Obama takes on power plant emissions ...

Obama takes on power plant emissions as part of climate plan

There are 1518 comments on the Reuters story from Jun 25, 2013, titled Obama takes on power plant emissions as part of climate plan. In it, Reuters reports that:

President Barack Obama will attempt to kick-start a global climate agenda on Tuesday with proposals including a plan to limit carbon emissions from existing U.S. power plants that is sure to face opposition from the coal industry, many business groups and Republican lawmakers.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Reuters.

Huh

Faribault, MN

#693 Jul 31, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
I demand my gas to be $1.25 a gallon. And would be if we could increase supply.
NEVER....grow up stupid...Oil companies wont give up there big profits to give you oil at that price.....SUPPLY IS NOT PROBLEM WE HAVE PLENTY OF SUPPLY ...

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#694 Jul 31, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
WOW! That's ALOT of gas! At that rate the earth will run out of gas by Saturday. I think I'll get myself a horse. No wait, if I do, the global warming freaks will claim horse gas is causing the earth to warm and try to ban hay growing.
Actually you'd be better off getting oxen....

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#695 Jul 31, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
I demand my gas to be $1.25 a gallon. And would be if we could increase supply.
Well you just keep on demanding, I'm sure the oil & gas barons will listen.

Increasing supply won't bring down prices; only decreasing demand will do that.

Their is simply no reason for the oil & gas barons to lower the price of gas as long as the sheeple line up around the block for the chance to pay $3.50/gal.

Would YOU lower the price of a product you sell if you can sell every unit you can make at a higher price?

Neither will the oil & gas barons.

But keep dreaming.....

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#696 Jul 31, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
"Should we go back to burning trees & coal in our homes just because we haven't found the perfectly clean energy source?"
Nope. I'm content with my natural gas. Burning trees is okay too, as long as they aren't cut down in the spring and summer while the birds are nesting in them.:)
If you cut down all the trees in the fall & winter, then where will your birdies nest next spring & summer?

Hmmmm, shortsighted as usual.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#697 Jul 31, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you're all naÔve. Gas prices have nothing to do with supply and demand, OR saving the environment.
It has everything to do with the government's agenda to make this country like Europe. They want us all in small cars- IF any cars at all. Just look at all the roundabouts they're constructing- even in areas that had perfectly fine on/off ramps that didn't need repair or change. Also look at how small the parking spaces are when they repaint parking lots.
The govt doesn't set the price of gas.

The oil & gas barons will charge the maximum amount per gallon they can as long as the demand is there. Supply is irrelevant- it's all about demand, and currently the sheeple are demanding $3.50-$4/gal gas.

Btw, roundabouts cut down the number of accidents and especially the number of fatal accidents at intersections.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#698 Jul 31, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
All we need to do is figure out a way to safely dispose of the waste, or even use it somehow, and nuclear is the way to go.
It can't be all that bad. Where do you think those crazy bird watchers go in the winter to see lots of birds? Yep, nuclear power plants. The open water is a haven for waterfowl and gulls in areas where everything else is frozen. I have never birded one, but I know lots of people who have. The birds there are alive and healthy.
When you come up with the magical solution to safely dispose of a product which will be hazardous for thousands of years, please let the DOE know.
Huh

Faribault, MN

#699 Jul 31, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
The govt doesn't set the price of gas.
The oil & gas barons will charge the maximum amount per gallon they can as long as the demand is there. Supply is irrelevant- it's all about demand, and currently the sheeple are demanding $3.50-$4/gal gas.
Btw, roundabouts cut down the number of accidents and especially the number of fatal accidents at intersections.
They don't get it...Supply is not the problem...ANYONE SEE ANY GAS STATION WITHOUT GAS IN TANKS?????????? Nope then no supply problem//////IDIOTS.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#700 Jul 31, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
BTW, I don't have a problem with your little wind mill. I have a problem with the giant monstrosity turbines being built on wind farms all over the country.
Actually I agree that individual power generation would be the best solution. Every property should have their own windmill and every rooftop in the country should be covered with solar capturing roofing materials.

If we did that we could shut down every coal fired power plant in the nation.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#701 Jul 31, 2013
Huh wrote:
<quoted text>
They don't get it...Supply is not the problem...ANYONE SEE ANY GAS STATION WITHOUT GAS IN TANKS?????????? Nope then no supply problem//////IDIOTS.
For now.

