Oct 26, 2013
Ok, test time for everyone.

I have two friends who want to immigrate to the US.

One is from Bosnia. When asked by ins to take classes and work hard to become a citizen, says (in broken english) I will do it, anything I am asked, if I need to do anything I will do it, I am grateful".

The second man is from guatemala. When asked to take classes and work hard to obtain citizenship responds in spanish that he does not understand english and does not even try a response in english.

Which of these two men will become a successful productive american citizen?

The difference is in attitude and willingness to work hard and do it right.

“too hard to handle”

Level 4

Since: Jun 11

butler, pa

#374 Oct 26, 2013
Oops, I hit send twice.
Memo From Turner

Bellmore, NY

#375 Oct 26, 2013
Oldglory wrote:
<quoted text>
Quit changing the subject. I have made no remarks at all about the ACA website besides this is the illegal immigration forum not the Healthcare forum.
They are constantly improving the e-verify program and no one loses their job if their SS number comes up suspect unless they can't prove it belongs to them. How many people can't do that? They are given a good measure of time to clear it up. You're grasping at straws now. Where did you pull out that 3 million figure? That's ridiculous to claim that that many people can't prove that their SS belongs to them.
Nobody will lose their job? Have you ever used E-Verify? Do you know how it works?

Of course people lose their jobs. That is the whole point of the program you are championing.

The Government Accounting Office estimates that 770,000 American workers would lose their jobs due to database errors if E-Verify was mandatory. Last year it is estimated that 80,000 Americans unfairly lost their jobs due to database errors and your solution is to make it mandatory and increase that number by a factor of 22.

“too hard to handle”

Level 4

Since: Jun 11

butler, pa

#376 Oct 27, 2013
I checked the us immigration website. The process doesn't look like its too hard. Pay $189 for forms and fees. The website gives help to move through the process and sells a cd to help out. What with all the internet access free wifi in lots of places and access to laptops and iphones and droids and such, the process looks doable for just about anyone. It just requires the right attitude and effort.
Level 5

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#377 Oct 27, 2013
Memo From Turner wrote:
<quoted text>
Nobody will lose their job? Have you ever used E-Verify? Do you know how it works?
Of course people lose their jobs. That is the whole point of the program you are championing.
The Government Accounting Office estimates that 770,000 American workers would lose their jobs due to database errors if E-Verify was mandatory. Last year it is estimated that 80,000 Americans unfairly lost their jobs due to database errors and your solution is to make it mandatory and increase that number by a factor of 22.
So, how should legality to work in this country be vetted? Are you someone who thinks that there should be no standards?
Level 5

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#378 Oct 27, 2013
It's amazing how some folks are squawking about eVerify being a failed program, but don't complain about the Affordable Care Act, and how much of a colossal failure that is,$500M dollars later. Thank goodness I get insurance through my employer, and it being a solid company, the company has no plans to throw its employees into the shark-ridden waters known as Obama-care.

Why don't we worry about ourselves first, and if we have any benevolence left after cleaning up our finances and our government, we can worry about bringing into the fold those who came in 'sin papeles'.
Memo From Turner

Bellmore, NY

#379 Oct 27, 2013
OneRepublic wrote:
It's amazing how some folks are squawking about eVerify being a failed program, but don't complain about the Affordable Care Act, and how much of a colossal failure that is,$500M dollars later. Thank goodness I get insurance through my employer, and it being a solid company, the company has no plans to throw its employees into the shark-ridden waters known as Obama-care.
Why don't we worry about ourselves first, and if we have any benevolence left after cleaning up our finances and our government, we can worry about bringing into the fold those who came in 'sin papeles'.
A failed program that is not even in effect yet? Since you are now predicting the future why don't you do something useful and tell us who will win the super bowl this year.

That is good that you get your insurance from your employer. Most people do, but it also shows what a selfish pig you are. You get something for free, yet you have nothing but contempt for people who pay thousands of dollars for the same thing.
spud

Reading, PA

#380 Oct 27, 2013
superwilly wrote:
Ok, test time for everyone.
I have two friends who want to immigrate to the US.
One is from Bosnia. When asked by ins to take classes and work hard to become a citizen, says (in broken english) I will do it, anything I am asked, if I need to do anything I will do it, I am grateful".
The second man is from guatemala. When asked to take classes and work hard to obtain citizenship responds in spanish that he does not understand english and does not even try a response in english.
Which of these two men will become a successful productive american citizen?
The difference is in attitude and willingness to work hard and do it right.
You're absolutely right super, but our leaders are looking for those that can make their rich buddies richer. They're only interested in what is good for their useless political careers. Being good for this country has absolutely nothing to do with it.
Level 5

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#381 Oct 27, 2013
Memo From Turner wrote:
<quoted text>
A failed program that is not even in effect yet? Since you are now predicting the future why don't you do something useful and tell us who will win the super bowl this year.
That is good that you get your insurance from your employer. Most people do, but it also shows what a selfish pig you are. You get something for free, yet you have nothing but contempt for people who pay thousands of dollars for the same thing.
Wow, a person doesn't have to be clairvoyant to figure out that the Obamacare rollout is a disaster.

I don't get my insurance for free from my employer, joyous as that would make me, they subsidize and my monthly contribution is $148 for medical and dental, it's rolled into my total compensation package, base salary + benefits, that's how corporate America works. So, because I don't want to be taxed IN ADDITION to that, it makes me a selfish pig? How about that fact that I don't want for the government to take out more from my paycheck than the 24% they already do? If it were up to liberals, folks would work and the pay would go directly to the fed government to be funneled directly to layabouts and welfare cheats, with just enough left to get me a tank of gas to get me to work for another 2 weeks.

I guess that would be ok, as long as no one is held accountable for their actions.
Level 5

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#382 Oct 27, 2013
That's right, I consider Obamacare to be just another tax, when the IRS got involved, how could it be anything but??????????

I'm inviting you to a tea party, Memo, bring your own cup.

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