Obama takes on power plant emissions ...

Obama takes on power plant emissions as part of climate plan

There are 1518 comments on the Reuters story from Jun 25, 2013, titled Obama takes on power plant emissions as part of climate plan. In it, Reuters reports that:

President Barack Obama will attempt to kick-start a global climate agenda on Tuesday with proposals including a plan to limit carbon emissions from existing U.S. power plants that is sure to face opposition from the coal industry, many business groups and Republican lawmakers.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Reuters.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Level 1

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#587 Jul 28, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
If you don't care then why bother with fencing at all? Wouldn't it be more environmentally friendly to leave it all open?
My fence is only to keep my dogs in. I live near a busy street and my first responsibility is to keep my dogs safe. It also keeps my dogs from killing wildlife. Rabbits can get through the fence to safety quickly because it's chicken wire.
SpaceBlues

United States

#588 Jul 28, 2013
How ignorant of the facts! Texas is on the birds' migration path.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Level 1

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#589 Jul 28, 2013
BTW, part of my yard IS open so animals can come and go easily. The fencing is only in the backyard. The dogs don't have the run of the whole property.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Level 1

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#590 Jul 28, 2013
litesong wrote:
<quoted text>
Such an idea coming from a transplanted euro....... yeah, that's about right.
I didn't condone it. I questioned why we didn't do it if some people make that claim that all we want is their oil.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Level 1

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#591 Jul 28, 2013
Well, it looks like the sun is finally coming out. Maybe I can shut the furnace off now and get outside to photograph my hummingbirds.
litesong

Everett, WA

#592 Jul 28, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
The people could bring down the price of gas Bigtime if American's stuck together and refused to pay it.(Like the truckers did when I was kid) But everyone is too chicken to........ quit buying gas for a week.
My cars have averaged well over 40mpg for 3+ decades with highway highs of 50-57mpg. That means I haven't been buying gas, like the gas companies want me to, for 2000 plus weeks. My small cars have even helped me avoid potential accidents, instigated by behemoth car drivers.

Even now, a present non-hybrid, non-diesel car of mine, with the best rear seat shoulder room of high mpg vehicles, but bad-mouthed for poor mpg, is averaging 39+mpg, with the last 3 tanks over 40mpg.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Level 1

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#593 Jul 28, 2013
Change of plans. The sun is gone. The wind and rain has moved in again and it's barely 64 degrees outside. But then, this is part of the planet heating up, isn't it? Maybe it's just that Christmas in July thing we hear about.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Level 1

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#594 Jul 28, 2013
SpaceBlues wrote:
How ignorant of the facts! Texas is on the birds' migration path.
I have stated nothing but facts. I know full well where Texas is located. Why do you think that's where I go during April? It doesn't change the fact that birds have been migrating through, AND other birds wintering and/or residing, in Texas for eons. They made it through even with all that oil drilling and refining.

What do you suppose will happen to alot of the migrant birds now with them erecting giant wind turbines offshore and along the Gulf Coast?

Knowing what you know about Trans Gulf flights, what will those tiny, EXHAUSTED neo-tropical migrant songbirds do the moment they see HUGE RESTING PERCHES inviting them in to safety above the water?

There are so many accounts of oil rig workers witnessing large numbers of migrant songbirds landing on oil rigs in the Gulf and resting because they were exhausted, or waiting for bad weather to pass.

What do you think is safer for a migrating songbird after a Trans Gulf flight; an oil rig in the Gulf; or a fast spinning wind turbine blade in the Gulf?

What about on shore; an oil refinery, or a wind farm? Try visiting both before you answer.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Level 1

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#595 Jul 28, 2013
litesong wrote:
<quoted text>
My cars have averaged well over 40mpg for 3+ decades with highway highs of 50-57mpg. That means I haven't been buying gas, like the gas companies want me to, for 2000 plus weeks. My small cars have even helped me avoid potential accidents, instigated by behemoth car drivers.
Even now, a present non-hybrid, non-diesel car of mine, with the best rear seat shoulder room of high mpg vehicles, but bad-mouthed for poor mpg, is averaging 39+mpg, with the last 3 tanks over 40mpg.
"My small cars have even helped me avoid potential accidents,"
Your small car will also help you, and your family, die should you get into an accident.

