Alternative Immigration Reform Plan ...

Level 6

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#166 Feb 6, 2013
spud wrote:
The FACT that Democrats hate the idea of having an E verify system along with the FACT that the Republican leadership in the House stonewalled E verify legislation last summer should lead any reasonable person to see that neither party really wants to deal with this problem. The only thing I see here is political competition for votes.
I'll have to agree with that.

Both sides have tried to use this issue to their political advantage with little or no regard for what's best for this country.
spud

Chesapeake, OH

#167 Feb 6, 2013
_White American_ wrote:
<quoted text>Have you even read the plan that the Government has set forth? Because if you have then you have forgotten a lot of the things they want passed. Things that you want passed but just said they would never do. But lo and behold they are putting it into their legislation.
By the way "can't" never can, never has and never will. Those are losers words which I'm sure your not.
I wouldn't consider the Gang of 8, imbeciles all, a credible group. They are a hand picked collection of the most radical illegal alien supporters from both parties. Anyone with half a brain knew what these folks were going to come up with long before they ever announced their plan. As far as "can't" being a word for losers, I guess that would apply to our current administration and congress pretty well.

Level 6

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#168 Feb 6, 2013
spud wrote:
<quoted text>I wouldn't consider the Gang of 8, imbeciles all, a credible group. They are a hand picked collection of the most radical illegal alien supporters from both parties. Anyone with half a brain knew what these folks were going to come up with long before they ever announced their plan. As far as "can't" being a word for losers, I guess that would apply to our current administration and congress pretty well.
"As far as "can't" being a word for losers..."

I think it was a question of whether the word should have been can't or won't.

I would have said won't.

“Gloria Ad Caput Venire”

Level 9

Since: Jan 08

Trump 2016 and beyond

#169 Feb 6, 2013
spud wrote:
The FACT that Democrats hate the idea of having an E verify system along with the FACT that the Republican leadership in the House stonewalled E verify legislation last summer should lead any reasonable person to see that neither party really wants to deal with this problem. The only thing I see here is political competition for votes.
Got to agree. Is either party interested in what is important for America? In this age and IMO, e-verify should be the law of the land and ammended to our nation's constitution.

“Rico's Are Everywhere”

Level 5

Since: Dec 09

Gangland, North America

#170 Feb 6, 2013
spud wrote:
<quoted text>I wouldn't consider the Gang of 8, imbeciles all, a credible group. They are a hand picked collection of the most radical illegal alien supporters from both parties. Anyone with half a brain knew what these folks were going to come up with long before they ever announced their plan. As far as "can't" being a word for losers, I guess that would apply to our current administration and congress pretty well.
And your solution is to what??? Add some radical right wing obstructionist politicians into the mix and allow this immigration problem to fester for another 20 years?

I wanted the 49'ers to win on Sunday.... but they didn't. You see, in life there are winners and losers and right now, you're the loser on this dialogue so go take your obstructionism elsewhere.
spud

Chesapeake, OH

#171 Feb 6, 2013
Rico from East Los II wrote:
<quoted text>
And your solution is to what??? Add some radical right wing obstructionist politicians into the mix and allow this immigration problem to fester for another 20 years?
I wanted the 49'ers to win on Sunday.... but they didn't. You see, in life there are winners and losers and right now, you're the loser on this dialogue so go take your obstructionism elsewhere.
Actually, right now you are the loser since you're the one that wants comprehensive amnesty. Guess what, you don't have it. I know the corporate media wants amnesty bad and is painting its passage as a foregone conclusion, but you and your Democrat and neocon politicians are still on the outside looking in. And believe me, there are more people on my side than yours. We need to enforce our current laws before we abandon them as a lost cause. Sorry about the Niners. That's my team too.
dwg

