Alternative Immigration Reform Plan - Weigh In

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Snake Eyes

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#103
Feb 3, 2013
 
X -Man- wrote:
<quoted text>
And how would you realistically "improve" it? Or is "no" your intellectual limit on the issue?
A public announcement is circulated that the United States Government is affording a one time only opportunity to apply for legal temporary guest worker positions in exchange for assault rifles. One application per weapon.

“THE RUMBLE WILL BECOME A ROAR”

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#104
Feb 3, 2013
 
_White American_ wrote:
<quoted text>
"I really see this as the last reform that will ever have to be done"
Dear Gussie, where have I heard that before?

http://anebbandflow.blogspot.com/2013/01/the-...

How are you WA? I'm only here for a minute and wanted to say hello and you know I have to disagree with you on the "Last Reform".

“THE RUMBLE WILL BECOME A ROAR”

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#105
Feb 3, 2013
 

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_White American_ wrote:
<quoted text>I didn't read all of this but as of November 2012 there were 3.7 million job openings.
The number of quits was up from 1.8 around 2009 to 2.1 million in Nov.
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/jolts.pdf
This was this past month and about 80 miles from us. The positions open were not for blue collar workers but look at this response:

http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/story/20589939/no...

“THE RUMBLE WILL BECOME A ROAR”

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#106
Feb 4, 2013
 

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The Sin City Cat wrote:
<quoted text>Google Breitbart.com . Its also listed as an attack site there. They don't want people going there to get info.
I googled it and then tried the link provided and was able to pull up the article with no problem.

“THE RUMBLE WILL BECOME A ROAR”

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#107
Feb 4, 2013
 

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The Sin City Cat wrote:
<quoted text>The government states there are only 11 million illegals in this country. We know that number is B.S. What happens if they declare some sort of legalization and we reach that 11 million number and there are still more illegals applying. Are they just going to keep doing more extensions over and over like they did with the 1986 amnesty? Or will they say we have reached the quota the rest of you are out of luck. I doubt it!
The government has used that bogus "11 million" number for years. I would estimate that there are somewhere between 20 and 30 million illegals here, of course that is just my guesstimate.
I do not believe they will cut the number off at 11 million. The temporary legalization would be to give time to weed out those who would not qualify for a more permanent status, those who have committed crimes, those using stolen identities, those drawing government benefits they are not entitled to, those who have not paid taxes, etc.
One of the problems I see here is that no government agency has ever worked that efficiently or that fast.
There will however, be a great many who will not bother to apply, drug dealers, pimps and prostitutes, those who manufacture and sell fake or stolen Id's, those fine farmers who are growing pot in our national forests, human smugglers, etc. because it would not be to their advantage to take a chance on being found out and for some an amnesty would mean an end to their business. There will also be those who will not apply because of fear that it is a scam to catch and deport them.
I will have to continue this conversation tomorrow because it is 3:15 am here and I have to be up at 6:30 am. Have a good night.

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#108
Feb 4, 2013
 
2) Applicants must notify their respective employers that they have applied to remain and work in the U.S.A. legally. Employers of illegals are granted a one time only pass on penalty or fine for employing illegal workers and will cooperate with government officials in any electronic request on their employee(s).

Applicants will be entered into a separate E-Verify database which is mandatory for all employers to use to authenticate worker status.
Applicants will undergo fingerprinting identification which data will be entered into a National crime database for access by law enforcement.

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/immigration/T...

I like section two of this proposal because it is both simple and provides a way to get both employers and undocumented workers into the system.

Employers get one chance to get with the program without facing fines or penalties.

It establishes a unique data base that employers would be required to use to verify that a foreign national does in fact have the right to work legally here in the United States and requires the employer to provide any information that may be required to verify that all of that businesses employees are in the system and qualified to work.

I also like the idea that to qualify for the program the employee is required to notify their employer that they have applied for guest worker status.

Going forward there would be no excuse for an employer to hire an undocumented worker and there should be some teeth in the punishment they will face of they do.

Seems pretty straightforward and it puts the right kind of pressure where it belongs, on the employer.

