Expert: Solar panels dona t work well

Expert: Solar panels dona t work well

There are 253 comments on the Charleston Daily Mail story from Oct 7, 2011, titled Expert: Solar panels dona t work well. In it, Charleston Daily Mail reports that:

Solar companies are duping the public. Solar panels do not work as advertised. This comes not from coal executive but from Ray Burgess , who just happens to be the president and CEO of Solar Power Technologies, a Texas-based solar monitoring company that has developed a wireless mesh network to collect data from solar systems.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Charleston Daily Mail.

Gord

Calgary, Canada

#162 Oct 25, 2011
Some people must be using 3000 to 3000 + kWh per month or there would not be rates for them!

Base Electric Rates¬óCity of Laurel
(effective 2009/2010)

Residential Service:
Customer Charge:$6.00 per month
$0.1089 per kWh for the first 300 kWh used per month
$0.0757 per kWh for the next 2,700 kWh used per month
$0.0580 per kWh for over 3,000 kWh

Residential Service (all electric):
Customer Charge:$6.00 per month
$0.0817 per kWh for the first 500 kWh used per month
$0.0551 per kWh for the next 2,500 kWh used per month
$0.0414 per kWh for over 3,000 kWh

http://sites.nppd.com/aedc/FactsBook/Laurelbo...
Gord

Calgary, Canada

#163 Oct 25, 2011
I moved into a 4000sf home in Carlisle PA in July 2010. The home is 5 years old and built on a concrete slab with Hardwood floor on the first floor and a mix of hardwood and carpet on the second floor. We have a closed loop geothermal system Climatemaster Genesis GSS060BGC01 and Carrier Air Handler. We have 3 thermostats located throughout the home. In December 2010 we went to Florida for 10 days and on my return I opened my utility bill and found the home had used 8098 KWH equating to a charge of $ 1020 for 34 days usage at an average of 238 KWH per day. During this time the thermostats were set at 65 degrees F. Where is the cost saving coming from in this Geothermal System???

The company who installed it came out on 1/7/2011 and said the Auxillary heat was kicking on too soon contributing to the high electric usage. Adjustments were made on the control board of the Air Handler so the Auxillary heat did not kick on too often.

However, on 1/8/11 after this adjustment was made and with the first thermostat set at 65 the second at 62 and the third at 51 (bonus room over garage) the 12 hour usage overnite was 101 KWH. I then turned the first one to 65 the second to 62 and the third to the OFF position. I had a fire burning during the daylight hours of Saturday. Over the next 24 hours up until 8 am this morning it used 211 KWH.

HELP!!!! this is crazy what can be wrong. I have monitored the thermostats and the auxillary heat is not coming on.

I already have used over 2000KWH this month and am heading for another $1000 if not more utility bill.

Anybody with some sound advice?

PS. I lived for 4 years in Northern MD in a 5000sf home with two gas furnaces and the highest utility bill I received in one month during winter was $540 where is the cost saving in Geothermal or is it just a hoax like global warming??
---
For comparison sake my house has been using about 90-100kwh per day, but my house is 4800sq ft and entirely electric (5 ton ground loop). My resistance heat hasn't turned on once and mostly I see long stage 1 run times at 4000-4200 watts (heat pump load).

http://www.greenbuildingtalk.com/Forums/tabid...
Gord

Calgary, Canada

#164 Oct 25, 2011
What is the real cost of putting solar panels on your house?

In California-$25,000 but then $13,000 after rebates and tax credit for 2,100 sq ft house

"More Rays Please: Randy Borowicz, who lives on Monica Lane in Campbell, installed 22 photovoltaic solar panels on his roof. His PG&E bill dropped from more than $300 per month to about $40. His license plate says it all."

Plus many more...some positive and some negative comments.
http://askville.amazon.com/real-cost-putting-...
Gord

Calgary, Canada

#165 Oct 25, 2011
Earthling-1 wrote:
Gord, how many kWh of juice do you consume in an average month?
How many kWh did you consume in September?
-
NB: Those questions only apply if you live in a house, pay the electricity bill and have somewhere to install solar PV.
I don't know what the Power bills were.

I do know that I paid about $332/Month for Power+Water last year.

(I asked my wife but she lumped the two bills together for some reason)

My house is about 2400 sq ft.
LessHypeMoreFact

Concord, Canada

#166 Oct 25, 2011
Earthling-1 wrote:
Who, in their right mind, uses 3000 kWh per month?
Hey Dirt? Never heard of living better electically? i.e electric heating?

Not everyone restricts electicity use to boiiling a pot of tea.

