Alternative Immigration Reform Plan ...

Level 6

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#21 Feb 2, 2013
_White American_ wrote:
<quoted text>Heck Jax I want to be with yall when you do this. Can we slow this down for someone that has to go out of topix for the night and maybe not get back until monday. At least try not to leave me in the dust.
:)
I do have some opinions on this part.
ltr
Good night.
LOL..no problem WA.

Even if there is some discussion before you get back there's no reason we can't go back and get more input.

I look forward to hearing how you see all of this.

Have a good weekend!

:)

Level 6

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#22 Feb 2, 2013
X -Man- wrote:
<quoted text>
You beat me to it. ;)
Ya snooze ya lose.

:p
dwg

Everett, MA

#24 Feb 2, 2013
Jaxxon wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey WA.
You've raised an interesting point that merits further discussion and I think it boils down to a very old concept.
"Taxation without representation".
If we are granting permanent residence status, but denying a path to citizenship the there may be an argument to be made that we would be creating a class of workers that would be taxed, but have no right to participate in the government that taxes them.
I think that's why the temporary guest worker status is an interesting idea. If these individuals did just come here looking for work and not citizenship (which the way they came here would indicate) then I think a guest worker program avoids the issue of non representation.
Jaxxon Wrote: I think that's why the temporary guest worker status is an interesting idea

DWG wrote:

The base in USA is democracy not tyranny , and voter in 2012 talk with the liders.

And the liders can not negociate diferent condition for the peoples in this land, or voter will keep republicans for 50 years out gov.

Thanks
Dwg



http://www.youtube.com/watch...

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Level 6

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#25 Feb 2, 2013
dwg wrote:
<quoted text>
Jaxxon Wrote: I think that's why the temporary guest worker status is an interesting idea
DWG wrote:
The base in USA is democracy not tyranny , and voter in 2012 talk with the liders.
And the liders can not negociate diferent condition for the peoples in this land, or voter will keep republicans for 50 years out gov.
Thanks
Dwg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =1Syga1MSTokXX
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
Unless the republicans make some serious changes I will continue to vote to keep them out of power just like I did in 2012 so don't make any assumptions about my party affiliation just because I find this to be an interesting subject.

We are simply discussing alternatives to the current proposals about immigration reform.

I'm as interested in your ideas as I am anyone else's even if you don't agree with what I have to say so there's is no reason to make this personal.
dwg

Everett, MA

#27 Feb 2, 2013
Jaxxon wrote:
<quoted text>
Unless the republicans make some serious changes I will continue to vote to keep them out of power just like I did in 2012 so don't make any assumptions about my party affiliation just because I find this to be an interesting subject.
We are simply discussing alternatives to the current proposals about immigration reform.
I'm as interested in your ideas as I am anyone else's even if you don't agree with what I have to say so there's is no reason to make this personal.
Jaxxon wrote:

A)..."We are simply discussing alternatives to the current proposals about immigration reform..."

B)..."I'm as interested in your ideas...."

C)..." no reason to make this personal..."

Dwg wrote:

A) the proposal is simple: The White House. Office of the Press Secretary

For Immediate Release January 29, 2013
FACT SHEET: Fixing our Broken Immigration System so Everyone Plays by the Rules

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/20...

B) appreciate your attention always.

C) no personal, we can work toghter in this issue.

Thanks
DWG


http://www.youtube.com/watch...

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Level 6

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#28 Feb 2, 2013
dwg wrote:
<quoted text>
Jaxxon wrote:
A)..."We are simply discussing alternatives to the current proposals about immigration reform..."
B)..."I'm as interested in your ideas...."
C)..." no reason to make this personal..."
Dwg wrote:
A) the proposal is simple: The White House. Office of the Press Secretary
For Immediate Release January 29, 2013
FACT SHEET: Fixing our Broken Immigration System so Everyone Plays by the Rules
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/20...
B) appreciate your attention always.
C) no personal, we can work toghter in this issue.
Thanks
DWG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =vvcGZzGYW4UXX
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
That's cool if that's the plan you support, but the whole purpose of this thread (as I understand it) is to present and discuss alternatives to the plans currently being offered by either the democrats or the republicans so when I come back tomorrow that is what I will continue to talk about.

