Obama takes on power plant emissions as part of climate plan

Jun 25, 2013 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Reuters

President Barack Obama will attempt to kick-start a global climate agenda on Tuesday with proposals including a plan to limit carbon emissions from existing U.S. power plants that is sure to face opposition from the coal industry, many business groups and Republican lawmakers.

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1,201 - 1,220 of 1,518 Comments Last updated Sep 27, 2013

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#1457 Sep 6, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
I personally may not stop them, but as more and more people are waking up, they can take a stand when the big wind baron comes to their town.
They can, but most won't because of the money & jobs wind turbines offer.

Why do you think the farmers welcome them on their land in the thumb.
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#1458 Sep 6, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
Trust me; if I had read your post and thought it worthy, I would have responded to it. I never seen it, never read it.
I posted that page's link which also lists your post that ignores my post about bird deaths as documented by the government in the Capital.
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
I see you're getting the picture. Tall structures are extremely deadly to birds!
You are not getting the picture.

I guess you have never been to W-DC to know that the building heights are controlled, i.e. no tall buildings. Mountain cliffs, redwoods are taller than the buildings in D.C.

Clearly, you have a very narrow political position regarding birds. Is that honest?
AnswersRus

Riverton, WY

#1459 Sep 6, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
The sheep crap on the birds backs?....or the sheep crap on each others backs?.... or the birds crap on the sheeps backs? Oh, never mind.
I bet they sometimes pull their hair out too.
No. Sheep do not have hair. They have wool.
AnswersRus

Riverton, WY

#1460 Sep 6, 2013
-Dont Panic- wrote:
<quoted text>
The wind turbine industry is probably the only energy industry who is voluntarily providing massive funding for research into their own environmental impacts and solutions to the problems that they cause without court order.
Instead of fighting their efforts, maybe it would be better to join their fight for a better tomorrow.
I will vote for that.
AnswersRus

Riverton, WY

#1461 Sep 6, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
If that's true, it's PR move because they too are aware of the potential for massive bird slaughters. Yet they still place those monstosities along major migratory routes.
http://www.halliburton.com/public/news/pubsda...
http://www.restorethegulf.gov/release/2010/06...
What would the correlation be between the migratory routes and the turbine locations?
AnswersRus

Riverton, WY

#1462 Sep 6, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
There is nothing wrong with caring about the environment or even hugging a tree now and then. We all SHOULD care about the environment and the quality of our air, water, etc.. But some people, like Sheeple here will fall for anything and everything they see and hear from government, most of whose members know NOTHING about the very environment they claim to want to protect. I care about the air and water, but I know we need oil to live comfortably and oil is here to be used. I say "drill, baby, drill" too, but I say do it safely. And green energy is only green if it does no harm to the environment....and that includes our wildlife.
I think I'll pack a lunch and take a drive. For some reason I feel like hugging tree #1984 today.
AnswersRus

Riverton, WY

#1463 Sep 6, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
In some cases, yes. The Chimney Swift I found in the building the other day was "only" one dead bird. But it was a totally senseless and needless death of such a unique little flying wonder. The five minutes it would have taken out of that guys time to make a phone call could have made a difference in its survival. I took a few minutes out of MY time to report him to the "higher ups." Maybe he'll think about that cruel, heartless death that bird suffered for three long days, flying in circles with no food or water, then falling to the floor unable to get airborn again, every time he sees a little birdie.
FYI- Chimney Swifts have such tiny feet, they can't perch on anything. They fly constantly, even while sleeping. The only time they stop flying is to nest or roost at night. They can only cling to a rough surface. Marvelous little birds!
http://www.birdspix.com/north-america/swifts-...
If it was just "some" dying at wind turbines, no I wouldn't squawk too much, because I know that all of our energy sources will cause "some" deaths. I am just as against human carelessness that causes oil spills too. There is NO EXCUSE for them.
I will go to bed happy tonight.
I learned that Chimney Swifts have tiny feet and fly most of the time because they can't grab onto many things. I wonder if they came from China and were priviledged birds so their feet were bound. Just wondering. Are they native?