Everett, MA

#172 Feb 6, 2013
NTRPRNR1 wrote:
<quoted text>Don't pretend you don't know that there are Democrats who also object to "pathway to citizenship"? It's MONEY, and it's just about as bad as turning hundred dollar bills into 100 pennies. The financial costs of so doing are HUGE over time. You don't seriously think it's only 11 million illegals we'll have to provide for in their senior years, do you? How about providing security for 20 million more people once they receive LPR status? Watch your own social security (assuming you are American?) plummet. THAT is what you're lobbying for - more misery in America for our seniors than is already in the forecast.
Did ANYBODY in Washington ask Americans approaching retirement if they wanted to cover 20 million more former illegals as well? Did anybody ask the men who were replaced by illegal labor how they feel about being pushed from their jobs and then watching their own social security pensions decline to the lowest benefit from the beginning - because they couldn't find work to keep earning and increasing their benefits? No, they did not.
Of course, those are only Americans. Who cares about them? Right? Not business. Not Washington who SERVES BUSINESS. Not illegal workers who want "theirs'" which is really OURS - No immgrant rights activists.
Nobody cares about American labor except a few of us who care a whole helluva lot about them and how wrong, greedy, selfish, and downright cruel this master manipulation of "amnesty" would be to Americans. You know? The people to whom this country is SUPPOSED to belong? And, you wonder why some are mad? Figure it out.
Hi NTRPRNR1,

Amnesty will not change America, because undocumented are here already in our fabrics, and how we see here in our state, we have 300.000 open opportunities, and unemployed american can not fill the position because they are not qualify for requirements of those position.

For sure, people need qualification program, and undocumented guys need just expend more money.

Do you agree?

thanks
dwg

Level 6

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#173 Feb 6, 2013
spud wrote:
<quoted text>Actually, right now you are the loser since you're the one that wants comprehensive amnesty. Guess what, you don't have it. I know the corporate media wants amnesty bad and is painting its passage as a foregone conclusion, but you and your Democrat and neocon politicians are still on the outside looking in. And believe me, there are more people on my side than yours. We need to enforce our current laws before we abandon them as a lost cause. Sorry about the Niners. That's my team too.
"...believe me, there are more people on my side than yours..."

You need to get out more often.

The majority of the American people are in favor of immigration reform that allows people currently here illegally to stay.

That's the whole point of this thread and the proposal most of us have been discussing as far as I'm concerned.

There is going to be some kind of reform and adjusted status. Both parties have a vested interest in getting this over with and off the table.

I'm just hoping we can find some way to make sure it doesn't involve a path to citizenship and does something to avoid the next wave of illegal immigration.

If you want to deny reality then just dig your heels in, close your eyes and keep saying "no" and we will end up with exactly what you say you don't want.

Level 6

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#174 Feb 6, 2013
positronium wrote:
<quoted text>Got to agree. Is either party interested in what is important for America? In this age and IMO, e-verify should be the law of the land and ammended to our nation's constitution.
I don't see the need for a constitutional amendment and I'm not sure how that would work especially considering how difficult it is and how much time it takes to amend the constitution, but we do agree on E-Verify.

Employers should not be allowed to hire anyone unless they know that person has a legal right to work here.

“Peace”

Level 8

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#175 Feb 6, 2013
The Sin City Cat wrote:
<quoted text>In 2003 the illegal alien population was estimated at 12 million. That is 10 years ago. 900,000 illegals enter this country every year. Many are not caught. Still think there is only 11 million illegals here? Our government will not tell the truth about how many illegals are really here. If the truth were known there wouldn't be a snowball's chance in hell of any sort of amnesty happening.
Yes Cat I do believe that we only have around 11million illegals here. What you aren't taking into consideration is all the ones that left when the economy bottomed out.
Presently illegal immigration from Mexico is at a net zero.

“Peace”

Level 8

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#176 Feb 6, 2013
Jaxxon wrote:
<quoted text>
I've been civil up until now and I've been called a lot of things in my life, but you start calling me a republican and the fight is on jerk.
ROFLMAO!

“Peace”

Level 8

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#177 Feb 6, 2013
spud wrote:
The FACT that Democrats hate the idea of having an E verify system along with the FACT that the Republican leadership in the House stonewalled E verify legislation last summer should lead any reasonable person to see that neither party really wants to deal with this problem. The only thing I see here is political competition for votes.
That was then this is now. Both sides are giving on some issues in order to get those issues they find more important through. That's where negotiation and compromise helps to pass legislation that has the bugs worked out of them.

