Alternative Immigration Reform Plan ...

“Peace”

Level 8

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#207 Feb 7, 2013
Hey Jax have you come up with an answer to my question to you a day or two back?

“Peace”

Level 8

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#208 Feb 7, 2013
NTRPRNR1 wrote:
<quoted text>I disagree if we are talking about the 40% of illegals who come on visas and fail to return when the visa expires.
As do I with the belief that the illegals came for citizenship.

Level 6

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#209 Feb 7, 2013
_White American_ wrote:
Hey Jax have you come up with an answer to my question to you a day or two back?
I think it goes back to the thoughts I had at the time.

For example, I see a difference between someone who has been here for a long time, set down roots and held a job (while paying into social security) and someone that has traveled back and forth between the US and the home country.

The first person I can see allowing to stay, the second not so much.

There are also a lot of people that have been deported and returned (some numerous times) basically thumbing their nose at our immigration laws repeatedly. I see no reason to allow them to stay.

Like I said, there would be a lot of factors that would play into it, but basically it boils down to the difference between someone that has a life here and someone that is just here out of convenience and not so invested in a having "life" here.

Does that make any sense at all?
Dee Dee Dee

Emmaus, PA

#210 Feb 7, 2013
Jaxxon wrote:
<quoted text>
I think it goes back to the thoughts I had at the time.
For example, I see a difference between someone who has been here for a long time, set down roots and held a job (while paying into social security) and someone that has traveled back and forth between the US and the home country.
The first person I can see allowing to stay, the second not so much.
There are also a lot of people that have been deported and returned (some numerous times) basically thumbing their nose at our immigration laws repeatedly. I see no reason to allow them to stay.
Like I said, there would be a lot of factors that would play into it, but basically it boils down to the difference between someone that has a life here and someone that is just here out of convenience and not so invested in a having "life" here.
Does that make any sense at all?
The biggest problem with that is you are rewarding those who have broken the most laws for the longest time. I have no problem with allowing those who were actually brought here illegally as children and can prove it, to apply to stay if they have done well in school, stayed out of trouble and they apply within a reasonable time, say a year or two after their 18th birthday but those who came here illegally as adults should have to leave and apply just like an honest immigrant no matter if they have been here a week or 20 years. As I said on another thread we should form a department of illegal aliens to oversee those who want to become legal and it should be financed by a tax on those who came here illegally as well as by fining and seizing property from those who are caught here illegally or who employ or assist illegal aliens.
We also need to make sure that those who came here illegally do not qualify for any public assistance for at least 10 years after they become legal.
Those who have been deported more than once have a felony conviction and anybody with a felony conviction should be automatically disqualified.

“Try Reuters.”

Level 8

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#211 Feb 7, 2013
Dee Dee Dee wrote:
<quoted text>
The biggest problem with that is you are rewarding those who have broken the most laws for the longest time. I have no problem with allowing those who were actually brought here illegally as children and can prove it, to apply to stay if they have done well in school, stayed out of trouble and they apply within a reasonable time, say a year or two after their 18th birthday but those who came here illegally as adults should have to leave and apply just like an honest immigrant no matter if they have been here a week or 20 years. As I said on another thread we should form a department of illegal aliens to oversee those who want to become legal and it should be financed by a tax on those who came here illegally as well as by fining and seizing property from those who are caught here illegally or who employ or assist illegal aliens.
We also need to make sure that those who came here illegally do not qualify for any public assistance for at least 10 years after they become legal.
Those who have been deported more than once have a felony conviction and anybody with a felony conviction should be automatically disqualified.
You are looking at it differently than others. You're concerned about rewarding illegals, and I think it's much more a matter of settling this issue for the best benefit of Americans and taxpayers.

There are distinctions to be made as to which of those present illegally have made a contribution and "tried" to do the right thing (regardless of whether or not WE agree) and those who never concerned themselves at all with rules: welfare enabled, cash pay day, criminal enterprise illegals. Or, those who only recently arrived or will be arriving soon for the perceived opportunity of legalization.

