Gore says transfer to clean energy vital for U.S.

[Larry]

hoopsnow wrote:

<quoted text>
Furthermore, there is a three year backlog of cranes(used to put up windmills) which require parts identical to those used to produce wind turbines. Making matters worse, a dramatic increase in demand for windmills began in 2007 and is certain to increase in light of boone pickens advertisements' effect on the demand for
windmills around the world. Furthermore, small
wind farms of three or four windmills can't
even get on waiting lists. Future waiting lists
may be five years or more. That doesn't include
the time it will take to build the windmills
and transmission lines. With the vast demand
for oil to run 250,000,000 cars, the u.S. Will
need between 30 to 50 years to replace 100% of
fossil fuels with alternative energy. The u.S.
Needs to invest in the development of all
alternative fuels.

Ah, so your unsourced copy and paste job actually admits that we can transition from fossil fuels to alternatives in 30 to 50 years? Interesting, now tell us why we should invest in drilling for oil in sensitive areas instead of building wind turbine factories and solar thermal factories galore since the Dept. of Energy estimates that any additional U.S. offshore drilling would not have a significant impact until 20 years from now, if at all?

I don't agree with Gore's time frame, but if we can switch to 100% renewables in 30, 40, or even 50 years then we will have achieved something truly great, will be completely energy independent, will have saved our economy by creating tens of millions of jobs, and will have cheaper energy than ever before, in turn leading to greater prosperity for the middle class than ever before.

BTW, regarding your backlog predictions.... Siemens is tripling its wind power turbine manufacturing capacity by 2011 so your point is moot.

And do you even realize that this documented boom in wind turbine orders proves your point wrong that all the research has been for naught?

If Bush/Cheney had not been shilling for Big Oil all this time, then we could already have an upgraded grid and be way ahead in the game. Instead, we are behind.

I will be voting for Obama so that he can try and clean up this incompetent, corrupt mess of an energy policy that Bush/Cheney have left us.

Larry,
Independent TX voter

[Fun Facts]

Larry wrote:

The ignorance of so many supposedly patriotic Americans in regards to the realities of Global Warming never ceases to amaze me.
In 1988 I wrote a 5 page paper for a journalism class about the depletion of the ozone layer and global warming and discovered that many scientists were issuing stark warnings even back then. This was before Gore picked up on the issue yet many of you denialists run around screaming that it is a scam perpetrated by Gore and ignore the FACT that 95% or more of the world's climatologists consider Global Warming to be a very serious problem.
These scientists don't care what Gore thinks. They just do their research and report their findings to us.
The saddest thing is that you guys don't even realize that this is a huge opportunity for us, that solar, wind and other renewable power technologies are advancing at breakneck speeds, continually coming down in cost, and will very likely be able to provide us with cheaper energy than we've ever had before in the not so distant future, possibly even by 2020. And it'd be clean and 100% American energy to boot.... now why would anyone in their right mind be against that?
There are plenty of sites where one can keep track of the latest tech developments, I encourage you to read up and inform yourselves:
http://www.nextenergynews.com/
Larry,
Independent TX voter

I do not think you would find one person opposed to creating alternative sources of energy. Well I take that back, we have environmentalists who are trying to stop us from putting solar farms on our public lands.

Most of us support energy from alternative sources. I do not support carbon credit trading. The purpose of the AGWs at the political level is to transfer wealth to developing countries. They must convince the public that there is a crisis so we will pay. There is no crisis.

[Christopher]

Fun Facts wrote:

<quoted text>
What evidence has you seen that convinces you that there is manmade global warming?

There isn't any. Even the people in the climate change scientists arena are coming back to the conclusion that the ONLY thing that causes warming or cooling of the earth is an massive asteriod impact or massive volcano eruptions for cooling, and the Sun for warming.

