“Peace”

Level 8

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#125 Feb 5, 2013
The Sin City Cat wrote:
<quoted text>This will be just like 1986. No enforcement of any laws passed. No securing of the border. I don't care what computer technology exists today. Its worthless unless someone uses it. Wont happen. The idea is to create here what exists in many other countries. The ruling elite and the all the rest of the people not of the ruling class. The rich and poor. No middle class what so ever.
I see the glass is half empty and it will never get full again no matter what we do.

Level 6

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#126 Feb 5, 2013
_White American_ wrote:
<quoted text>Why can't that guest worker program be set up for the agricultural field only? That labor force has been coming in and out of this Country for generations.
Hey WA. Just going back and catching up on some posts I missed.

Personally I see the need for two "guest worker" programs.

The first would be what's being discussed in this proposal to deal with the people already here illegally and already working.

The second would be a little different and would be to allow future guest workers in fields where it can be demonstrated that there is a shortage of qualified workers.

That would serve a s a pressure release valve of sorts taking the pressure off the desire to come here and the motivation of employers to hire undocumented workers.

I probably didn't say that very well.

“Gloria Ad Caput Venire”

Level 9

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#127 Feb 5, 2013
Jaxxon wrote:
<quoted text>
I have been receiving "Malware" alerts from my security program just before it disconnects me from Topix.
It's happening frequently.
Same here, up until yesterday afternoon when I accidentally deleted my user profile in my browser. When I restored the profile the problem disappeared only to reappear albeit much more randomly and not as often.
Now it seems to be gone,(for the time being).
My security software also listed multiple sites in addition to that netseer thing.

“Rico's Are Everywhere”

Level 5

Since: Dec 09

Gangland, North America

#128 Feb 5, 2013
Modifying the 14th amendment from jus soli to jus sanguinis by requiring one parent to be a lawfully present in the USA should be a hot topic in this debate.

“Peace”

Level 8

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#129 Feb 5, 2013
Freespirit8 wrote:
<quoted text>
So you think that winning the cooperation of those advocacy groups might make the documentation process run more smoothly and successfully? Are they open to the idea of adjusted status with no promise of assistance or entitlements while working toward permanent resident status? Seems to me there has to be a good faith agreement on both sides before we grant any kind of amnesty.
Agreed Frees we do have to have agreement on both sides just to get legislation passed.
It really seems to me to boil down to two different sticking points that I believe the current legislation that was proposed has addressed. One is that of all illegals getting this limited time offer to become legal. After all we are trying to stop and get rid of illegals in this Country. They are providing them a path to a path that would offer green cards and in years citizenship if they apply and are able to meet all criteria.
The other is the understandable fear of just having another influx of illegals once this is done. That's where the other side has to agree to legislation that makes e-verify or a system like that mandatory for all workers. That's where those that come on visa's or are on visa's that expired are picked up and deported unless they are able to justify a good reason they allowed thier visa to expire. Ex. Hospital stay, etc.
This is doable in my opinion.

“Peace”

Level 8

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#130 Feb 5, 2013
Jaxxon wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey WA. Just going back and catching up on some posts I missed.
Personally I see the need for two "guest worker" programs.
The first would be what's being discussed in this proposal to deal with the people already here illegally and already working.
The second would be a little different and would be to allow future guest workers in fields where it can be demonstrated that there is a shortage of qualified workers.
That would serve a s a pressure release valve of sorts taking the pressure off the desire to come here and the motivation of employers to hire undocumented workers.
I probably didn't say that very well.
You said it very well.
What I see being said here though is a disregard to what the legislation is also proposing. The fact that they will be implementing mandatory e-verify or an even more secure method of employment verification. Most illegals won't be coming here if they can't work. The only ones that would do that would be those seeking asylum or those that are nothing other then criminals. The rest would be coming in the front door.
From what I've read about the proposal they are trying to cover all of the holes that have allowed the flow of illegals to come and work here. While keeping the door open for more legal immigration.

“Peace”

Level 8

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#131 Feb 5, 2013
Fed Up wrote:
IF THIS DOESN'T SCARE THE HELL OUT OF YOU NOTHING WILL!!
Senate Plan Would Let Napolitano Trigger Citizenship for Illegals
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/...
I guess nothing will. It isn't like any of those getting legal visa would be able to get citizenship the next day, month, year or even years.
As long as the legislation has the locks to keep the backdoor from being used that's what is needed most and what we all want with any immigration legislation for the long run.

“Peace”

Level 8

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#132 Feb 5, 2013
The Sin City Cat wrote:
<quoted text>Your link has been reported as an attack site. Rather interesting as I have been there before with no problems detected. Someone doesn't want this getting out.
I went to that site twice and saw nothing that said it was an attack site. So I don't understand what you are saying happened to you when you went to the site.

