Alternative Immigration Reform Plan ...

“"One for the claws"”

Level 6

Since: Jul 10

Sin City,U.S.A.

#83 Feb 3, 2013
_White American_ wrote:
<quoted text>Like you I don't know exactly how many illegals are in this Country. But to me the reasons the past amnesty didn't work is because they left out many illegals already here because of no good reason. They simply picked out arbitrary numbers that if they didn't fit into then they were out. That left a backlash coming from the immigration groups that faught against the enforcement of any the laws in place.
For this one to work it will need to cover all the illegals and then have the enforcement put in place to stop any others from coming here by using mandatory e-verify. No reason an employer doesn't know his/her employee isn't legal to work. The fines will be placed and the business will stop hiring illegals. Withoug encentive to work most illegals won't even try to come without documentation.
This can work but it will have to appease both sides of this issue while not giving either side all they want.
But if it works...that's what we all want.
Add this to following preceding post. 7 million illegals were given amnesty since 1986. The reason there are still more illegals, is there has been no enforcement of laws. 900,000 a year were simply allowed to enter this country illegally. No other country on this planet has allowed 18 - 37 million people to do this.

“Try Reuters.”

Level 8

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#84 Feb 3, 2013
_White American_ wrote:
<quoted text>Why can't that guest worker program be set up for the agricultural field only? That labor force has been coming in and out of this Country for generations.
We already have a TGW program for agricultural workers, and there isn't a demand for them. Not enough farmers looking for them. Wonder why? There are rules in place that employers must meet - standards of living facilities and health and safety protections. They prefer to hire an illegal and send him and his friends to sleep in the barn or a dilapidated falling down house where they sack out on the floor and pee in buckets. It's so much cheaper. How cheap can we make it? How low can they go? When it's cash and carry, they can pay almost nothing.$3.00/hr. is still $9.00/hr. when it crosses the border and no taxes are withheld, no income reported.

Twink can tell you about this all day long. She knows it like the back of her hand.

“Try Reuters.”

Level 8

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#85 Feb 3, 2013
Jaxxon wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay, I think I get what you're saying, but the ideas are starting to fly around pretty fast here and I probably wasn't making myself clear.
I was mostly talking about a temporary guest worker program in the context of the proposal we are discussing as an alternative to a general amnesty and path to citizenship which is what appears to be gathering momentum in Washington.
Does that make sense?
Yes, after the fact. I was addressing the fact that both proposals from the Committee and the Administration which are under consideration not only call for a broad blanket amnesty WITH pathway to citizenship, they also call for an expanded TGW program as part of the package. VERY bad deal as far as I'm concerned - but only if you're an unemployed American from the lower wage sectors or a middle-class taxpayer;-)

Back on track!

We only need to document those already present as being converted to TGW only as far as I'm concerned. That should be the BEST deal they get. After that, we can discuss the Dream Act, and I'll get behind that.

“Try Reuters.”

Level 8

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#86 Feb 3, 2013
If you're just finding this thread, please go back to the first page and read the first four posts.

INTRODUCTION
PART I
PART II
and the following post which concludes. That is the topic we're discussing. How to make it better, what you don't like, or what you agree with - if anything.

Thanks!
dwg

Everett, MA

#87 Feb 3, 2013
The Sin City Cat wrote:
<quoted text>You know as well as I,once the 11 million number has been reached they'll just keep extending this amnesty just like 1986. Anybody who doesn't believe it will happen is just fooling themselves. There isn't going to be any enforcement of the laws,just like 1986. The illegals will keep coming to satisfy the need of the corrupt for cheap labor. And on top of that the millions legalized will want to bring in 40-50 million of their closest family and friends. And of course the Democrats will be all for that as it assures them of even more voters. And then they'll say in 10 more years we need to legalize another 10-20 million illegals. They don't care as long as they remain in power no matter how screwed up this country will be.
What about American computer to control american companies to not hiring undocumented in the future.

I think we need some straight line in this conversation because you can be lost and drive down the cliff.

Thanks
DISPATCHER WALTER GARBE

“I'm a searchlight soul”

Level 8

Since: Oct 07

they say

#88 Feb 3, 2013
Jaxxon wrote:
<quoted text>
"the priority IMO is cracking down on companies and businesses who hire undocumented workers."
Hey Free. Good to see you over here.
I agree with that statement and have been saying the focus should be on employers for a very long time now. They are the ones that profit from undocumented labor and those jobs are one of the biggest magnets that continue to attract illegal immigrants.
I guess the question I have is what is the best way to go about that considering the current weaknesses in the law.
Documenting those workers and establishing a data base for guest workers that all employers would be required to use to verify the workers qualifications seems like a possible answer to me at least looking forward.
An employer currently must "knowingly" hire an illegal worker to get in any real trouble. by providing a pool of documented workers and a system for employers to verify eligibility there is no longer any plausible deniability.
I agree, I like this idea very much. If you're not on the list, you can't be hired.

“"One for the claws"”

Level 6

Since: Jul 10

Sin City,U.S.A.