[Christopher]

Larry wrote:

<quoted text>
Sorry, you are wrong, and since you obviously are copy and pasting a pre-fabricated, dishonest talking points memo I'm not going to respond to it further except to state that basically all associations of climatologists worldwide have stated that it is a serious problem and that I will trust their expert, EDUCATED opinions over yours any day of the week.
Larry,
Independent TX voter

Educated? You are seriously deluded. Look at the climatologists who in the 1970's, were talking about Global COOLING! Frankly, I don't trust climatologists because the weather system on this planet is a SERIOUSLY chaotic system, almost impossible for the long term to predict what it is going to do.

Add to that, we have STILL been coming out of a 'little ice age' in the 1800's, and there's no big deal here with warming. If anything, we are getting to where we were back in the 1700's and about 500 years earlier than that.

Basically, getting back to the NORMAL, hot temperatures we have around the world.

[Larry]

Fun Facts wrote:

<quoted text>
I do not think you would find one person opposed to creating alternative sources of energy. Well I take that back, we have environmentalists who are trying to stop us from putting solar farms on our public lands.
Most of us support energy from alternative sources. I do not support carbon credit trading. The purpose of the AGWs at the political level is to transfer wealth to developing countries. They must convince the public that there is a crisis so we will pay. There is no crisis.

Sorry, I disagree.

I see quite a few nuts ranting and raving about how drilling for mythical vast oil reserves is the solution to all our problems, the proverbial maguc bullet that, sadly, only exists in their minds while they continuously denigrate renewables and willfully ignore the progress in economies of scale and massive technological advancements that have been made in that area in the last decade.

A lot of these people seem so indoctrinated and so closed to receiving new data that I have to assume that they have fallen prey to the paid shills and pseudo journalists that have been beating big oil's and big energy's drum for decades now. It is a well-known fact that big oil and big energy funded global warming denialists on a massive scale.

I also disagree with your take on the carbon tax. Ideally, a carbon tax is designed to help industries curb the pollution they emit and to support clean forms of energy. They either reduce the pollution that they emit or buy offsetting "tax credits" from companies that are cleaner, thus encouraging our industries to be both cleaner and more efficient. And tbh, I don't have a problem with our industries becoming cleaner and more efficient, as it will not only provide us all with a better quality of life but also make our companies more competitive on a global scale, ie. allow them to have products and technologies that are sought after in other countries instead of just producing outdated junk that nobody anywhere wants to buy.

A simple example:

Hummer's ain't going to sell well in most countries but a Chevy Volt would sell like crazy.

Larry,
Independent TX voter

[Larry]

Whatever, guy.

Why don't you tell us who you would rather trust than thousands and thousands of climatologists worldwide who spend decades studying this after first having invested 7 to 8 years of their life in order to become competent in the field?

What's next? You going to tell me that the climatologists in England, France, Germany, Australia, The U.S., Japan, Italy, and many, many other places have all been bought off by Al Gore??

Scientists are generally very educated, sincere individuals who dedicate a large part of their lives to studying matters that most of us have a hard time understanding.

As I said before, when doing research in college in 1988, I read about Global Warming in scientific magazines, way before it was on the radar screen for most people.

And the worrying part is that the predictions that they made then have not only come true, but the pace of events actually is faster than they predicted then.

That's not really a big surprise, since scientists generally tend to be cautious with their predictions, but it is nonetheless worrisome.

Larry,
Independent TX voter

Christopher wrote:

<quoted text>
Educated? You are seriously deluded. Look at the climatologists who in the 1970's, were talking about Global COOLING! Frankly, I don't trust climatologists because the weather system on this planet is a SERIOUSLY chaotic system, almost impossible for the long term to predict what it is going to do.
Add to that, we have STILL been coming out of a 'little ice age' in the 1800's, and there's no big deal here with warming. If anything, we are getting to where we were back in the 1700's and about 500 years earlier than that.
Basically, getting back to the NORMAL, hot temperatures we have around the world.

[Errol Smythe]

There is nothing strange in finding alternative energy sources that are renewable instead of a wasting asset as fossil fuels. Yes, fossil fuels are a wasting asset that proportionally increases in price at the the fuel pump as world wide stocks are being depleted.
World economies have to be weaned off fossil fuel dependence much like a child is weaned off it's mother's milk.