You enjoy your weekend.
dwg

Everett, MA

#29 Feb 2, 2013
Jaxxon wrote:
<quoted text>
That's cool if that's the plan you support, but the whole purpose of this thread (as I understand it) is to present and discuss alternatives to the plans currently being offered by either the democrats or the republicans so when I come back tomorrow that is what I will continue to talk about.
You enjoy your weekend.
We will, nice weekend you too :-)

Thaks
DWG
dwg

Everett, MA

#30 Feb 2, 2013
** THANKS

“Try Reuters.”

Level 8

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#31 Feb 3, 2013
Jaxxon wrote:
1) A temporary amnesty is awarded all who are present illegally for 90 days (TBD). A public announcement is circulated that the United States Government is affording a one time only opportunity to apply for legal temporary guest worker positions. Applicants must have resided and worked in the U.S.A. for no fewer than 5 or 10 consecutive years (TBD), have filed tax returns with the IRS using their legitimate ITIN number and invalid social security number. They must come forward, apply for the program and sign a waiver with the IRS permitting release of their tax filings in order to qualify.
Okay, this isn't my thread and I didn't write the proposal, but I am very interesting in discussing it so, for my part, I'm going to take it one section at a time and see what's there and whether or not anyone else would like to offer any input.
If I'm understanding this right, anyone in the country illegally less than 90 days (as of the implementation of the plan) would not qualify for guest worker status.
Those that do qualify would have a one time shot at enrolling after ample notice of the program had been made public.
To qualify, the currently undocumented individual would have had to have been present in the country for a period of time (5 to 10 years still to be determined) must have already been paying taxes and must agree to have their tax returns released by the IRS for the purposes of verifying that they qualify.
Is that how it reads to everyone else?
Actually, anybody who hasn't resided and worked in the country for either 5 or 10 years (benchmark to be decided)wouldn't qualify for the program. In order words, those who recently arrived couldn't qualify. Everybody who did meet the minimum requirements would be eligible to apply. If you never paid taxes and only worked for cash, you wouldn't be eligible (i.e., cash pay workers).
Dee Dee Dee

Emmaus, PA

#32 Feb 3, 2013
NTRPRNR1 wrote:
<quoted text>Actually, anybody who hasn't resided and worked in the country for either 5 or 10 years (benchmark to be decided)wouldn't qualify for the program. In order words, those who recently arrived couldn't qualify. Everybody who did meet the minimum requirements would be eligible to apply. If you never paid taxes and only worked for cash, you wouldn't be eligible (i.e., cash pay workers).
In other words the hardened criminals who have been breaking the law the longest will get rewarded for all the crimes they have committed over many years if they have been using stolen or fake I.D. to work. Those who arrived recently will have to wait for the next amnesty.

Level 6

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#33 Feb 3, 2013
NTRPRNR1 wrote:
<quoted text>Actually, anybody who hasn't resided and worked in the country for either 5 or 10 years (benchmark to be decided)wouldn't qualify for the program. In order words, those who recently arrived couldn't qualify. Everybody who did meet the minimum requirements would be eligible to apply. If you never paid taxes and only worked for cash, you wouldn't be eligible (i.e., cash pay workers).
Okay, I went back and read section one over and I understand that to qualify for guest worker status a person would have had to have been present in the US for a minimum amount of time (5 to 10 years), but I think I got the first part wrong.

The whole thing would start with a temporary amnesty for everyone that had been present for at least ninety days. Anyone that had just arrived or been here less than 90 days (once the program started) would not qualify even for the temporary amnesty and would still be subject to deportation.

Am I reading that part right?

“Try Reuters.”

