The Church of England Still Won't Let Its Gay Bishops Have Sex

Jan 4, 2013 Full story: The Atlantic 41

On Friday the Church of England announced that it's decided that to allow gay clergy to be elevated to bishop , even if they are in a civil partnership - provided they aren't actually having sex with anyone.

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Think Again

Farmville, NC

#3 Jan 7, 2013
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
You quote statistics as if they are individual facts - which they are NOT!
Your sin is a much more grave sin, according to the bible, than is any sexual encounter between two consenting adults.
In fact, it is an open and willful trespass by false witness knowingly made onto others and against someone you don't even know.
Your sin is actually one of the Ten Big Ones, while the behavior of those you accuse is not even mentioned!
You lie and you testify, consciously and purposefully incorrectly, at the expense of another and others!
Then you wrap it all up nicely like a spider with a moth and bite it with the venom of your hand-picked scriptures, while ignoring the consequences.
And,... there are consequences.
Rev. Ken
There are also consequences for leading people astray and you and those like you will have a heavy price to pay.

2 Peter 2

But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does[a] not slumber.

18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped[d] from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb:A dog returns to his own vomit,[e] and,a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#4 Jan 7, 2013
Think Again wrote:
<quoted text>
There are also consequences for leading people astray and you and those like you will have a heavy price to pay.
2 Peter 2
But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does[a] not slumber.
18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped[d] from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb:A dog returns to his own vomit,[e] and,a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.
Funny. I basically said the same thing - except for one difference.

In taking Christ Jesus as my guide and mentor, I have not found fault in others by using scripture to condemn. Instead, my emphasis is to turn myself and my view of others TO the Lord.

There is a difference, TA.

I encourage you to find it and when and if you do, to stay with it.

Condemnation and judgment are not enough. In fact, when they overrule mercy and forgiveness within oneself, they put you at odds with yourself.

There is always something to learn and a better way to go.

Rev. Ken
El Segundo

El Segundo, CA

#5 Jan 7, 2013
Think Again wrote:
<quoted text>
There are also consequences for leading people astray and you and those like you will have a heavy price to pay.
2 Peter 2
But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does[a] not slumber.
18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped[d] from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb:A dog returns to his own vomit,[e] and,a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.
"There are also consequences for leading people astray and you and those like you will have a heavy price to pay."
The difference between being homosexual and people like "RevKen" who promote homosexuality is like the difference between a drug user and a drug dealer,
I'm afraid that "RevKen" is going to end up in a very dark place.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#8 Jan 8, 2013
El Segundo wrote:
<quoted text>
"There are also consequences for leading people astray and you and those like you will have a heavy price to pay."
The difference between being homosexual and people like "RevKen" who promote homosexuality is like the difference between a drug user and a drug dealer,
I'm afraid that "RevKen" is going to end up in a very dark place.
LOL!!!....

Good morning MMM Blue Bottle Fly,

Buzzing around and looking for another place to land and puke?

Apparently so.

You call yourself "El Segundo" here. But, everybody already knows who you are on these threads and how you go around picking at people instead of engaging in conversation about the thread topic.

Have a nice day, MMM ..... and either buzz off or get with the program.

Rev. Ken

“Plays well with others.”

Since: Jun 07

LIVING WELL*THE BEST REVENGE

#9 Jan 8, 2013
when has anyone every stopped anyone else from having sex?
George

Jacksonville, FL

#10 Jan 8, 2013
El Segundo wrote:
<quoted text>
"There are also consequences for leading people astray and you and those like you will have a heavy price to pay."
The difference between being homosexual and people like "RevKen" who promote homosexuality is like the difference between a drug user and a drug dealer,
I'm afraid that "RevKen" is going to end up in a very dark place.
Or at least with a millstone around his neck.
George

Jacksonville, FL

#11 Jan 8, 2013
Selecia Jones- JAX FL wrote:
when has anyone every stopped anyone else from having sex?
All you need to do is distribute pictures of yourself and any guy would be stopped dead in his tracks.

“Plays well with others.”

Since: Jun 07

LIVING WELL*THE BEST REVENGE

#12 Jan 8, 2013
George wrote:
<quoted text>
All you need to do is distribute pictures of yourself and any guy would be stopped dead in his tracks.
Funny...that just is not the case...

It must be pitiful to have a linear view of the world...

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#13 Jan 8, 2013
Selecia Jones- JAX FL wrote:
<quoted text>Funny...that just is not the case...
It must be pitiful to have a linear view of the world...
According to the theoretical astrophysicists, that is the view you get right before you are permanently sucked into a black hole.

Better paddle a little faster, Georgiekins.

