Couples split by border hope reform b...

Couples split by border hope reform brings relief

There are 556 comments on the Northern Michigan News story from Aug 27, 2013, titled Couples split by border hope reform brings relief. In it, Northern Michigan News reports that:

As Edgar Falcon and Maricruz Valtierra exchanged vows, they attracted the attention of hundreds of morning commuters Tuesday at the Santa Fe border bridge in El Paso, craning their necks to see the couple standing on the dividing line between the U.S. and Mexico.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Northern Michigan News.

Dee Dee Dee

Coopersburg, PA

#77 Sep 11, 2013
_White American_ wrote:
<quoted text>I disagree with you DDD. I do believe that most people that enter this Country do have proof of identity. It may not be documentation from this Country but they sure do have some from theres. As to the use of false social security numbers for work those to my knowledge use their own names with a bad number. They don't go around using other peoples names. Not to mention that many of those here for years may already have sent paperwork into the Government.
As to the patriot act and nsa like I said I don't like them but I wouldn't like anything happening to my family or yours for that matter because we didn't keep track of what others are saying or about to do.
A very large percentage of the poor from south of the border have no identity papers and never had which is one of the reasons they cannot immigrate here legally. They first have to obtain documentation from their own government, which is often difficult and expensive for a poor person born in a mountain shack.
There is also a large group that do have papers from their own government including criminal files and warrants for their arrest. There is an entire criminal culture dedicated to false IDs and our government does not have the resources or the will to verify the ID of 20 million people who have generations of practice at hiding their true ID.
Many people have died and many more will defending you freedoms and to give up even a small part of that freedom out of fear does not honor them.
Level 5

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#78 Sep 11, 2013
_White American_ wrote:
<quoted text>We really aren't called gringos so much south of the border. In fact when I lived in Mexico for a year I told people they could call me a gringa and they wouldn't. They liked me but I wasn't insulted by the name.
To call someone a gringo or gringa is to insult. I find it offensive, this is the UNITED STATES of AMERICA, there is no other country in the 'Americas' where people call themselves Americans, they are Mexicans, Guatemaltecos, Cubanos, Dominicanos, Brasilenos, Argentinos, but they don't call themselves Americanos, everyone except for disgruntled Mexicans are ok with their citizenship label. Mexicans are in some sort of cheap seat rivalry with their neighbor to the north, instead of being grateful that they can bag up and send their uneducated masses to the US to send back wages to the home country, there is the sense of malagradacimiento, or bitterness, about their circumstances. We owe Mexico nothing, in fact, they owe us for all of the freebies the American taxpayers have doled out to people. Anyone calls me a gringa, I'll call them a mojado.
spud

Weatherly, PA

#79 Sep 11, 2013
OneRepublic wrote:
<quoted text>
To call someone a gringo or gringa is to insult. I find it offensive, this is the UNITED STATES of AMERICA, there is no other country in the 'Americas' where people call themselves Americans, they are Mexicans, Guatemaltecos, Cubanos, Dominicanos, Brasilenos, Argentinos, but they don't call themselves Americanos, everyone except for disgruntled Mexicans are ok with their citizenship label. Mexicans are in some sort of cheap seat rivalry with their neighbor to the north, instead of being grateful that they can bag up and send their uneducated masses to the US to send back wages to the home country, there is the sense of malagradacimiento, or bitterness, about their circumstances. We owe Mexico nothing, in fact, they owe us for all of the freebies the American taxpayers have doled out to people. Anyone calls me a gringa, I'll call them a mojado.
Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. But as far as being called a gringo, I could really care less. When I'm down there I tell the people in Mexico that they can refer to me as the big gringo. They hesitate, protest and generally refuse because of what they consider a moral issue but after we get around all that meaningless BS, I think they really enjoy calling the big gringo, the big gringo. I get a kick out of it too. I can't figure out all the outrage over a few inconsequential words.
Level 5

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#80 Sep 11, 2013
spud wrote:
<quoted text>Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. But as far as being called a gringo, I could really care less. When I'm down there I tell the people in Mexico that they can refer to me as the big gringo. They hesitate, protest and generally refuse because of what they consider a moral issue but after we get around all that meaningless BS, I think they really enjoy calling the big gringo, the big gringo. I get a kick out of it too. I can't figure out all the outrage over a few inconsequential words.
Typically, when someone is called a gringo/gringa it's meant as an insult, as in 'gringo salado'. What I find ridiculous is Mexican immigrants in the US calling Americans 'gringos', well, that word is what Mexicans would call American tourists who they felt were obnoxious and overbearing, and now its a word they use in the US to insult Americans in our own country, as in 'those gringos are lazy', etc.

