On thin ice

On thin ice

There are 223 comments on the Stawell Times News story from Sep 16, 2011, titled On thin ice. In it, Stawell Times News reports that:

THE Arctic Ocean in summer is vast, wind-beaten and bloody cold. Compared with a decade ago it is also increasingly blue.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Stawell Times News.

First Prev
of 12
Next Last
Northie

Spokane, WA

#1 Sep 16, 2011
Once again, an otherwise good article mentions the decline in ice extent without mentioning the steeper decline in ice volume.

That will change.

And IPCC AR5 will be a page turner.

Since: Apr 10

Milwaukee, WI USA

#2 Sep 16, 2011
Northie wrote:
And IPCC AR5 will be a page turner.
So are Tom Clancy's books, and you know what they have in common? They're both fictions.
litesong

Lynnwood, WA

#3 Sep 16, 2011
[QUOTE who="steve's case of the itch"]So are Tom Clancy's books, and you know what they have in common? They're both fictions.[/QUOTE]

I read Clancy, in Debt of Honor & Executive Order, written BEFORE 9/11, which envisioned a large airliner killing nearly the entire congress & President.

Millions of people had extraordinary ranges of emotions on 9/11, as I did. One emotion I did NOT have, was surprise. Clancy's reading feels very real & that was one reason I did not feel surprised.

Also while vacationing in New York City in the early 90's, & while standing under the Twin Towers, marveling at their size, I had a waking vision of their collapse. My vision was overwhelmed with choking dust. I've never considered myself to be taken with visions or foretellings, but on that occasion it seems that I was.

Since: Apr 10

Milwaukee, WI USA

#4 Sep 16, 2011
Sure you did.
Gord

Calgary, Canada

#5 Sep 16, 2011
Northie said...
"And IPCC AR5 will be a page turner."

I'm sure the IPCC AR5 report will be another disaster for the IPCC, as was the the AR4 report:

----------
Climate scandal grows as scientists detail “horrifying examples of deliberate tampering with the temperature data”
Washington, DC 1/26/2010 06:31 PM GMT (TransWorldNews)
"NOAA, not CRU, was the driving force behind the systematic hyping of 20th-century “global warming”– a warming that has been exaggerated in level and rate."
http://news.wooeb.com/NewsStory.aspx...
----------
The Four ‘Gates’ of the IPCC

"First there was Climate Gate, showing that the peer review process has descended into a criminal farce of scientific malpractice where adjusting and hiding data was de-rigueur. Hello Fraud. ClimateGate also spread to the US, where 75% of worldwide data is systematically ignored or “adjusted” until it tells the right story.

Then there was PachauriGate, showing that the man in charge of the IPCC was chairman of boards of companies that profit handsomely as the scare-factor is ramped up.

Along comes GlacierGate: about the IPCC “accidentally” using a WWF report instead of peer reviewed science papers. After calling a 60 page Indian Govt report on glaciers “voodoo science” they were forced to apologize for that “one paragraph that was wrong”. Then Donna LeFramboise in just one day of hunting, found 16 other references in the IPCC 4th report to the “scientific journal” called “WWF”. Proving that really, the big safety-mechanism of the IPCC reputation was not in its exhaustive reviews but was in the way it made its documents so big, so dull and so unreadable, that hardly anyone actually … reads them. Call it the thousand-page-cloak-of-invisib ility.

Camouflage for poor science, poor standards, bad logic, and too many vested interests to name.

Now there is AmazonGate. The IPCC fabricates disastrous claims about the Amazon forest, and references a document written by activists that doesn’t even support the claim.

Will 40% of the Amazonian forests react drastically to even a slight change in rainfall? Is there a tipping point for the Amazon? The reference turns out to be an Australian forest specialist, who works for not just the WWF, but also for the World Conservation Union, and who according to his CV mostly works in Australia and Asia, and not the Amazon. His co-author is a journalist who’s worked on Greenpeace campaigns and for the WWF. Then, to top it off, the assertions that the IPCC attributes to them can’t even be found in the report that they wrote.