“Plays well with others.”

Since: Jun 07

LIVING WELL*THE BEST REVENGE

#14 Jan 8, 2013
George wrote:
<quoted text>
All you need to do is distribute pictures of yourself and any guy would be stopped dead in his tracks.
Why don't you be a MAN George and come to Bible Study at the Cathedral in the morning...11 a.m.? WAITING FOR YOU!!!!
Think Again

Farmville, NC

#15 Jan 9, 2013
Selecia Jones- JAX FL wrote:
<quoted text>Why don't you be a MAN George and come to Bible Study at the Cathedral in the morning...11 a.m.? WAITING FOR YOU!!!!
Bible Study with a leader that is most likely like ken. No thanks!
George

Jacksonville, FL

#16 Jan 9, 2013
Selecia Jones- JAX FL wrote:
<quoted text>Why don't you be a MAN George and come to Bible Study at the Cathedral in the morning...11 a.m.? WAITING FOR YOU!!!!
Several reasons:
1. I have a job. 11 A.M. is part of the normal work day.
2. I have led Bible studies and currentlyattend one.
3. The Gay Bible used by you and yours is not worthy of study.
4. I'd have a hard time keeping down my breakfast.

“Plays well with others.”

Since: Jun 07

LIVING WELL*THE BEST REVENGE

#18 Jan 9, 2013
George wrote:
<quoted text>
Several reasons:
1. I have a job. 11 A.M. is part of the normal work day.
2. I have led Bible studies and currentlyattend one.
3. The Gay Bible used by you and yours is not worthy of study.
4. I'd have a hard time keeping down my breakfast.
So since when is the King James Version the GAY Bible? I use several of them...KJV, New Revised Standard Version with Apocrypha, New International Version...to name a few...also, McArthur's Study Bible...have that one on my Kindle...very handy.

But since you can't make it at 11....then I'll be there today at 5:15 for dinner and evening classes begin tonight as well....or see you on Sunday morning?

The Lectionary readings are great this week.
Ethan

Pekin, IL

#20 Jan 9, 2013
Selecia Jones- JAX FL wrote:
<quoted text>So since when is the King James Version the GAY Bible? I use several of them...KJV, New Revised Standard Version with Apocrypha, New International Version...to name a few...also, McArthur's Study Bible...have that one on my Kindle...very handy.
But since you can't make it at 11....then I'll be there today at 5:15 for dinner and evening classes begin tonight as well....or see you on Sunday morning?
The Lectionary readings are great this week.
If you've ever read one of your Bibles, you know that it repeatedly condemns all homosexual behavior.
Fitz

Roseville, MI

#21 Jan 9, 2013
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
Funny. I basically said the same thing - except for one difference.
In taking Christ Jesus as my guide and mentor, I have not found fault in others by using scripture to condemn. Instead, my emphasis is to turn myself and my view of others TO the Lord.
There is a difference, TA.
The Church of England is also taking Christ Jesus as its guide. Christ never married and never had sexual relations. Unmarried men who dont have sex (celibates) are modeling Christ and his call to the priesthood.

This is as old as Christianity itself & indeed has its roots in Judaism. Will the elevation of homosexual Bishops lead to the ending and indeed pathologizing of the practice of celibacy.

If you indeed believe in celibacy as a practice then you should start with your own flock & be deeply concerned with the penchant on the left for encouraging and dismissing promiscuity.

If you believe in authentic monogomy within same-sex "marriages" then you should start with that beam in your own eye. As you well know the practice of authentic monogomy is regularly called into question by the cultural left.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#22 Jan 10, 2013
Fitz wrote:
<quoted text>
The Church of England is also taking Christ Jesus as its guide. Christ never married and never had sexual relations. Unmarried men who dont have sex (celibates) are modeling Christ and his call to the priesthood.
This is as old as Christianity itself & indeed has its roots in Judaism. Will the elevation of homosexual Bishops lead to the ending and indeed pathologizing of the practice of celibacy.
If you indeed believe in celibacy as a practice then you should start with your own flock & be deeply concerned with the penchant on the left for encouraging and dismissing promiscuity.
If you believe in authentic monogomy within same-sex "marriages" then you should start with that beam in your own eye. As you well know the practice of authentic monogomy is regularly called into question by the cultural left.
Who said anything about the "cultural left?"

I certainly didn't and if you think that I somehow did, you are mistaken.

What I said, in a nutshell, is that forced celibacy, by vow of celibacy as a requisite to ordination into the priesthood, often causes problems in suppression of a normal part of individual human devlopment.

If you do not understand this to be true, you have some reading to do in order to get yourself up to a point of modern understanding of human sexuality.

