Obama takes on power plant emissions as part of climate plan

There are 1518 comments on the Reuters story from Jun 25, 2013, titled Obama takes on power plant emissions as part of climate plan. In it, Reuters reports that:

President Barack Obama will attempt to kick-start a global climate agenda on Tuesday with proposals including a plan to limit carbon emissions from existing U.S. power plants that is sure to face opposition from the coal industry, many business groups and Republican lawmakers.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Reuters.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#670 Jul 30, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>True only if supply remains unchanged; competitors bring prices down when demand doesn't exceed supply.
.
<quoted text>The dollar is devalued, thanks to quantitative easing. The price of gas if falling, as oil prices fall.
A Saudi prince has warned that his oil-reliant nation is under threat because of fracking technology being developed elsewhere around the world.
Billionaire Prince Alwaleed bin Talal said the Gulf Arab kingdom needed to reduce its reliance on crude oil and diversify its revenues.
His warning comes as rising shale energy supplies in the United States cut global demand for Saudi oil.
In an open letter to his country's oil minister Ali al Naimi and other government heads, published on Sunday via his Twitter account, Prince Alwaleed said demand for oil from Organisation of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (Opec) member states was "in continuous decline".
http://news.sky.com/story/1121610/saudi-princ...
Gas prices are falling? Since when? We've been at $3.75-$4/gal for over a year.

Again, the oil & gas barons control the supply. No matter how much supply they have, they can maintain gas prices at the current $4/gal level because the DEMAND is there.

ONLY if demand falls will they lower prices to entice people back to buying more.

Since there are no competitors in the oil/gas industry- just collusion & price fixing- the normal supply & demand doesn't apply.

If there were true competition, you'd see one gas station having a 50cent per gallon sale for the weekend, trying to get the business from their "competitors"- knowing they can make up the difference in volume, just like every other business does. Instead what we see is every gas station in town raising their prices within a penny of each other just before every summer weekend. That's collusion. There have also been cases of independent gas stations being sued by the corporate brands if they try to sell gas more than a dime cheaper than them.

Nope, no free market, no supply & demand, no competition- just collusion & price fixing.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#671 Jul 30, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
I am all for clean energy. I am against wind turbines being erected into the skies to kill migrating birds year after year. That is NOT clean, or green! When you find a true source of clean energy, that doesn't devastate wildlife populations, you present it to the world.
It's cleaner & greener than fossil fuels.

Should we go back to burning trees & coal in our homes just because we haven't found the perfectly clean energy source?

Enough solar energy strikes the earth to meet all the energy needs of the planet a thousand times over. We just need to harness it.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#672 Jul 30, 2013
serfs up wrote:
Remember fence walkers, many of the people in government do not work for you just as much as these commie progressive crony capitalists that write in these forums. If we let the the industry drill the price will come down. And yeah, I don't trust them either.
And yet you think they're going to voluntarily cut the amount of profit they get by lowering the price of gas?

Boy are you naïve.....

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#673 Jul 30, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
Obama didn't protect marriage as one man and one woman the way he promised in 2008, nor did he protect whistleblowers, except those who leaked NOM's 2008 Schedule B tax form from the IRS to the HRC.
But he is keeping his promises on energy and fuel prices:
Barack Obama: I think that… we have been slow to move in a better direction when it comes to energy usage. And the president, frankly, hasn’t had an energy policy.* And as a consequence we’ve been consuming energy as if it’s infinite. We now know that our demand is badly outstripping supply with China and India growing as rapidly as they are.
CNBC’s John Harwood: So could the (high) oil prices help us?
Barack Obama: I think that I would have preferred a gradual adjustment. The fact that this is such a shock to American pocketbooks is not a good thing. But if we take some steps right now to help people make the adjustment, first of all by putting more money in their pockets, but also by encouraging the market to adapt to these new circumstances more rapidly, particularly U.S.http://www.nationalreview. com/campaign-spot/9477/obama-g as-prices-i-would-have-preferr ed-gradual-adjustment automakers…
What's so hard to understand?

He's saying it would have been easier on Americans if prices had gone up gradually instead of jumping from $3 right to $5/gal like it did.

The president knows gas prices are going up no matter what we do, but would prefer a slow increase instead of the typical spikes in prices every time a camel farts in the Mideast.

