Obama takes on power plant emissions ...

Obama takes on power plant emissions as part of climate plan

There are 1518 comments on the Reuters story from Jun 25, 2013, titled Obama takes on power plant emissions as part of climate plan. In it, Reuters reports that:

President Barack Obama will attempt to kick-start a global climate agenda on Tuesday with proposals including a plan to limit carbon emissions from existing U.S. power plants that is sure to face opposition from the coal industry, many business groups and Republican lawmakers.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Reuters.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#1025 Aug 20, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
What a BEAUTIFUL, GRACEFUL bird........at one time!
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdeling...
I find this inexcusable! Wind turbines need to all come down!! NOW!!
Find a way to use wind power that doesn't kill wildlife and I'll be all for it.
Everything means of generating electricity kills wildlife.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#1026 Aug 20, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
So are you! I think it is your disdain for Big Oil that is blinding you to the truth!! This should make everyone's stomach turn:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdeling...
This should make everyone IRATE!
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/12/17/us...
Keep whining about a dead birdie here or there.

I'll spare you the photos of all the marine life killed in oil spills and the millions of people who die every year from the effects of fossil fuel pollution.

Ever see someone die from a pollution induced asthma attack? I have, and it's a hell of a lot more traumatic than seeing a dead bird.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#1027 Aug 20, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
You are exactly right MDC.
WTS is so concerned about those 3-4 million human deaths that he quotes, but doesn't know whether those same people would have died anyway, even if we didn't use any fossil fuels.
Everyone & everything dies eventually, including your little birdies.

For all you know all those dead birds committed suicide because they were old or terminal and ready to die.

Bottom line, you obviously value the life of a bird over a human.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Level 1

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#1028 Aug 20, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
".....it was claimed......"
Enough said.
At least I provide documentation, articles and other information for people to read for themselves. You yourself "makes the claim" that 3-4 million people die each year from fossil fuels. Then you "make the claim" that you read it in scientific journals, yet don't provide links to them. No offense, but you are just some anonymous Topix poster. You could have a fourth grade education for all we know.
SpaceBlues

United States

#1029 Aug 20, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>To another:

At least I provide documentation, articles and other information for people to read for themselves. You yourself "makes the claim" that 3-4 million people die each year from fossil fuels. Then you "make the claim" that you read it in scientific journals, yet don't provide links to them. No offense, but you are just some anonymous Topix poster. You could have a fourth grade education for all we know.
That must your level because you don't remember that I posted documentation.

Could it be dementia that you ignore the dialogs and resume repeats?

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Level 1

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#1030 Aug 20, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Gladly.
In fact I've been trying to get them to build a wind farm here on Tawas Bay where the wind almost constantly blows.
Btw, many wind turbines are put on farmers land who willingly leased it out to the wind companies.
Of course farmers lease their land. People will do anything for a buck...or $10,000 bucks. I know one farmer who leases his land for turbines. He told me his only concern is the money he makes.

As far as a wind mill on the bay; You know what they say about being careful what you wish for. Besides, I think the birders are getting mobilized to start fighting this shit, especially at the birding hotspots like Tawas Point and Magee Marsh. At one time, many of them were naïve like you. But they are slowly waking up to the grim reality of "green" energy. It's killing the very birds we are trying to save. Birds that are supposed to be federally protected. And we're spreading the word.

If you've never gone bird watching, you will never have a clue.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Level 1

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#1031 Aug 20, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope, not a "fact" at all; just another scare tactic pushed by fossil fuel boosters.
Ask the people who know. The wind doesn't ALWAYS blow. If there isn't a back up of some sort (gas or oil) you may be powerless.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Level 1

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#1032 Aug 20, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope, not true either.
You can't save people by supporting fossil fuels.
People don't NEED to be saved. They can take care of themselves. Out of 400 million people in this country, more than 3-4 million should be dying if fossil fuels were that deadly. It's more likely they are dying from bad genes, smoking, what we're injecting into the factory farmed animals we eat or spraying on our crops to kill insects.(Insects that little birdies could eat IF they weren't declining so rapidly.)

