Obama takes on power plant emissions ...

Obama takes on power plant emissions as part of climate plan

There are 1518 comments on the Reuters story from Jun 25, 2013, titled Obama takes on power plant emissions as part of climate plan. In it, Reuters reports that:

President Barack Obama will attempt to kick-start a global climate agenda on Tuesday with proposals including a plan to limit carbon emissions from existing U.S. power plants that is sure to face opposition from the coal industry, many business groups and Republican lawmakers.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Reuters.

Dee Dee Dee

Emmaus, PA

#525 Jul 22, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Does that make W.T.S. a moral leader or a hypocrite?
.
<quoted text>This happens over and over, as demand grows prices increase and more producers take advantage of high prices by increasing supply.
I don't think W.T.S. believes in capitalism.
.
<quoted text>This, despite the evidence we've never run out of a mineral resource in all our history.
Normally, when the well runs dry you just drill deeper until they fill.
Like all left wing elitists he is a hypocrite. They want to force middle class people to use energy that is expensive and unreliable so they can profit but they claim it is to help the environment. In the mean time they profit from increased energy costs and government subsidies to the energy companies both renewable and fossil fuel.
They want illegal aliens to provide cheap labor to work on their farms, clean their homes, maintain their landscaping and raise the children that they did not abort, but they claim that it is to help the "poor immigrants" and that is why they support illegal immigration and underpaying illegal aliens who replace American workers. Just like they helped the poor blacks by taking them out of Africa and all of the hardships and danger they faced there and putting them to work. on their farms, cleaning their homes, maintaining their landscaping and raising the children that they did not abort.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#526 Jul 22, 2013
OPEC is a big fan of creating a false sense on scarcity around fossil fuel production, with high taxes. Just like WeTheSheeple, DDD is right, he is a hypocrite.

Adding alcohol to gasoline is loutish, immoral and increases starvation among the poor.
SpaceBlues

Pasadena, TX

#527 Jul 22, 2013
WOW. These deniers don't know history either.

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/05/07/1...
Dee Dee Dee

Emmaus, PA

#528 Jul 22, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
OPEC is a big fan of creating a false sense on scarcity around fossil fuel production, with high taxes. Just like WeTheSheeple, DDD is right, he is a hypocrite.
Adding alcohol to gasoline is loutish, immoral and increases starvation among the poor.
Yes but it does push up corn prices for those "poor farmers", yet they still can't survive without illegal labor, federal subsidizes, and other special exemptions from labor, safety and environmental laws.
serfs up

Ormond Beach, FL

#529 Jul 22, 2013
We peons have been paying high energy prices as part of our being taught a lesson on the limits of enjoying life by our government traitors for several years now. What I can't figure out is where are those new fangled green energy sources at? The fossil prices have been high enough to justify their introduction. I mean we have been at this since Jimmy Carter for crying out loud. I know. five bucks a gallon will bring in the utopia. Soon my friends...soon!

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#530 Jul 22, 2013
freebird wrote:
<quoted text>
Talk to Congress about it. Even though we both know that we couldn't switch over 100% right now. ;)


Sure we could, we just choose not to.

I no longer care. I'm ready for the coming collapse.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#531 Jul 22, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Does that make W.T.S. a moral leader or a hypocrite?
.
<quoted text>This happens over and over, as demand grows prices increase and more producers take advantage of high prices by increasing supply.
I don't think W.T.S. believes in capitalism.
.
<quoted text>This, despite the evidence we've never run out of a mineral resource in all our history.
Normally, when the well runs dry you just drill deeper until they fill.
Like they increased the supply of carrier pigeons when the demand and prices went up? Oh that's right, there was no more supply to be increased.

Oh yeah, all those oil & gas wells will just magically refill, and the coal mines will grow new coal too......

The gas pumps will be dry long before the oil actually runs out, mostly because of increased competition from the billions of new consumers in India & China, and most of our domestic oil/gas will be diverted to the military in the coming wars.

It's no wonder we're headed for the cliff.

Btw, I invest my money where it makes the greatest profit. It that means I profit of the stupidity of the sheeple, then that's what I'll do to ensure I have what I need to survive the coming collapse.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#532 Jul 23, 2013
I wrote: "[W]e've never run out of a mineral resource in all our history."
WeTheSheeple wrote:
Like they increased the supply of carrier pigeons when the demand and prices went up? Oh that's right, there was no more supply to be increased....
In what way do you understand carrier pigeons to be a mineral resource?
Darkness Falls

Houston, TX

#533 Jul 23, 2013
Lame duck takes on coal industry. Wow, I wonder how this one is going to end. (smirks)
GEEWIZ

Lexington, KY

#534 Jul 23, 2013
Enjoy your high priced electric bills and all the unemployment it will cause. the air will b no better but the epa and the green movement will feel better. no jobs and poor ppl. not having affordable electric.thanks green movement lets c how many more feel good silly things u can due 2 put more ppl. out of work.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#535 Jul 23, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
I wrote: "[W]e've never run out of a mineral resource in all our history."
<quoted text>In what way do you understand carrier pigeons to be a mineral resource?
The obvious point was people once thought we could never run out of carrier pigeons either, just as there are people who think we'll never run out of fossil fuels.