But competition from the billions of people in India & China who are just now starting to buy autos and using oil & gas at the rate of a 1st world nation means supply shortfalls WILL happen in the near future.

Those who think gas is "too expensive" now haven't seen anything yet.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#702 Jul 31, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
Let's not go there again. How would you like Chinese troops marching down American streets?(Even if they claim to be here keeping the peace and helping us)?
If they behaved like the USA and our government was like Saddam Hussein; I'd waive the Chinese flag and strew flowers on their way out of gratitude.

.
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
There you go- those people see our troops on THEIR land and it pisses them off- rightfully so. THIS breeds terrorists! Our Constitution does NOT allow us to rule the world- it simply governs this country here on our soil.
Read the words of our founders about getting mixed up in others affairs. It's better to just set a good example than to go beating up people who have different beliefs and lifestyles.
I've met Iraqis, they hated Hussein more than I did. We saved the Iraqi people and left like we promised. I just hope, we didn't leave too soon.
Huh

Faribault, MN

#703 Jul 31, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>If they behaved like the USA and our government was like Saddam Hussein; I'd waive the Chinese flag and strew flowers on their way out of gratitude.
.
<quoted text>I've met Iraqis, they hated Hussein more than I did. We saved the Iraqi people and left like we promised. I just hope, we didn't leave too soon.
So your a traitor. I knew it. We saved Iraq????? And it only cost us 5-7 trillion...What a deal...NOT.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#704 Jul 31, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
Gas prices are falling? Since when? We've been at $3.75-$4/gal for over a year.
The dollar's value has been falling, our government is in world record debt and is printing money at an unprecedented rate. The Federal Reserve Bank is creating a stock market bubble with Quantitative Easing.

Gas prices always rise in the summer vacation season, because of increased demand.

.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
Again, the oil & gas barons control the supply.
Just who are the barons? Do you have a list of names? If I own stock in BP, does that make me a baron too? If a union or 401k owns stock in oil and gas production, do the holders become barons or is it an inherited title?

.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
No matter how much supply they have, they can maintain gas prices at the current $4/gal level because the DEMAND is there.
Until competition takes away their customers; market forces define prices, not the enemies of the working class. Marx is dead, so are his mistaken theories.

.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
ONLY if demand falls will they lower prices to entice people back to buying more.
WTS admits, increasing supply (by lowering prices) increases demand; why can't he understand decreasing supply (by taxation, regulation and a government policy designed to create poverty and scarcity, conservation means getting by with less) raises prices?

He's on the side of OPEC and the barons, his policies lead to high fossil fuel prices. He thinks that's a good thing.

.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
Since there are no competitors in the oil/gas industry- just collusion & price fixing- the normal supply & demand doesn't apply.
Since market efficiency creates a very low profit return, prices can't fluctuate more than a few cents within a state. From state to state, where policies, taxes, mandates and physical conditions differ, prices fluctuate greatly. Gas costs $4.36 in Hawaii but only $3.33 in South Carolina.
http://money.cnn.com/news/storysupplement/eco...

The barons aren't setting prices, government is, with mismanagement and folly.

.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
If there were true competition, you'd see one gas station having a 50cent per gallon sale for the weekend, trying to get the business from their "competitors"- knowing they can make up the difference in volume, just like every other business does. Instead what we see is every gas station in town raising their prices within a penny of each other just before every summer weekend. That's collusion. There have also been cases of independent gas stations being sued by the corporate brands if they try to sell gas more than a dime cheaper than them. Nope, no free market, no supply & demand, no competition- just collusion & price fixing.
WTS is on OPEC's side, he believes in setting the price of oil. I'm on the side of freedom and rationality; I want the market to set the price. This is a political battle; stopping the Democratic Party from market interference.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#705 Jul 31, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>The dollar's value has been falling, our government is in world record debt and is printing money at an unprecedented rate. The Federal Reserve Bank is creating a stock market bubble with Quantitative Easing.
Gas prices always rise in the summer vacation season, because of increased demand.
.
<quoted text>Just who are the barons? Do you have a list of names? If I own stock in BP, does that make me a baron too? If a union or 401k owns stock in oil and gas production, do the holders become barons or is it an inherited title?
.
<quoted text>Until competition takes away their customers; market forces define prices, not the enemies of the working class. Marx is dead, so are his mistaken theories.
.
<quoted text>WTS admits, increasing supply (by lowering prices) increases demand; why can't he understand decreasing supply (by taxation, regulation and a government policy designed to create poverty and scarcity, conservation means getting by with less) raises prices?
He's on the side of OPEC and the barons, his policies lead to high fossil fuel prices. He thinks that's a good thing.
.
<quoted text>Since market efficiency creates a very low profit return, prices can't fluctuate more than a few cents within a state. From state to state, where policies, taxes, mandates and physical conditions differ, prices fluctuate greatly. Gas costs $4.36 in Hawaii but only $3.33 in South Carolina.
http://money.cnn.com/news/storysupplement/eco...
The barons aren't setting prices, government is, with mismanagement and folly.
.
<quoted text>WTS is on OPEC's side, he believes in setting the price of oil. I'm on the side of freedom and rationality; I want the market to set the price. This is a political battle; stopping the Democratic Party from market interference.
So show me the official govt price list for gas sold in Michigan?