“Life is short. Enjoy the ride”

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#109
Feb 4, 2013
 

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Jaxxon wrote:
2) Applicants must notify their respective employers that they have applied to remain and work in the U.S.A. legally. Employers of illegals are granted a one time only pass on penalty or fine for employing illegal workers and will cooperate with government officials in any electronic request on their employee(s).
Applicants will be entered into a separate E-Verify database which is mandatory for all employers to use to authenticate worker status.
Applicants will undergo fingerprinting identification which data will be entered into a National crime database for access by law enforcement.
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/immigration/T...
I like section two of this proposal because it is both simple and provides a way to get both employers and undocumented workers into the system.
Employers get one chance to get with the program without facing fines or penalties.
It establishes a unique data base that employers would be required to use to verify that a foreign national does in fact have the right to work legally here in the United States and requires the employer to provide any information that may be required to verify that all of that businesses employees are in the system and qualified to work.
I also like the idea that to qualify for the program the employee is required to notify their employer that they have applied for guest worker status.
Going forward there would be no excuse for an employer to hire an undocumented worker and there should be some teeth in the punishment they will face of they do.
Seems pretty straightforward and it puts the right kind of pressure where it belongs, on the employer.
What this doesn't uncover is those illegal workers who are using fraudulent social security numbers and who don't sign up. What that requires is increased staff to review and send out I-9 conflict and no match letters. It would also require the IRS to cease processing tax returns that provide a "no match" social security number with a legitimate ITIN number. In effect, the IRS has been endorsing the fraudulent use of others' stolen identity by rewarding an illegal worker with a tax refund if due when they file returns.

The tax returns of citizen filers cost us $.75/ea. to process. These "no match" tax returns are forwarded on to a separate department and cost taxpayers about $175.00/ea. to process.

After the application period has expired, we should expect a retroactive review of all employees at a company, not just those who have stepped forward and applied. We need to identify the numbers of those who are still trying to exploit the system with fraudulent identification.

What do you think?

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#110
Feb 4, 2013
 

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NTRPRNR1 wrote:
<quoted text>What this doesn't uncover is those illegal workers who are using fraudulent social security numbers and who don't sign up. What that requires is increased staff to review and send out I-9 conflict and no match letters. It would also require the IRS to cease processing tax returns that provide a "no match" social security number with a legitimate ITIN number. In effect, the IRS has been endorsing the fraudulent use of others' stolen identity by rewarding an illegal worker with a tax refund if due when they file returns.
The tax returns of citizen filers cost us $.75/ea. to process. These "no match" tax returns are forwarded on to a separate department and cost taxpayers about $175.00/ea. to process.
After the application period has expired, we should expect a retroactive review of all employees at a company, not just those who have stepped forward and applied. We need to identify the numbers of those who are still trying to exploit the system with fraudulent identification.
What do you think?
I think it's a good idea, once the program is up and running, to review each and every employee to determine their status.

Citizens wouldn't be effected at all, qualified guest workers would be identified and that would only leave the undocumented/illegal workers.

There shouldn't be any conflict with existing law if the IRS simply said they could not process these "no match" tax returns either.

One thing I like about parts of this proposal is that it would force the undocumented workers out into the open. Those that qualify for guest worker status could stay as long as they abide by the rules and those that don't want to abide by the rules can just dam* well go home.

No more living in the shadows while our government pretends it doesn't see the problem.
dwg

Everett, MA

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#113
Feb 4, 2013
 
The Sin City Cat wrote:
<quoted text>This will be just like 1986. No enforcement of any laws passed. No securing of the border. I don't care what computer technology exists today. Its worthless unless someone uses it. Wont happen. The idea is to create here what exists in many other countries. The ruling elite and the all the rest of the people not of the ruling class. The rich and poor. No middle class what so ever.
2002 USA biometric VISAS were more security and SOCIAL SECURITY CARD CAN GET THE SAME DIRECTION.

IT will PREVENT THE SAME PROBLEM WE HAVE TODAY AFTER 27 years ( last amnesty 1986 till 2013) of inaction by GOVERNAMENTAL INSTITUTION AND VOTERS.

THANKS
DWG
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#114
Feb 4, 2013
 

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The Sin City Cat wrote:
<quoted text>Google Breitbart.com . Its also listed as an attack site there. They don't want people going there to get info.
Seems that it was originally being propagated by an android app somewhere on the southern coast of California and the Chicago area as far as I can see.

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#115
Feb 4, 2013
 
positronium wrote:
<quoted text>Seems that it was originally being propagated by an android app somewhere on the southern coast of California and the Chicago area as far as I can see.
I just found it rather odd that there are other sites,in addition to this one, that don't paint Obama in a favorable light being listed as attack sites also.

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#116
Feb 5, 2013
 
positronium wrote:
Many topix pages are reporting potential malware attacks.
I have been receiving "Malware" alerts from my security program just before it disconnects me from Topix.

It's happening frequently.

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#117
Feb 5, 2013
 
The Sin City Cat wrote:
<quoted text>I just found it rather odd that there are other sites,in addition to this one, that don't paint Obama in a favorable light being listed as attack sites also.
I just went to Breitbart and selected a story at random.

When I clicked the link an aggressive program redirected me to a "survey" and would not allow me to view the page I had originally selected no matter what I tried.

I had to close the page and even then I had to click a link that said "yes I want to leave this page".

I made an adjustment to my security settings and returned to breitbart, selected the same article and this time I was allowed to view the page I had selected.