If they've worked and filed tax returns for at least five consecutive years, they aren't the moochers and freeloaders who cost taxpayers, who cross the border both ways freqently, who have been deported and continue to come back again, or who staff the underground cash economy that deprives us of tax revenues. Just another point of view.

“Peace”

Level 8

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#212 Feb 7, 2013
Jaxxon wrote:
<quoted text>
I think it goes back to the thoughts I had at the time.
For example, I see a difference between someone who has been here for a long time, set down roots and held a job (while paying into social security) and someone that has traveled back and forth between the US and the home country.
The first person I can see allowing to stay, the second not so much.
There are also a lot of people that have been deported and returned (some numerous times) basically thumbing their nose at our immigration laws repeatedly. I see no reason to allow them to stay.
Like I said, there would be a lot of factors that would play into it, but basically it boils down to the difference between someone that has a life here and someone that is just here out of convenience and not so invested in a having "life" here.
Does that make any sense at all?
Yes it does make sense. But let me add that those that have been here a long time would be more inclined to want to become a citizen then those that simply use the border as a revolving door.
Maried

Bryant, AR

#213 Feb 7, 2013
Jaxxon wrote:
5) Temporary guest workers are subject to removal from the program for any felony conviction including DUI or domestic abuse. TGW are not eligible for public welfare other than emergency health care as mandated by federal law. They are responsible for the care and support of immediate family members ONLY who will be permitted to stay and be supported solely by the TGW.
No TGW is permitted to reside in taxpayer funded housing unless he/she is the primary caregiver and legal guardian (parent) of an American born child who is eligible. All others who have been staying with extended family members will be provided a ninety day window to move into the private sector and show proof of the relocation.
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/immigration/T...
Yep but they don't like facts oh well it will hit them soon when the reform passes

“Try Reuters.”

Level 8

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#214 Feb 7, 2013
Maried wrote:
<quoted text>
Yep but they don't like facts oh well it will hit them soon when the reform passes
Did you understand what he posted? He posted one of the points from an alternate proposal - different than what the Senate and Administration have floated.

Please read the first 4 posts on the thread, and if you have comments or any suggestions to make it better, please post your thoughts.

Thanks.
DWG

Everett, MA

#215 Feb 7, 2013
NTRPRNR1 wrote:
<quoted text>Walter, we just are not going to get on the same page. I think "pathway to citizenship" is a bad idea. It signals more to come for the opportunity. It creates a huge financial burden as time goes by. If the majority of illegal immigrants were college educated, I probably wouldn't have the same reservations. They'd be chain-migrating more educated family members than we're going to get with this mess. These are just facts.
Most other major First World nations have caught up to how and who to immigrate to improve their societies. If there's no skill you have that Sweden needs, you aren't going to be permitted to immigrate to Sweden. Sorry - no place for you. Compassion is one thing. Leveling the playing field and improving living circumstances for contributing workers via some form of legal status change is another thing. The BAD thing is giving them the keys to the vault and inviting even MORE uneducated folks to join us down the road - when what we really need are immigrants with skills and talents we lack. Sorry you don't see that. I don't think you'll ever look at that.
NTRPRNR1 WROTE: ".....The BAD thing is giving them the keys to the vault and inviting even MORE uneducated folks to join us down the road - when what we really need are immigrants with skills and talents we lack. Sorry you don't see that. I don't think you'll ever look at that....."

DWG WROTE: it looks like a poor mother who gave a birth to five babies.

They are already here, and they are parte of our fabric.

The question is , what do you wanna deal with 11 million undocumented here in USA?

Thanks
Dwg

“Try Reuters.”