“Peace”

Level 8

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#178 Feb 6, 2013
spud wrote:
<quoted text>I wouldn't consider the Gang of 8, imbeciles all, a credible group. They are a hand picked collection of the most radical illegal alien supporters from both parties. Anyone with half a brain knew what these folks were going to come up with long before they ever announced their plan. As far as "can't" being a word for losers, I guess that would apply to our current administration and congress pretty well.
So you don't know what's in the legislation they came up with.

"_White American_ wrote:
<quoted text>Have you even read the plan that the Government has set forth? Because if you have then you have forgotten a lot of the things they want passed. Things that you want passed but just said they would never do. But lo and behold they are putting it into their legislation.
By the way "can't" never can, never has and never will. Those are losers words which I'm sure your not."

“Peace”

Level 8

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#179 Feb 6, 2013
Jaxxon wrote:
<quoted text>
Everybody knows by now that I didn't vote for Obama in 2008, but I took a good hard look at what the republican party had become and what they had to offer and the decision to vote for Obama in 2013 was a lot easier to make than I ever thoguht it would be.
Ditto! Then after the election I was sure beyond a shadow of doubt whe Romney cancelled all his political workers credit cards. Thus leaving them stranded in other states with no money to get back, pay for their hotels or food.
Not a very nice guy and not at all for other Americans even those that were doing all they could to get him elected.

“Try Reuters.”

Level 8

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#180 Feb 6, 2013
dwg wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi NTRPRNR1,
Amnesty will not change America, because undocumented are here already in our fabrics, and how we see here in our state, we have 300.000 open opportunities, and unemployed american can not fill the position because they are not qualify for requirements of those position.
For sure, people need qualification program, and undocumented guys need just expend more money.
Do you agree?
thanks
dwg
You certainly aren't going to fill those slots with illegal immigrants. You're talking about trained and skilled jobs that are going unfilled. That involves LEGAL immigrants or qualified applicants moving across country to take them.

Amnesty WILL change America, especially if it provides a pathway to citizenship and doesn't come with REAL enforcement in the workplace. All it will do is what it did to the last wave of illegals who were amnestied in 1986. Do you know what happened to them by any chance? Well, for the majority of those who came to work in the trades and construction, they had the pleasure of seeing their own wages decline and lost jobs just like other Americans. They were replaced by the cheaper labor of new illegals competing. What makes you think it would be different this time if we afford them a path to citizenship?

Who is going to pay them Social Security and Medicare when they "retire"? WE are. At a minimum, about half of them never paid a penny into that program because they work for the cash payday or live off the welfare provided their American born children and/or pick up cash doing odd jobs on the side. Do you get it yet? They didn't pay in, but we'll ALL have to pay out to retire them and provide them healthcare.

As far as I'm concerned, if they're TGW, their employers can pay for their healthcare - not the taxpayers in America. And, if they want to retire here? They can take whatever contributions they've already made (with interest), leave the country, get in the line to come back legally, and IF they make the cut and are admitted? Then, they can repay their social security accounts and go from there to earn what everybody else has to earn to draw from the fund.

With people who came here with no skills, no education, WHY should they be part of chain migration and family reunification? Do you know what America gets with that program? More people without skills or education whose needs are great than their contributions.

It's time this country got smart like other countries around the globe and expedited legal immigration for folks who CAN make a contribution and stop with the influx of people who will take more than they can ever give.

I say let the children who were brought here through no freewill and who we have educated have a pathway to citizenship. Everybody else who KNEW they were violating our laws should never get that option. It will only attract even MORE illegal immigration.

The end result of unfettered illegal immigration over time is always a failed state. I don't want the state to fail.

“THE RUMBLE WILL BECOME A ROAR”

Level 8

Since: Dec 06

United States of America

#181 Feb 6, 2013
_White American_ wrote:
<quoted text>I'm sure that we have a lot of areas that are in need of many more jobs. Were these jobs all nursing, cpr and blue collar jobs or did they consist of moping and cleaning or gardening type of work? Just wondered because hospital jobs aren't ones that most illegals would be getting into. So I don't know how they would have any impack on them.
I was not referring to illegals taking the jobs, I was referring to the number of applicants vs the number of job openings. There are many illegals who work in the healthcare industry, nursing homes, hospitals, doctors offices, etc. There many jobs that do not require them to take care of patients.