Oh that's right, the govt doesn't set gas prices- the oil & gas barons do.

Supply currently has no effect on prices, only demand.

When the sheeple demand more gas, the oil & gas barons raise the price at the pumps regardless of how much supply they have on hand.

When the sheeple stop demanding gas at the current price, the oil & gas barons will lower the prices a bit to entire them to buy their product again.

Gas prices go down only when demand goes down.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#706 Jul 31, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
So show me the official govt price list for gas sold in Michigan?
The government doesn't have an official list, it tracks gas prices. To answer your question, the average price is $3.70 a gallon in Michigan now.
[ibid]

.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
Oh that's right, the govt doesn't set gas prices- the oil & gas barons do.
The producers only do half the work, consumers set the other half of the equation. You are as much the fossil fuel market as those who find, drill, transport and refine fossil fuel into energy or transportation fuel. We are all in this together; just that I want to increase supply to reduce prices and WTS wants the opposite.

.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
Supply currently has no effect on prices, only demand.
If supply increases; if the baron of Michcigan's oil sees the baron of Ohio set prices $3.48 a gallon, he loses customers to Ohio, but doesn't necessarily change prices. That's why I oppose this baron market view; you're part of the market if you work, buy or invest in fossil fuel and its byproducts.

.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
When the sheeple demand more gas, the oil & gas barons raise the price at the pumps regardless of how much supply they have on hand.
Why? How do you make your market immune to economic forces?

Using government to influence and change market conditions creates economic disruption and eventually ruin. Our government can't even make and follow its own budget, why in the world would you let them have any control over energy and fuel markets?

.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
When the sheeple stop demanding gas at the current price, the oil & gas barons will lower the prices a bit to entire them to buy their product again.
^^^Here WTS admits economic fact: If demand decreases and supply remains unchanged, a surplus occurs, leading to a lower equilibrium price. Here are the other laws:

If demand increases and supply remains unchanged, a shortage occurs, leading to a higher equilibrium price.

If demand remains unchanged and supply increases, a surplus occurs, leading to a lower equilibrium price.

If demand remains unchanged and supply decreases, a shortage occurs, leading to a higher equilibrium price.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_deman...

.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
Gas prices go down only when demand goes down.
Gas prices fall when taxes go down, government restrictions are removed, supply is increase or demand falls. I'm bearish on gas prices, I hope they drop below a dollar a gallon soon. WTS is on the other side of the market; this is where we differ.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#707 Jul 31, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>The government doesn't have an official list, it tracks gas prices. To answer your question, the average price is $3.70 a gallon in Michigan now.
[ibid]
.
<quoted text>The producers only do half the work, consumers set the other half of the equation. You are as much the fossil fuel market as those who find, drill, transport and refine fossil fuel into energy or transportation fuel. We are all in this together; just that I want to increase supply to reduce prices and WTS wants the opposite.
.
<quoted text>If supply increases; if the baron of Michcigan's oil sees the baron of Ohio set prices $3.48 a gallon, he loses customers to Ohio, but doesn't necessarily change prices. That's why I oppose this baron market view; you're part of the market if you work, buy or invest in fossil fuel and its byproducts.
.
<quoted text>Why? How do you make your market immune to economic forces?
Using government to influence and change market conditions creates economic disruption and eventually ruin. Our government can't even make and follow its own budget, why in the world would you let them have any control over energy and fuel markets?
.
<quoted text>^^^Here WTS admits economic fact: If demand decreases and supply remains unchanged, a surplus occurs, leading to a lower equilibrium price. Here are the other laws:
If demand increases and supply remains unchanged, a shortage occurs, leading to a higher equilibrium price.
If demand remains unchanged and supply increases, a surplus occurs, leading to a lower equilibrium price.
If demand remains unchanged and supply decreases, a shortage occurs, leading to a higher equilibrium price.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_deman...
.
<quoted text>Gas prices fall when taxes go down, government restrictions are removed, supply is increase or demand falls. I'm bearish on gas prices, I hope they drop below a dollar a gallon soon. WTS is on the other side of the market; this is where we differ.
So your claim the govt sets gas prices was just another lie- got it.