Yes, there will always be oil and natural gas and coal in the ground, but that doesn't mean it will always be readily available.

The oil & gas wars are coming soon, and there won't be any more pretense of "spreading democracy" or whatever excuse we've used in the past.

Better start stockpiling supplies now while you still can, because if you wait until the sheeple catch on, it will be too late.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#536 Jul 24, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
The obvious point was people once thought we could never run out of carrier pigeons either, just as there are people who think we'll never run out of fossil fuels.
People like WTS, the rest of us know about the Dodo, Moa, Auk... not to mention extinct mammals. We all know evolution runs on species extinctions, nobody thinks any species "could never run out", not even man. Maybe WTS is describing his own beliefs.

.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
Yes, there will always be oil and natural gas and coal in the ground, but that doesn't mean it will always be readily available.
Some people are trying to make fossil fuel less readily available; they are people like WTS. Others want to make fossil fuel more readily available, they are the producers and consumers who make our civilization work.

Best case, we let the market settle the issue without government interference. If you don't want to use fossil fuel, buy something else. For the rest of us, we want an energy policy that encourages the production and use of energy and fuel.

.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
The oil & gas wars are coming soon, and there won't be any more pretense of "spreading democracy" or whatever excuse we've used in the past.
Who's side are you on?

.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
Better start stockpiling supplies now while you still can, because if you wait until the sheeple catch on, it will be too late.
^^^The owners, OPEC and oil suppliers want to make oil more expensive, rare, valuable and discourage competition and supply growth. Consumers like us want to make fossil fuel less expensive. This is supply and demand. Again, we've never run out of a mineral resource and without taxes and regulation, fuel prices would be far lower.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#537 Jul 24, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>People like WTS, the rest of us know about the Dodo, Moa, Auk... not to mention extinct mammals. We all know evolution runs on species extinctions, nobody thinks any species "could never run out", not even man. Maybe WTS is describing his own beliefs.
.
<quoted text>Some people are trying to make fossil fuel less readily available; they are people like WTS. Others want to make fossil fuel more readily available, they are the producers and consumers who make our civilization work.
Best case, we let the market settle the issue without government interference. If you don't want to use fossil fuel, buy something else. For the rest of us, we want an energy policy that encourages the production and use of energy and fuel.
.
<quoted text>Who's side are you on?
.
<quoted text>^^^The owners, OPEC and oil suppliers want to make oil more expensive, rare, valuable and discourage competition and supply growth. Consumers like us want to make fossil fuel less expensive. This is supply and demand. Again, we've never run out of a mineral resource and without taxes and regulation, fuel prices would be far lower.
It won't matter what you want. The oil/gas/coal barons want to maintain their monopoly on energy production, and with the millions they give to Congress, it's what THEY want that matters.

Will you send your son or daughter to war just to protect the oil tankers? How many TRILLIONS more of our tax dollars are you willing to waste just to have "cheap gas"?

The sheeple will get what they deserve-$20/gal for gas (if you can find it)- ENJOY!

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#538 Jul 25, 2013
WTS is on the side of the " oil/gas/coal barons [who] want to maintain their monopoly on energy production", he endorses their policies of regulation and high taxes to discourage competition.

End the bans on continental shelf exploration and production, open public lands to production, cut taxes and deregulate markets for economic success. Else, WTS's plan for $20/gallon gas is sure to pass.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#539 Jul 25, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
WTS is on the side of the " oil/gas/coal barons [who] want to maintain their monopoly on energy production", he endorses their policies of regulation and high taxes to discourage competition.
End the bans on continental shelf exploration and production, open public lands to production, cut taxes and deregulate markets for economic success. Else, WTS's plan for $20/gallon gas is sure to pass.
You are the idiots who don't want the competition from renewable energy.

So when the oil & gas barons hike the prices to $20/gal, you only have yourself to blame.

I look forward to that day.

You sheeple will get exactly what you deserve, while I continue to enjoy cheap reliable electricity from my wind, solar, & geothermal setup.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#540 Jul 25, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
You are the idiots who don't want the competition from renewable energy.
^^^This is completely false; the people with a vested interest in $20/gallon gasoline don't want effective competition from anybody. They want the government, and vested interest lobbies in the mix, picking market winners like the next Solyndra. I want less government regulation and lower taxes to remove barriers to markets, not more government and higher taxes like WTS.

.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
So when the oil & gas barons hike the prices to $20/gal, you only have yourself to blame. I look forward to that day.
WTS has said many times, he looks forward to the when gas prices skyrocket. With the way the Federal Reserve is flooding the market with dollars, the rejection of pipeline and domestic production on public land and off our shores; prices might rise significantly.

But I doubt we'll see $20/gal gas for the next twenty years and think it more likely prices will fall below $1/gallon if we change energy policy to encourage its production and use.

