Bjorn Lomborg: Climate-Change Misdirection

Full story: Wall Street Journal

In his second inaugural address on Monday, President Obama laudably promised to "respond to the threat of climate change." Unfortunately, when the president described the urgent nature of the threat-the "devastating impact of raging fires, and crippling drought, and more powerful storms"-the scary examples suggested that he is contemplating poor ... (more)
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21 - 40 of 60 Comments Last updated Feb 11, 2013
PHD

Bertram, TX

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#22
Feb 10, 2013
 
SpaceBlues wrote:
<quoted text>Then again:
<quoted text>Read my post above.
We may have to change your title to walloped again and again. Your running neck and neck with the wallop10 AKA walloped again and again.
PHD

Bertram, TX

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#23
Feb 10, 2013
 
SpaceBlues wrote:
<quoted text>Then again:
<quoted text>Read my post above.
You must be a very lonely TROLL. Did the spaced out spacedoutblues manage to jog the lone brain cell today?

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

Since: Jan 10

http://www.panoramio.com/user/

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#24
Feb 10, 2013
 

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SpaceBlues wrote:
<quoted text>Then again:
<quoted text>Read my post above.
Never mind I understand now... Your not very intelligent.... I thought there for a moment you might actually had some rational thoughts on the subject that were worth my time.... Guess not...
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

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#25
Feb 10, 2013
 

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Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
[delete]
While I am a Engineer by profession (retired) my back ground in physics, biology, chemistry and several other sciences is pretty good...
Specifically again what makes my question invalid? Would it only be invalid if you can invalidate it?
And Fossil fuel burning does pollute... But that has nothing to do with the subject of this thread.... Electric Car Pollute, Windmills Pollute, Solar Panels Pollute, your computer pollutes.... The subject at hand is if Global Weather is caused by Human activities ... Keep up....
.." While[sic] I am a[sic] Engineer[sic] by profession (retired)[sic] my back[sick ground[sic] in physics, biology, chemistry[sic] and several[sic] other[sic] sciences[sic] is pretty good."..

Wow you learn English first.

The subject is climate change [caused by man-made greenhouse gas emissions, which is pollution made by fossil fuel burning].

QED, you are too retired, q'less.
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

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#26
Feb 10, 2013
 

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Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
Never mind[sic] I understand now... Your[sic] not very intelligent.... I thought there for a moment you might actually had some rational thoughts on the subject that were[sic] worth my time.... Guess not...
Your English sucks.

So does your science..

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

Since: Jan 10

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#27
Feb 10, 2013
 

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SpaceBlues wrote:
<quoted text>Your English sucks.
So does your science..
At which point did I allude to being an English Major? But continue to side step.... You haven't presented any science, I haven't presented any science ... I asked a question for you to be specific about and you haven't presented your scientific argument so I have not responded with a science based rebuttal... But feel free to present your scientific rational for your statements and I will be glad to respond... Until then your just a useful idiot that keeps making my point and not knowing you are doing so... T.S.T.K.H.S.T.A. disorder on full display in your posts....
PHD

Bertram, TX

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#28
Feb 10, 2013
 

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SpaceBlues wrote:
<quoted text>Then again:
<quoted text>Read my post above.
You must be a very lonely TROLL. Did the spaced out spacedoutblues manage to jog the lone brain cell today?
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

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#29
Feb 10, 2013
 

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Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
At which point did I allude to being an English Major? But continue to side step.... You haven't presented any science, I haven't presented any science ... I asked a question for you to be specific about and you haven't presented your scientific argument so I have not responded with a science based rebuttal... But feel free to present your scientific rational for your statements and I will be glad to respond... Until then your just a useful idiot that keeps making my point and not knowing you are doing so... T.S.T.K.H.S.T.A. disorder on full display in your posts....
Read my posts above.

Btw, I gave $ at the office.
PHD

Bertram, TX

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#30
Feb 10, 2013
 

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SpaceBlues wrote:
<quoted text>Read my posts above.
Btw, I gave $ at the office.
You must be a very lonely TROLL. Did the spaced out spacedoutblues manage to jog the lone brain cell today?

