Obama takes on power plant emissions as part of climate plan

Jun 25, 2013 Full story: Reuters 1,518

President Barack Obama will attempt to kick-start a global climate agenda on Tuesday with proposals including a plan to limit carbon emissions from existing U.S. power plants that is sure to face opposition from the coal industry, many business groups and Republican lawmakers.

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SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#733 Aug 3, 2013
A la Love Canal.
serfs up

Ormond Beach, FL

#734 Aug 3, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Without govt regulation you wouldn't be able to go outside in any major metro area without a gas mask with your own O2 supply. Rivers & lakes would be devoid of life and taking a swim would result in your skin peeling off like an acid bath. There would be no topsoil left to grow crops, and the subsoil would be so polluted it wouldn't be able to support life of any kind.
Without govt regulation big business would have rendered our country uninhabitable a decade ago.
Bwhahahaaaaaaaaaaahhhaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aa!

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#735 Aug 3, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
How does the US banning all imported oil- including from OPEC countries- play right into their hand?
It adds government controls to the economy, to destroy the free market and drive up prices. OPEC wants higher prices.

Besides, OPEC can't lose since one barrel of oil is identical to another; they'll just trade through a middle man, adding more to the cost of oil. Oil is a commodity; there's no way to stop its use because everyone needs it to survive.

WTS wants higher oil prices, just like OPEC. He's on their side, not ours.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#736 Aug 4, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>It adds government controls to the economy, to destroy the free market and drive up prices. OPEC wants higher prices.
Besides, OPEC can't lose since one barrel of oil is identical to another; they'll just trade through a middle man, adding more to the cost of oil. Oil is a commodity; there's no way to stop its use because everyone needs it to survive.
WTS wants higher oil prices, just like OPEC. He's on their side, not ours.
No one needs oil to survive.

Oil prices are going higher regardless of what you or I want.

US oil & gas companies want higher oil prices as well as the millions of people they employ because it benefits their bottom line. So by your logic they're all on the side of OPEC as well.

I personally don't care what the price of oil is, whether it's $1/barrel or $1000/barrel. Though I do love listening to the sheeple complain about the "high" price of gas as they drive their 10mpg SUV.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#737 Aug 4, 2013
Gas costs $3.11 in Mexico: of course government influences energy and fuel prices.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#739 Aug 4, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
Gas costs $3.11 in Mexico: of course government influences energy and fuel prices.
So feel free to move to Mexico.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#740 Aug 5, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
No one needs oil to survive.
Our economy is built on oil; take a look at the loading dock of your local stores for proof. Without oil, we couldn't travel, move our goods, or generate electricity as inexpensively.

.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
Oil prices are going higher regardless of what you or I want.
Unless supply goes up or demand goes down, oil prices will go higher. Thanks to new technology improving production, oil prices fall.

.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
US oil & gas companies want higher oil prices as well as the millions of people they employ because it benefits their bottom line. So by your logic they're all on the side of OPEC as well.
That's untrue; oil and gas companies can profit even when the price of oil and gas falls. Apple doesn't want higher iPhone prices and neither should our government encourage higher fossil fuel prices.

.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
I personally don't care what the price of oil is, whether it's $1/barrel or $1000/barrel. Though I do love listening to the sheeple complain about the "high" price of gas as they drive their 10mpg SUV.
If you care about the price of oil, don't follow WTS's energy policy schemes.
Dee Dee Dee

Emmaus, PA

#741 Aug 5, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
No one needs oil to survive.
Oil prices are going higher regardless of what you or I want.
US oil & gas companies want higher oil prices as well as the millions of people they employ because it benefits their bottom line. So by your logic they're all on the side of OPEC as well.
I personally don't care what the price of oil is, whether it's $1/barrel or $1000/barrel. Though I do love listening to the sheeple complain about the "high" price of gas as they drive their 10mpg SUV.
Another ignorant claim from the king of ignorance. Go to any medical facility and ask them if there are any patients that need a device made of plastic (oil) to survive. Add to the devices made of plastic the long list of medicines that are petroleum based and you will see that millions of people are dependent on oil to survive.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#742 Aug 5, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Our economy is built on oil; take a look at the loading dock of your local stores for proof. Without oil, we couldn't travel, move our goods, or generate electricity as inexpensively.
.
<quoted text>Unless supply goes up or demand goes down, oil prices will go higher. Thanks to new technology improving production, oil prices fall.
.
<quoted text>That's untrue; oil and gas companies can profit even when the price of oil and gas falls. Apple doesn't want higher iPhone prices and neither should our government encourage higher fossil fuel prices.
.
<quoted text>If you care about the price of oil, don't follow WTS's energy policy schemes.
You said we can't survive without oil. We can & we did for thousands of years and built thriving societies. We can & will again when the cheap oil runs out.