I spent summers in Mexico, with my mom's family, and can easily move from one culture to the other, but I have to say, I get tired of defending the US in the US and in Mexico, in Spanish, no less. It would be nice, wouldn't it, if the folks here illegally would even bother to understand our culture and show some respect? Who do they think funds their freebies? Hopefully their president (Nieto) goes through with the tax reforms needed in Mexico and brings some cohesiveness to that dysfunctional government, that might lure some back to their "Mexico lindo y quierido", then they can go home and gripe about how badly they were treated here instead of marching on Washington on MLK day.
Level 5

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#81 Sep 11, 2013
Dee Dee Dee wrote:
<quoted text>
A very large percentage of the poor from south of the border have no identity papers and never had which is one of the reasons they cannot immigrate here legally. They first have to obtain documentation from their own government, which is often difficult and expensive for a poor person born in a mountain shack.
There is also a large group that do have papers from their own government including criminal files and warrants for their arrest. There is an entire criminal culture dedicated to false IDs and our government does not have the resources or the will to verify the ID of 20 million people who have generations of practice at hiding their true ID.
Many people have died and many more will defending you freedoms and to give up even a small part of that freedom out of fear does not honor them.
Mexico has deployed 'mobile consulates' in US cities to provide their citizens here illegally with matricula cards, or ID cards, that they feel legitimizes their stay in the US. Try explaining to them that they can't obtain a credit card or a mortgage with that consular card, at least in most states, not sure about the shamenety hangouts.
spud

Weatherly, PA

#83 Sep 11, 2013
zanoni wrote:
<quoted text>
They don't bother me. I love debating in this forum. I've shut a few of them down already. Only a few of them have any intelligence and do any research. Ninety-eight percent of them just rely on age-old stereo-types. Handed down from numb-skull grand-parents, to numb-skull parents, to numb-skull children. They make me laugh, they really do!!
Some come back to get beat back again. I really look forward to their replies, it's what keeps me going. Hahahahaha!!!!!
That's mighty big talk for a one eyed fat man.

“Work hard at work worth doing.”

Level 10

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#90 Sep 12, 2013
zanoni wrote:
Here's one more tid-bit of info for those who still disagree with me regarding "The United States of America."
I'm assuming you have some money in your pocket. So, pull out a dollar and look at the reverse side, the back side. There you'll see the "The Great Seal." You know the one, it has the pyramid and the eagle.
The Great Seal of the United States has two sides. The more common one, the eagle side, is the front side. The hidden one, the pyramid side, is the back (reverse) side.
Now read the writing right underneath the two sides. It reads "The Great Seal of the United States." America is not on it!!!! The name of this country is "The United States!" And this country is in "America," the continent!
Now look here.
The Great Seal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Seal_of_th...
And here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_of_the_Pres...
Did you notice that the two most important seals of this country say "The United States!" Well did you GRINGO!!!!!!!!!!
Now bow down humbly "one republic," "liberty," 'courtney kleinshshmitt," "no more stupidity," "ima-llis myka ashanti," and the rest of you.
Rico, you have done this lesson before. The USA is part of NORTH America.
spud