“Gloria Ad Caput Venire”

Level 9

Since: Jan 08

Trump 2016 and beyond

#182 Feb 6, 2013
Jaxxon wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't see the need for a constitutional amendment and I'm not sure how that would work especially considering how difficult it is and how much time it takes to amend the constitution, but we do agree on E-Verify.
Employers should not be allowed to hire anyone unless they know that person has a legal right to work here.
I'll concur, and those who violate this rule should be dealt with swiftly using zero tolerance principles to include mandatory prison time in addition to heavy fine without any chance of plea bargain.
It's time we put our foot down and stop wasting time implementing these laws.

“THE RUMBLE WILL BECOME A ROAR”

Level 8

Since: Dec 06

United States of America

#183 Feb 6, 2013
How many times have I stated this?

Wednesday, February 06, 2013
"Path To Citizenship" Not Desired For Many From Mexico

Read more: http://www.wtag.com/pages/paulwestcott.html...

“Peace”

Level 8

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#184 Feb 6, 2013
NTRPRNR1 wrote:
<quoted text>You certainly aren't going to fill those slots with illegal immigrants. You're talking about trained and skilled jobs that are going unfilled. That involves LEGAL immigrants or qualified applicants moving across country to take them.
Amnesty WILL change America, especially if it provides a pathway to citizenship and doesn't come with REAL enforcement in the workplace. All it will do is what it did to the last wave of illegals who were amnestied in 1986. Do you know what happened to them by any chance? Well, for the majority of those who came to work in the trades and construction, they had the pleasure of seeing their own wages decline and lost jobs just like other Americans. They were replaced by the cheaper labor of new illegals competing. What makes you think it would be different this time if we afford them a path to citizenship?
Who is going to pay them Social Security and Medicare when they "retire"? WE are. At a minimum, about half of them never paid a penny into that program because they work for the cash payday or live off the welfare provided their American born children and/or pick up cash doing odd jobs on the side. Do you get it yet? They didn't pay in, but we'll ALL have to pay out to retire them and provide them healthcare.
As far as I'm concerned, if they're TGW, their employers can pay for their healthcare - not the taxpayers in America. And, if they want to retire here? They can take whatever contributions they've already made (with interest), leave the country, get in the line to come back legally, and IF they make the cut and are admitted? Then, they can repay their social security accounts and go from there to earn what everybody else has to earn to draw from the fund.
With people who came here with no skills, no education, WHY should they be part of chain migration and family reunification? Do you know what America gets with that program? More people without skills or education whose needs are great than their contributions.
It's time this country got smart like other countries around the globe and expedited legal immigration for folks who CAN make a contribution and stop with the influx of people who will take more than they can ever give.
I say let the children who were brought here through no freewill and who we have educated have a pathway to citizenship. Everybody else who KNEW they were violating our laws should never get that option. It will only attract even MORE illegal immigration.
The end result of unfettered illegal immigration over time is always a failed state. I don't want the state to fail.
Reply to follow. Shades of gr.
:)

“Peace”

Level 8

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#185 Feb 6, 2013
Reply Ntr.

"What makes you think it would be different this time if we afford them a path to citizenship?"
Citizenship isn't the motivation for illegals to come here. I would be willing to bet that the majority of those last amnestied never became a citizen. I don't find it very Constitutional to put someone in an underclass with which they can Never step outside of. Nor to punish someone the rest of their lives for doing something wrong, especially when it consisted of working for a living.
The legislation being talked about presently has the interior enforcement in it and that's what will keep another influx from coming in here. After all if they can't work why bother.
Also what they are saying about Citizenship is not a guarantee that any that might want to become one will ever make it. Plus if they did I believe between the wait for a green card (required prior to applying for citizenship) then the required number of years to hold a green card, then the back of the line thing. The fastest would be 13yrs but most likely far longer because they would have to wait for those already in line.
Citizenship that the legislation is holding out there for illegals will be hard a slippery expensive road with no guarantees.
As to family reunification I'm both for it and against it. Let me explain. Extended families I'm against. That's were we start to get bogged down with too many. But I'm for family reunification for close family members. Such as spouses, minor children or parents.
By the way are you saying that those children that were brought here at no fault of their own won't be allowed to apply for citizenship if they didn't get an education? Is that education a high school diploma or a college degree? I wasn't clear about that part.

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