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#118
Feb 5, 2013
 
3) Along the way, employers can access the applicant E-Verify database to check an employee's status: Application pending, Application rejected, Application Approved. At any point in the process that an employer discovers an employee has been rejected for acceptance, the employee must be promptly terminated. Failure to do so will subject that employer to fines and penalties and will prohibit the employer from using additional temporary guest workers going forward.

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/immigration/T...

It looks like part three of the proposal is pretty simple.

Employers can access the data base to check the status of applicants and must terminate any employee that is rejected for guest worker status.

If the employer does not comply they will banned from hiring any guest workers in the future.

The only thing I would add to this is that it might be a good idea that the employer would receive notification if an applicant they employ is rejected.

“Peace”

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#119
Feb 5, 2013
 

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The Sin City Cat wrote:
<quoted text>So, if it turns out there 20-30 million illegals here, you are fine with legalizing all of them? You do realize they will be able to tap into any entitlement program that they haven't already tapped into? This includes social security,welfare,food stamps and Obamacare. I'm assuming you have reached retirement age and are receiving social security. Are you willing to take a cut in your social security check in order to legalize them? Many of the illegals are of retirement age. They WILL be able to collect social upon legalization. Its broke now. As to the rest of the entitlements,how do you propose to pay for these additional costs. Borrow more money from China? They already want payment. Sources are already saying the U.S. is looking to give them federal land in exchange for forgiveness of debt. They could use the land as they see fit. Including bringing millions of Chinese here to live and work. More people vying for the few jobs there are. Watch those wages take a tumble. You would be lucky to see a job that pays what is now minimum wage.
I don't believe that the number of illegals currently here is anywhere near the number you are speaking about. Which is one reason that things need to be done now before more come in when our economy gets better. It will get better as it has already started to do so.
But economists are pointing to illegals not doing the amount of damage to America as they have been being blamed for in the past. You know it does show more accurate figures when one uses all that has an effect....good or bad.
It won't be of much help for Americans wanting jobs if all illegals were gone tomorrow. More then likely we would just end up losing more businesses, which is what has happened with all the deportations of the past few years.
"Report: Mass Deportation Policies Harm State Economies | From anti-immigrant state laws in Alabama and Arizona designed to force immigrants out of the state and Gov. Rick Perry’s (R-TX) proposal to deport every single undocumented immigrant, Republicans — including Mitt Romney — are supporting harmful mass deportation policies. According to a new report from the Center for American Progress, deporting millions of undocumented immigrants would hurt businesses because there would be fewer consumers. But granting legal status to immigrants who entered the U.S. illegally would be an economic boon to seven states included in the report. For example, legalizing every undocumented immigrant in Florida would generate enough in tax revenue to close the state’s 2013 budget deficit, but if Colorado deported every undocumented immigrant, its gross state product would shrink by $7.4 billion."
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/08/30/7...
We have a much more diverse job market then we have ever had in the past. Many Americans work and live in other Countries. Their choose. We have a new generation that isn't interested in full time jobs.
"This perception of the 50-million member Millennial generation is typified by a quote in The Washington Post from Jared Rogalia, 25, a Hertz rental car manager-trainee in Alexandria, Va. He describes his generation as “spoiled and lazy.”

“We’re free-spirited,” Rogalia said.“[T]hey’d rather be poorer and have free time and have free time than have a lot of money.”

Rogalia is not along in his observations about the Millennials being spoiled.

Business owners interviewed by the Post slammed their Millennial employees as not wanting to put in needed time and energy to succeed."
http://redalertpolitics.com/2012/04/21/pew-mi...

It's my understanding that the current legislation will stop the new visa holders from receiving any Gov social services as long as they hold that visa status.
spud

Saylorsburg, PA

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#120
Feb 5, 2013
 

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I just don't think a government that can't secure its border, can't pass a budget or anything else for that matter and can't run any program without massive fraud and debt, will be able to administer this program. All the Democrats and the neocons are against implementing the Everify system. Democrats are insisting on a pathway to citizenship. And this plan will only serve to reinforce the notion that our laws are meaningless. Why should anyone think that any new law will be enforced? And last but not least, how do we square this with those who have been waiting patiently to come here legally?