Level 8

Since: Mar 07

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#34 Feb 3, 2013
Dee Dee Dee wrote:
<quoted text>
In other words the hardened criminals who have been breaking the law the longest will get rewarded for all the crimes they have committed over many years if they have been using stolen or fake I.D. to work. Those who arrived recently will have to wait for the next amnesty.
Not exactly. You seem to be of the opinion that everybody here illegally is going home? That won't ever happen. So, wouldn't it be better to provide legal status to working contributing illegals and relieve taxpayers of the burden of those who work in an underground cash economy that continues to grow, as well as identifying and removing those who are supported primarily through tax dollars? No?

At any rate, I think it would be. I also think it's key to forcing employers to hire only legal workers.

Level 6

Since: Jan 13

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#35 Feb 3, 2013
Dee Dee Dee wrote:
<quoted text>
In other words the hardened criminals who have been breaking the law the longest will get rewarded for all the crimes they have committed over many years if they have been using stolen or fake I.D. to work. Those who arrived recently will have to wait for the next amnesty.
The way it stands right now, with the proposals that are gathering steam in Washington, the people you are talking about would be granted full amnesty and citizenship.

Documentation through a guest worker program would still allow some of them to stay, but would deny them citizenship which is why I'm looking for alternatives in the first place.

Those who have not been here long enough to qualify for the guest worker status would still be subject to deportation. At least that's the way I'm reading it.

I guess it boils down to whether you would rather see them documented as guest workers or see them given a full amnesty and a chance to become citizens.

“Try Reuters.”

Level 8

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#36 Feb 3, 2013
Jaxxon wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay, I went back and read section one over and I understand that to qualify for guest worker status a person would have had to have been present in the US for a minimum amount of time (5 to 10 years), but I think I got the first part wrong.
The whole thing would start with a temporary amnesty for everyone that had been present for at least ninety days. Anyone that had just arrived or been here less than 90 days (once the program started) would not qualify even for the temporary amnesty and would still be subject to deportation.
Am I reading that part right?
No. Everybody who has been present for a MINIMUM of 5 years would be eligible. Nobody who has been present for less than 5 years and working on the books and filing a tax return with the IRS would be eligible. Excluded from consideration: anybody totally enabled by cash work or welfare subsidy for American born children, or somebody who never filed a tax return.

We need to make distinctions in the illegal population in order to free up jobs for displaced and sidelined unemployed American and legal immigrant workers. This approach is how we can go about removing some illegal workers for the benefit of American workers.

Level 6

Since: Jan 13

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#37 Feb 3, 2013
NTRPRNR1 wrote:
<quoted text>Not exactly. You seem to be of the opinion that everybody here illegally is going home? That won't ever happen. So, wouldn't it be better to provide legal status to working contributing illegals and relieve taxpayers of the burden of those who work in an underground cash economy that continues to grow, as well as identifying and removing those who are supported primarily through tax dollars? No?
At any rate, I think it would be. I also think it's key to forcing employers to hire only legal workers.
I know I keep sticking my nose in, but I think this is a fascinating conversation.

Is it fair to say that one of the underlying principles of what you're proposing would be to make it more difficult for employers to hire undocumented workers in the future?
dwg

Everett, MA

#38 Feb 3, 2013
NTRPRNR1 wrote:
<quoted text>Actually, anybody who hasn't resided and worked in the country for either 5 or 10 years (benchmark to be decided)wouldn't qualify for the program. In order words, those who recently arrived couldn't qualify. Everybody who did meet the minimum requirements would be eligible to apply. If you never paid taxes and only worked for cash, you wouldn't be eligible (i.e., cash pay workers).
The question is, how many not qualify?

Note: the program qualify everybody without criminal records, the program is for no more undocumented in USA TODAY , TOMORROW AND FOREVER.

Thanks
DWG
dwg

Everett, MA

#39 Feb 3, 2013
Dee Dee Dee wrote:
<quoted text>
In other words the hardened criminals who have been breaking the law the longest will get rewarded for all the crimes they have committed over many years if they have been using stolen or fake I.D. to work. Those who arrived recently will have to wait for the next amnesty.
Hahahahahahahahaahaha

We will not be here for next amnesty (2013-3013)

Thanks
DWG

“Try Reuters.”