Hard to convert electically heated homes since they have no central air ductwork. So solar can make sense as electicity prices climb from the outrageous price of fossil fuels (oil and coal and natural gas all tend to follow the same 'equivalent pricing')
LessHypeMoreFact

Concord, Canada

#167 Oct 25, 2011
Gord wrote:
What is the real cost of putting solar panels on your house?
Not a cent.(some places). Of course, you have to share the profits with the company that provides the panels and installation.

http://tinyurl.com/3qbk45a

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain retreat, SE Spain

#168 Oct 25, 2011
Gord wrote:
I don't know what the Power bills were.
I do know that I paid about $332/Month for Power+Water last year.
(I asked my wife but she lumped the two bills together for some reason)
My house is about 2400 sq ft.
So you don't actually know what your 'AVERAGE' monthly leccy bill is in kWh.
You're a typical male, you only know what 'the wife' told you it cost.
Well, kiddo, I take my hat off to you, I haven't worried about the cost of any fuel for over 40 years.
When the car or boiler fuel tank gets low, fill it up, the cost per litre is immaterial.
If you can't afford it, you can't have it.

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain retreat, SE Spain

#169 Oct 25, 2011
NobodyYouEverWantToKnow, alias:
LessFactMoreHype wrote:
Hey Dirt?
Hi, Mr Undoubtably Spelt Fourty.
NoFactAllHype wrote:
Never heard of living better electically?
Many years ago, but those who tried it came to grief.
NoFactAllHype wrote:
i.e electric heating?
I once remodelled a house for a wealthy actor who went all electric.
NoFactAllHype wrote:
Not everyone restricts electicity use to boiiling a pot of tea.
"Electicity" and "boiiling?"
NoFactAllHype wrote:
Hard to convert *electically* heated homes
Yes, I imagine it would be, Mr Undoubtably Spelt Electically.
NoFactAllHype wrote:
since they have no central air ductwork.
You're an 'engineer' at what, toy soldiers?
NoFactAllHype wrote:
So solar can make sense as *electicity* prices climb from the outrageous price of fossil fuels (oil and coal and natural gas all tend to follow the same 'equivalent pricing')
What would you do with a 160 year old farmhouse that has 40 cm thick walls, solid floors and no roof space, Mr Undoubtably Spelt Fourty?
LessHypeMoreFact

Concord, Canada

#170 Oct 25, 2011
Earthling-1 wrote:
<quoted text>
If you can't afford it, you can't have it.
One more example of Dirling, the silver spooned aristocrat. "if you have to ask, you can't afford it' never applies to him, of course. Money is something you take for granted at his level of priviledge.

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain retreat, SE Spain

#171 Oct 25, 2011
NobodyYouEverWantToKnow, alias:
LessFactMoreHype wrote:
One more example of Dirling, the silver spooned aristocrat.
"Dirling?"
NoFactAllHype wrote:
"if you have to ask, you can't afford it' never applies to him, of course.
If you can't afford it, you can't or shouldn't have it until you can afford it.
NoFactAllHype wrote:
Money is something you take for granted at his level of priviledge.
You really are a sick and twisted old man, Mr Undoubtably Spelt Fourty.
Bernard Forand

Seattle, WA

#172 Oct 25, 2011
Gord wrote:
What is the real cost of putting solar panels on your house?
In California-$25,000 but then $13,000 after rebates and tax credit for 2,100 sq ft house
"More Rays Please: Randy Borowicz, who lives on Monica Lane in Campbell, installed 22 photovoltaic solar panels on his roof. His PG&E bill dropped from more than $300 per month to about $40. His license plate says it all."
Plus many more...some positive and some negative comments.
http://askville.amazon.com/real-cost-putting-...