Innocent little birdies don't have a voice or a clue what we are doing to THEIR skies.

As the sole caretakers of this planet, it is OUR responsibility and our duty to take care of and conserve our natural resources. So far we've sucked at it. But it isn't too late for lots of species. How stupid are we if we keep "sucking?"

Jumping in hastily into wind farms all over the country because some dude that got elected president says we should is utter stupidity. He might have a law degree, but he knows nothing about nature.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Level 1

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#1033 Aug 20, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Approximately 70,000 wind turbines (5 MW ea) would generate approximately 350 GW and replace 100% of the coal fired electric plants in the US.
With 2,992 counties in the US, that would be about 24 wind turbines per county. Keep in mind that some counties in the US are bigger than all of the smaller east coast states combined.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/04/...
The updated number of cell towers in this country is now 176,000 as of July 19, 2012.

If 7 million birds were dying each year at the old number of 84,000 towers over a year ago, it is most likely more than double that number now. So.....If 15 million birds die at 176,000 cell towers each year, how many birds will likely die at 70,000 wind turbines? Keep in mind that wind turbines have a much greater surface area in which a bird could strike. And if the bird happens to miss the turbine, a fast spinning blade could still take it out.(The blade tips can move at almost 200mph. Yes, it's true!)

Also keep in mind that if every county has a dozen turbines, birds migrating, where ever they happen to be in the country, could potentially be lured to them by the lighting- possibly in search of insects, or because the lights confuse them.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Level 1

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#1034 Aug 20, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Everything means of generating electricity kills wildlife.
Some more than others. Wind turbines so far seems to be the worst....or "potentially" the worst once more and more monstrosities are built.

Regarding oil spills.... there is no reason to ever have a spill like some of them we've seen. Some leakage is normal, and expected. Even Mother Nature leaks oil into the water and ground. Responsible people, strict regulations and other safety measures can be taken to solve the spill problem.

I also wouldn't put it past someone who has a vested interest in a certain area to cause a disastrous oil spill simply to get the public against oil.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Level 1

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#1035 Aug 20, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Keep whining about a dead birdie here or there.
I'll spare you the photos of all the marine life killed in oil spills and the millions of people who die every year from the effects of fossil fuel pollution.
Ever see someone die from a pollution induced asthma attack? I have, and it's a hell of a lot more traumatic than seeing a dead bird.
Asthma attacks are caused by a lot of things. Allergies, smoke, mold, weather, humidity, cleaners, paints, obesity, manner of birth, stress, genes.......They do give mention to "pollution" but not on the scale you make it out to be.

The person you saw die would have died regardless of how many wind turbines grace the skies.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/info/asthma/w...

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Level 1

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#1036 Aug 20, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Everyone & everything dies eventually, including your little birdies.
For all you know all those dead birds committed suicide because they were old or terminal and ready to die.
Bottom line, you obviously value the life of a bird over a human.
No. I value the life of millions of beautiful birds who are innocent victims of "some" humans' stupidity. I would gladly see the earth be rid of burning oil and gas, but not if it means a different kind of calamity. Until we find a truly "clean" energy source, I'd rather drill SAFELY. It uses less land, provides more energy and if done properly, involves minimal risk.

BTW, I was in your neck of the woods this past weekend. Ate at the new Harvest Restaurant by Sand Lake. The tenderloin dinner is to die for! Wrapped in bacon- YUM! Oh yeah, The smell of pine in the air couldn't have been fresher!

I think I'll go bird watching at the point next week. There should be some warblers moving through now. Gotta photograph them while they still exist.

Have you ever tried to identify warblers in the fall? They aren't called the "confusing fall warblers" for nothing!