Level 8

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#216 Feb 7, 2013
DWG wrote:
<quoted text>
NTRPRNR1 WROTE: ".....The BAD thing is giving them the keys to the vault and inviting even MORE uneducated folks to join us down the road - when what we really need are immigrants with skills and talents we lack. Sorry you don't see that. I don't think you'll ever look at that....."
DWG WROTE: it looks like a poor mother who gave a birth to five babies.
They are already here, and they are parte of our fabric.
The question is , what do you wanna deal with 11 million undocumented here in USA?
Thanks
Dwg
Read the first FOUR Posts on the thread. I said exactly how I think we should deal with them - with distinctions made and some allowed to convert status and others excluded from jobs and left to figure it out for themselves. If they have children, we would provide them enough money to resettle back in their homelands. That's how I want to deal with it.

Just take your time. I laid out a plan that's better for America.
Maried

Bryant, AR

#217 Feb 7, 2013
NTRPRNR1 wrote:
<quoted text>Did you understand what he posted? He posted one of the points from an alternate proposal - different than what the Senate and Administration have floated.
Please read the first 4 posts on the thread, and if you have comments or any suggestions to make it better, please post your thoughts.
Thanks.
We may not agree on everything but there should be time line if they haven't paid taxes before to get benefits I'm all for more security but from the inside scan all fingers of each hand of every person you hire that is contacted to a data base that tells you what crimes they done who they and if they are legally do background checks and get the bad ones out keep the good ones here I'm not all for government hand outs it would be better to end a lot of them so people will work so I am for the reform but I don't think it should be easy to get
DWG

Everett, MA

#218 Feb 7, 2013
NTRPRNR1 wrote:
<quoted text>Read the first FOUR Posts on the thread. I said exactly how I think we should deal with them - with distinctions made and some allowed to convert status and others excluded from jobs and left to figure it out for themselves. If they have children, we would provide them enough money to resettle back in their homelands. That's how I want to deal with it.
Just take your time. I laid out a plan that's better for America.
NTRPRNR1 wrote: ".......To summarize the proposal, we would afford a conversion of some of those here illegally who have been working, contributing and paying taxes into temporary guest workers only (with NO pathway to citizenship)....."

Dwg wrote:

Hey NTRPRNR1 you do not have notion what means nation, do you want, for serious, write this down for american history? Here is nation of brave mans and womans.....

Our frase is " GOD BLESS AMERICA " and is not " WE WILL BLESSED THEM " if you know what i mean?

Sample: imagine a car accident, and people can not get off the car, seems smoke around this accident, people need help as soon as possible,.

And the only witness to help them is from " american temporary guest work program without citizenship " that said:

....A car accident is not part of program , and " GOD BLESS THEM INSIDE THE CAR " I will pray for some american come to help those americans.

Thanks
DWG
Snake Eyes

Anaheim, CA

#219 Feb 7, 2013
Freespirit8 wrote:
<quoted text>
Forgive me my ignorance, but are employers able to hold the wages low because of illegal workers having a lower skill set, or because they know they will accept a lower wage since they are limited in what jobs are available to them? Or something else - please enlighten me.
Bloom Energy breaks silence, takes responsibility for 'breakdown' in underpaying Mexican workers

Bloom, which has won national acclaim for its innovative fuel-cell technology, said it cooperated with a U.S. Department of Labor investigation that found the company brought the Mexican workers to its Sunnyvale plant and paid them the equivalent of $2.66 an hour in pesos, wired to accounts in Mexico, while they worked alongside U.S. employees.

Read more: http://www.marinij.com/business/ci_22544649/b...
DWG

Everett, MA

#220 Feb 8, 2013
NTRPRNR1 wrote:
<quoted text>Read the first FOUR Posts on the thread. I said exactly how I think we should deal with them - with distinctions made and some allowed to convert status and others excluded from jobs and left to figure it out for themselves. If they have children, we would provide them enough money to resettle back in their homelands. That's how I want to deal with it.
Just take your time. I laid out a plan that's better for America.
NTRPRNR1 wrote: ".......To summarize the proposal, we would afford a conversion of some of those here illegally who have been working, contributing and paying taxes into temporary guest workers only (with NO pathway to citizenship)....."