#89 Feb 3, 2013
dwg wrote:
<quoted text>
What about American computer to control american companies to not hiring undocumented in the future.
I think we need some straight line in this conversation because you can be lost and drive down the cliff.
Thanks
DISPATCHER WALTER GARBE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =1Syga1MSTokXX
This will be just like 1986. No enforcement of any laws passed. No securing of the border. I don't care what computer technology exists today. Its worthless unless someone uses it. Wont happen. The idea is to create here what exists in many other countries. The ruling elite and the all the rest of the people not of the ruling class. The rich and poor. No middle class what so ever.

“I'm a searchlight soul”

Level 8

Since: Oct 07

they say

#90 Feb 3, 2013
NTRPRNR1 wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, they would know they can no longer work in America or be supported by welfare. I'm not worried about the singles. They came here alone, and they can make their ways back home. But, Freebie, the program calls for a stipend/resettlement fee for women with children, so they aren't going home desperate. They have to get grounded and start anew. We're not in a hurry to deport, but they can no longer find work under the mandatory E-Verify program. They can go out and immediately reapply to enter and wait their turns. There would be no penalty for anybody who voluntarily repatriates themselves.
The reason for this is to show good faith to American workers who were displaced by illegal labor who replaced them. Otherwise, NOTHING that is currently proposed does one thing to help those men (primarily men). They've been benched or working for sometimes as much as half of what they once earned. I refuse to pretend they don't exist, and it's criminal that the Administration has completely ignored them in this blanket amnesty proposal. JMO As you know, I entered the fray because of what I saw happen to my brother. I'd like us to make it up to some of those American men who, like him, lost all.
Forgive me my ignorance, but are employers able to hold the wages low because of illegal workers having a lower skill set, or because they know they will accept a lower wage since they are limited in what jobs are available to them? Or something else - please enlighten me.

“Try Reuters.”

Level 8

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#91 Feb 3, 2013
Freespirit8 wrote:
<quoted text>
Forgive me my ignorance, but are employers able to hold the wages low because of illegal workers having a lower skill set, or because they know they will accept a lower wage since they are limited in what jobs are available to them? Or something else - please enlighten me.
Employers can pay very low wages because there is a line of men/women who need a job - a "glut". Under the laws of supply and demand, wages don't have to increase as long as people are standing on line for the job. Now, we already have a glut of available workers (unemployed) in the low wage sectors, and there are no jobs open for those men and women. Of the 14 million unemployed Americans who are ACTIVELY seeking a job, almost half of them are in the lowest to income sectors. That's 7 million. Interestingly enough (at least, I think so), we have 7 million illegal workers on the books. The majority of those workers are in the very same wage categories and skill levels as half our unemployed who are wanting a job.

Okay, Freebie. Say, we amnesty everybody just as TGW and let them stay on the job AND (with the proposals now being considered by Congress and the Administration) we institute an expanded TGW program, WHO do you think these TGWs will be and what kind of jobs do you think the lion's share of them will do?

Now, we already had a glut and we increase the glut, and even as new jobs open, the line is still out the door. Wages stay in the toilet. I know we both know somebody who understood that very well and was significant in helping put this proposal together.

The biggest sticking point is "what do we do about the old folks who are here and being supported but who are illegal?" Can a humane people throw the to the wolves? No. So, we will have to make concessions, and nothing I proposed is set in stone. BUT, it's a better beginning and starting point than either of the other proposals IF you are an American or legal immigrant, and IF you think Americans should come first in America.

So, feel free to make suggestions and recommendations. I will take all of them and see if I can make changes to make it better.

“I'm a searchlight soul”

Level 8

Since: Oct 07

they say

#92 Feb 3, 2013
_White American_ wrote:
<quoted text>It is wonderful to be able to discuss this stuff. lol
By the way Jax unless you noticed I don't have anything against those that are against illegal immigration. The fact is I want illegal immigration stopped. But I also know that it won't happen unless we do this reform right.
We have to allow those here now to adjust status. Because that's something that will be a sticking point with the immigration groups if it isn't. Then it would be a big fight to get the enforcement in place as it has to be done in order to stop continued immigration. They won't want the enforcement when many of their people will be forced out because they didn't get their papers.
I really see this as the last reform that will ever have to be done if it is well thought out and done properly. Each side will have to get their major issue in order to get this passed. I believe that the immigration groups want all here to be able to adjust status. I believe that the other side wants enough enforcement in place to stop employment of illegals. Each side will also have to give on the smaller issues as well. So end result will most likely be that no one is really happen but everyone can live with the legislation and no more illegal influx. Immigrants will no longer have incentive to come here undocumented.
So you think that winning the cooperation of those advocacy groups might make the documentation process run more smoothly and successfully? Are they open to the idea of adjusted status with no promise of assistance or entitlements while working toward permanent resident status? Seems to me there has to be a good faith agreement on both sides before we grant any kind of amnesty.
dwg

Everett, MA

#93 Feb 3, 2013
The Sin City Cat wrote:
<quoted text>This will be just like 1986. No enforcement of any laws passed. No securing of the border. I don't care what computer technology exists today. Its worthless unless someone uses it. Wont happen. The idea is to create here what exists in many other countries. The ruling elite and the all the rest of the people not of the ruling class. The rich and poor. No middle class what so ever.
Computer work for sure , take a look at USA VISAS after 2002, the biometric system works well against fraud, we.need better for companies hiring somebody after amnesty.