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Level 1

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#1037 Aug 20, 2013
SpaceBlues wrote:
<quoted text>That must your level because you don't remember that I posted documentation.
Could it be dementia that you ignore the dialogs and resume repeats?
I was referring to WTS. He doesn't provide anything to back up his claims.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#1038 Aug 20, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
At least I provide documentation, articles and other information for people to read for themselves. You yourself "makes the claim" that 3-4 million people die each year from fossil fuels. Then you "make the claim" that you read it in scientific journals, yet don't provide links to them. No offense, but you are just some anonymous Topix poster. You could have a fourth grade education for all we know.
No one is forcing you to read anything I post.

The choice is yours.

I don't provide links because there's this thing called Google where you can independently verify any claim made by anyone; even a 4th grader.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#1039 Aug 20, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course farmers lease their land. People will do anything for a buck...or $10,000 bucks. I know one farmer who leases his land for turbines. He told me his only concern is the money he makes.
As far as a wind mill on the bay; You know what they say about being careful what you wish for. Besides, I think the birders are getting mobilized to start fighting this shit, especially at the birding hotspots like Tawas Point and Magee Marsh. At one time, many of them were naïve like you. But they are slowly waking up to the grim reality of "green" energy. It's killing the very birds we are trying to save. Birds that are supposed to be federally protected. And we're spreading the word.
If you've never gone bird watching, you will never have a clue.
It's their land, they can do what they wish with it.

I'd welcome wind turbines as far as the eye can see if I know it is lessening our use of fossil fuels.

I watch birdies every day; even saw a wayward Snowy Owl last year.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#1040 Aug 20, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
Ask the people who know. The wind doesn't ALWAYS blow. If there isn't a back up of some sort (gas or oil) you may be powerless.
Which is why we need a combination of green energy technology as our primary source of power generation, backed by the remaining fossil fuels only if absolutely necessary.

But definitely not coal in any form.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#1041 Aug 20, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
People don't NEED to be saved. They can take care of themselves. Out of 400 million people in this country, more than 3-4 million should be dying if fossil fuels were that deadly. It's more likely they are dying from bad genes, smoking, what we're injecting into the factory farmed animals we eat or spraying on our crops to kill insects.(Insects that little birdies could eat IF they weren't declining so rapidly.)
Innocent little birdies don't have a voice or a clue what we are doing to THEIR skies.
As the sole caretakers of this planet, it is OUR responsibility and our duty to take care of and conserve our natural resources. So far we've sucked at it. But it isn't too late for lots of species. How stupid are we if we keep "sucking?"
Jumping in hastily into wind farms all over the country because some dude that got elected president says we should is utter stupidity. He might have a law degree, but he knows nothing about nature.
The WHO disagrees. I'll take their opinion & research data over an anonymous topix poster.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#1042 Aug 20, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/04/...
The updated number of cell towers in this country is now 176,000 as of July 19, 2012.
If 7 million birds were dying each year at the old number of 84,000 towers over a year ago, it is most likely more than double that number now. So.....If 15 million birds die at 176,000 cell towers each year, how many birds will likely die at 70,000 wind turbines? Keep in mind that wind turbines have a much greater surface area in which a bird could strike. And if the bird happens to miss the turbine, a fast spinning blade could still take it out.(The blade tips can move at almost 200mph. Yes, it's true!)
Also keep in mind that if every county has a dozen turbines, birds migrating, where ever they happen to be in the country, could potentially be lured to them by the lighting- possibly in search of insects, or because the lights confuse them.
I can live with that if it means we can shut down every coal plant in the country.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#1043 Aug 20, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
I also wouldn't put it past someone who has a vested interest in a certain area to cause a disastrous oil spill simply to get the public against oil.
Yep, that pretty much confirms you're a nutcase.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#1044 Aug 20, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
Asthma attacks are caused by a lot of things. Allergies, smoke, mold, weather, humidity, cleaners, paints, obesity, manner of birth, stress, genes.......They do give mention to "pollution" but not on the scale you make it out to be.
The person you saw die would have died regardless of how many wind turbines grace the skies.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/info/asthma/w...
It's not my scale, rather data & research from the WHO.

And the birds you see dead would die regardless of whether there are wind turbines or not.

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