“Peace”

Level 8

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#133 Feb 5, 2013
NON COMPLACENT TWINK wrote:
<quoted text>
Dear Gussie, where have I heard that before?
http://anebbandflow.blogspot.com/2013/01/the-...
How are you WA? I'm only here for a minute and wanted to say hello and you know I have to disagree with you on the "Last Reform".
LOl Hi Twink....I'd have to look at what I said again about immigration if you agreed with me. But I will say I love the conversation with you even if we don't agree on this.
I hope your garden grows to have giants and your livestock thrive and reproduce by the dozens each. I do miss you when your gone so come on back and we will discuss the last reform.
:)

“Peace”

Level 8

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#134 Feb 5, 2013
NON COMPLACENT TWINK wrote:
<quoted text>
This was this past month and about 80 miles from us. The positions open were not for blue collar workers but look at this response:
http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/story/20589939/no...
I'm sure that we have a lot of areas that are in need of many more jobs. Were these jobs all nursing, cpr and blue collar jobs or did they consist of moping and cleaning or gardening type of work? Just wondered because hospital jobs aren't ones that most illegals would be getting into. So I don't know how they would have any impack on them.

“Peace”

Level 8

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#135 Feb 5, 2013
Jaxxon wrote:
2) Applicants must notify their respective employers that they have applied to remain and work in the U.S.A. legally. Employers of illegals are granted a one time only pass on penalty or fine for employing illegal workers and will cooperate with government officials in any electronic request on their employee(s).
Applicants will be entered into a separate E-Verify database which is mandatory for all employers to use to authenticate worker status.
Applicants will undergo fingerprinting identification which data will be entered into a National crime database for access by law enforcement.
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/immigration/T...
I like section two of this proposal because it is both simple and provides a way to get both employers and undocumented workers into the system.
Employers get one chance to get with the program without facing fines or penalties.
It establishes a unique data base that employers would be required to use to verify that a foreign national does in fact have the right to work legally here in the United States and requires the employer to provide any information that may be required to verify that all of that businesses employees are in the system and qualified to work.
I also like the idea that to qualify for the program the employee is required to notify their employer that they have applied for guest worker status.
Going forward there would be no excuse for an employer to hire an undocumented worker and there should be some teeth in the punishment they will face of they do.
Seems pretty straightforward and it puts the right kind of pressure where it belongs, on the employer.
I agree with everything here but I would change one thing. I don't like the idea of having two data bases when one would work the same way and be less burdomsome for the employer. Plus less chance that one database would be missed if both needed to be checked. All pertinent information could be placed in that one database.
I know I'm a PIA.

“Peace”

Level 8

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#136 Feb 5, 2013
NTRPRNR1 wrote:
<quoted text>What this doesn't uncover is those illegal workers who are using fraudulent social security numbers and who don't sign up. What that requires is increased staff to review and send out I-9 conflict and no match letters. It would also require the IRS to cease processing tax returns that provide a "no match" social security number with a legitimate ITIN number. In effect, the IRS has been endorsing the fraudulent use of others' stolen identity by rewarding an illegal worker with a tax refund if due when they file returns.
The tax returns of citizen filers cost us $.75/ea. to process. These "no match" tax returns are forwarded on to a separate department and cost taxpayers about $175.00/ea. to process.
After the application period has expired, we should expect a retroactive review of all employees at a company, not just those who have stepped forward and applied. We need to identify the numbers of those who are still trying to exploit the system with fraudulent identification.
What do you think?
You know Ntr if I remember correctly you had said some time back that you got those figures of the costs of processing itin/ssn mismatch from a friend that worked for IRS. I'm starting to wonder where they got those figures as so far I'm not finding any of the costs for processing any IRS returns at all.
So would you please show some links to that information. If it came from your friend I'm sure she can give you a link.
Thanks

“Peace”

Level 8

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#137 Feb 5, 2013
Jaxxon wrote:
<quoted text>
I think it's a good idea, once the program is up and running, to review each and every employee to determine their status.
Citizens wouldn't be effected at all, qualified guest workers would be identified and that would only leave the undocumented/illegal workers.
There shouldn't be any conflict with existing law if the IRS simply said they could not process these "no match" tax returns either.
One thing I like about parts of this proposal is that it would force the undocumented workers out into the open. Those that qualify for guest worker status could stay as long as they abide by the rules and those that don't want to abide by the rules can just dam* well go home.
No more living in the shadows while our government pretends it doesn't see the problem.
"There shouldn't be any conflict with existing law if the IRS simply said they could not process these "no match" tax returns either."
LOL They're not going to do that Jax. They want all the money coming in they can get.
But I will tell you that IRS has declined to give any earned income tax credit to those that file with the itin/ssn mismatch number.