It is simply a fact. Attempts to deny this fact have caused and will continue to cause problems.

In my opinion, celibacy should be a personal choice that is to be respected by others. But, I do not believe that any reasonable purpose is served by making celibacy a requirement for ordination.

Jesus took a number of disciples. Many of them were married. Many had children. A Christian family life is completely normal.

Rev. Ken
Fitz

Roseville, MI

#23 Jan 10, 2013
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
Who said anything about the "cultural left?"
I certainly didn't and if you think that I somehow did, you are mistaken.
What I said, in a nutshell, is that forced celibacy, by vow of celibacy as a requisite to ordination into the priesthood, often causes problems in suppression of a normal part of individual human devlopment.
If you do not understand this to be true, you have some reading to do in order to get yourself up to a point of modern understanding of human sexuality.
It is simply a fact. Attempts to deny this fact have caused and will continue to cause problems.
In my opinion, celibacy should be a personal choice that is to be respected by others. But, I do not believe that any reasonable purpose is served by making celibacy a requirement for ordination.
Jesus took a number of disciples. Many of them were married. Many had children. A Christian family life is completely normal.
Rev. Ken
So your another "Christian" pro-homosexual who dosent believe the practice of celibacy " serves any reasonable purpose"

Wow- so does the "cultural left"..

In fact you believe it "causes problems in suppression of a normal part of individual human devlopment".

Yet Christianity has practiced it for thousands of years including its founder and savior Jesus Christ?

Paul would agree with you that its not for everyone but is a unique and specially honored way to serve Gods call.

The tail is not waging the dog with you "rev" - you seem to be simply a "Christian" apolygist for the cultural lefts viewpoint.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#24 Jan 10, 2013
Fitz wrote:
<quoted text>
So your another "Christian" pro-homosexual who dosent believe the practice of celibacy " serves any reasonable purpose"
Wow- so does the "cultural left"..
In fact you believe it "causes problems in suppression of a normal part of individual human devlopment".
Yet Christianity has practiced it for thousands of years including its founder and savior Jesus Christ?
Paul would agree with you that its not for everyone but is a unique and specially honored way to serve Gods call.
The tail is not waging the dog with you "rev" - you seem to be simply a "Christian" apolygist for the cultural lefts viewpoint.
LOL!!!....

Well,... I guess we'll see which one of us is the apologist.

But, the ones who so vociferously criticize the "left" are usually the ones who are also so eager to quote Jesus as he said, "Have you not read that a man shall ..." citing the human pair-bond as the cause for marriage.

Using your reasoning, one would have to deny the value of Christ's advocation of marriage.

Furthermore, though we do not have any particularly positive proof that Jesus was a normal heterosexual, He is often compared to Adam, a normal man who did take a mate. And, most scholars of Christ would agree that the relationship between Jesus and Mary Magdalene was unusually exclusive. I don't say He and she were married. But, if evidence one day was found to that end, I would not be upset about it.

His first recorded miracle was to bless the wine at a wedding. That ought to carry some significance, whatever your views may be.

Let's qualify your - or my - statement, a bit: I said or meant to say that forced celibacy served no particularly relevent purpose. Celibacy as a personal choice is another matter - a very personal and private matter.

Forced celibacy - the practice of a blanket requirement of a vow of celibacy - as a condition to take on in order to become ordained has proven to be a cause for serious and significant corruption. And Yes, it is a centuries old practice that has resulted in centuries old problems. The institutional denial of these problems is now a clear and present danger to the integrity of the priesthood. It cannot be denied and swept under the rug or shoved back into the closet anymore.

You can say what you want. But, to continue to deny these problems and the cause of these problems is to perpetuate the corruption.

Everybody now understands the consequences of these corrupt practices.

Rev. Ken
Fitz

Roseville, MI

#25 Jan 10, 2013
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL!!!....
Well,... I guess we'll see which one of us is the apologist.
But, the ones who so vociferously criticize the "left" are usually the ones who are also so eager to quote Jesus as he said, "Have you not read that a man shall ..." citing the human pair-bond as the cause for marriage.
Using your reasoning, one would have to deny the value of Christ's advocation of marriage.
Furthermore, though we do not have any particularly positive proof that Jesus was a normal heterosexual, He is often compared to Adam, a normal man who did take a mate. And, most scholars of Christ would agree that the relationship between Jesus and Mary Magdalene was unusually exclusive. I don't say He and she were married. But, if evidence one day was found to that end, I would not be upset about it.
His first recorded miracle was to bless the wine at a wedding. That ought to carry some significance, whatever your views may be.
Let's qualify your - or my - statement, a bit: I said or meant to say that forced celibacy served no particularly relevent purpose. Celibacy as a personal choice is another matter - a very personal and private matter.
Forced celibacy - the practice of a blanket requirement of a vow of celibacy - as a condition to take on in order to become ordained has proven to be a cause for serious and significant corruption. And Yes, it is a centuries old practice that has resulted in centuries old problems. The institutional denial of these problems is now a clear and present danger to the integrity of the priesthood. It cannot be denied and swept under the rug or shoved back into the closet anymore.
You can say what you want. But, to continue to deny these problems and the cause of these problems is to perpetuate the corruption.
Everybody now understands the consequences of these corrupt practices.
Rev. Ken
How do you take the practice of celibacy and construe it as a neation of marriage?