The oil/gas barons look for any excuse to hike prices by 20 cents or 50 cents in a weekend, yet they NEVER drop prices by more than a penny at a time after the supposed "crisis" is resolved.
serfs up

Ormond Beach, FL

#674 Jul 30, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
And yet you think they're going to voluntarily cut the amount of profit they get by lowering the price of gas?
Boy are you naïve.....
In a moment of civility I don't trust them either. i would prefer hundreds of companies not beholden to several. But I also believe that we need to extract oil from America. Also, there is no follow on energy sources. We have spent bookoo dollars on false energy leads and nothing has replaced what we use now. and if there was something that any common man found, word of mouth and doing it on their own would have become a fact and eventually mainstreamed. I am tired of the middle east. I am tired of the fact we have several hundred bases around the world and many in that region with a presence all over and every time a nation over there burps like Egypt we still have price fluctuations. And here at home, our government has people who are stonewalling any relief for the citizens. A

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#675 Jul 30, 2013
serfs up wrote:
In a moment of civility I don't trust them either. i would prefer hundreds of companies not beholden to several. But I also believe that we need to extract oil from America. Also, there is no follow on energy sources. We have spent bookoo dollars on false energy leads and nothing has replaced what we use now. and if there was something that any common man found, word of mouth and doing it on their own would have become a fact and eventually mainstreamed. I am tired of the middle east. I am tired of the fact we have several hundred bases around the world and many in that region with a presence all over and every time a nation over there burps like Egypt we still have price fluctuations. And here at home, our government has people who are stonewalling any relief for the citizens. A
There are many thousands of companies providing coal, oil and natural gas. We don't live in a one company Oligarchy like Russia.

I'm glad we don't turn our back on the world; I'd rather kill terrorists in the Middle East than on our streets.
serfs up

Ormond Beach, FL

#676 Jul 30, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>There are many thousands of companies providing coal, oil and natural gas. We don't live in a one company Oligarchy like Russia.
I'm glad we don't turn our back on the world; I'd rather kill terrorists in the Middle East than on our streets.
We screw with them. We mess with them. We partitioned nations out of their lands. we put a nation in there and they were fighting the next day. They have long memories. They fight back the only way they know how. They will at some point get nasty weapons. this is the haves and the have nots. Iran has not forgotten the Shah. Now writing that, when there was a bipolar world with the old Soviet Union the boss of the other side, terrorists did nasty sadistic things to innocent people. I do prefer not to have terrorism here. But I do wonder how much of it we caused.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Level 1

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#677 Jul 30, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Obviously you've never seen a uranium mine and the devastating environmental effects in the surrounding area.
And how is tons of radioactive waste "clean"?
Nope, nuke is no better than coal or oil or gas.
http://www.bing.com/images/search...
Okay, now I've seen one.

And you are still talking with emotion, rather than actual knowledge and facts.

In looking at that uranium mine, I definitely see habitat destruction. I'm sure some birds and animals were displaced, maybe even killed during the mining. Probably not in large numbers though.

At the same time, I see water in the middle of a barren landscape. Probably a nice haven for waterfowl and shorebirds, especially during migration. The water may actually help some wildlife survive.

What I don't see is any direct hazard- something that would immediately kill any form of wildlife should they come across this area. I don't see an ongoing slaughter of countless animals or birds.

Like you said, we will have some effect on wildlife no matter what we do. I view this mine as minimum effect. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Compare it to these:
Offshore wind farm
A direct hazard- in fact, an EXTREME hazard, not only to birds migrating at night, but any bird that lives and hunts in the area- pelicans, gulls, terns, falcons, shorebirds, herons, egrets, Ibis, albatross, etc..
We don't see the habitat destruction that has occurred under the water, and it has -in a big way. I wonder if they've done studies to see how the turbine vibration under water effects the communications of whales and dolphins, as well as other underwater life.
http://www.bing.com/images/search...

Onshore wind farm
Habitat destruction and another EXTREME, CONTINUOUS hazard to the bird and bat life that lives in the area or migrates through every year.
http://www.bing.com/images/search...

I would rather live by the uranium mine than a wind farm.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Level 1

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#678 Jul 30, 2013
Huh wrote:
<quoted text>
I did not vote Obama..I am a Libertarian...I don't make statements based on political party. So I deal in facts and the truth...The truth is we could drill a hole in every county and oof every shore in every states in the USA build 500 new oil refineries and oil and gas prices will not go donw by much if at all...WAKE UP THE RICH AND BIG OIL ARE LYING TO YOU...
There is no oil shortage today and many days refineries sit still and don't work...There is oil wells all over that sit not working....WHY NOT MAKE THEM WORK FULL TIME?????????? I know why the big oil has a lie of a reason to raise prices.....
Using the phrase "the rich" and "big oil" tells me you are no libertarian!

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#679 Jul 30, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
I would rather live by the uranium mine than a wind farm.
That's your choice, but don't forget all the radioactive waste leaking into the soil & groundwater, because that's part of the nuclear power plant package as well.