The fact remains, gas should be no more than $1.25 per gallon.
litesong

Everett, WA

#596 Jul 28, 2013
litesong wrote:
"My small cars have even helped me avoid potential accidents,"
//////////
'rapt igin' wrote:
Your small car will also help you, and your family, die should you get into an accident.
//////////
litesong wrote:
At this point, we are still ahead of the game, having avoided several accidents due to the errors of big behemoth vehicle drivers. My wife owns a smaller car than I do & loves it.......won't drive mine.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#598 Jul 28, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
You left out 'wind/solar.' Or does the damage they cause to the environment and people's health get a pass? Environmental laws only apply to those "other" companies?
<quoted text>
If we wanted their oil, why didn't we just nuke 'em and take it?
<quoted text>
Why not leave the open coal pit mine for the bats when we're done with it? Other than a safety gate to keep people, pets and livestock out, it would be relatively cheap. Why do we need to "restore" the mountain top? Wildflowers, shrubs and trees will grow all by themselves once the birds and squirrels plant the seeds? That's a fairly cheap fix too.
<quoted text>
How far can a vehicle run on electricity?
<quoted text>
The people could bring down the price of gas Bigtime if American's stuck together and refused to pay it.(Like the truckers did when I was kid) But everyone is too chicken to quit going to work, quit driving and quit buying gas for a week.
The environmental damage from wind & solar power generation is miniscule compared to fossil fuels. Considering we only have 2 choices, I choose the least damaging- i.e. renewables.

Maybe you've heard of this thing called radioactive fallout? That and the fact we have to pretend those wars weren't all about keeping the cheap oil flowing.

You probably think there's such a thing as "clean coal" too.....

How far do you need to go? Just like a gasoline engine, when you run low on fuel (or electric charge) you refill.

Yes, sheeple are stupid, which is why gas will soon top $5, then $10, then $20/gal. The oil & gas barons could lower the price of gas to $1/gal tomorrow if they wanted to, and they STILL make billions in profits. But since the sheeple line up around the block just for the change of buying gas at $3.50, why would they lower their prices?

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#599 Jul 28, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't care about what other countries do. We have oil here and we should drill for it and keep it here. Charity begins at home and we have a lot of poor and middle class people suffering because of the high gas prices, which raises the prices of all the other necessities.
That's a typical sheeple response.

It's a GLOBAL oil market. We already export oil from the US even while we import oil from Canada, Mexico, and of course the Middle East. It's all about who's willing to pay the highest price.

I do agree with you that all our natural resources should be kept in America and used solely for Americans, but that's just not realistic- unless you plan on turning us into a dictatorship. That's why I oppose the Keystone pipeline- we accept all the risk of spills & leaks and the pollution to refine it, and then we'll ship the final product overseas to the highest bidder.

If the poor & middle class are "suffering" now, then they're REALLY going to be in trouble soon. But I'm sure they'll still find a way to buy $7/pk cigarettes and $3 Starbucks and booze and lottery tickets. Hmmmm, maybe they're "suffering" because they make poor choices?

The sheeple get what the sheeple deserve.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#600 Jul 28, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
They are removing railroad tracks all over the place. This I disagree with. We should be using trains more to transport goods. And there are too many semis tearing up the roads.
Blame artificially cheap fossil fuels, unions, corrupt politicians, and of course the ignorant sheeple.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#601 Jul 28, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't bother to read it because you know it is full of facts you don't want to hear. You're afraid of hearing a different point of view because it just might make you think.
This post tells me that you're speaking from emotion rather than fact.
I have a gas well on my property in Lewiston. It has never hurt a thing. You almost can't even see it. It is surrounded by beautiful meadow flowers and grasses and full of butterflies and dragonflies. The birds love the mixed hedgerow that surrounds it.
It's true... oil refineries aren't a pretty sight. I've seen plenty of them while down in Texas bird watching. Funny thing is, Texas has some of the best bird watching/hunting/wildlife viewing of any state. Even with all that oil, wildlife thrives! And it takes a whole lot less land to extract and refine gas and oil, compared to the amount of land needed for wind farms to power the same number of homes. I'll vote to save more habitat any day. After all, it is habitat destruction that is the greatest threat to this planet....That effects wildlife AND humans.
I don't read long posts filled with links because I don't click on links from people I don't know & don't trust.

When you live with an oil refinery or a coal fired power plant in your backyard, you may change your vote.

The damage from fossil fuels isn't just in the immediate vicinity of the mining or drilling or refining or power generation plants. Acid rain & mercury have ruined just about every lake east of the Mississippi. And of course the pollution in cities makes your eyes burn after just 30 minutes exposure.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#602 Jul 28, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
My fence is only to keep my dogs in. I live near a busy street and my first responsibility is to keep my dogs safe. It also keeps my dogs from killing wildlife. Rabbits can get through the fence to safety quickly because it's chicken wire.
How small are your rabbits if they can fit through chicken wire? Maybe they're mutants from all the gas.....

Try invisible fencing- it works wonders to keep dogs in. Or try training your dogs- another responsibility of every owner.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#603 Jul 28, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
I have stated nothing but facts. I know full well where Texas is located. Why do you think that's where I go during April? It doesn't change the fact that birds have been migrating through, AND other birds wintering and/or residing, in Texas for eons. They made it through even with all that oil drilling and refining.
What do you suppose will happen to alot of the migrant birds now with them erecting giant wind turbines offshore and along the Gulf Coast?
Knowing what you know about Trans Gulf flights, what will those tiny, EXHAUSTED neo-tropical migrant songbirds do the moment they see HUGE RESTING PERCHES inviting them in to safety above the water?
There are so many accounts of oil rig workers witnessing large numbers of migrant songbirds landing on oil rigs in the Gulf and resting because they were exhausted, or waiting for bad weather to pass.
What do you think is safer for a migrating songbird after a Trans Gulf flight; an oil rig in the Gulf; or a fast spinning wind turbine blade in the Gulf?
What about on shore; an oil refinery, or a wind farm? Try visiting both before you answer.
Obviously you've never actually seen a wind turbine in action. They are "fast spinning"- they actually turn rather slowly and automatically shut down if winds get to high.