“Peace”

Level 8

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#138 Feb 5, 2013
Jaxxon wrote:
3) Along the way, employers can access the applicant E-Verify database to check an employee's status: Application pending, Application rejected, Application Approved. At any point in the process that an employer discovers an employee has been rejected for acceptance, the employee must be promptly terminated. Failure to do so will subject that employer to fines and penalties and will prohibit the employer from using additional temporary guest workers going forward.
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/immigration/T...
It looks like part three of the proposal is pretty simple.
Employers can access the data base to check the status of applicants and must terminate any employee that is rejected for guest worker status.
If the employer does not comply they will banned from hiring any guest workers in the future.
The only thing I would add to this is that it might be a good idea that the employer would receive notification if an applicant they employ is rejected.
This is only covering the application process what about those on visas? Those visas can expire without the employer knowing it had. Unless the Government has an automatic letter/e-mail that goes to the employer to notify them of the new lack of status to work for their employer. Ex amount of days should be given to the employee to see if they can rectify the problem. If not then they would have to be fired and they should be picked up and taken out of the Country.

“Peace”

Level 8

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#139 Feb 5, 2013
spud wrote:
I just don't think a government that can't secure its border, can't pass a budget or anything else for that matter and can't run any program without massive fraud and debt, will be able to administer this program. All the Democrats and the neocons are against implementing the Everify system. Democrats are insisting on a pathway to citizenship. And this plan will only serve to reinforce the notion that our laws are meaningless. Why should anyone think that any new law will be enforced? And last but not least, how do we square this with those who have been waiting patiently to come here legally?
Have you even read the plan that the Government has set forth? Because if you have then you have forgotten a lot of the things they want passed. Things that you want passed but just said they would never do. But lo and behold they are putting it into their legislation.
By the way "can't" never can, never has and never will. Those are losers words which I'm sure your not.

“Peace”

Level 8

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#140 Feb 5, 2013
Jaxxon wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's the thing for me.
It looks like we are headed for immigration reform that would amount to a mass amnesty and a path to citizenship.
I'm opposed to that and I am looking for alternatives we might be able to get our representatives to consider that would satisfy the desire for a resolution, avoid a path to citizenship and do something to reduce the flow of future illegal immigration.
There are elements of this plan that I think might accomplish those goals and I would prefer that to what is currently gathering momentum in Washington.
"NO" is not an answer anymore.
The question is, would you prefer documented guest workers, or a general amnesty with a path to citizenship and very little to stop future illegal immigration?
Well I have to ask Jax. Why do you oppose an adjustment of status of all illegals here now and a path, to a path to citizenship?

“Peace”

Level 8

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#141 Feb 5, 2013
Rico from East Los II wrote:
Modifying the 14th amendment from jus soli to jus sanguinis by requiring one parent to be a lawfully present in the USA should be a hot topic in this debate.
Hey Rico I'm not so sure that modifying the 14th amendment to read differently can be done through immigration reform. That imo would have to go through a Constitutional amendment.

“Rico's Are Everywhere”

Level 5

Since: Dec 09

Gangland, North America

#142 Feb 5, 2013
_White American_ wrote:
<quoted text>Hey Rico I'm not so sure that modifying the 14th amendment to read differently can be done through immigration reform. That imo would have to go through a Constitutional amendment.
Yes... alongside IR.

And if the Constitutional amendment doesn't work out.... then some other form or degaussing the magnet effects.

I cannot say I'll be happy with any kind of IR without getting rid of the many magnet effects that draw illegals to the USA. I used birthright citizenship as one example but now is the best time for the right to tell the left that if you want amnesty & citizenship then we'll trade that for a change in birthright citizenship, welfare reform and other pet peeves that the right likes to talk about.

I've never considered IR to be a one sided affair where amnesty & citizenship was the only issue.

“Peace”

Level 8

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#143 Feb 5, 2013
Rico from East Los II wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes... alongside IR.
And if the Constitutional amendment doesn't work out.... then some other form or degaussing the magnet effects.
I cannot say I'll be happy with any kind of IR without getting rid of the many magnet effects that draw illegals to the USA. I used birthright citizenship as one example but now is the best time for the right to tell the left that if you want amnesty & citizenship then we'll trade that for a change in birthright citizenship, welfare reform and other pet peeves that the right likes to talk about.
I've never considered IR to be a one sided affair where amnesty & citizenship was the only issue.
I also don't see IR as a one sided affair nor do I think it should be. We have to keep illegals out, yet allow immigration to continue. What do you personally think about what the Gov has come up with as a starting point for reform? What do you think about Ntr's plan? I'd love to get your input on this.

“Life is short. Enjoy the ride”

Level 8

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#144 Feb 5, 2013
_White American_ wrote:
<quoted text>You know Ntr if I remember correctly you had said some time back that you got those figures of the costs of processing itin/ssn mismatch from a friend that worked for IRS. I'm starting to wonder where they got those figures as so far I'm not finding any of the costs for processing any IRS returns at all.
So would you please show some links to that information. If it came from your friend I'm sure she can give you a link.
Thanks
I got the information from a government report. I'm not a link keeper. Feel free to disregard what I posted if you like for lack of a link. But, when I originally posted, I provided the link to a government report. I didn't hear it from a friend who heard it from a friend. The data went back to either 2006 or 2007. Otherwise, I will google it when I have time and see if the report is still online.

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