Thanks
DWG

“Reduce immigration levels”

Level 5

Since: Dec 06

Kings Mountain, NC

#94 Feb 3, 2013
IF THIS DOESN'T SCARE THE HELL OUT OF YOU NOTHING WILL!!
Senate Plan Would Let Napolitano Trigger Citizenship for Illegals
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/...
dwg

Everett, MA

#95 Feb 3, 2013
Freespirit8 wrote:
<quoted text>
So you think that winning the cooperation of those advocacy groups might make the documentation process run more smoothly and successfully? Are they open to the idea of adjusted status with no promise of assistance or entitlements while working toward permanent resident status? Seems to me there has to be a good faith agreement on both sides before we grant any kind of amnesty.
AMNESTY will happens when the president sign the bill, everything will be inside the bill.

And then the companies will pay the price to not hiring more undocumented because it will cost a lot for them.

Thanks
Dwg

dwg

Everett, MA

#96 Feb 3, 2013
NTRPRNR1 wrote:
<quoted text>
So, feel free to make suggestions and recommendations. I will take all of them and see if I can make changes to make it better.
Sure, we will, and here many people want to forget the past and just look to the future, because our past will not help us a lot with our modern computers.

Thanks
Dwg

“I'm a searchlight soul”

Level 8

Since: Oct 07

they say

#97 Feb 3, 2013
NTRPRNR1 wrote:
<quoted text>Employers can pay very low wages because there is a line of men/women who need a job - a "glut". Under the laws of supply and demand, wages don't have to increase as long as people are standing on line for the job. Now, we already have a glut of available workers (unemployed) in the low wage sectors, and there are no jobs open for those men and women. Of the 14 million unemployed Americans who are ACTIVELY seeking a job, almost half of them are in the lowest to income sectors. That's 7 million. Interestingly enough (at least, I think so), we have 7 million illegal workers on the books. The majority of those workers are in the very same wage categories and skill levels as half our unemployed who are wanting a job.
Okay, Freebie. Say, we amnesty everybody just as TGW and let them stay on the job AND (with the proposals now being considered by Congress and the Administration) we institute an expanded TGW program, WHO do you think these TGWs will be and what kind of jobs do you think the lion's share of them will do?
Now, we already had a glut and we increase the glut, and even as new jobs open, the line is still out the door. Wages stay in the toilet. I know we both know somebody who understood that very well and was significant in helping put this proposal together.
The biggest sticking point is "what do we do about the old folks who are here and being supported but who are illegal?" Can a humane people throw the to the wolves? No. So, we will have to make concessions, and nothing I proposed is set in stone. BUT, it's a better beginning and starting point than either of the other proposals IF you are an American or legal immigrant, and IF you think Americans should come first in America.
So, feel free to make suggestions and recommendations. I will take all of them and see if I can make changes to make it better.
Thanks. Well, so far, any questions I've asked are just that - nothing more than trying to understand the reality of this problem.
Do we really trust those who created the problem to solve it? I hate to sound like a Lipton lover, lol, but I don't blindly trust my government to have my best interests, and I do see a concerted effort toward eliminating the middle class. A lot of people think immigration reform is too big a problem and unfixable. Others just want to blow hot air about it and raise their rifles over their heads, threatening to shoot anything illegal that moves. I am impressed and proud of all of you who have given much time and thought to putting this together.

“"One for the claws"”

Level 6

Since: Jul 10

Sin City,U.S.A.

#98 Feb 3, 2013
Fed Up wrote:
IF THIS DOESN'T SCARE THE HELL OUT OF YOU NOTHING WILL!!
Senate Plan Would Let Napolitano Trigger Citizenship for Illegals
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/...
Right after that kiss the USA goodbye. We'll be over run with people illegally entering this country in hopes of getting amnesty by fraudulent claims. There will be no checking of anything. They are lining up on the border right now.

“"One for the claws"”

Level 6

Since: Jul 10

Sin City,U.S.A.

#99 Feb 3, 2013
Fed Up wrote:
IF THIS DOESN'T SCARE THE HELL OUT OF YOU NOTHING WILL!!
Senate Plan Would Let Napolitano Trigger Citizenship for Illegals
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/...
Your link has been reported as an attack site. Rather interesting as I have been there before with no problems detected. Someone doesn't want this getting out.

“Gloria Ad Caput Venire”

Level 9

Since: Jan 08

Trump 2017 and beyond

#100 Feb 3, 2013
Many topix pages are reporting potential malware attacks.
Snake Eyes

Anaheim, CA

#101 Feb 3, 2013
A temporary amnesty is awarded all who are present illegally for 90 days or for turning in an assault rifle of certain make and model TBD.

“"One for the claws"”

Level 6

Since: Jul 10

Sin City,U.S.A.

#102 Feb 3, 2013
positronium wrote:
Many topix pages are reporting potential malware attacks.
Google Breitbart.com . Its also listed as an attack site there. They don't want people going there to get info.

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