A 5 ton loop thermal for 4,800 sq ft times ?-Height, for volume may be not large enough. Runiing times will be higher to compesate for excess volume to be seviced. 4000 sq.ft. house is greater in volume than a 2000 sq, ft house. Height of ceilings, weather stripping and outside ambient temperature. Your geothermal I surmise is a heat pump? As the ambient outside temperature drops, the efficiency to extract heat from the lowered ambient temperature drops. Requiring longer run time of the heat pump. As it approaches 55 degrees ambient temperature, acceleration in inefficiency to the system increases. Similar to your volume increase from 2000 sq. ft. times Height to 4000sq ft times height. Note surface area of 2000 sq. ft. to 4000 sq ft decrease by the square as the volume increases by the square to the surfcae that contains it. as what it will take in KWH to service them will rise in proportion. 2400 for $300 a month with water, is average cost. Your 4000 is more efficient can only be speculated, determined by unknown heights of structures, to determine volume and ambient temperatures at time of exposer. Ratios being equal then 4000 sq. ft. is more efficient.
Now as to solar panels. Check local dealers some will install for time payments. Buy a Nissan Leaf and then calculate how much you would save on fuel cost. Leaf in terms of combustible fuel delivers over 300 miles per gallon. Now Mid size combustible for around town runs about $ 300 per month for fuel. Add that savings as well as your utility bill savings to pay for the entire system.
Consider your Green as a garden, that could produce surplus. Just by increasing your plantings and nurturing of them.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#173 Oct 25, 2011
Gord wrote:
I moved into a 4000sf home in Carlisle PA in July 2010. The home is 5 years old and built on a concrete slab with Hardwood floor on the first floor and a mix of hardwood and carpet on the second floor. We have a closed loop geothermal system Climatemaster Genesis GSS060BGC01 and Carrier Air Handler. We have 3 thermostats located throughout the home. In December 2010 we went to Florida for 10 days and on my return I opened my utility bill and found the home had used 8098 KWH equating to a charge of $ 1020 for 34 days usage at an average of 238 KWH per day. During this time the thermostats were set at 65 degrees F. Where is the cost saving coming from in this Geothermal System???
The company who installed it came out on 1/7/2011 and said the Auxillary heat was kicking on too soon contributing to the high electric usage. Adjustments were made on the control board of the Air Handler so the Auxillary heat did not kick on too often.
However, on 1/8/11 after this adjustment was made and with the first thermostat set at 65 the second at 62 and the third at 51 (bonus room over garage) the 12 hour usage overnite was 101 KWH. I then turned the first one to 65 the second to 62 and the third to the OFF position. I had a fire burning during the daylight hours of Saturday. Over the next 24 hours up until 8 am this morning it used 211 KWH.
HELP!!!! this is crazy what can be wrong. I have monitored the thermostats and the auxillary heat is not coming on.
I already have used over 2000KWH this month and am heading for another $1000 if not more utility bill.
Anybody with some sound advice?
PS. I lived for 4 years in Northern MD in a 5000sf home with two gas furnaces and the highest utility bill I received in one month during winter was $540 where is the cost saving in Geothermal or is it just a hoax like global warming??
---
For comparison sake my house has been using about 90-100kwh per day, but my house is 4800sq ft and entirely electric (5 ton ground loop). My resistance heat hasn't turned on once and mostly I see long stage 1 run times at 4000-4200 watts (heat pump load).
http://www.greenbuildingtalk.com/Forums/tabid...
This has also been my concern over solar panels or any other type of alternative energy. They're super hyped but in the end, just sales gimmicks. That's what We've been trying to beat into your head.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#174 Oct 25, 2011
Gord wrote:
What is the real cost of putting solar panels on your house?
In California-$25,000 but then $13,000 after rebates and tax credit for 2,100 sq ft house
"More Rays Please: Randy Borowicz, who lives on Monica Lane in Campbell, installed 22 photovoltaic solar panels on his roof. His PG&E bill dropped from more than $300 per month to about $40. His license plate says it all."
Plus many more...some positive and some negative comments.
http://askville.amazon.com/real-cost-putting-...
The real costs don't stop there. That's the tip of the proverbial iceberg. Think wider and deeper.

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain retreat, SE Spain

#175 Oct 25, 2011
Graft wrote:
The real costs don't stop there. That's the tip of the proverbial iceberg. Think wider and deeper.
The best Gord has been able to find so far are advertising gimmicks for solar systems and as we know, the ads always speak highly of their products.
It would be nice to get some honest feedback from someone for a change.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#176 Oct 25, 2011
Earthling-1 wrote:
<quoted text>The best Gord has been able to find so far are advertising gimmicks for solar systems and as we know, the ads always speak highly of their products.
It would be nice to get some honest feedback from someone for a change.
I know, right? How about we discuss something beside solar? What do you know about the Stan Meyer water hydrolysis model? If we can't use solar, why not water? There's enough on the planet's surface.

I know it's a bit far fetched, but so is solar. I'm only after discourse.

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain retreat, SE Spain

#178 Oct 25, 2011
Graft wrote:
I know, right? How about we discuss something beside solar? What do you know about the Stan Meyer water hydrolysis model? If we can't use solar, why not water? There's enough on the planet's surface.
I know it's a bit far fetched, but so is solar. I'm only after discourse.
Only 1% of the water on Earth is freshwater.
If an idea sounds too good to be true, it usually is.
If an idea is sound, word will get round.
Solar isn't that far fetched, it does a good job heating my water.
Solarman

