Obama takes on power plant emissions as part of climate plan

Jun 25, 2013 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Reuters

President Barack Obama will attempt to kick-start a global climate agenda on Tuesday with proposals including a plan to limit carbon emissions from existing U.S. power plants that is sure to face opposition from the coal industry, many business groups and Republican lawmakers.

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gcaveman1

Bay Springs, MS

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#1753
Sep 24, 2013
 

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This for our favorite birder here:

So, last week approximately 7,500 songbirds flew into a giant flame and died.

The CBC reports:

About 7,500 songbirds, possibly including some endangered species, were killed while flying over a gas plant in Saint John late last week, officials have confirmed.

It appears the migrating birds flew into the gas flare at Canaport LNG between Friday night and Saturday morning, said Fraser Forsythe, the company's health, safety, security and environmental manager.

The birds were drawn to the flame like moths, an extremely unusual event, according to Don McAlpine, the head of zoology at the New Brunswick Museum.

"They would circle in around that and of course with a large flame like that and high temperatures, they wouldn't need to get terribly close to become singed or burned."
gcaveman1

Bay Springs, MS

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#1754
Sep 24, 2013
 

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Brian_G wrote:
Obama wants to bring down the US economy, that's why he opposes new coal plants. There's nothing wrong with natural gas but that's no reason to impose new restrictions on coal.
Stop wasteful government spending, repeal intrusive regulation and stop higher taxes.
You are totally irrational. If you COULD think, you would have thought what a stupid statement it was before you made it.

Tell us first, why would a US President want the destroy the economy of his own country.

Then tell us why a US President would want that legacy.

You are a prime example of Teabagger stupidity.
gcaveman1

Bay Springs, MS

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#1755
Sep 24, 2013
 

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Here's another bird-killer, from 2011. Who woulda thunk?

Here's another reason for less pavement and parking lots: Thousands of dead and injured birds.

As you may have noticed, big stores have big parking lots, that channel rainwater and pollutants into local rivers and streams. Those same parking lots also are barely ever filled to capacity, except maybe during the holidays. In Utah, storm clouds and water that gathered in parking lots caused the death of thousands of birds, called eared grebes, on their migration path.

About 1,500 birds died after hitting the parking lot of a Walmart store and other open areas of Cedar City, Utah, according to The Salt Lake Tribune. They apparently landed to rest on the pond, but instead slammed into the pavement. A little better news: About 3,500 birds were rescued by various residents and Utah wildlife officials, then re-released into the wild.

Maybe these parking lots should have been better designed, to drain properly? And perhaps they didn't even need to be built, with the out-of-whack standards in some cities for how many spaces are needed outside stores.

Better yet, how about permeable pavement, that allows water to drain down and filter out pollutants, instead of run off and pollute the environment? And in this case, kill birds.

There is no avoiding the collision between Nature and civilization. Maybe one day it will result in fewer, smarter humans, which would be an improvement.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

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SE Michigan

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#1758
Sep 24, 2013
 

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gcaveman1 wrote:
This for our favorite birder here:
So, last week approximately 7,500 songbirds flew into a giant flame and died.
The CBC reports:
About 7,500 songbirds, possibly including some endangered species, were killed while flying over a gas plant in Saint John late last week, officials have confirmed.
It appears the migrating birds flew into the gas flare at Canaport LNG between Friday night and Saturday morning, said Fraser Forsythe, the company's health, safety, security and environmental manager.
The birds were drawn to the flame like moths, an extremely unusual event, according to Don McAlpine, the head of zoology at the New Brunswick Museum.
"They would circle in around that and of course with a large flame like that and high temperatures, they wouldn't need to get terribly close to become singed or burned."
I don't know why they call this an extremely unusual event. We all know birds are attracted to lights, whether on skyscrapers, cell towers or giant wind turbines. Why would a flame be any different? All attract insects which the birds need to eat; or as some scientists think, it confuses the birds.