Alternative Renewable Energy technology is not fiction is is reality. There is solar power, wind power and hydroelectric power all of which can be translated to clean energy and drastically reduce carbon emissions thereby keeping global warming in check.

As you know Nature has it's own bio technology to purify the air.Every school child knows of phototsynthesis whereby plants through natural bio-chemical clean air technology diligently extract carbon dioxide out of the polluted atmosphere and convert it into carbohydrates like starch and glucose and fructose etc and release oxygen as a by product into the atmosphere.

Every country should embark on a major tree planting excercise and plant trees in identified areas .In Africa, desertification can be reversed by investing in irrigation of both trees and grass.The same days that are used to irrigate the dams can also be harnessed for hydroelectricity.

The unutilised land in strategic areas may be converted to Solar Farms to harness solar energy.In other suitable areas wind farms can harvest the wind energy.The hydro-electricity, solar and wind generated electricity can all be fed into a National Grid under a meter system so that such privately owned clean energy sources may be fed into the National Energy Grid System and the Energy Units monitored and sold to the National Clean Energy Power Systems Body.

Investment and Employment oppurtunities will have a ripple effect on National Economies. Unemployment figures will decrease. Crime Statistic rates will decline.National Ecomies will be able to devote more time and money to other clean air projects instead of constantly fighting high unemployment, high crime, high immigration etc etc.

New technology for electric cars running totally on electricity will see the death nell of fossil fuel dependence . The reduction of vehicles using fossil fuels will see less carbon dioxide emissions. There are vehicles running on compressed air !!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

There are cars running on water!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Chevrolet Volt is an electric car !!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Less carbon dioxide emissions will be a nail in the coffin for the worse case scenario of climate change. Errol Smythe

[Fun Facts]

1988 is when Hansen went before congress. I graduated college well before that time. Global cooling was the acare as we were putting so much smog into the air we would block the sun.

We did have too much smog, we saw pictures of LA on the TV regularly. And in fact we had polluted rivers. We have cleaned up smog and polluted rivers and are better for it.

When global warming came along I was ready to jump on. I had lived through the smog. But then I saw the "hockey stick" graph. I knew, because I know history, that the graph was wrong. I began to research to determine if we had global warming and found none.

What evidence have you seen that has convinced you that there is global warming created by man?

[Errol Smythe]

There is nothing strange in finding alternative energy sources that are renewable instead of a wasting asset as fossil fuels. Yes, fossil fuels are a wasting asset that proportionally increases in price at the the fuel pump as world wide stocks are being depleted.
World economies have to be weaned off fossil fuel dependence much like a child is weaned off it's mother's milk.

Alternative Renewable Energy technology is not fiction is is reality. There is solar power, wind power and hydroelectric power all of which can be translated to clean energy and drastically reduce carbon emissions thereby keeping global warming in check.

As you know Nature has it's own bio technology to purify the air.Every school child knows of phototsynthesis whereby plants through natural bio-chemical clean air technology diligently extract carbon dioxide out of the polluted atmosphere and convert it into carbohydrates like starch and glucose and fructose etc and release oxygen as a by product into the atmosphere.

Every country should embark on a major tree planting excercise and plant trees in identified areas .In Africa, desertification can be reversed by investing in irrigation of both trees and grass.The same water that is used to irrigate the dams can also be harnessed for hydroelectricity.

The unutilised land in strategic areas may be converted to Solar Farms to harness solar energy.In other suitable areas wind farms can harvest the wind energy.The hydro-electricity, solar and wind generated electricity can all be fed into a National Grid under a meter system so that such privately owned clean energy sources may be fed into the National Energy Grid System and the Energy Units monitored and sold to the National Clean Energy Power Systems Body.

Investment and Employment oppurtunities will have a ripple effect on National Economies. Unemployment figures will decrease. Crime Statistic rates will decline.National Ecomies will be able to devote more time and money to other clean air projects instead of constantly fighting high unemployment, high crime, high immigration etc etc.