Supply going up doesn't decrease prices- only falling demand decreases prices.

Oil & gas companies can still make BILLIONS in profit right now even if they sold gas for $1/gallon. So why don't they? Because they know they can profit EVEN MORE at $3.50-$4/gal.

If you care about the future of our society, don't follow the oil & gas barons energy policy schemes.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#743 Aug 5, 2013
Dee Dee Dee wrote:
<quoted text>
Another ignorant claim from the king of ignorance. Go to any medical facility and ask them if there are any patients that need a device made of plastic (oil) to survive. Add to the devices made of plastic the long list of medicines that are petroleum based and you will see that millions of people are dependent on oil to survive.
Humanity survived for thousands of years without plastics and petroleum based meds.

We can & will have to do it again.

The difference is whether we choose to do it on our time table by switching now to wind & solar & other renewable sources for our power generation and transportation needs- thereby saving what oil we have for those products which CAN'T be easily replaced- or we wait until the supply of oil becomes so tight that nations are literally going to war over every oil tanker & pipeline.

Unfortunately the sheeple never think that far ahead, and all they want is their $1/gal gas to put in their 10mpg SUV to drive 50 miles to the store just to get a gallon of milk in a plastic jug.

The sheeple of this nation are headed for the cliff at a full gallop.

Giddyup!
Dee Dee Dee

Emmaus, PA

#745 Aug 5, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Humanity survived for thousands of years without plastics and petroleum based meds.
We can & will have to do it again.
The difference is whether we choose to do it on our time table by switching now to wind & solar & other renewable sources for our power generation and transportation needs- thereby saving what oil we have for those products which CAN'T be easily replaced- or we wait until the supply of oil becomes so tight that nations are literally going to war over every oil tanker & pipeline.
Unfortunately the sheeple never think that far ahead, and all they want is their $1/gal gas to put in their 10mpg SUV to drive 50 miles to the store just to get a gallon of milk in a plastic jug.
The sheeple of this nation are headed for the cliff at a full gallop.
Giddyup!
Tell you what. Next time you have a medical emergency do your part and refuse and treatment that requires the use of oil based products.

“Liberal Teachers ruin Kids”

Level 8

Since: Mar 09

Paradise Valley Arizona

#746 Aug 5, 2013
Indeed, if a liberal see's a cooling tower and watch's water vapor rising...They believe its pollution.

Liberals are sad folks.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#747 Aug 5, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
You said we can't survive without oil. We can & we did for thousands of years and built thriving societies. We can & will again when the cheap oil runs out.
There weren't as many of us before oil, we didn't live as long or have as much free time back then either. D.D.D. made a good point about the billions of us who depend on modern medicine made from fossil fuel products.

.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
Supply going up doesn't decrease prices- only falling demand decreases prices.
I don't think WTS understands economics; we've gone over this before. Price is determined by two factors; supply AND demand.

.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
Oil & gas companies can still make BILLIONS in profit right now even if they sold gas for $1/gallon.
This proves it; WTS believes if you sell a product for less than it costs you to make, there's still a profit. He's no businessman; maybe he works for Congress's budget office.

.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
So why don't they? Because they know they can profit EVEN MORE at $3.50-$4/gal.
Did you know many Americans living on the border drive to Mexico to buy gasoline? Customers buy where the price is low.

.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
If you care about the future of our society, don't follow the oil & gas barons energy policy schemes.
...President Obama's favorite 1-percenter, Warren Buffett, made a good investment when he bought BNSF in 2010 for $26.5 billion. With the explosive development of the Bakken shale formation, its oil riches are shipped south on Buffett's railroad in dangerous tank cars instead of a proposed link to the stalled Keystone XL pipeline.

"The evidence is so overwhelming that railroads are far less safe than pipelines," says Charles Ebinger, director of the Brookings Institution's energy security initiative.
...