“Peace”

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#121
Feb 5, 2013
 

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The Sin City Cat wrote:
<quoted text>So, if it turns out there 20-30 million illegals here, you are fine with legalizing all of them? You do realize they will be able to tap into any entitlement program that they haven't already tapped into? This includes social security,welfare,food stamps and Obamacare. I'm assuming you have reached retirement age and are receiving social security. Are you willing to take a cut in your social security check in order to legalize them? Many of the illegals are of retirement age. They WILL be able to collect social upon legalization. Its broke now. As to the rest of the entitlements,how do you propose to pay for these additional costs. Borrow more money from China? They already want payment. Sources are already saying the U.S. is looking to give them federal land in exchange for forgiveness of debt. They could use the land as they see fit. Including bringing millions of Chinese here to live and work. More people vying for the few jobs there are. Watch those wages take a tumble. You would be lucky to see a job that pays what is now minimum wage.
I don't believe that the number of illegals currently here is anywhere near the number you are speaking about. Which is one reason that things need to be done now before more come in when our economy gets better. It will get better as it has already started to do so.
But economists are pointing to illegals not doing the amount of damage to America as they have been being blamed for in the past. You know it does show more accurate figures when one uses all that has an effect....good or bad.
It won't be of much help for Americans wanting jobs if all illegals were gone tomorrow. More then likely we would just end up losing more businesses, which is what has happened with all the deportations of the past few years.
"Report: Mass Deportation Policies Harm State Economies | From anti-immigrant state laws in Alabama and Arizona designed to force immigrants out of the state and Gov. Rick Perry’s (R-TX) proposal to deport every single undocumented immigrant, Republicans — including Mitt Romney — are supporting harmful mass deportation policies. According to a new report from the Center for American Progress, deporting millions of undocumented immigrants would hurt businesses because there would be fewer consumers. But granting legal status to immigrants who entered the U.S. illegally would be an economic boon to seven states included in the report. For example, legalizing every undocumented immigrant in Florida would generate enough in tax revenue to close the state’s 2013 budget deficit, but if Colorado deported every undocumented immigrant, its gross state product would shrink by $7.4 billion."
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/08/30/7...
We have a much more diverse job market then we have ever had in the past. Many Americans work and live in other Countries. Their choose. We have a new generation that isn't interested in full time jobs.
"This perception of the 50-million member Millennial generation is typified by a quote in The Washington Post from Jared Rogalia, 25, a Hertz rental car manager-trainee in Alexandria, Va. He describes his generation as “spoiled and lazy.”

“We’re free-spirited,” Rogalia said.“[T]hey’d rather be poorer and have free time and have free time than have a lot of money.”

Rogalia is not along in his observations about the Millennials being spoiled.

Business owners interviewed by the Post slammed their Millennial employees as not wanting to put in needed time and energy to succeed."
http://redalertpolitics.com/2012/04/21/pew-mi...

It's my understanding that the current legislation is stopping any gov social services for the new visa holders. They won't be allowed to receive as long as they are in that visa category.

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#122
Feb 5, 2013
 
spud wrote:
I just don't think a government that can't secure its border, can't pass a budget or anything else for that matter and can't run any program without massive fraud and debt, will be able to administer this program. All the Democrats and the neocons are against implementing the Everify system. Democrats are insisting on a pathway to citizenship. And this plan will only serve to reinforce the notion that our laws are meaningless. Why should anyone think that any new law will be enforced? And last but not least, how do we square this with those who have been waiting patiently to come here legally?
Here's the thing for me.

It looks like we are headed for immigration reform that would amount to a mass amnesty and a path to citizenship.

I'm opposed to that and I am looking for alternatives we might be able to get our representatives to consider that would satisfy the desire for a resolution, avoid a path to citizenship and do something to reduce the flow of future illegal immigration.

There are elements of this plan that I think might accomplish those goals and I would prefer that to what is currently gathering momentum in Washington.

"NO" is not an answer anymore.

The question is, would you prefer documented guest workers, or a general amnesty with a path to citizenship and very little to stop future illegal immigration?

“Peace”

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#123
Feb 5, 2013
 

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NTRPRNR1 wrote:
<quoted text>We already have a TGW program for agricultural workers, and there isn't a demand for them. Not enough farmers looking for them. Wonder why? There are rules in place that employers must meet - standards of living facilities and health and safety protections. They prefer to hire an illegal and send him and his friends to sleep in the barn or a dilapidated falling down house where they sack out on the floor and pee in buckets. It's so much cheaper. How cheap can we make it? How low can they go? When it's cash and carry, they can pay almost nothing.$3.00/hr. is still $9.00/hr. when it crosses the border and no taxes are withheld, no income reported.
Twink can tell you about this all day long. She knows it like the back of her hand.
I know about what is currently available. Which I'm sure would be something that the large corp farms could afford. But not so for the smaller farmers. They are fighting for their economic lives against the big corps. They do need to have a simpler and more affordable visa program for the agricultural workers. That way they can be legal with taxes taken out and paid to the Gov.

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#124
Feb 5, 2013
 

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Jaxxon wrote:
<quoted text>
I have been receiving "Malware" alerts from my security program just before it disconnects me from Topix.
It's happening frequently.
As they always say, once you go Mac... you'll never go back.

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