In any case, birds would be smart enough to avoid the heat of a flame, but if that flame suddenly burst up or outward from a wind gust or some such thing, that could very well happen. Maybe those flames should not be burnig at night during peak migration.

Wet parking lots have been a problem for loons too. If they come down on land, they cannot take off again and will die if not rescued.

I have forever touted habitat destruction as the biggest concern for wildlife populations. Large parking lots are unnecessary and I have been against them and have spoken out against them too.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

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#1759
Sep 24, 2013
 
I don't know what day this happened or where St. John is, but is it any coincidence that one day last week, I woke up at 4am and it was terribly foogy outside. My heart sank when I seen that knowing that somewhere, some birds, maybe MANY migrating birds were dying that night. Some just hatched weeks earlier and making their very first migration.

Unnecessary deaths like this make my stomach turn.
Ricos Anonymous Proxy

Los Angeles, CA

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#1760
Sep 24, 2013
 

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teddyr4me wrote:
<quoted text>The truth is they both suck as presidents...Obama may alienate enough Dems to vote for Republicans...He is a bigger joke than George W.
Ted Cruz is your fail. He will push many Republicans to vote Democrat!!!
litesong

Everett, WA

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#1762
Sep 24, 2013
 

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Raptor in Michigan wrote:
I had a Yellow-rump in the yard this morning. Last week, while sitting outside with the camera, a Nashville showed up and cooperated for quite a long time, while I fired off approx 100 shots of it. but to have one come close and actually sit still long enough to get pictures of it is a thrill!
Yeah, there's a lot to be said for having fairly low power, wide angle binoculars for the small fast moving birds.

During spring migration, thousands of Audubons worked the trees in the front yard & the green belt in the back. Tho 40 feet away, the camera took fairly good pix of the beautiful birds. Ten days ago, got some mediocre pix of the Pelicans on the Washington coast, which stayed a couple hundred yards offshore with tens of thousands of other seabirds.
gcaveman1

Louin, MS

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#1765
Sep 24, 2013
 
Toutle wrote:
<quoted text>There is no avoiding the collision between smarter humans and DUM DUM caveman like you.
Maybe one day it will result in you living in a cave which would be an improvement,you want some GUM GUM DUM DUM.
Thanks for your input, such as it is.

Your own words make a better argument for denier stupidity than I ever could.
gcaveman1

Louin, MS

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#1766
Sep 24, 2013
 
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
I don't know what day this happened or where St. John is....
This article was from 2012.

The CBC reports
Saint John
Canaport LNG
the New Brunswick Museum

A little deductive reasoning or even a quick Google search might have given you a clue that the location was Canada.

I know you're young and inexperienced, but please, try a little harder!

“Work hard at work worth doing.”

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#1767
Sep 24, 2013
 

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Ricos Anonymous Proxy wrote:
<quoted text>
Ted Cruz is your fail. He will push many Republicans to vote Democrat!!!
Ted Cruz is proving that he has more tecticular fortitude than most of his counterparts across the aisle and in his own party.
Jeff

Oak Hill, WV

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#1768
Sep 24, 2013
 

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No warmer now than 15 years ago.
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

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#1769
Sep 25, 2013
 

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Jeff wrote:
No warmer now than 15 years ago.
What is not?

“CAPS LOCK CAUSE CLIMATE CHANGE”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

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#1770
Sep 25, 2013
 
gcaveman1 wrote:
You are totally irrational. If you COULD think, you would have thought what a stupid statement it was before you made it.
Tell us first, why would a US President want the destroy the economy of his own country. Then tell us why a US President would want that legacy.
You are a prime example of Teabagger stupidity.
He would do it to push an anticapitalist agenda, when companies have to lay people off because of higher healthcare and energy prices, he'll blame evil corporations.

I didn't write President Obama wants to destroy all of the economy, he's waived the employer mandates for his rich friends in business and the Federal Reserve Bank is putting trillions into the markets (QE2).

Now, Obama wants to add new restrictions to energy production. Down with government regulation, that's why Senator Cruz filibustered!