Weatherly, PA

#91 Sep 12, 2013
zanoni wrote:
Here's one more tid-bit of info for those who still disagree with me regarding "The United States of America."
I'm assuming you have some money in your pocket. So, pull out a dollar and look at the reverse side, the back side. There you'll see the "The Great Seal." You know the one, it has the pyramid and the eagle.
The Great Seal of the United States has two sides. The more common one, the eagle side, is the front side. The hidden one, the pyramid side, is the back (reverse) side.
Now read the writing right underneath the two sides. It reads "The Great Seal of the United States." America is not on it!!!! The name of this country is "The United States!" And this country is in "America," the continent!
Now look here.
The Great Seal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Seal_of_th...
And here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_of_the_Pres...
Did you notice that the two most important seals of this country say "The United States!" Well did you GRINGO!!!!!!!!!!
Now bow down humbly "one republic," "liberty," 'courtney kleinshshmitt," "no more stupidity," "ima-llis myka ashanti," and the rest of you.
America isn't a continent genius and we refer to the US as America, as an abbreviation for the United States of America.
Dee Dee Dee

Coopersburg, PA

#92 Sep 12, 2013
OneRepublic wrote:
<quoted text>
Mexico has deployed 'mobile consulates' in US cities to provide their citizens here illegally with matricula cards, or ID cards, that they feel legitimizes their stay in the US. Try explaining to them that they can't obtain a credit card or a mortgage with that consular card, at least in most states, not sure about the shamenety hangouts.
A matricula card provides no proof of identity and is not a valid form of I.D. in Mexico let alone the United States. It only proves that a person went to a Mexican consulate, told them what name they wanted on the card and received one. The Mexican government does not verify the actual identity of the person or even if they are a Mexican citizen. Actually sine they are easily counterfeited they do not even prove that a person went to a Mexican consulate to get one.
Dee Dee Dee

Coopersburg, PA

#93 Sep 12, 2013
zanoni wrote:
Back off fools!!!!! You're debating with a MASTER!!!!!
You are confused. Being a masturbator is not the same as being a master debater.

“Peace”

Level 8

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#94 Sep 12, 2013
OneRepublic wrote:
<quoted text>
To call someone a gringo or gringa is to insult. I find it offensive, this is the UNITED STATES of AMERICA, there is no other country in the 'Americas' where people call themselves Americans, they are Mexicans, Guatemaltecos, Cubanos, Dominicanos, Brasilenos, Argentinos, but they don't call themselves Americanos, everyone except for disgruntled Mexicans are ok with their citizenship label. Mexicans are in some sort of cheap seat rivalry with their neighbor to the north, instead of being grateful that they can bag up and send their uneducated masses to the US to send back wages to the home country, there is the sense of malagradacimiento, or bitterness, about their circumstances. We owe Mexico nothing, in fact, they owe us for all of the freebies the American taxpayers have doled out to people. Anyone calls me a gringa, I'll call them a mojado.
The word gringo or gringa isn't anything bad. Why people in America might think it is who knows. No one knows for sure how that word came about but there are several theories. But if you are at all interested in knowing what you are getting all upset about then check out snopes.

http://www.snopes.com/language/stories/gringo...

“Peace”

Level 8

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#95 Sep 12, 2013
Dee Dee Dee wrote:
<quoted text>
A matricula card provides no proof of identity and is not a valid form of I.D. in Mexico let alone the United States. It only proves that a person went to a Mexican consulate, told them what name they wanted on the card and received one. The Mexican government does not verify the actual identity of the person or even if they are a Mexican citizen. Actually sine they are easily counterfeited they do not even prove that a person went to a Mexican consulate to get one.
You're talking crap. The Mexican consulates do in fact require documentation to verify who someone is. They have to show a birth certificate and other documentation. I don't know where you get your information from or if you are just making it up as you go along but it not factual.
Dee Dee Dee

Coopersburg, PA

#96 Sep 12, 2013
_White American_ wrote:
<quoted text>The word gringo or gringa isn't anything bad. Why people in America might think it is who knows. No one knows for sure how that word came about but there are several theories. But if you are at all interested in knowing what you are getting all upset about then check out snopes.
http://www.snopes.com/language/stories/gringo...
There is no such thing as a "bad word". It is how words are used that can be bad. The common usage of the word gringo is as an insult. There was a time when calling a black person colored, boy or even the dreaded “N” word was not an insult or a slur but over time those terms were used to insult just as gringo is today.“Wet back” was a term used by Mexicans to describe those who had just come to this country just as other immigrants were referred to as being “just off the boat”. Again the words were not bad only the intent of those using them.
Dee Dee Dee

Coopersburg, PA

#98 Sep 12, 2013
_White American_ wrote:
<quoted text>You're talking crap. The Mexican consulates do in fact require documentation to verify who someone is. They have to show a birth certificate and other documentation. I don't know where you get your information from or if you are just making it up as you go along but it not factual.
Seems that the FBI and Department of Homeland Security disagree with you.