Since: Jan 13

Fairfax, VA

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#31
Feb 10, 2013
 

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Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
Be Specific... Without coping and pasting appeals to authority tell me in your words your arguments that makes you think man has anything to do with global weather conditions.....
I read science. This is a science topic.

http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence

Maybe you think you can do a better job than them putting a rocket on the moon too.

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

Since: Jan 10

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#32
Feb 10, 2013
 

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Wallop10 wrote:
<quoted text>
I read science. This is a science topic.
http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence
Maybe you think you can do a better job than them putting a rocket on the moon too.
Then you better call them fellers up and tell them they are still using a Proven Fraudulent Chart....

That Chart is the classic Hockey Stick Chart that was based on the data and claims of Michael Mann and has been shown to be based on error, admitted error by the IPCC but still being put forth as a basis for the claims of those that make their living from the claims...

http://a-sceptical-mind.com/the-rise-and-fall...
http://www.sustainableoregon.com/hockeystick....

But that all set aside ask your sources one Question... In the Data what comes First.... Co2 Rise followed by increase in Temps... Or Temps Rise followed by Co2 Rise....

That Question has actually been answered and really should settle the Argument on Man caused climate change... Co2 Lags Global Temps... As Temps Rise due to solar cycles the oceans release massive quantities of Co2... 1000's of times more than Humans over all of the Industrial Period.... Add to that the release of Co2 from carbonaceous rock when it gets warmer and the increase in decomposition of organic debris and the Co2 Lag is easily explainable....

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/07/23/new-res...

“My Life Is A Shell Game”

Since: May 07

Lapeer, MI

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#33
Feb 10, 2013
 

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SpaceBlues wrote:
Liars like you lie even in Topix.
Puppies like you lie to yourselves. That's many times worse.

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

Since: Jan 10

http://www.panoramio.com/user/

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#34
Feb 10, 2013
 

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shinningelectr0n wrote:
<quoted text>
Puppies like you lie to yourselves. That's many times worse.
Well that may be a bit harsh... I think the truth is as I have said before it has become a religion... Puppies like him Believe instead of attempting the act of thinking... Most have no idea what the data is or how it's used to bolster preconceived notions... They seem to never question Motives of their priests and clerics...

NASA is a good example and I'm generally a Big NASA Fan but after they beat down their Head Climatologist and made him toe the line I lost any faith in their non biased positions on the matter... The Chief said in front of Congress "We have no Idea what constitutes the Best Climate" after which he was called about every name in the book until he backed down and went back into lock step.... Fact is NASA's Climate division gets funding if they seek to show Man Did It... If any of their scientist attempt to write in opposition they find they no longer are funded and soon no longer employed ... No One gets Funding for research seeking to show man has nothing to do with it and those that attempt to do so find they are excommunicated from data sources, papers go unpublished, and they are basically called Blasphemers.... But B'Levers Believe....

“My Life Is A Shell Game”

Since: May 07

Lapeer, MI

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#35
Feb 10, 2013
 

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Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
Well that may be a bit harsh... I think the truth is as I have said before it has become a religion... Puppies like him Believe instead of attempting the act of thinking... Most have no idea what the data is or how it's used to bolster preconceived notions... They seem to never question Motives of their priests and clerics...
NASA is a good example and I'm generally a Big NASA Fan but after they beat down their Head Climatologist and made him toe the line I lost any faith in their non biased positions on the matter... The Chief said in front of Congress "We have no Idea what constitutes the Best Climate" after which he was called about every name in the book until he backed down and went back into lock step.... Fact is NASA's Climate division gets funding if they seek to show Man Did It... If any of their scientist attempt to write in opposition they find they no longer are funded and soon no longer employed ... No One gets Funding for research seeking to show man has nothing to do with it and those that attempt to do so find they are excommunicated from data sources, papers go unpublished, and they are basically called Blasphemers.... But B'Levers Believe....
NASA is now Science On A Leash.