All Gates lead to humiliation and embarrassment for the followers of the great cult of the carbonistas.

And we haven’t yet got even close to the scandal of the faulty assumptions that led to the faulty models and alarmist predictions in the first place, or the even bigger scandal of how the observational evidence that proves the assumptions false is and was ignored by the IPCC."
http://joannenova.com.au/2010/01/the-four-gat...
----------
Pachauri must resign at once as head of official climate science panel
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/geoffreylea...
----------
continued...
Gord

Calgary, Canada

#6 Sep 16, 2011
continuation...

The scandal deepens – IPCC AR4 riddled with non peer reviewed WWF papers

"The IPCC glacier melt scandal was the one that galvanized the collective voice that has been saying that the IPCC report was seriously flawed and represented a political rather than scientific view. Now people are seriously looking at AR4 with a critical eye and finding things everywhere."

"Well it turns out that the WWF is cited all over the IPCC AR4 report, and as you know, WWF does not produce peer reviewed science, they produce opinion papers in line with their vision. Yet IPCC’s rules are such that they are supposed to rely on peer reviewed science only. It appears they’ve violated that rule dozens of times, all under Pachauri’s watch"

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/01/24/the-sca...
----------
AGW House of Cards collapsing and more Pachuri Criminal Activity...HAHAHA...

World misled over Himalayan glacier meltdown
"Hasnain has since admitted that the claim was "speculation" and was not supported by any formal research."
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environ...
----------
How the IPCC Portrayed a Net Positive Impact of Climate Change as a Negative
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/09/18/how-the...
----------
Pachauri: there's money in them glaciers
"Syed Hasnain (pictured), the scientist at the centre of the growing controversy over melting Himalayan glaciers (not), is now working for Dr R K Pachauri's TERI as head of the institute glaciology team, funded by a generous grant from a US charity, researching the effects of the retreat."
http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2010/01/pach...
----------
Questions over business deals of UN climate change guru Dr Rajendra Pachauri - Telegraph, UK

Pachauri: admits to $300,000 in payments
http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2009/12/pach...
-------
Does the IPCC Chairman Have Conflicts of Interest?
http://rogerpielkejr.blogspot.com/2009/12/doe...
---------
Taxpayers' millions paid to Indian institute run by UN climate chief
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/...
----------
----------
Here are some "items" that the IPCC AR5 report may include:

Solar Flares–a giant fireball spawned from solar storms, heading toward the earth. The “Katrina from outer space” that, as Fox News’ Bill Hemmer says,“could be the end of life as we know it.” Hemmer’s guest astrophysicist Dr. Michio Kaku explains."
http://www.climategate.com/nasa-solar-flares-...

Nasa Warns Of Super Solar Storm 2012
&fe ature=related

CNN BREAKING NEWS - NASA SOLAR STORM WARNING
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Another dire warning for 2012 - Solar Maximum - peak of its 11-year cycle
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

NASA 2012 WARNING PUBLIC: SUPER SOLAR STORM WARNING
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Michio Kaku: Massive solar flare in the years 2012/2013 could throw us back 100 years
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

And, of course, there are the Space Alien Attacks....

Aliens may destroy humanity to protect other civilisations, say scientists
Rising greenhouse emissions could tip off aliens that we are a rapidly expanding threat, warns a report
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/aug/18...
----------

The IPCC AR5 report will be a page turner alright.

The the front and back covers will probably include advertising for Rajendra K. Pachauri's “smutty” romance novel, Return to Almora.

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain retreat, SE Spain

#7 Sep 17, 2011
Now that the IPCC has lost its US grant money, the book will probably be a short story.
NobodyYouKnow

Nepean, Canada

#8 Sep 18, 2011
Earthling-1 wrote:
Now that the IPCC has lost its US grant money, the book will probably be a short story.
You are delusional at best. The Republican dominated House can pass toilet paper if it wants, but to be law it has to pass the senate. It has NO chance of doing so. Besides, H.R. 2583, is an authorization bill for the U.S. Department of State and other expenses related to foreign affairs. Such a bill has not been signed into law since 2002. The appropriations committees actually write the annual appropriations bill which becomes law and fund foreign assistance.