New technology for electric cars running totally on electricity will see the death nell of fossil fuel dependence . The reduction of vehicles using fossil fuels will see less carbon dioxide emissions. There are vehicles running on compressed air !!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

There are cars running on water!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Chevrolet Volt is an electric car !!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Less carbon dioxide emissions will be a nail in the coffin for the worse case scenario of climate change. Errol Smythe

[BEAN51]

These posts are really good...all of them.like the parable of the blind men trying to describe an elephant.All are correct,and all are wrong.
Each is dwelling on one piece of the problem.just like us.

My focus,or piece of the "elephant" is national security.The eternal race for global power.Its going on now.

With the earths population growing,to numbers that the Earth cannot support,formally countries who were not users of energy,are now exploding! We all want the earths natural resources.

So there is competition for this energy.Supply and demand.A basic rule is in play as it always was.

Lets not forget major wars of unlimited destruction are over land,natural resources,as well as Ideology.

From all over the world now the beginnings of the War is in progress.

Newly evolving countries ,consisting of large populations are clamoring for the good life. A life ,many countries in the Western ,created,enjoys,and has become a model to be emulated by all nations.

Not only energy being the greatest need,but ,as mentioned,our very waste,becoming a world problem.

I do not know what the answer is.Some in the Western world want to alter the course of lifestyles.Most of the word wants to do the same,however with out serous regards to our earth.We at least debate our problems,others feel now is not the time for them,they are growing.Won't stop now.They say!!

A half effort to try to take actions to save our world,that is only by the West,and not to include the vast East,is self defeating.No one wins.

Today,the pendulum in the US is swinging to the left.Along with those concepts of life.At some point it will swing to the right.This as it always has done!

If word conditions are not improved,and if we ,the West,are declining because of energy,if food gets to be a problem,the people will not stand for this.

I fear the Drums of War will happen.

Sit back and look at he players.All have nuclear weapons.All are determined to continue to progress in their nations destiny,all will not be deterred.

Those who have the least energy,will be the aggressors,those who need energy to continue their level of life,will also be the aggressors.

Not a pleasant picture for most alive today.The level of energy and life is starting to deteriorate in The US,and in fairness the Western world.

A united Western World,against a likewise Eastern world,can result in No world,at least as we know it.

Space,energy,power,control,are the life blood,of a successful nation.

That nation who achieves that status,rules the world.Maby,later, then in their luxury of success,their people fat,their goals achieved,they will then start to worry about their environment. Like the US is doing now.A luxury!

However the hungry nations are not!
An un-united earth on many different courses. Which can lead to the destruction of all!

Lets face it,no slogans,easy answers,threats,fear,will solve this problem.Its going to be up to the winner of this delema who will set the course for humanity.
Hope it will not be too late!

[upwithbiofuels]

FOSSIL FUELS have already caused many wars and as their price increases more wars will be fought. It's not just a matter of climate change. Saddam invaded Kuwait because of FOSSIL FUELS and then H. W. Bush put our army on the desserts of Saudi Arabia to take the Kuwaiti oil fields back and in so doing he happened to offend a guy named Osama Bin Laden. The world not just the US needs to wean itself off of FOSSIL FUELS.
The first cellulosic ethanol plant is being built in Georgia and will start producing ethanol from forest wastes next year. I said forest wastes not corn so quit using corn ethanol to give BIOFUELS a bad name. The technology exists now to produce fuel from not only forest waste but wheat straw, corn cobs and stover, switch grass, algae, municipal yard wastes, etc.
We have to slow the dollars going to the middle east. This should be the number one priority of the next administration.

[Larry]

upwithbiofuels wrote:

FOSSIL FUELS have already caused many wars and as their price increases more wars will be fought. It's not just a matter of climate change. Saddam invaded Kuwait because of FOSSIL FUELS and then H. W. Bush put our army on the desserts of Saudi Arabia to take the Kuwaiti oil fields back and in so doing he happened to offend a guy named Osama Bin Laden. The world not just the US needs to wean itself off of FOSSIL FUELS.
The first cellulosic ethanol plant is being built in Georgia and will start producing ethanol from forest wastes next year. I said forest wastes not corn so quit using corn ethanol to give BIOFUELS a bad name. The technology exists now to produce fuel from not only forest waste but wheat straw, corn cobs and stover, switch grass, algae, municipal yard wastes, etc.
We have to slow the dollars going to the middle east. This should be the number one priority of the next administration.