When the Boy Messiah appointed Charles F. Bolden as NASA Administrator, he ran his big racist mouth immediately calling for more Muslims inside of NASA. This, sadly, is the state of Science today under this present administration.

Science needs a new home far from the monsters who want to control it.

Since: Jan 13

Fairfax, VA

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#36
Feb 10, 2013
 

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Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
Then you better call them fellers up and tell them they are still using a Proven Fraudulent Chart....
That Chart is the classic Hockey Stick Chart that was based on the data and claims of Michael Mann and has been shown to be based on error, admitted error by the IPCC but still being put forth as a basis for the claims of those that make their living from the claims...
You are reading pure lying right wing crap

Perhaps you are not aware of the real history of the hockey stick rabid political attacks going on

#1 In 1998 Michael Mann FIRST issued his original paper on his first reconstruction of tree rings to try and determine world wide temperatures.
-- This paper only went back to the last 1000 years [he excluded the period after that]
-- His first paper said was a first pass and had uncertainties in it. Indeed the TITLE of his paper was:

** "Northern Hemisphere temperatures during the past millennium: INFERENCES, UNCERTAINTIES, and LIMITATIONS" **

In his paper Mann said "more widespread high-resolution data are needed before more confident conclusions can be reached and that the uncertainties were the point of the article."[59]

MEANING: the paper itself talks about uncertainties and problems with proxy data.

#2 THEN what happened is there was a circus Republican panel going for all out political attacks.

--In 2003, Willie Soon and Sallie Baliunas argued against this pattern in a paper which was quickly dismissed as faulty in the Soon and Baliunas controversy.[1]

--For example, Republican Jim Inhofe made a Senate speech citing Soon and Baliunas to support his view "that man-made global warming is the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the American people".[4]

--Republican panels were insisting Mann needed 100% certainty, else his work was trash - and that he was claiming this certainty.

-- in 2003, Stephen McIntyre and Ross McKitrick published a paper questioning the statistical methods used in the Mann et al paper, and there was continued debate on these issues. Hans von Storch regards that paper as of little consequence, and believed his paper of 2004 to be the first significant criticism.[5]

--Further reviews showed statistical problems were very minor and irrelevant.

#3 At the request of Congress, a panel of scientists convened by the National Research Council was set up, which reported in 2006 supporting Mann's findings with some qualifications, including agreeing that there were some statistical failings but these had little effect on the result.[6] U.S. Rep. Joe Barton and U.S. Rep. Ed Whitfield requested Edward Wegman to set up a team of statisticians to investigate, and they supported the view that there were statistical failings, although their report has itself been criticized on several grounds.

#4 Mann also gathered additional samples and the hockey stick shape held --i.e., temperatures were higher now than in the last 1000 years

--other independent studies using other proxies were done (glacier length, boreholes, etc)- that show the same unprecedented warming in the last century that Mann's construction showed.

#5 the National Academy of Science concluded (see their report 2006 report) to assess the validity of temperature reconstructions in Mann's hockey stick.

** The NAS report concluded that Mann's hockey stick (increase in long term temperature) was essentially correct."
it found that the last decades were the WARMEST since the last four hundred years with high statistical certainty**; and it was also likely higher during the last 1100 years of proxies studies (but with less statistical certainty being possible)
Here is a graph that shows the results of the other independent studies which ALL show the high climb in temperatures during the last decades.

http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php...

And further studies have confirmed the hockey stick shape after this.

Try reading a REAL science source

Since: Jan 13

Fairfax, VA

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#37
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NewScientist has a series on global warming for the Perplexed that tries to offset the right wing misinformation campaign.

Here is there conclusion on the Hockey Stick.