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Level 1

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#1464 Sep 6, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not in the market for any property right now, but thanks for thinking of me.
But I WILL continue to lobby for wind turbines to be built on Tawas Bay. We've got the old dolphin platforms from the Albaster gypsum plant that would be perfect for wind turbines.
When I was looking for property, I looked at a parcel on Alabaster Road. I liked the area because being so close to the lake, it would have attracted alot of warblers and other migrants. Birding is great anywhere along the great lakes and the woodlots that border them during migration. The birds like to follow waterways like shorelines and rivers as they move north in spring or south in autumn.

Wind turbines in that area would be an ecological disaster. Even the wind companies know that. Not that they'd care.

I haven't even touched on the hawk migration and what would happen to them as they funnel into points that jut out into the water. Hawks will not cross open water, therefore would likely follow the shore and go right through your wind farm. Most of the hawks would be flying high enough to miss the turbines though because they tend to migrate on days following a cold front with winds out of the N, NE or NW. They ride the warm air termals up and sometimes soar high out of viewing distance.

Trouble could arise for them if rain or other bad weather sets in and brings them down. Or for those hawks that decide to break for a meal and hunt in the area. Turbines would look like great viewing perches for them with prey being in such an open area.

If you haven't gone to a hawk migration site in the fall, you can't know the awesome spectacle that is sometimes 100,000+ Broad-winged Hawks circling high above in a warm air thermal and watching as they soar almost out of view. Then all of the sudden, they stream off single file and you watch as they swiftly disappear, one by one, into the southern horizon.(You might want to check out the Hawkfest at Lake Erie Metropark-third weekend in Sept. I hear Whitefish Point is good too.)

Look Sheeple, I appreciate your stand on wanting clean air and all. So do I. But in my opinion, a healthy environment doesn't come from simply stopping the use of fossil fuels, or using more renewable energy.

For us to interupt, and possibly halt, the phenomenon of bird migration that's been occuring for millions of years would be a calamity. Wind farms, especially along major migration routes like great lakes shorelines, COULD decimate populations in an instant.

Kirtlands Warblers move through that area as well. Probably the majority of them do, considering they only nest in Jack Pine habitats in N MI. With a population of only about 10,000, they could be wiped out very quickly by a single wind farm. Much quicker than what oil drilling will do/has done. Ironically, oil drilling and gas wells has never hurt them. And we know there's plenty of drilling going on up there on their breeding grounds.

In addition, Bald Eagles winter in and near Tawas/Saginaw Bay by the dozens. We already know thousands of eagles are being slaughtered by other wind turbines.

All I'm saying is be careful what you wish for. And before doing too much lobbying, weigh ALL the pros and cons. A few wind turbines in Tawas will not stop any fossil fuel usage. Another needless slaughter would occur though. It's just a matter of when.

I'm hoping to get to Tawas Point and see what's moving through this weekend!
AnswersRus

Riverton, WY

#1465 Sep 6, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
I see you're getting the picture. Tall structures are extremely deadly to birds!
You have the gun pulling the trigger all by itself there.
The tall buildings are not deadly to birds. It is only a deadly situation when the birds fly into them.
I still say that it is easier to train the birds than get mankind to change his stripes. Birds can be trained to evade.
AnswersRus

Riverton, WY

#1466 Sep 6, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
That's your right and I don't blame you for not wanting to live near them. I feel the same way. That's why I didn't buy the cabin I looked at up north that had an oil well across the stream in the backyard. We would have been able to see it from the kitchen window in winter. Not that it did any harm. It was quiet (just a little creaking as it went up and down) and not very large. But as a "nature" photographer and bird watcher, I usually don't want "obstacles" in my scenery photos and I don't want noise interfering with the bird songs I'm trying hear.
The Screech Owls were in full voice last night. Four of them had a loud conversation right outside the garage, that kept up the whole game. Maybe they were Broncos fans and got excited. Then I heard the squirrel ... for a few seconds. Then the conversation changed and the word/notes became short and one syllable instead of the previous longer rolling screech/lilt word/notes.
AnswersRus

Riverton, WY

#1467 Sep 6, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
But unlike you I support oil & gas use and then refuse to live next to them; which is how most of the hypocrites in this country are.
On the other hand I'll gladly live next to a solar generating field or wind farm because I support their use.
Since when does the bird brain not support oil and gas? News to me Mr. Sheep.
Dee Dee Dee

Emmaus, PA

#1468 Sep 6, 2013
-Dont Panic- wrote:
<quoted text>
You could drill a well for water and install a septic field for sewage.
That is illegal. Violation of local, state and federal laws.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Level 1

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#1469 Sep 6, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
They can, but most won't because of the money & jobs wind turbines offer.
Why do you think the farmers welcome them on their land in the thumb.
The farmer I talked to said he welcomed the MONEY he received to put some on his land. At $10,000 a pop, he couldn't care less about some birdies.