And how do you take the absence of evidence (Jesus And M.M.) as evidence that a relationship of a sexual nature even may have occured..(given the strict moral code of a Jewish man at the time)

And how do you define the requirment of priestly celibabcy of its existance in multiple denominations as "forced" - no one is or can be "forced" to join the preisthood..

And what are these "coruptions" you are refering to? I hope you are ready to cite sources and evidence that prove the practice of celibacy is somehow linked to these unstated "coruptions"..

And if so, you are left defending a "deeply personal" personal practice that has been held up for centuries as a model of Christian witness of the person of Jesus Christ.

You seem to have a religion of Rev Ken with a congragation of you, yourself and I.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#26 Jan 11, 2013
Fitz wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you take the practice of celibacy and construe it as a neation of marriage?
And how do you take the absence of evidence (Jesus And M.M.) as evidence that a relationship of a sexual nature even may have occured..(given the strict moral code of a Jewish man at the time)
And how do you define the requirment of priestly celibabcy of its existance in multiple denominations as "forced" - no one is or can be "forced" to join the preisthood..
And what are these "coruptions" you are refering to? I hope you are ready to cite sources and evidence that prove the practice of celibacy is somehow linked to these unstated "coruptions"..
And if so, you are left defending a "deeply personal" personal practice that has been held up for centuries as a model of Christian witness of the person of Jesus Christ.
You seem to have a religion of Rev Ken with a congragation of you, yourself and I.
LMAO!!!.....

You are so full of yourself and your mischaracterizations that you can't understand what you read!

Your question #1: I didn't do that. You did that. You were the one who touted Jesus Christ as having been celibate - an assumption that you cannot prove. Then you used His supposed celibacy to justify the Roman Church's demand for celibacy.

If its such a great thing, why were most of the priests and bishops in the Early Church, whether male or female, married?
.....

Your question #2: I did not suggest that the relationship between Jesus and Mary Magdalene was physically sexual. However, when she found Him outside of the tomb, what did He say? He said, "Touch me not...." So, obviously, she had touched Him at some other time. Make of it whatever you want. But, their relationship, sexual or not, was obviously physical. Furthermore, biblical scholars suggest that she was the one who had dressed His feet with the expensive oil/cream. Another physical act.

Yes. His relationship with her is quite obviously unusually exclusive, physical and more than casual; sexual or not.
.....

Your question #3: I don't expect you to understand the call to the priesthood. But, I will tell you this: It cannot be ignored. It can only be accepted or refused.

There is no need for you to feign ignorance. Celibacy is a traditional requirement in many spiritual and mystery schools. It is called a "monastic" life.
.....

Your question #4: Unstated corruptions?

Don't be ridiculous. The Roman Catholic Church has now paid out HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS over these "unstated corruptions!"

I didn't say that the practice of celibacy led to or is linked to these "unstated corruptions." YOU said that!

What I said was that the practice of the forced vow of celibacy, as a requirement and prerequisite to ordination into the all-male priesthood, is a very likely cause for institutional sexual corruption.

Yes, I said THIS and I meant it! To deny this is to deny the facts. Furthermore, the Roman Catholic hierarchy IS presently denying the facts. And everybody knows it! What's more, they haven't got a clue of what to do about it. Their only remedy is to try to put the genie back in the bottle - and he ain't goin' back in without a fight!

Your last statement: I have a "congregation." But, as far as my congregation being composed of "you" and "I," ...

Well,....(LOL!!!...), You said it! So, I guess "you" are included. Welcome aboard!

As far as the many centuries of certain beliefs and traditions are concerned, that seems to be much of the problem, doesn't it?
Yes. It does and is.

For many centuries, many denominations of the Christian religion have propagated and taught bad practices and corrupt ways and have consistently defended their errors, even to the point of outright denial and lies at the expense of little innocent children.

How do you think Jesus regards these corrupt practices in His own priesthood?

Not really too difficult to figure.

Rev. Ken

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