New Scientist has a nice summary of this. Here is there final comments

Update: as suggested by the academy in its 2006 report, Michael Mann and his colleagues have reconstructed northern hemisphere temperatures for the past 2000 years using a broader set of proxies than was available for the original study and updated measurements from the recent past.
The new reconstruction has been generated using two statistical methods, both different to that used in the original study. Like other temperature reconstructions done since 2001 (see graph), it shows greater variability than the original hockey stick. Yet again, though, the key conclusion is the same: it's hotter now than it has been for at least 1000 years.

In fact, independent evidence, from ice cores and sea sediments for instance, suggest the last time the planet approached this degree of warmth was during the interglacial period preceding the last ice age over 100,000 years ago. It might even be hotter now than it has been for at least a million years.
Further back in the past, though, it certainly has been hotter - and the world has been a very different place. The crucial point is that our modern civilisation has been built on the basis of the prevailing climate and sea levels. As these change, it will cause major problems.

See all climate myths in our special feature.>>

taken from
Newscientist: Climate myths: The 'hockey stick' graph has been proven wrong

<<In fact, later studies support the key conclusion: the world is warmer now than it has been for at least 1000 years

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11646

Since: Jan 13

Fairfax, VA

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#38
Feb 10, 2013
 

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Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>

That Question has actually been answered and really should settle the Argument on Man caused climate change... Co2 Lags Global Temps... As Temps Rise due to solar cycles the oceans release massive quantities of Co2... 1000's of times more than Humans over all of the Industrial Period.... Add to that the release of Co2 from carbonaceous rock when it gets warmer and the increase in decomposition of organic debris and the Co2 Lag is easily explainable....

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/07/23/new-res...
You realize Watts has a journalism degree. Was able to get a weatherman job in the days when you could just be a tv personality with no science background.

==========

So he left out the scientific explanation, which I will give here.

Step #1 First look at the ice cores.

Below at this link is a picture from the Vostok ice core.
The blue (top graph) is the temperature; the green (middle graph) is CO2.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vostok_Peti...

Notice, there is something like a 98% correlation of temperature with CO2 (top 2 graphs).

that is, 1,000 years out of the roughly 100,000 year Milankovitch cycles is about .1% of the time the CO2 and temperature do not map very closely together.

You see, other 99.8/9% of the time, temperature and CO2 from ice cores are very much synchronized.

**If we rounded to whole percentages, this would be 100% of the time**
Here’s how Scientists explain it.

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstrac...

Summary:
It takes a .1% lead time for the earth's changes in orbit, wobbles, and rotational tilt (which increase sunlight) to melt sea ice and glaciers.

The ice loss has a positive feedback effect because there is now less ice reflecting sunlight back into space (decreased albedo).
When the oceans warms, it releases more CO2 in the air, and likely decreases biological activity (from phytoplankton, etc).

This further warms the earth. The rest of the roughly 99.9% of the time the CO2 and temperature cycles are synchonized (but only about 1000 years lead time of CO2 -- ie the .1% for the time to melt the ice.)

This means it was the increase in CO2 (triggered by the initial Milankovitch cycles) that set the rest of the warming cycle going.

Currently it is man-made CO2 driving the cycle, not natural Milankovitch cycles.

If it were just natural cycles, we should be in a cooling period by the way, not a warming one... Something else you will read on a SCIENCE site, but never on a right wing misinformation website like WattsUp.

Regards

Since: Jan 13

Fairfax, VA

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#39
Feb 10, 2013
 

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shinningelectr0n wrote:
<quoted text>
NASA is now Science On A Leash.
When the Boy Messiah appointed Charles F. Bolden as NASA Administrator, he ran his big racist mouth immediately calling for more Muslims inside of NASA. This, sadly, is the state of Science today under this present administration.
Science needs a new home far from the monsters who want to control it.
No. Bolden had a presentation in a Muslim country where he tried to remind them they had a science background they should be proud of instead of a right wing fundi authoritarian governments.

It had nothing to do with recruiting NASA employees. You want us to scream to Arabs we want to kill all of you?

Maybe you want us in WW III.