Increased supply has no effect on prices. We're producing more oil & gas than ever before and yet gas prices stay at $3.50-$4. Why? Because it is DEMAND which determines prices, and currently the sheeple are demanding $3.50-$4/gal gas.

Nope, no oil/gas baron sets their price based on supply, only on demand.

Again, the govt doesn't control the fuel market; we have no nationalized oil companies.

Nope, increased supply has no effect on prices, only demand. The oil & gas barons don't lower the prices because of any supposed surplus of gas, but rather because they know it's the only way to get the sheeple to buy if prices have gotten too high.

Nope, only a decrease in demand can bring prices down. Decreasing taxes or costly environmental regulations just means more profit for the oil & gas barons- the price of gas stays the same.

Gas will NEVER be below $3/gal as long as the sheeple keep lining up to demand gas at $3.50-$4/gal. Only a significant drop in demand can cause the oil/gas barons to lower the price of gas as a way to entice the sheeple back to buying.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#708 Jul 31, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>^^^Here WTS admits economic fact: If demand decreases and supply remains unchanged, a surplus occurs, leading to a lower equilibrium price. Here are the other laws:
If demand increases and supply remains unchanged, a shortage occurs, leading to a higher equilibrium price.
If demand remains unchanged and supply increases, a surplus occurs, leading to a lower equilibrium price.
If demand remains unchanged and supply decreases, a shortage occurs, leading to a higher equilibrium price.
.
The US is producing a record 7 million barrels of oil per day, the highest since 1992.

Yet the price of gas throughout the 90's averaged $1/gal.

So now with our record oil/gas production, the price of gas averages $3.50/gal.

Hmmm, so even though increased supply paced increased demand, the price of gas still went up all through the 2000's- until the Bush Depression of '08 caused demand to crash. Only then did prices come down.
PHD

Warren, MI

#709 Jul 31, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
So what's the point of that article? Just because 700 million acres of land are "leased," that doesn't mean 700 million acres of land are "destroyed."
Out of the 19 million acres of ANWR that Jimmy Carter set aside in 1980 for future oil drilling, only a thousand acres or so would actually be needed. The rest would remain a wildlife refuge.
I've been to some BLM lands. They are great birding!
My bad, you couldnít be capable of expanding your thinking horizons. Sorry that this only adds to your small minded thinking.
Dee Dee Dee

Emmaus, PA

#710 Jul 31, 2013
I am just glad I have a good stock pile of coal to heat my house and other properties. China is buying heavily and pushing prices up.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#711 Aug 1, 2013
WTS, why do the laws of supply and demand not work in the fuel market? I'm curious about your answer.
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#712 Aug 1, 2013
Did b_gone graduate from hs in the last five years of posting the same stuff?

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Immigration Reform Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Donald Trump is still bashing Megyn Kelly 8 min Asian Guy 4
News Trump proposals risk deepening GOP rift on immi... 14 min Asian Guy 1
News 'Anchor baby' fight scrambles Republican field 20 min serfs up 108
News Fatal shot in San Francisco pier shooting was r... 24 min Asian Guy 3
News Donald Trump: Jorge Ramos 'like a madman' 41 min Asian Guy 88
Rose's Pub (Mar '10) 1 hr jimmy krack korn 138,890
News Constitution doesn't grant birthright citizensh... 2 hr spytheweb 2
More from around the web