1. House State-Foreign Operations Appropriations Subcommittee Passes FY12 Bill; Full Committee Markup Schedule for Next Week

2. Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman Kerry Releases FY12-FY13 State Department Authorization Bill

http://www.usglc.org/2011/08/01/international...

"Increases Engagement with International Organizations:"

"As opposed to H.R. 2583, which cut U.S. contributions to the UN regular budget by 25% and capped the amount that the U.S. would contribute to peacekeeping missions at 25%, the Senate bill would increase peacekeeping contributions to 27.5% and urge the State Department to improve efforts to recruit and place U.S. citizens in international organizations such as the UN, World Bank and IMF. "
Northie

Spokane, WA

#9 Sep 18, 2011
Steve Case wrote:
<quoted text>
So are Tom Clancy's books, and you know what they have in common? They're both fictions.
Fiction? What happened to the Arctic's sea ice, most of which has already melted--decades ahead of forecasts?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capital-w...
The IPCC is beginning to look more and more like a junior officer telling the Titanic's passengers to remain calm.
YouHelpFixIt

Scottsdale, AZ

#10 Sep 19, 2011
Northie wrote:
<quoted text>
Fiction? What happened to the Arctic's sea ice, most of which has already melted--decades ahead of forecasts?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capital-w...
The IPCC is beginning to look more and more like a junior officer telling the Titanic's passengers to remain calm.
Not this forcast:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7139797.stm

or this one:
http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/2008/050508...

or
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/capitalweath...

Nope , no Titanic, you are just acting like Henny Penny quoting Chicken little.

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain retreat, SE Spain

#11 Sep 19, 2011
North Pole May Be Ice-Free for First Time This Summer
Aalok Mehta aboard the C.C.G.S. Amundsen
National Geographic News
June 20, 2008
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/...
Expert: Arctic polar cap may disappear this summer
2008-03-01
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-03/01/...
Copenhagen climate summit: Al Gore condemned over Arctic ice melting prediction
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/copenhagen-c...
Northie

Spokane, WA

#12 Sep 19, 2011
YouHelpFixIt wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope , no Titanic, you are just acting like Henny Penny quoting Chicken little.
Exactly what part of, "most Arctic sea ice has vanished" do you not understand?

Lemme guess, you're the sort who rationalizes dessert by denying that you ate it, right?
YouHelpFixIt

Scottsdale, AZ

#13 Sep 19, 2011
Northie wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly what part of, "most Arctic sea ice has vanished" do you not understand?
Lemme guess, you're the sort who rationalizes dessert by denying that you ate it, right?
You did not read the failed forecasts did you? Dis the ice melt decades before those forecasts?

Poor illiterate Northie is trying to argue, but can't figure out why he is confused and his argument is moot.
Northie

Spokane, WA

#14 Sep 19, 2011
YouHelpFixIt wrote:
<quoted text>
You did not read the failed forecasts did you? Dis the ice melt decades before those forecasts?
Poor illiterate Northie is trying to argue, but can't figure out why he is confused and his argument is moot.
Failed forecasts? Quote the language specifically. A forecast that says Arctic ice "may vanish as early as summer 2013" hardly counts as a failure, now does it--particularly when melting is outstripping nearly all forecasts?

Unless, of course, you are a conservative political fanatic for whom science denial is the default setting.

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain retreat, SE Spain

#15 Sep 20, 2011
Nauseous wrote:
Exactly what part of, "most Arctic sea ice has vanished" do you not understand?
Exactly where was, "most Arctic sea ice has vanished" written, or did you just make it up for effect?

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain retreat, SE Spain

#16 Sep 20, 2011
Nauseous wrote:
Failed forecasts? Quote the language specifically. A forecast that says Arctic ice "may vanish as early as summer 2013" hardly counts as a failure, now does it--particularly when melting is outstripping nearly all forecasts?
It's still a forecast, and will remin a forecast until 2013.
A few days ago, a thunderstorm was forecast for yesterday in this region, but no thunderstorm occurred anywhere.
Nauseous wrote:
Unless, of course, you are a conservative political fanatic for whom science denial is the default setting.
Those are words that could only be written by a demented fanatic.