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

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SE Michigan

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#1771
Sep 25, 2013
 
Toutle wrote:
<quoted text>How about all them birds getting killed by cars an little kitty cats maybe we should be against them to just like the parking lots an then there's them darn Hunters killing all them Duck,Geese,Dove's onanonanon get my point Raptor.
Don't get me wrong I like birds to but you guys are just way out there.
Also mother nature doesn't waste anything every thing is hungry an just looking for a meal so don't worry about the bird something well eat them.
Comments like this don't even justify a response. But I'll respond anyway. Let's talk about justification. "Since cats and cars kill birds, who cares if anything else does?," is basically what you're saying. Let's apply that same line of thinking to humans. Since cancer and car accidents kill so many people, why should we attempt to lessen the deaths from fossil fuels, plane crashes, or anything else?

Why would anyone who cares about birds OR humans, think that way?

I don't know what you mean when you say "You guys are WAY OUT THERE."

Us "guys" are no different than you or anyone else. By "way out there," I assume you mean, "Maybe WE know something you don't and are trying to avoid disaster (like mass exinctions of small tropical songbirds) while we still can."

I'd bet odds you've never been bird watching, correct? No, I don't mean you "watched some sparrows" at the bird feeder. I mean seriously went out, binoculars and all, looking for birds.....new birds you've never seen before.

The birds "we people" are out watching and looking for, do not come to bird feeders. They 'mostly' do not even nest near our homes, unless we live in "more natural, unmowed settings." And a good many of the birds we are looking for only pass through this country, or the majority of it, during spring and fall migrations. We only have a few short weeks in which to see them. They are the neotropical migratory songbirds that migrate during the dead of night. Most people don't know they even exist. That is the warblers, vireos, flycatchers, thrushes, grosbeaks, tanagers, buntings, cuckoos and others. "Us people" that are "way out there" do know they exist. And WE don't want to lose them. That is hardly strange, or WAY OUT THERE, IMO. Yet we see it each year...fewer and fewer numbers of these birds (many of them) showing up in our local migration hotspots.

If 5000 Red-eyed Vireos died at that gas plant, and another 5000 Red-eyed Vireos die at 12 wind turbines, and 8000 Red-eyed Vireos die at a skyscraper in NYC, do you really think that's nothing to be concerned about, simply because cats killed another 20,000 Red-eyed Vireos? Really?

Think about that; If more are dying than are successfully fledging AND returning to breed each spring, what happens to the species? It certainly won't be a "natural" extinction if that what it comes to.

How many Red-eyed Vireos did you have singing in your local woods this summer? I had very few compared to previous years. Twenty years ago, they were one of the most abundant songbirds in the woods here. They could be heard around every bend in a trail in every patch of woods. Not so much anymore.

You will most always hear them before you see them. They tend to stay high in the forest canopy all summer long, but they sing constantly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

I had a Red-eyed Vireo stop by my yard last week and pose for the camera. What a treat to see it down so low!

There's a saying...something like; Why would you want to save something you don't even know exists?

That article claimed there were many Red-eyed Vireos among the dead. That's why I used this species as the example.

I don't care if other things eat all the corpses or not. That was a mass die-off that should not have happened.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

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Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

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#1772
Sep 25, 2013
 
litesong wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, there's a lot to be said for having fairly low power, wide angle binoculars for the small fast moving birds.
During spring migration, thousands of Audubons worked the trees in the front yard & the green belt in the back. Tho 40 feet away, the camera took fairly good pix of the beautiful birds. Ten days ago, got some mediocre pix of the Pelicans on the Washington coast, which stayed a couple hundred yards offshore with tens of thousands of other seabirds.
There is no shortage of yellow-rumps here either. But I am concerned about some of the other warblers.