"The FBI reported that because Mexico lacks a centralized database for their CIDs, they are unable to prevent an individual from receiving multiple CIDs and cannot access information about a CID applicant's identity.[3] An FBI agent said that "Mexican consulates issued CID cards to individuals lacking any proof of identification, as long as they fill out a questionnaire and satisfy the consular official that they are who they claim to be."

"In a 2003 letter to the Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge by the U.S. House Chairmen of the Homeland Security Committee, the Judiciary Committee, the Appropriations Subcommittee on Homeland Security, and the Judiciary Subcommittee on Courts, the Internet, & Intellectual Property, it was written that the Matricula Consular "can be a perfect breeder document for establishing a false identity". They warned that criminals could exploit the cards to conceal their identity as well as launder money and write fraudulent checks. They went on to point out that any acceptance of the cards by the Federal government "compromises our homeland security" by providing an opportunity for terrorists to freely move about the U.S., board planes and transfer funds for terrorist activities."

You could try actually doing research before making a fool of yourself. I have never insulted you but if you want to insult me by posting uninformed BS go right ahead. You just prove my point about uninformed voters.

“Peace”

Level 8

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#99 Sep 12, 2013
teddyr4me wrote:
<quoted text>Rico, you have done this lesson before. The USA is part of NORTH America.
That was an interesting concept that I never thought about. But I guess the America is in reference to being in the Continent of America. Which only takes in the United States.:)
Dee Dee Dee

Coopersburg, PA

#100 Sep 12, 2013

“Peace”

Level 8

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#101 Sep 12, 2013
Dee Dee Dee wrote:
<quoted text>
Seems that the FBI and Department of Homeland Security disagree with you.
"The FBI reported that because Mexico lacks a centralized database for their CIDs, they are unable to prevent an individual from receiving multiple CIDs and cannot access information about a CID applicant's identity.[3] An FBI agent said that "Mexican consulates issued CID cards to individuals lacking any proof of identification, as long as they fill out a questionnaire and satisfy the consular official that they are who they claim to be."
"In a 2003 letter to the Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge by the U.S. House Chairmen of the Homeland Security Committee, the Judiciary Committee, the Appropriations Subcommittee on Homeland Security, and the Judiciary Subcommittee on Courts, the Internet, & Intellectual Property, it was written that the Matricula Consular "can be a perfect breeder document for establishing a false identity". They warned that criminals could exploit the cards to conceal their identity as well as launder money and write fraudulent checks. They went on to point out that any acceptance of the cards by the Federal government "compromises our homeland security" by providing an opportunity for terrorists to freely move about the U.S., board planes and transfer funds for terrorist activities."
You could try actually doing research before making a fool of yourself. I have never insulted you but if you want to insult me by posting uninformed BS go right ahead. You just prove my point about uninformed voters.
Like I said the Consulate does require documentation.

"1. What is the matricula consular?

A Matricula Consular is an official I.D. card, which is issued by the Mexican Government through its Consular Offices.
¾
The document ONLY proves that the bearer is of Mexican nationality and is living outside of Mexico.
2. Requirements to obtain the Matricula Consular:

Applicant must appear in person

Applicant must present an original birth certificate to prove Mexican nationality.

An official government issued photo I.D. to prove identity.

Proof of address (utility bill, lease, etc) under the same name.
3. Secondary requirements:

Telephone number

Next of kin information

If a married woman wishes to use her married name, she must present an original marriage certificate.

In case of a lost or stolen ID the applicant must also provide a police report in order to obtain a new Matricula Consular.
4. Procedure followed when issuing a Matricula Consular:"
They also have to go through two different interviews to verify the truthfullness to their paperwork.

Now in Mexico they do things like the USA did prior to everything being put on data bases. So yes it can be subject to fraud. But so can our data bases for those that are knowledgeable. Or those that are paid off.
Keep in mind that Mexico does have birth certificates that are on offical paper with offical seals.