I agree that second and third generation biofuels should be a big part of the equation. Although I think that our cars will be going all electric in the next decade, planes, trucks, and heavy machinery will still need other fuels and could easily all be powered by second generation biofuels.

In Germany they already have a pretty big beta test plant up and running and are going to have a major BTL biofuel refinery producing 200 to 250 thousand tons of BTL synfuel per year by 2012, with 15 more refineries planned for 2015 to 2020. Here's an article about it that might interest you:

"Instead of sugar beets and rapeseed, the new plant processes wood as its raw material. In a pinch, it can also use straw. Using these materials significantly increases the yields from cultivated areas. According to estimates provided by the German Agency for Renewable Resources (FNR), the annual energy yields using the Choren process, based on a Central European climate, are 4,000 liters of fuel per hectare (1,057 US gallons), which is up to three times as much as previous biofuel production methods. What’s more, in contrast to production methods using rapeseed oil and ethanol, this technique does not produce fuel of inferior quality. Choren manufactures extremely pure diesel with virtually no sulfur. Moreover, these second generation biofuels do not harm particle filters or engines and meet top emissions standards."

http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/...

[Dib Dab]

The Truth Matters wrote:

<quoted text>
Agreed. However, that is the way of all elitists - the rules for everyone else do not apply to them. Al Gore is the perfect example or look at all of the global warming conferences held in exotic locations.
The rulers will always live better, and under different rules, than the masses. It's quite hypocritical but it's been repeated over and over again throughout history. Some things never change. Do not trust those who want YOU to make radical changes in your life while they continue to live the good life.

To be honest, I really cant see what the problem is with just going along with simple steps such as what I have already suggested. The major problems come when these rules are set & then taxes follow. In England we have Congestion charges, a minimum of $16 to enter our Capital City of London. These charges are now being implemented in other, cities such as Nottingham & Leicester.

The fact that our wheelie bin holds I think around 160 litres of waste for a family of five+. This waste is emptied every 2 weeks, & if it is over flowing you can expect up to $1000 fine! These measures are not designed to save the planet (it is proven that illegal tipping of waste in the countryside has gone up since the wheelie bin has been introduced), they are put in place to get money off of decent, law abiding citizens, so it pisses me off no end! But that said, I am glad that recycling has been implemented. If it wasn't for this, then I wouldn't have dreamt of growing my own fruit & veg & there's nothing better than home grown, organic produce,(to go with my rabbit stew & pigeon pie)!!!

[Larry]

Fun Facts wrote:

1988 is when Hansen went before congress. I graduated college well before that time. Global cooling was the acare as we were putting so much smog into the air we would block the sun.
We did have too much smog, we saw pictures of LA on the TV regularly. And in fact we had polluted rivers. We have cleaned up smog and polluted rivers and are better for it.
When global warming came along I was ready to jump on. I had lived through the smog. But then I saw the "hockey stick" graph. I knew, because I know history, that the graph was wrong. I began to research to determine if we had global warming and found none.
What evidence have you seen that has convinced you that there is global warming created by man?

The evidence is overwhelming by now, no matter how many big oil and energy funded sites try to muddy the waters.

And even if global warming were not as serious as the vast majority of scientists think, the acidification of the oceans due to carbon dioxide absorption is a huge problem.

Wiki actually has a pretty good summary:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming

If that does not convince you, then maybe statement by one of the world's very best scientific organizations/groups will:

"Our scientific understanding of climate change is sufficiently sound to make us highly confident that greenhouse gas emissions are causing global warming. Science moves forward by challenge and debate and this will continue. However, none of the current criticisms of climate science, nor the alternative explanations of global warming are well enough founded to make not taking any action the wise choice. The science clearly points to the need for nations to take urgent steps to cut greenhouse gas emissions into the atmosphere, as much and as fast as possible, to reduce the more severe aspects of climate change. We must also prepare for the impacts of climate change, some of which are already inevitable."

http://royalsociety.org/page.asp...