I'll take my windmill any day.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Level 1

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#680 Jul 30, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>^^^This is just childish name calling; irrational ad hominem argument.
.
<quoted text>They do it with volume, in April they sold 357,273,800 gallons of gasoline a day, at 3¢ a gallon profit, that's $10,718,214 in profit per day.
Is mathematics fascinating?
.
<quoted text>They have every reason to charge as much as the market will allow; that's how capitalism works. And the consumer has every reason to look for lowest prices too.
.
<quoted text>It's not just the oil and gas barons, every customer shares the same interest in fossil fuel production and use. We can all see, WTS wants higher fuel prices and his postings are made to further that goal.
WOW! That's ALOT of gas! At that rate the earth will run out of gas by Saturday. I think I'll get myself a horse. No wait, if I do, the global warming freaks will claim horse gas is causing the earth to warm and try to ban hay growing.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Level 1

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#681 Jul 30, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Correct, the oil & gas barons will charge "as much as the market will allow".
That's why it's sheer ignorance to think they will lower the price of gas as long as the demand is there at current prices.
And worldwide demand for oil/gas is only INCREASING, which means prices will only increase regardless of how much oil they drill.
DEMAND drives the price of gas, and the sheeple are currently demanding gas at $3.50-$4/gal.
I demand my gas to be $1.25 a gallon. And would be if we could increase supply.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Level 1

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#682 Jul 30, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
It's cleaner & greener than fossil fuels.
Should we go back to burning trees & coal in our homes just because we haven't found the perfectly clean energy source?
Enough solar energy strikes the earth to meet all the energy needs of the planet a thousand times over. We just need to harness it.
"Should we go back to burning trees & coal in our homes just because we haven't found the perfectly clean energy source?"
Nope. I'm content with my natural gas. Burning trees is okay too, as long as they aren't cut down in the spring and summer while the birds are nesting in them.:)

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Level 1

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#683 Jul 30, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
And yet you think they're going to voluntarily cut the amount of profit they get by lowering the price of gas?
Boy are you naïve.....
I think you're all naïve. Gas prices have nothing to do with supply and demand, OR saving the environment.

It has everything to do with the government's agenda to make this country like Europe. They want us all in small cars- IF any cars at all. Just look at all the roundabouts they're constructing- even in areas that had perfectly fine on/off ramps that didn't need repair or change. Also look at how small the parking spaces are when they repaint parking lots.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Level 1

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#684 Jul 30, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>There are many thousands of companies providing coal, oil and natural gas. We don't live in a one company Oligarchy like Russia.
I'm glad we don't turn our back on the world; I'd rather kill terrorists in the Middle East than on our streets.
Let's not go there again.

How would you like Chinese troops marching down American streets?(Even if they claim to be here keeping the peace and helping us)?
There you go- those people see our troops on THEIR land and it pisses them off- rightfully so. THIS breeds terrorists!

Our Constitution does NOT allow us to rule the world- it simply governs this country here on our soil.

Read the words of our founders about getting mixed up in others affairs.

It's better to just set a good example than to go beating up people who have different beliefs and lifestyles.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Level 1

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#685 Jul 30, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
That's your choice, but don't forget all the radioactive waste leaking into the soil & groundwater, because that's part of the nuclear power plant package as well.
I'll take my windmill any day.
All we need to do is figure out a way to safely dispose of the waste, or even use it somehow, and nuclear is the way to go.

It can't be all that bad. Where do you think those crazy bird watchers go in the winter to see lots of birds? Yep, nuclear power plants. The open water is a haven for waterfowl and gulls in areas where everything else is frozen. I have never birded one, but I know lots of people who have. The birds there are alive and healthy.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Level 1

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#686 Jul 30, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
That's your choice, but don't forget all the radioactive waste leaking into the soil & groundwater, because that's part of the nuclear power plant package as well.
I'll take my windmill any day.
BTW, I don't have a problem with your little wind mill. I have a problem with the giant monstrosity turbines being built on wind farms all over the country.
PHD

Warren, MI

#687 Jul 31, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
BTW, I don't have a problem with your little wind mill. I have a problem with the giant monstrosity turbines being built on wind farms all over the country.
There are plenty of excuses called you and your political friends that are trying to squeeze the life out of our eco system. Now read on and educate yourself on real facts.
http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/prog/energy/oil_a...

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Level 1

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#691 Jul 31, 2013
PHD wrote:
<quoted text>There are plenty of excuses called you and your political friends that are trying to squeeze the life out of our eco system. Now read on and educate yourself on real facts.
http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/prog/energy/oil_a...
So what's the point of that article? Just because 700 million acres of land are "leased," that doesn't mean 700 million acres of land are "destroyed."

Out of the 19 million acres of ANWR that Jimmy Carter set aside in 1980 for future oil drilling, only a thousand acres or so would actually be needed. The rest would remain a wildlife refuge.

I've been to some BLM lands. They are great birding!
Huh

Faribault, MN

#692 Jul 31, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
Using the phrase "the rich" and "big oil" tells me you are no libertarian!
Hows that????????? Look around the rich and big oil and big pharm have somehow got control of our government,,,,It is a fact anyone should be scared about...EVEN A LIBERTARIAN....

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