If I insulted you I appologize for that. It simply bothered me when you said that they don't require documentation to get the Matricular card they do.

“Work hard at work worth doing.”

Level 10

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#102 Sep 12, 2013
_White American_ wrote:
<quoted text>You're talking crap. The Mexican consulates do in fact require documentation to verify who someone is. They have to show a birth certificate and other documentation. I don't know where you get your information from or if you are just making it up as you go along but it not factual.
Actually, it's not crap. The Matricula Consular is not a reliable form of identification because those applying for them can use forged documents to receive them, or the card itself can and has been easily forged. Some people have been found to have several of them in multiple names. Further, the FBI has stated that Mexico does not have a central data bank where the ID's from the 47 Mexican states are stored. The FBI says that a passport is more reliable than the matriula, the trouble is that illlegals won't have one of them.

http://www.fbi.gov/news/testimony/consular-id...

Old link but it does attest to what I have stated.
Level 5

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#103 Sep 12, 2013
zanoni wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly!!! You didn't read my post #53 did you. If you did, everything went in one ear and out the other (figuratively speaking.)
The United States of America implies the country is The United States "of" America! America is the continent, The United States is the country. Did you miss that? I'm sure you did!!!!
Someone else said the United States "of" America implies that the "United States" belongs to "America," NOT that America belongs to the United States! It's not America of the United States. Got that!?
Go back and review post #53.
Techically speaking, there are 2 (dos) continents in the Americas, North and South. Mexico is part of North America, so, they can feel free to call themselves norteamericanos, if they want to get all hissy about it. However, when speaking to people from a global perspective, when they say Americans they aren't talking about Mexicans. If Mexicans want to take the "Ugly American" stigma, more power to them, they've already got the bad neighbor to to the south label going for them.
Level 5

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#104 Sep 12, 2013
Dee Dee Dee wrote:
<quoted text>
Seems that the FBI and Department of Homeland Security disagree with you.
"The FBI reported that because Mexico lacks a centralized database for their CIDs, they are unable to prevent an individual from receiving multiple CIDs and cannot access information about a CID applicant's identity.[3] An FBI agent said that "Mexican consulates issued CID cards to individuals lacking any proof of identification, as long as they fill out a questionnaire and satisfy the consular official that they are who they claim to be."
"In a 2003 letter to the Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge by the U.S. House Chairmen of the Homeland Security Committee, the Judiciary Committee, the Appropriations Subcommittee on Homeland Security, and the Judiciary Subcommittee on Courts, the Internet, & Intellectual Property, it was written that the Matricula Consular "can be a perfect breeder document for establishing a false identity". They warned that criminals could exploit the cards to conceal their identity as well as launder money and write fraudulent checks. They went on to point out that any acceptance of the cards by the Federal government "compromises our homeland security" by providing an opportunity for terrorists to freely move about the U.S., board planes and transfer funds for terrorist activities."
You could try actually doing research before making a fool of yourself. I have never insulted you but if you want to insult me by posting uninformed BS go right ahead. You just prove my point about uninformed voters.
While living in Chicago, I volunteered to take someone to the mobile consulate, you've never seen such a discouraged group of people in your life, their own government representatives were treating them like cattle, and acted as if the US was responsible for the predicament they were in, and not their failed government. The matricula card was being passed out like candy, because the sooner they got them the ID the sooner they'd become OUR problem. They didn't even verify (nor did they have the technology, didn't even fingerprint or check databases) they just took pictures and gave a cursory glance at the docs, sending them on their way.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Immigration Reform Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Should Katrina be banned? 6 min Katrina 219
Is George a lonley troll who needs a man? 9 min Katrina 2
Rose's Pub (Mar '10) 29 min Well Well 147,639
Freebird is a slow kid. Yes or No? 42 min Supreme Leader 4
News Former US Immigration Official Criticizes Borde... 57 min Wildchild 1
News Combating the threat of white supremacy 2 hr Retired SOF 280
Has Donald Trump Already Failed Us? (Nov '16) 2 hr Crack Baby 10,848
More from around the web