Regarding polluted cities and rivers. It may have gotten better, but there's still tons of pollution there.

Larry,
Independent TX voter

[Mac-7]

upwithbiofuels wrote:

FOSSIL FUELS have already caused many wars and as their price increases more wars will be fought.

I wonder why oil would cause wars?

Maybe because it is one of the greatest discoveries in human history and the cornerstone of our modern society?

If so then the left should think twice before so casually turning thier noses up at it.

[tina anne]

upwithbiofuels wrote:

FOSSIL FUELS have already caused many wars and as their price increases more wars will be fought. It's not just a matter of climate change. Saddam invaded Kuwait because of FOSSIL FUELS and then H. W. Bush put our army on the desserts of Saudi Arabia to take the Kuwaiti oil fields back and in so doing he happened to offend a guy named Osama Bin Laden. The world not just the US needs to wean itself off of FOSSIL FUELS.
The first cellulosic ethanol plant is being built in Georgia and will start producing ethanol from forest wastes next year. I said forest wastes not corn so quit using corn ethanol to give BIOFUELS a bad name. The technology exists now to produce fuel from not only forest waste but wheat straw, corn cobs and stover, switch grass, algae, municipal yard wastes, etc.
We have to slow the dollars going to the middle east. This should be the number one priority of the next administration.

As many wars have been over oil is is small change compared to the ones over things like religion. There were people fighting over religion long before there was any source of power other than wind water and muscle.

Ethonal has been nothing more tha a waste of time. In the future when the tech is more mature then it might be practical. As it is so far all these plants have run into one major problem They end up adding more to the problem than they solve. Things like waste wood products end up in other things such as paper, building material and brake pads. Some of the other ideas like switch grass have the draw back of using land that is currently used to raise other crops like hay or as grazing land.

So far corn isn't the only one giving biofuels a bad name. Sugar cane and sugar beets are also giving it a bad name in south america.

[BEAN51]

Dib Dab wrote:

<quoted text>To be honest, I really cant see what the problem is with just going along with simple steps such as what I have already suggested. The major problems come when these rules are set & then taxes follow. In England we have Congestion charges, a minimum of $16 to enter our Capital City of London. These charges are now being implemented in other, cities such as Nottingham & Leicester.
The fact that our wheelie bin holds I think around 160 litres of waste for a family of five+. This waste is emptied every 2 weeks, & if it is over flowing you can expect up to $1000 fine! These measures are not designed to save the planet (it is proven that illegal tipping of waste in the countryside has gone up since the wheelie bin has been introduced), they are put in place to get money off of decent, law abiding citizens, so it pisses me off no end! But that said, I am glad that recycling has been implemented. If it wasn't for this, then I wouldn't have dreamt of growing my own fruit & veg & there's nothing better than home grown, organic produce,(to go with my rabbit stew & pigeon pie)!!!

Rabbit stew and Pigeon Pie.....Now Ya talking!!

Here in Fla. the terrain is flat,barely above sea level. The highest points around the state are landfills. From atop of these one can see the Gulf Of Mexico to the West,and the Atlantic to the East.

Usable methane gas are a byproduct of these land fills.In time the very land is converted into usable space.Ballparks,picnic grounds,and other uses.

All here recycle. Plastic,metal,glass,paper,and wet garbage. its picked up once a week.the vehicles doing this are automatic. One truck,one driver,a forked boom arm lifts up the special container,and flips it into the truck..effecient!

We pay taxes for this,we pay taxes for water also.Taxes,public awareness,and regulations,are accommodating a huge population here,in an environmental delicate situation.

It must be like that in England too.

Now on a farm,of which I had one,in different location,different time.We were totally on our own. Water was from our personnel wells,waste ,household garbage was buried ,or burned.The manure from the animals was spread on the fields.This of course increased food production. Trees,provided lumber,and a heating source.
A practice not changed in thousands of years.

But now ,thats changing also. More and different methods are now running farms.

However,big cities,world over,produce unimaginable amounts of waste.Technology is dealing with it.

Water,however could be a problem.