I had a specieal treat this summer. A Canada nested in the yard up at the cabin. Having only weekends to go up there, I never was able to determine if they had young that fledged successfully. Later I'll put one of my photos of them on the website.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

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#1773
Sep 25, 2013
 
Toutle wrote:
<quoted text>you got CEDAR WAXWINGS back in Michigan Raptor?
Cedar Waxwings are very common here most of the year. That's the bird that got me hooked!

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

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#1774
Sep 25, 2013
 
gcaveman1 wrote:
<quoted text>
This article was from 2012.
The CBC reports
Saint John
Canaport LNG
the New Brunswick Museum
A little deductive reasoning or even a quick Google search might have given you a clue that the location was Canada.
I know you're young and inexperienced, but please, try a little harder!
Sorry, but sometimes working a full-time job and trying to run a business and a home limits my Google search time.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

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#1777
Sep 25, 2013
 

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Toutle wrote:
<quoted text>Ok sorry for getting off to a bad start with ya.
I got my bird book out now an RED-EYED VIREO don't make it to the west coast of Washington state only the east side of the Cascade's.
I do live in the middle of the woods an have birds here all the time summer and winter.
Not to get off birds but we have had a little trouble with Deer here for sometime but its getting better now.
The problem was a brown slug that showed up about 30 or 40 year ago an they leave a slim trail on every thing,the native slug's are green an they don't leave slim trail.
The brown ones are only found 1500 an below in elevation.
Anyhow the brown ones leave something on stuff that deer eat an it get's in the deer lungs and there system try's to fight it.
Then the lice over take them and there hair falls out, an if winter is bad they don't make it but they have slowly gotten over it an are making a come back.
Also the brown slug is here to stay for sure there every where in the forest.
I'm sorry too. Sometimes I take things a little too personally. I remember walking down my street at the cabin in Northern MI one evening. One of the neighbors, a nice young woman, was walking down the road with her Mom and they were coming my way. Little did she know, I have very good hearing. It comes from years of birding, and training myself to listen for the slightest little chirp that would help me locate and identify a small songbird from many yards away. Much the way Indians would listen for hoof beats or approaching danger or storms. After a while, you really get in tune to nature.

Anyway, as this lady,(I'll call her Terry,) and her Mom got closer, I heard Terry whisper to her Mother, "She's a birdwatcher." That really blew my mind! It made me wonder, what exactly IS a "bird watcher" to someone who's never done it? Do people really think we are different? All 46 million of us?(as of the 2001 survey.) If I was a stamp collector, would she have whispered, "She's a stamp collector"?

We stopped and made small talk for a few minutes before going our separate ways. Terry has since moved to Georgia. I often wonder if she has ever seen a Painted Bunting down there. If she has, has she too turned into a "bird watcher?" If that bird doesn't convert someone, I don't know what would.
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

As for the Red-eyed Vireo, my National Geo Field Guide to the Birds of North America shows them awful close to your area. Remember, they have wings and they don't always follow human rules. Keep your eyes and ears open for them in spring and summer. One could even show up during migration if you have a bird bath. Moving water attracts birds like a magnet. You probably get lots of Warbling Vireos in your area.
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

I heard about that deer losing their hair thing out west. I didn't know it was because of a slug. An alien species, I presume? Those aliens have a bad habit of wreaking havoc on native wildlife and ecosystems. I'm sure the deer will build an immunity.

When West Nile hit hard here about ten years ago, we thought birds were done. It was so bad, I had to walk my yard every day before letting my dogs outside. Dead and dying birds were everywhere. It affected mostly Goldfinches, House Finches and Blue Jays as far as I could tell. It was sad to see baby Goldfinches begging for food from their parents, but the parents sit there fluffed up and dying, then a few days later the babies were fluffed up too, only to die shortly afterward.

Maybe I noticed those species as being hit the hardest because they are easy to observe at feeders. I didn't notice it so much among the grosbeaks or orioles, who also come to feeders. Though I do recall one Rose-breasted Grosbeak that died from West Nile the following year just days after it arrived in the spring. I drove it two hours one way to a rehabber hoping it could be saved.