Dwg wrote:

Hey NTRPRNR1 you do not have notion what means nation, do you want, for serious, write this down for american history? Here is nation of brave mans and womans.....

Our frase is " GOD BLESS AMERICA " and is not " WE WILL BLESS THEM " if you know what i mean?

Sample: imagine a car accident, and people can not get off the car, seems smoke around this accident, people need help as soon as possible,.

And the only witness to help them is from " american temporary guest work program without citizenship " that said:

....A car accident is not part of program , and " GOD BLESS THEM INSIDE THE CAR " I will pray for some american come to help those americans.

Thanks
DWG (amnesty 2013)

“Peace”

Level 8

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#221 Feb 8, 2013
Snake Eyes wrote:
<quoted text>
Bloom Energy breaks silence, takes responsibility for 'breakdown' in underpaying Mexican workers
Bloom, which has won national acclaim for its innovative fuel-cell technology, said it cooperated with a U.S. Department of Labor investigation that found the company brought the Mexican workers to its Sunnyvale plant and paid them the equivalent of $2.66 an hour in pesos, wired to accounts in Mexico, while they worked alongside U.S. employees.
Read more: http://www.marinij.com/business/ci_22544649/b...
Wow ..... 2.66 pesos an hour. That's about equivalent to 27 cents US dollars an hour wages. Plus they brought them here. I sure hope the U.S. Dept of Labor hits them heavy with fines as well as that Corp should have to go back and pay each employee they underpaid appropriate wage amount.
Snake Eyes

Anaheim, CA

#222 Feb 8, 2013
_White American_ wrote:
<quoted text>Wow ..... 2.66 pesos an hour. That's about equivalent to 27 cents US dollars an hour wages. Plus they brought them here. I sure hope the U.S. Dept of Labor hits them heavy with fines as well as that Corp should have to go back and pay each employee they underpaid appropriate wage amount.
Immigration Is Not a Domestic Issue

As the builder of fences for the US-Mexico border, as well as immigration jails and a Border Patrol station, the Golden State Fence Company was well served by the politics of xenophobia. The popular desire to turn the United States into a huge gated community, fortified against poverty and aspiration, was good for business. The only problem was that undocumented workers—the very people the fences were designed to keep out—were also good for business.“They were more trustworthy and more apt to stay long term,” said one of the executives.

When prosecutors investigated the company in 2004, they discovered that a third of its employees were undocumented. Charges were filed. Many of the workers were deported. The managers were allowed to carry on working while under house arrest for six months. Pushed by economics, repelled by politics, the poor were repatriated while the wealthy reaped profits: the contradictions and paradoxes of America’s response to immigration laid bare.

Read more: http://www.thenation.com/article/172704/immig... #
Dee Dee Dee

Emmaus, PA

#224 Feb 8, 2013
NTRPRNR1 wrote:
<quoted text>You are looking at it differently than others. You're concerned about rewarding illegals, and I think it's much more a matter of settling this issue for the best benefit of Americans and taxpayers.
There are distinctions to be made as to which of those present illegally have made a contribution and "tried" to do the right thing (regardless of whether or not WE agree) and those who never concerned themselves at all with rules: welfare enabled, cash pay day, criminal enterprise illegals. Or, those who only recently arrived or will be arriving soon for the perceived opportunity of legalization.
If they've worked and filed tax returns for at least five consecutive years, they aren't the moochers and freeloaders who cost taxpayers, who cross the border both ways freqently, who have been deported and continue to come back again, or who staff the underground cash economy that deprives us of tax revenues. Just another point of view.
I have some sympathy for those who have been here and work hard for many years but the fact remains that the '86 amnesty for 1.5 million or so has resulted in 15 million more people seeing that there is reward and benefit to coming here illegally. The fact also remains that as long you are here illegally you are breaking the law on a daily basis. Do you prosecute the shoplifter who does it once or twice but not the one who does it everyday for years?
Those that come here and work a few months then go back do it to survive as people have done for generations. If it were not for those demanding amnesty immigration reform would have passed long ago making it easier for the migrant who comes here to work so they would not have to sneak in. Those that come here illegally or legally then stay illegally, start a family and put down roots are the real criminals.