So your points well taken.Thank god for central home plumbing, heating/cooling ,sewers,pipe lines,electricity,good wells,pristine lakes,and the rest.

Back to our farm..we had Elegant "OUT HOUSES"..it did the job. The screens in upstairs windows were always rusty,Ya pissed out the window,when the temps were in in low teens at nite. The outhouses had two holes,one for the goer,the other for the goee.In mild weather ya had to do a snake check...getting bit in you butt,and other places...was not fun to think about.Oh yes,we recycled old newspaper and magizenes,..Toliet paper ya know!.....

However no way in hell will we ever go back to that,no matter what Gore says!........CHEERS!

[mememine69]

Larry wrote:

<quoted text>
The evidence is overwhelming by now, no matter how many big oil and energy funded sites try to muddy the waters.
And even if global warming were not as serious as the vast majority of scientists think, the acidification of the oceans due to carbon dioxide absorption is a huge problem.
Wiki actually has a pretty good summary:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming
If that does not convince you, then maybe statement by one of the world's very best scientific organizations/groups will:
"Our scientific understanding of climate change is sufficiently sound to make us highly confident that greenhouse gas emissions are causing global warming. Science moves forward by challenge and debate and this will continue. However, none of the current criticisms of climate science, nor the alternative explanations of global warming are well enough founded to make not taking any action the wise choice. The science clearly points to the need for nations to take urgent steps to cut greenhouse gas emissions into the atmosphere, as much and as fast as possible, to reduce the more severe aspects of climate change. We must also prepare for the impacts of climate change, some of which are already inevitable."
http://royalsociety.org/page.asp...
Regarding polluted cities and rivers. It may have gotten better, but there's still tons of pollution there.
Larry,
Independent TX voter

You seem like a test pattern for modern day culture, if not pop-culture. Your repeating of the most popular opinion that the theory is real, probably serves to give you personal assurance that what you read and hear and see on the TV is comfortably correct. Are you even capable of thinking for yourself? We deniers all came from the ranks of believers and the tide is turning as we speak. History will laugh at the very thought of humans thinking that they can regulate the temperatures of planets.
I’m a member of the Union of Concerned Scientists. All they wanted was my $18.00 as credentials so this what the image and PR worked consensus myth is all about. Deniers after 25 years of global warming predictions are doubting, challenging and questioning what the corporate media, PR firms, politicians and paid consultants posing as scientists are telling us. Did you even know that the predications are 25 years old now? For 25 years, yes a quarter of a century, this theory had been predicting doom and dangers and gloom. How foolish can humans be? Just look at the Nazi’s, witch burning, Y2K, eugenics, UFO’s and disco. In this Internet age truth is what you want it to be by sticking to sites that share one’s set opinion. I suggest you open your mind to other sites. There is plenty of debate in the so-called scientific community.
Let’s work together to preserve, not RESCUE our environment from a non-existent crisis with fear.
Get ahead of the curve because history will be laughing, and soon.

[Dib Dab]

BEAN51 wrote:

<quoted text>
Rabbit stew and Pigeon Pie.....Now Ya talking!!

All here recycle. Plastic,metal,glass,paper,and wet garbage. its picked up once a week.
vehicles doing this are automatic. One truck,one driver,a forked boom arm lifts up the special container,and flips it into the truck..effecient!
We pay taxes for this,we pay taxes for water also.Taxes,public awareness,and regulations,are accommodating a huge population here,in an environmental delicate situation.
It must be like that in England too.
Now on a farm,of which I had one,in different location,different time.We were totally on our own. Water was from our personnel wells,waste ,household garbage was buried ,or burned.The manure from the animals was spread on the fields.This of course increased food production. Trees,provided lumber,and a heating source.
A practice not changed in thousands of years.
But now ,thats changing also. More and different methods are now running farms.
However,big cities,world over,produce unimaginable amounts of waste.Technology is dealing with it.
Water,however could be a problem.
So your points well taken.Thank god for central home plumbing, heating/cooling ,sewers,pipe lines,electricity,good wells,pristine lakes,and the rest.
However no way in hell will we ever go back to that,no matter what Gore says!........CHEERS!