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#1778
Sep 25, 2013
 
Toutle wrote:
<quoted text>I'v done a lot of bird watching Rapor just not like you and song do.
I could go there real easy thought but I just got to many other thing on my plate if ya know what I mean.
Got a lake real close that has a lot of Birds there year round an if I were to take a mind to it I could spend the rest of my life right there looking at Birds.
The lake is called Silverlake an it's in south west Washington Google it,it's a Birds paradise year round.
I know what you mean about the full plate. I work a lot of hours at a full time job and spend the rest of my time trying to get my business off the ground. I always to find time to get in some birding though. Even if it's just in my yard, I'll sit a ways from the bird bath and wait for something different and interesting to show up. Or I'll go for a walk in the nearby woods. I have kept this coming weekend free to go to the cabin up north. It's near Grayling. Two days of photographing birds and fall color is all I plan on doing.

Silver Lake looks about as beautiful as any lake I've ever seen. Lucky you! You get Varied Thrush there? It's one of my most wanted birds of the Northwest.
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
PHD

Waller, TX

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#1779
Sep 26, 2013
 

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Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
Comments like this don't even justify a response. But I'll respond anyway. Let's talk about justification. "Since cats and cars kill birds, who cares if anything else does?," is basically what you're saying. Let's apply that same line of thinking to humans. Since cancer and car accidents kill so many people, why should we attempt to lessen the deaths from fossil fuels, plane crashes, or anything else?
Why would anyone who cares about birds OR humans, think that way?
I don't know what you mean when you say "You guys are WAY OUT THERE."
Us "guys" are no different than you or anyone else. By "way out there," I assume you mean, "Maybe WE know something you don't and are trying to avoid disaster (like mass exinctions of small tropical songbirds) while we still can."
I'd bet odds you've never been bird watching, correct? No, I don't mean you "watched some sparrows" at the bird feeder. I mean seriously went out, binoculars and all, looking for birds.....new birds you've never seen before.
The birds "we people" are out watching and looking for, do not come to bird feeders. They 'mostly' do not even nest near our homes, unless we live in "more natural, unmowed settings." And a good many of the birds we are looking for only pass through this country, or the majority of it, during spring and fall migrations. We only have a few short weeks in which to see them. They are the neotropical migratory songbirds that migrate during the dead of night. Most people don't know they even exist. That is the warblers, vireos, flycatchers, thrushes, grosbeaks, tanagers, buntings, cuckoos and others. "Us people" that are "way out there" do know they exist. And WE don't want to lose them. That is hardly strange, or WAY OUT THERE, IMO. Yet we see it each year...fewer and fewer numbers of these birds (many of them) showing up in our local migration hotspots.
If 5000 Red-eyed Vireos died at that gas plant, and another 5000 Red-eyed Vireos die at 12 wind turbines, and 8000 Red-eyed Vireos die at a skyscraper in NYC, do you really think that's nothing to be concerned about, simply because cats killed another 20,000 Red-eyed Vireos? Really?
Think about that; If more are dying than are successfully fledging AND returning to breed each spring, what happens to the species? It certainly won't be a "natural" extinction if that what it comes to.
How many Red-eyed Vireos did you have singing in your local woods this summer? I had very few compared to previous years. Twenty years ago, they were one of the most abundant songbirds in the woods here. They could be heard around every bend in a trail in every patch of woods. Not so much anymore.
You will most always hear them before you see them. They tend to stay high in the forest canopy all summer long, but they sing constantly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
I had a Red-eyed Vireo stop by my yard last week and pose for the camera. What a treat to see it down so low!
There's a saying...something like; Why would you want to save something you don't even know exists?
That article claimed there were many Red-eyed Vireos among the dead. That's why I used this species as the example.
I don't care if other things eat all the corpses or not. That was a mass die-off that should not have happened.
Your issue is making an issue about Wind Mills. Now if you were all in you may have a legitimate argument, discussion so toss out your political agenda and get real.Good Morning.

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