Since: Jan 13

Fairfax, VA

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#40
Feb 10, 2013
 

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Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>

NASA is a good example and I'm generally a Big NASA Fan but after they beat down their Head Climatologist and made him toe the line I lost any faith in their non biased positions on the matter... The Chief said in front of Congress "We have no Idea what constitutes the Best Climate" after which he was called about every name in the book until he backed down and went back into lock step....
James Hansen was their head climatologist. During the Bush administration, he Bush inserted a young 20 something political appointee to edit his final paper warning of the dangers. Hansen went to the press and Bush was forced to back down.

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This pretty much sums it up:

**Organizations that say AGW is a FACT**
* National Academy of Sciences, United States [and NAS of every country]
* National Aeronautics & Space Administration (NASA)
* National Oceanic & Atmospheric Administration (NOAA)
* National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR)
* National Science Foundation (NSF)
* American Institute of Physics (AIP)
* American Medical Association (AMA)
* Smithsonian Institution
* International Arctic Science Committee
* Arctic Council
* American Meteorological Society (AMS)
* American Physical Society (APS)
* U.S. Geological Survey (USGS)
* U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)
* The Royal Society of the United Kingdom
* Royal Meteorological Society, UK
* British Antarctic Survey
* European Science Foundation
* Chinese Academy of Sciences
* Académie des Sciences, France
* Institute of Biology, UK
* Canadian Foundation for Climate and Atmospheric Sciences
* Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society
* European Federation of Geologists
* European Geosciences Union
* European Physical Society
* U.S. Agency for International Development
* United States Department of Agriculture
* National Institute of Standards and Technology
* United States Department of Defense
* United States Department of Energy
* National Institutes of Health
* United States Department of State
* United States Department of Transportation
* University Corporation for Atmospheric Research
* African Academy of Sciences
* Australian Academy of Sciences
* Royal Flemish Academy of Belgium for Sciences
and the Arts
* Academia Brasileira de Ciéncias
* Cameroon Academy of Sciences
* Royal Society of Canada
* Caribbean Academy of Sciences
* Ghana Academy of Arts and Sciences
* Deutsche Akademie der Naturforscher Leopoldina
of Germany
* Indonesian Academy of Sciences
* Royal Irish Academy
* Accademia nazionale delle scienze of Italy
* Indian National Science Academy
* Science Council of Japan
* Kenya National Academy of Sciences
* Madagascar's National Academy of Arts,
* Letters and Sciences
* Academy of Sciences Malaysia
* Academia Mexicana de Ciencias
* Nigerian Academy of Sciences
* Royal Society of New Zealand
* Polish Academy of Sciences
* Russian Academy of Sciences
*l'Académie des Sciences et Techniques
du Sénégal
* Academy of Science of South Africa
* Sudan Academy of Sciences
* Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences
* Tanzania Academy of Sciences
* Turkish Academy of Sciences
* Uganda National Academy of Sciences
* Zambia Academy of Sciences
* American Academy of Pediatrics
* American Association for the Advancement
of Science
* American Association of Wildlife Veterinarians
* American Astronomical Society
* American Chemical Society
* American College of Preventive Medicine
* American Geophysical Union
* American Public Health Association
* American Quaternary Association
* American Institute of Biological Sciences
* American Society of Agronomy
* American Society for Microbiology
* American Society of Plant Biologists
* American Statistical Association
* Association of Ecosystem Research Centers
* Botanical Society of America
* Crop Science Society of America
* Ecological Society of America
* Federation of American Scientists
* Geological Society of America
* National Association of Geoscience Teachers
* Natural Science Collections Alliance
* Organization of Biological Field Stations
* Society of American Foresters
* Society for Industrial and Applied Mathematics
* Society of Systematic Biologists
* Soil Science Society of America
* Australian Coral Reef Society
* Australian Medical Association
* Australian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society
* Engineers Australia
* Federation of Australian Scientific and Technological Societies
* Geological Society of Australia
* International Association for Great Lakes Research
* International Union for Quaternary Research
* International Union of Geodesy and Geophysics
* Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change

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