Do you really think it will be as extreme as that? To revert back to the "good old days" would mean that the number1 on the target list would have be the producer, not the consumer. Given that big companies, the likes of Pepsi Co (I live not very far from their main base), Coca-Cola, Mattel, Fisher Price, Sara Lee etc, etc pay so much in taxes, employ so many & keep the economy floating, do you really believe that any government can penalize us, for they're making? I don't think it can. If they want us to take it to the extreme, they have to target large corporations who waste so much. I don't know how it works in the US, but in the UK, each sub-district is run by a local council authority all of whom communicate with the county council, until communication reaches parliament through the county MP's. The first place the Government would have to target, as far as waste is concerned are the schools, ran by the local authorities. They have no recycling bins, they waste food & water. They have high voltage lighting that is on throughout the night & any lost items that accumulate throughout the year are gathered together & thrown away on the last day of term!!!
Like I say, I don't mind doing my bit..... But even as we accept these changes, the government are thinking of new "greener" initiatives, that will bring them revenue without yet going over board & catching the bigger fish. I am watching the situation, as I do not like being anyones scape goat, & if the shit hits the fan as everyone becomes up in arms about it, I am sure I will be on the picket line too!!!
Have you ever eaten Hedgehog? I have once. We packed it with garlic & lemon, then put clay around it so it was a ball of clay. We made a vent hole & placed him on a camp fire. About 30/40 mins (I think, I'm going back 20 years or more) we took him out of the fire & allowed him to rest before removing the clay, which in turn removed the spikes. We had him with baked potatoes & mushrooms. It was similar meat to chicken... Very nice.

[BEAN51]

Interesting way to cook.As a farm boy,in a big family,the table was always suplemted with game in the fields,woods,lakes and streams.
I think what we call "Woodchuck" is close animal to yours.A nuisance animal.their borrowing creates hole ,and horses,cows,can,and do break legs.
So we shoot them.

Your preparation is great..slow cooking!Retains the juices and flavor.

Our chucks are prepared ,cut unto pieces.The we soaked them in salt water.the longer the better.Removed all traces of blood,and the so called gamey flavor!

I then would pot roast it.In tomato sauce. Basil,Garlic,Orangeno,and rosemary.
Serve it on a pile of noodles,some homemade bread! We had cider,both hard and sweet,for drink. And followed by fresh picked black berries with just milked heavy cream...WELL! I GOTTA TELL YA! real good...hardly cost a dime!

Ditto that all small game!

Do we have to go back to that way of life??? In a sentimental vein,I would love too.A more simpler time,a world without international conversations about things,in reality have no control of.
A farmer controls his destiny.His family depends on him.He provides security,substance,a great appreciation of nature.He knows his part in the scheme of things.The smell of the Earth,animales,is familiar.
In the evening ,kids to bed,Animals feed and bedded,a brief moment with ones self,and of course your wife,for without her ,this is all for naught.

Then reality!! Like a freight train, it comes hurtling at you,cannot get away.

Weather its Wars,or like now ,international concerns,you have to make a stand.

What does each do? the English,and the Americans are brothers.This is not the last adversity we will face together,won;t be the last.

We must rely on the path that took both our great nations to be one of the finest things ever to happen in theis world.

We will continue to show the way.It won't be easy,but for all our kids sake it has to be.A Maximum effort is required now`.

If you and I,A Brit and a Yank,were confronted by a large boulder,and we moved it an inch!! hell we move it a mile!..but if the dam rock don't move!!..then its beyond our control,and we would back off right???/ WRONG!1..We would go get explosives and move on.

Thats the currant approach to the currant problem.Handwring,procrastinat ion,fear,non action.

Until we get the "RIGHT leadership its all Hope less..HOT RHETORIC! just futer heating up the atmosphere.

My dinner will be chicken livers,sautéed in butter,olive oil,fresh mushrooms,white wine,a touch of Soy,garnished with green onion.I think rice or Abused potatoes with sour cream would be nice...A Chardney,chilled....what more can you ask for!! CIAO!