I don't care about the jobs. They are only temporary and not worth the lives lost. They could have built anything to create jobs if that was a big concern.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Level 1

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#1470 Sep 6, 2013
SpaceBlues wrote:
<quoted text>I posted that page's link which also lists your post that ignores my post about bird deaths as documented by the government in the Capital.
<quoted text>You are not getting the picture.
I guess you have never been to W-DC to know that the building heights are controlled, i.e. no tall buildings. Mountain cliffs, redwoods are taller than the buildings in D.C.
Clearly, you have a very narrow political position regarding birds. Is that honest?
Homes and businesses kill birds by the millions all over the country. Usually, it's the windows that reflect the sky and the trees that the birds see. I can't control that. I would lobby to have all windows covered with screens, but that's not what this thread is about. I would lobby to have all cats be indoors. But again, that's not what this thread is about.

I often wondered about the Redwoods. Could it be that birds hear/see/feel the leaves/needles rustling on trees as they approach? Or sense the coolness and oxygen being released? Maybe they fly higher than the trees?

What would happen if turbines were taller than the Redwoods? What would birds be more likey to have a deadly collision with?
AnswersRus

Riverton, WY

#1471 Sep 6, 2013
Dee Dee Dee wrote:
<quoted text>
That is illegal. Violation of local, state and federal laws.
Incorrect.
There is no federal law that says I can nnot crill a water well on my own property. There is no state nor local law that states that either.
Cite your proof. You say these prohibition laws exist ... prove it.
AnswersRus

Riverton, WY

#1472 Sep 6, 2013
^ not drill^
stupid finger and old keyboard anyway

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Level 1

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#1473 Sep 6, 2013
SpaceBlues wrote:
<quoted text>I posted that page's link which also lists your post that ignores my post about bird deaths as documented by the government in the Capital.
<quoted text>You are not getting the picture.
I guess you have never been to W-DC to know that the building heights are controlled, i.e. no tall buildings. Mountain cliffs, redwoods are taller than the buildings in D.C.
Clearly, you have a very narrow political position regarding birds. Is that honest?
BTW, birds are not a "political position" with me. They are living, breathing creatures with families- just like we are. Their lives matter!
AnswersRus

Riverton, WY

#1474 Sep 6, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
The farmer I talked to said he welcomed the MONEY he received to put some on his land. At $10,000 a pop, he couldn't care less about some birdies.
I don't care about the jobs. They are only temporary and not worth the lives lost. They could have built anything to create jobs if that was a big concern.
See? Man's nature will remain a constant.
Start looking for solutions in the bird world. Spend some time putting your grey matter to work on inventing new ways to alert the birds instead of making enemies of your fellow man by telling them no. It is their land. Correct?
AnswersRus

Riverton, WY

#1475 Sep 6, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
The farmer I talked to said he welcomed the MONEY he received to put some on his land. At $10,000 a pop, he couldn't care less about some birdies.
I don't care about the jobs. They are only temporary and not worth the lives lost. They could have built anything to create jobs if that was a big concern.
You do not care about jobs?
Tilting at windmills much?

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Level 1

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#1477 Sep 6, 2013
AnswersRus wrote:
<quoted text>
What would the correlation be between the migratory routes and the turbine locations?
Birds love places where strong winds will help them along on their strenuous journey of thousands of miles. Wind companies love places with strong winds.

But sometimes that makes not one damn bit of difference. Such as the 10,000 Lapland Longspurs that were killed at a tower in Kansas in December 1998.

And the 13,000 killed at a radio tower in Wisconsin.
and, and, and..........

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