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain retreat, SE Spain

#17 Sep 20, 2011
YouHelpFixIt wrote:
You did not read the failed forecasts did you? Dis the ice melt decades before those forecasts?
Poor illiterate Northie is trying to argue, but can't figure out why he is confused and his argument is moot.
Nauseous apparently has a selective memory that conveniently rejects the many failed forecasts of an ice free Arctic over past years.
YouHelpFixIt

Nottingham, MD

#18 Sep 20, 2011
Northie wrote:
<quoted text>
Failed forecasts? Quote the language specifically. A forecast that says Arctic ice "may vanish as early as summer 2013" hardly counts as a failure, now does it--particularly when melting is outstripping nearly all forecasts?
Unless, of course, you are a conservative political fanatic for whom science denial is the default setting.
It does count as a failure when you say that the ice has melted decades before the forecasts.

Lets see, you say the ice melted decades before 2013 (this forecast). So do you have any evidence that the ice vanished in the summer of 1993? Because I don't think it did. But that is your failure, not thiers.

You act as if you cannot comprehend the every words that you write.
Northie

Spokane, WA

#19 Sep 20, 2011
YouHelpFixIt wrote:
<quoted text>
It does count as a failure when you say that the ice has melted decades before the forecasts.
Lets see, you say the ice melted decades before 2013 (this forecast). So do you have any evidence that the ice vanished in the summer of 1993? Because I don't think it did. But that is your failure, not thiers.
You act as if you cannot comprehend the every words that you write.
Pardon me while I hold you to account. You quoted three broad survey articles as "failed forcasts" [sic].

While I'd like to waste my time pinning a tea party nutjob to the wall on each of these, let's examine just the first piece, from the BBC:

Cambridge's Dr. Peter Wadhams: "It might not be as early as 2013 but it will be soon, much earlier than 2040."

NSIDC's Dr Mark Serreze: "A few years ago, even I was thinking 2050, 2070, out beyond the year 2100, because that's what our models were telling us. But as we've seen, the models aren't fast enough right now; we are losing ice at a much more rapid rate. My thinking on this is that 2030 is not an unreasonable date to be thinking of."

Which of these is your "failed forcast"?
YouHelpFixIt

Scottsdale, AZ

#20 Sep 20, 2011
Northie wrote:
<quoted text>
Pardon me while I hold you to account. You quoted three broad survey articles as "failed forcasts" [sic].
While I'd like to waste my time pinning a tea party nutjob to the wall on each of these, let's examine just the first piece, from the BBC:
Cambridge's Dr. Peter Wadhams: "It might not be as early as 2013 but it will be soon, much earlier than 2040."
NSIDC's Dr Mark Serreze: "A few years ago, even I was thinking 2050, 2070, out beyond the year 2100, because that's what our models were telling us. But as we've seen, the models aren't fast enough right now; we are losing ice at a much more rapid rate. My thinking on this is that 2030 is not an unreasonable date to be thinking of."
Which of these is your "failed forcast"?
Nope, you have a reading comprehension problem, go read the posts. I wrote that the forecasts I listed did not meet your criteria.

In each and every one of the the ice did not melt "decades before" the forecast.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker
First Prev
of 12
Next Last

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Global Warming Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Global warming 'undeniable,' scientists say (Jul '10) 12 hr Patriot AKA Bozo 41,320
Poll What is the most STUPID post made by an AGW'er.... (Sep '09) 15 hr hojo 1,734
News Once slow-moving threat, global warming speeds ... (Dec '08) 15 hr Willycfarty 64,982
Ever Notice? Mon don t drink the k... 3
News Gov. 'Moonbeam' says California to launch clima... Mon Police Chief Edd 7
News This solar farm is built on oil industry money,... Sep 22 Solarman 1
News Extreme weather like Hurricane Florence shows w... Sep 22 Mothra 2