Indio, CA

#179 Oct 25, 2011
Earthling-1 wrote:
<quoted text>The best Gord has been able to find so far are advertising gimmicks for solar systems and as we know, the ads always speak highly of their products.
It would be nice to get some honest feedback from someone for a change.
WHAT? You of all people should know how this works. You have to do some kind of energy audit to see how much 'average' energy one uses during the year. When heat storage is the solar of choice, you would want to design for the highest usage point of the year, typically winter time. Solar PV is a little different when you use a grid tied system. During the Winter months, particularly in the Desert South West, a PV system will make much more energy than the house needs during the Winter months. That energy is credited by the utility and can be drawn on during the high demand summer months. Draw you will. My system is designed as an average 36KWh a day system, which is the 'average' daily usage over a year period. Actual for my particular home is 10KWh a day during Winter months and from 95 to 135KWh a day during the Summer months. When August arrives with 115 degree days and nights with 95 degree lows and 40 to 50% humidity, you will run the A/C 24/7. 3500KWh monthly electrical usage is not uncommon during the summer time. When the system was installed in 2005, the payoff calculated out to 22 years, a rate increase and then another increase has adjusted the payoff to 17 years. Energy costs are not going down, the payoff will be sooner than later. In areas where the utility uses tiered rate structures, like SCE and PG&E in California, payoff can be in the 7 to 10 year range. This is why the option of starting with a small grid tied system that uses the panel micro-inverter generation method can be a good fit with many people. Start with a small system (8)? panels and micro-inverters and then expand the system a panel and micro-inverter at a time until some goal is reached. 25%, 50%, 100% of daily energy requirements met.
Gord

Calgary, Canada

#180 Oct 26, 2011
Graft wrote:
<quoted text>
This has also been my concern over solar panels or any other type of alternative energy. They're super hyped but in the end, just sales gimmicks. That's what We've been trying to beat into your head.
So, are all types of "alternative energy" just hype and sales gimmicks?

There are, obviously, people who have invested in Solar Panels and are pleased with their investment.

YuKon is one of those people.

I have asked you more than once to explain why you think YuKon's investment was a bad choice.
----------
You posted:

"Good investment means a good return. A bad return is true whether you have $2.00 or $2 million dollars.
Viable is viable. I'm an investor, that's something I know a bit about."

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/global-warmin...
------
However, when I asked you to:

"Please explain why you think YuKons choice to invest in Solar Panels:

- Was Not A Good Investment
- Does not produce a good return
- Is not viable

Please show your calculations, if you are able to."
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/global-warmin...

You have refused to answer.....Why?
----------
Graft wrote:
<quoted text>
The real costs don't stop there. That's the tip of the proverbial iceberg. Think wider and deeper.
This is more of your "all foam" and no "Beer" posts.

If you are capable of thinking wider and deeper, then post the "real costs" you are referring to.

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain retreat, SE Spain

#181 Oct 26, 2011
Gord wrote:
There are, obviously, people who have invested in Solar Panels and are pleased with their investment.
Have you ever met one face to face?
Gord wrote:
YuKon is one of those people.
YuKon never got back to confirm or deny anything.
Some cheap Solyndra shares were offered to me recently, how many can I interest you in?

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain retreat, SE Spain

#182 Oct 26, 2011
Solarman wrote:
WHAT? You of all people should know how this works.
I'm sure I have a rough idea.
Solarman wrote:
You have to do some kind of energy audit to see how much 'average' energy one uses during the year.
Or not, because it appears that not many Topix posters know how much energy they consume on average.
Solarman wrote:
When heat storage is the solar of choice, you would want to design for the highest usage point of the year, typically winter time. Solar PV is a little different when you use a grid tied system. During the Winter months, particularly in the Desert South West, a PV system will make much more energy than the house needs during the Winter months. That energy is credited by the utility and can be drawn on during the high demand summer months. Draw you will. My system is designed as an average 36KWh a day system, which is the 'average' daily usage over a year period. Actual for my particular home is 10KWh a day during Winter months and from 95 to 135KWh a day during the Summer months. When August arrives with 115 degree days and nights with 95 degree lows and 40 to 50% humidity, you will run the A/C 24/7. 3500KWh monthly electrical usage is not uncommon during the summer time. When the system was installed in 2005, the payoff calculated out to 22 years, a rate increase and then another increase has adjusted the payoff to 17 years. Energy costs are not going down, the payoff will be sooner than later. In areas where the utility uses tiered rate structures, like SCE and PG&E in California, payoff can be in the 7 to 10 year range. This is why the option of starting with a small grid tied system that uses the panel micro-inverter generation method can be a good fit with many people. Start with a small system (8)? panels and micro-inverters and then expand the system a panel and micro-inverter at a time until some goal is reached. 25%, 50%, 100% of daily energy requirements met.
It would be cheaper for you to move somewhere with a touch more comfortable climate, that would be a win win situation.

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