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/0709...
Dee Dee Dee

Emmaus, PA

#748 Aug 5, 2013
Now come on, Sheeple don't want to hear facts.
Besara

Des Moines, IA

#749 Aug 5, 2013
SpaceBlues wrote:
A la Love Canal.
So now we're talking about your rear end??

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#750 Aug 5, 2013
Dee Dee Dee wrote:
<quoted text>
Tell you what. Next time you have a medical emergency do your part and refuse and treatment that requires the use of oil based products.
Obviously you have trouble comprehending English just like most sheeple.

Re-read my post. I said we should be saving our oil for products which can't be easily replaced- ie plastic based medical equipment & petroleum based meds.

We should NOT be wasting what little oil we have on internal combustion engines.

Giddyup!

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#751 Aug 5, 2013
Dee Dee Dee wrote:
Now come on, Sheeple don't want to hear facts.
You're correct, the sheeple don't want to hear the facts. They just want to hear that it's okay to waste a finite resource in their gas tanks.

The sheeple actually drive their car to a racetrack where they then watch others drive in circles for hours. Then they bitch about how much gas costs when they fill up on the way home.....

Giddyup!!

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#752 Aug 5, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>I don't think WTS understands economics; we've gone over this before. Price is determined by two factors; supply AND demand.
.
<quoted text>This proves it; WTS believes if you sell a product for less than it costs you to make, there's still a profit. He's no businessman; maybe he works for Congress's budget office.
Nope, doesn't work that way with oil/gas, otherwise gas prices would have FALLEN with the record level of oil production we've had.

The oil & gas barons STILL make a profit at just $1/gal for gas because it costs them less than $1 to produce a gallon of gas.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#753 Aug 6, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
Nope, doesn't work that way with oil/gas, otherwise gas prices would have FALLEN with the record level of oil production we've had.
WTS has conceded worldwide demand for oil and gas is increasing, that's the other side of the supply/demand function. As demand increases, prices increase unless supply increases at the same pace.

.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
The oil & gas barons STILL make a profit at just $1/gal for gas because it costs them less than $1 to produce a gallon of gas.
This is contradicted by the facts:

Crude oil cost: 66%($2.40/gallon)
Refining cost: 12%($0.43/gallon)
Marketing and distribution cost: 11%($0.40/gallon)

I'm still waiting for WTS to explain how anyone can make a profit if cost exceed price.
http://www.eia.gov/petroleum/gasdiesel/

also
http://www.cga.ct.gov/2012/rpt/2012-R-0445.ht...

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#754 Aug 6, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>WTS has conceded worldwide demand for oil and gas is increasing, that's the other side of the supply/demand function. As demand increases, prices increase unless supply increases at the same pace.
.
<quoted text>This is contradicted by the facts:
Crude oil cost: 66%($2.40/gallon)
Refining cost: 12%($0.43/gallon)
Marketing and distribution cost: 11%($0.40/gallon)
I'm still waiting for WTS to explain how anyone can make a profit if cost exceed price.
http://www.eia.gov/petroleum/gasdiesel/
also
http://www.cga.ct.gov/2012/rpt/2012-R-0445.ht...
Yes, supply HAS been increasing and keeping pace with demand, and yet gas prices CONTINUE to rise.

No, those percentages are the cost distribution of drilling & refining & marketing & distribution per gallon regardless of the price of a single gallon. You're assuming it costs 43 cents to refine a gallon of gas, when in reality the price to refine a single gallon is a fixed cost regardless of the final price they charge for that same gallon of gas.

Or are you claiming that if the price of gas goes to $5/gal, their cost to refine a single gallon goes up by the same percentage? It costs a fixed amount to refine a gallon of gas, whether they sell that gallon of gas for $1 or $100 dollars.

Since we don't know the ACTUAL cost to refine a single gallon of gas or extract a single barrel of oil or marketing & distribution (trade secrets), we don't know exactly how much profit the oil & gas barons are making off a gallon of gas.

So assuming your numbers are correct, if gas was $1/gal, each gallon of gas produced would cost the oil & gas barons 66 cents in crude oil costs, 12 cents in refining costs, and 11 cents in marketing/distribution costs.

So the total cost to the oil & gas barons would be 89 cents per gallon.

Since they would be charging $1/gal, they STILL make a profit of 11 cents per gallon.

Yep, the oil & gas barons would STILL make BILLIONS in profits even if they started charging only $1/gal for gas immediately.

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