Level 8

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#40 Feb 3, 2013
dwg wrote:
<quoted text>
The question is, how many not qualify?
Note: the program qualify everybody without criminal records, the program is for no more undocumented in USA TODAY , TOMORROW AND FOREVER.
Thanks
DWG
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =8EBms7yfXR0XX
I understand your POV. Mine is different. You want all who came in violation of the law forgiven and provided the opportunity to become Americans. I disagree with you. I've explained that my concerns are also for American and legal immigrant workers who have lost jobs to illegal workers. I'd like to help them, and I'd like to improve life for those current illegals who are permitted to stay. We just have different points of view. I also want to stop more people from entering this nation and setting up housekeeping and driving down wages. Apparently, you don't care about that. I do. Just because you WANT to do something doesn't make it okay. I don't have to surrender part of my property to somebody who pitches a tent and decides they like the place and want amnesty to stay living on my property. I don't care that the local farmer wants them on my property so they can work for him cheap. Understand? At any rate, I think you've expressed yourself and your POV.
Dee Dee Dee

Emmaus, PA

#41 Feb 3, 2013
NTRPRNR1 wrote:
<quoted text>Not exactly. You seem to be of the opinion that everybody here illegally is going home? That won't ever happen. So, wouldn't it be better to provide legal status to working contributing illegals and relieve taxpayers of the burden of those who work in an underground cash economy that continues to grow, as well as identifying and removing those who are supported primarily through tax dollars? No?
At any rate, I think it would be. I also think it's key to forcing employers to hire only legal workers.
Obviously they are not going to go home as long as the immigration laws are not enforced. In fact just like every previous amnesty even more will come here illegally once amnesty is granted. The number of those who are supported by our tax dollars will only increase once they are granted amnesty and easier access to our entitlement system. If you think our government will focus on “removing those who are supported primarily through tax dollars” you are truly naive. Look at all the sob stories in the media. Most of the people they focus on are people who are supported primarily through tax dollars already, even though they are here illegally and definitely will be if amnesty is granted. People who are sick, single women with more kids than they completed in school, elderly people etc. Do you really think this country will put them at the head of the deportation line with those who have been convicted of “serious” crimes and allow only the honest, intelligent, motivated and hard working to stay?
Those that employ illegal aliens will continue to employ illegal aliens even if most are legalized because those employers do not want legal workers. It is much more difficult to exploit legal workers and since the pro-illegal groups are demanding amnesty without increased border security and immigration enforcement there will be no shortage of illegal workers. Many of those now working illegally will find that once they are legal there will be no jobs for them because they will be replaced by illegal aliens.
dwg

Everett, MA

#42 Feb 3, 2013
NTRPRNR1 wrote:
<quoted text>I understand your POV. Mine is different. You want all who came in violation of the law forgiven and provided the opportunity to become Americans. I disagree with you. I've explained that my concerns are also for American and legal immigrant workers who have lost jobs to illegal workers. I'd like to help them, and I'd like to improve life for those current illegals who are permitted to stay. We just have different points of view. I also want to stop more people from entering this nation and setting up housekeeping and driving down wages. Apparently, you don't care about that. I do. Just because you WANT to do something doesn't make it okay. I don't have to surrender part of my property to somebody who pitches a tent and decides they like the place and want amnesty to stay living on my property. I don't care that the local farmer wants them on my property so they can work for him cheap. Understand? At any rate, I think you've expressed yourself and your POV.
[QUOTE who=""]<quoted text>[/QUOTE]
........ also want to stop more people from entering this nation and setting up housekeeping and driving down wages. Apparently, you don't care about that. I do. Just because

[QUOTE who=""]<quoted text>[/QUOTE]

Hi NTRPRNR1,

Thank you so much for your attention, and we WILL BE with you soon to explain our POV.

GOD BLESS YOU
DWG

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