“Try Reuters.”

Level 8

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#225 Feb 8, 2013
Dee Dee Dee wrote:
<quoted text>I have some sympathy for those who have been here and work hard for many years but the fact remains that the '86 amnesty for 1.5 million or so has resulted in 15 million more people seeing that there is reward and benefit to coming here illegally. The fact also remains that as long you are here illegally you are breaking the law on a daily basis. Do you prosecute the shoplifter who does it once or twice but not the one who does it everyday for years?
Those that come here and work a few months then go back do it to survive as people have done for generations. If it were not for those demanding amnesty immigration reform would have passed long ago making it easier for the migrant who comes here to work so they would not have to sneak in. Those that come here illegally or legally then stay illegally, start a family and put down roots are the real criminals.
That isn't really the point of this thread. Again, CIR is on the front burner again, and once again, it looks like it did before with a broad blanket amnesty being afforded all who sign on aside from criminals. Now, in the months ahead, if there seems to be enough momentum to pass legislation, we can expect a renewed influx of illegals since neither proposal makes any distinctions from those who cross back and forth, those who exist on welfare subsidy for their American born children, those who work for the cash payday and/or on the books and keep American workers from finding jobs because they are paid such low wages. That issue is the entire point of the proposal at the beginning of this thread.

Can we find a way to settle this issue that is BETTER for American workers and American taxpayers and that affords legal status only for those who work and pay taxes and contribute? Must we also take on the burden of those who don't contribute but merely deprive us of tax revenues for the benefit of businesses who employ them?

If you have a better way, please detail your thoughts. If you don't like the proposal, say what is objectionable versus what the Senate Committee and The Administration have proposed.

I'd like to open up jobs for American workers who have been shut out. Therefore, I believe we can and we should make distinctions. I understand that some people want them all deported, and that is never going to happen. Must we amnesty everybody who arrives by the amnesty date? Do they deserve a "pathway to citizenship"? If we give them that, how many more will overstay a visa or find their ways across the border hoping for the same deal?

The bottom line is that time is short to have any influence at all in the legislation that is in the process of being drafted. Whatever your position is, now is the time to write your reps and tell them what you think and what you want to see happen.
Dee Dee Dee

Emmaus, PA

#226 Feb 8, 2013
If amnesty is passed there will be millions of jobs for bilingual Americans to process applications, investigate, administrate and spread bureaucracy. All paid for with American tax dollars.
That will be offset by the influx of more illegals looking to fill jobs vacated by the now legal illegals and so it goes.

“Peace”

Level 8

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#227 Feb 8, 2013
Snake Eyes wrote:
<quoted text>
Immigration Is Not a Domestic Issue
As the builder of fences for the US-Mexico border, as well as immigration jails and a Border Patrol station, the Golden State Fence Company was well served by the politics of xenophobia. The popular desire to turn the United States into a huge gated community, fortified against poverty and aspiration, was good for business. The only problem was that undocumented workers—the very people the fences were designed to keep out—were also good for business.“They were more trustworthy and more apt to stay long term,” said one of the executives.
When prosecutors investigated the company in 2004, they discovered that a third of its employees were undocumented. Charges were filed. Many of the workers were deported. The managers were allowed to carry on working while under house arrest for six months. Pushed by economics, repelled by politics, the poor were repatriated while the wealthy reaped profits: the contradictions and paradoxes of America’s response to immigration laid bare.
Read more: http://www.thenation.com/article/172704/immig... #
You come up with some interesting information. Much food for thought.

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