.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
You sheeple will get exactly what you deserve, while I continue to enjoy cheap reliable electricity from my wind, solar, & geothermal setup.
Geothermal is only reliable if you live in the right places, wind's only as reliable as its namesake and solar's only good for daytime energy production.

If you want reliable and renewable, count on fossil fuel. So long as you need it, they'll always be more.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#541 Jul 25, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>^^^This is completely false; the people with a vested interest in $20/gallon gasoline don't want effective competition from anybody. They want the government, and vested interest lobbies in the mix, picking market winners like the next Solyndra. I want less government regulation and lower taxes to remove barriers to markets, not more government and higher taxes like WTS.
.
<quoted text>WTS has said many times, he looks forward to the when gas prices skyrocket. With the way the Federal Reserve is flooding the market with dollars, the rejection of pipeline and domestic production on public land and off our shores; prices might rise significantly.
But I doubt we'll see $20/gal gas for the next twenty years and think it more likely prices will fall below $1/gallon if we change energy policy to encourage its production and use.
.
<quoted text>Geothermal is only reliable if you live in the right places, wind's only as reliable as its namesake and solar's only good for daytime energy production.
If you want reliable and renewable, count on fossil fuel. So long as you need it, they'll always be more.
No, you want no renewable energy, which means the oil barons can dictate the price you're going to pay at the pump because there will be no alternative. The choice is yours, so don't bitch to me when you're paying $20+ for a gallon of gas- if you can find any. Remember, I warned you.

So you're claiming we HAVEN'T been encouraging the use of fossil fuels for the past 200+ years? Really?? Wow, you really ARE out of touch.

Now fossil fuels are "renewable"? You just keep getting more insane with every post.

Btw, I get 100% of my electricity & heating & cooling from wind, solar & geothermal, and I live in Michigan. They make these super-secret things called batteries which allow you to store electricity for future use, but I'm sure you've never heard of them either.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Level 1

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#542 Jul 25, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
No, you want no renewable energy, which means the oil barons can dictate the price you're going to pay at the pump because there will be no alternative. The choice is yours, so don't bitch to me when you're paying $20+ for a gallon of gas- if you can find any. Remember, I warned you.
So you're claiming we HAVEN'T been encouraging the use of fossil fuels for the past 200+ years? Really?? Wow, you really ARE out of touch.
Now fossil fuels are "renewable"? You just keep getting more insane with every post.
Btw, I get 100% of my electricity & heating & cooling from wind, solar & geothermal, and I live in Michigan. They make these super-secret things called batteries which allow you to store electricity for future use, but I'm sure you've never heard of them either.
Actually fossil fuels ARE renewable in a sense. Do you know where "fossil" fuel comes from? Did you also know that oil seeps out of the earth naturally? And that this natural leaking spills more oil into oceans each year than man does?

How tall is your wind turbine? Tall enough to kill migrating birds? Did you know of the massive bird slaughter at tall structures like cell towers, sky scrapers and WIND TURBINES? Not so green and clean, huh?

I see you're in Tawas. Did you know Tawas Point SP is a magnet for warblers and other birds during migration? I hope the birds don't get near your place. They might not make it out alive.

BTW, gas was ALOT cheaper BEFORE the push for "renewable" energy. Explain THAT!

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Level 1

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#544 Jul 25, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
You are the idiots who don't want the competition from renewable energy.
So when the oil & gas barons hike the prices to $20/gal, you only have yourself to blame.
I look forward to that day.
You sheeple will get exactly what you deserve, while I continue to enjoy cheap reliable electricity from my wind, solar, & geothermal setup.
Just curious. What is your average monthly electric bill?

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#545 Jul 25, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
No, you want no renewable energy,
Untrue, I want the market to decide, not politicians. I have no special love for renewable energy, if they can compete, that's fine.

.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
which means the oil barons can dictate the price you're going to pay at the pump because there will be no alternative.
No alternative except to drive down the street to the next oil baron's gas station. As long as we have competition, prices remain competitive.

.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
The choice is yours, so don't bitch to me when you're paying $20+ for a gallon of gas- if you can find any. Remember, I warned you.
WTS is't just warning, he's doing everything he can to increase gas prices. He supports higher gas taxes; I don't. He supports banning offshore exploration and drilling, I don't. He supports banning oil production on public land, I don't

.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
So you're claiming we HAVEN'T been encouraging the use of fossil fuels for the past 200+ years? Really?? Wow, you really ARE out of touch.
Since the 70's, American policy has promoted conservation, not energy and fuel production and use.

.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
Now fossil fuels are "renewable"? You just keep getting more insane with every post.
Fossil fuel is renewable; if you burn a chunk of coal you just buy another to burn; it's more renewable than wind and solar because you have no market and must wait for nature to provide the next photon or breeze.

.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
Btw, I get 100% of my electricity & heating & cooling from wind, solar & geothermal, and I live in Michigan. They make these super-secret things called batteries which allow you to store electricity for future use, but I'm sure you've never heard of them either.
I don't care if WTS lives in a cave, I still support fossil fuel. He opposes fossil fuel and wants higher energy prices; this is where we differ.

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