Go to the thumb and watch their windmills in action. If a bird can't avoid those blades, then they're destined to be removed from the gene pool one way or another.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#604 Jul 28, 2013
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
"My small cars have even helped me avoid potential accidents,"
Your small car will also help you, and your family, die should you get into an accident.
The fact remains, gas should be no more than $1.25 per gallon.
Why should gas be "no more than $1.25 per gallon"?

That's just a moronic statement.

It's the same a saying cars should be no more than $5,000, and coffee no more than a nickel a cup, and houses no more than $10,000, etc.

If you want to sell gas for $1.25 per gallon, feel free to buy some oil, refine it, and sell it for that price. No one is stopping you.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Level 1

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#605 Jul 28, 2013
litesong wrote:
litesong wrote:
"My small cars have even helped me avoid potential accidents,"
//////////
'rapt igin' wrote:
Your small car will also help you, and your family, die should you get into an accident.
//////////
litesong wrote:
At this point, we are still ahead of the game, having avoided several accidents due to the errors of big behemoth vehicle drivers. My wife owns a smaller car than I do & loves it.......won't drive mine.
I could not fathom being in a small car and not being able to see what's ahead of the vehicle in front of me. Or driving through a wildlife refuge, or down a back road, in search of wildlife to photograph and not being able to see above the grasses and cattails. UGH!

My truck gets 14-17 mpg. That sucks. It has almost 220,000 miles on it and I will be in the market for something new.... eventually.

I want to stay in a larger vehicle for safety reasons, as well as the reasons I mentioned above^^, and because I have family that travel with me up to the cabin and on day trips. I also haul stuff back and forth. My next vehicle MUST be four-wheel drive since I will possibly be moving up north soon and they get tons more snow than I'm used to down in the southern part of the state.

I hope they make a small or mid-sized SUV or pickup truck that gets good gas mileage. It's been so long since I've looked at new vehicles. I really miss my 1991 Ranger, and I hear they don't make those anymore.
litesong

Everett, WA

#606 Jul 28, 2013
rapt igin wrote:
it's barely 64 degrees outside. But then, this is part of the planet heating up, isn't it? Maybe it's just that Christmas in July thing we hear about.
Today's weather from "Will It, Won't It,":
Just north of Hudson's Bay, where Killer Whales may have died in the incessant cold of last winter, morning temperature is 23deg(73degF). Even with the "land of the midnight sun" reducing in size, Murmansk, Russia still has a balmy temperature of 26degC(79degF).

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Level 1

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#607 Jul 28, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
The environmental damage from wind & solar power generation is miniscule compared to fossil fuels. Considering we only have 2 choices, I choose the least damaging- i.e. renewables.
Maybe you've heard of this thing called radioactive fallout? That and the fact we have to pretend those wars weren't all about keeping the cheap oil flowing.
You probably think there's such a thing as "clean coal" too.....
How far do you need to go? Just like a gasoline engine, when you run low on fuel (or electric charge) you refill.
Yes, sheeple are stupid, which is why gas will soon top $5, then $10, then $20/gal. The oil & gas barons could lower the price of gas to $1/gal tomorrow if they wanted to, and they STILL make billions in profits. But since the sheeple line up around the block just for the change of buying gas at $3.50, why would they lower their prices?
You call large-scale habitat destruction "miniscule?"
You call massive slaughters of federally protected birds and bats "miniscule?"

If you think renewables is the "least damaging" then you either haven't read anything I posted, or you are just a typical lib that refuses to hear another side.

I don't deny fossil fuels are bad for the environment, but I also know that renewables isn't what they are made out to be...and in fact are much worse than they will let you know.

It doesn't take much land to drill. It takes huge amounts of land to build a wind farm.

Most scientists would agree HABITAT DESTRUCTION is the biggest problem the planet faces.

Oil can be cleaned up. In fact, spills can be prevented. Oil can 'sometimes' be cleaned off wildlife, and that wildlife rehabilitated and released.

No bird can ever be put back together after hitting a wind turbine. And birds do hit in very large numbers, though they lie to us about it. Bats don't even have to hit the turbine. Their lungs explode if they even get close.

"How far do you need to go?"
It depends. Work is only five miles away. The cabin is 170 miles. Arizona is about 2000 miles. Either way, I don't have time to stop and recharge. It uses up too much precious vacation time. I don't even like refueling.

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