Gay men sue 'conversion' therapists

There are 20 comments on the WPTZ-TV Plattsburgh story from Nov 27, 2012, titled Gay men sue 'conversion' therapists. In it, WPTZ-TV Plattsburgh reports that:

Before Sheldon Bruck told his orthodox Jewish parents he was gay, the teenager looked for a way out of homosexuality.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at WPTZ-TV Plattsburgh.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#68 Nov 30, 2012
Not Yet Equal wrote:
Your "medical fact" is not a fact. While true many gay people suffer from stress and depression as a result of the prejudice, bigotry, and legal discrimination they encounter, many others are not affected, and live happy, well adjusted lives.
Where do you get that crap? lol

http://www.healthyplace.com/gender/depression...

More than 1,200 gay men and lesbians were surveyed for the K-Y Brand® Liquid Community Health Survey.

Almost 75 percent of the respondents to the survey believe that depression is more common among gay men and lesbians than in the general population.
Other findings of the survey include:

· More than 70 percent of lesbians and more than 60 percent of gay men have sought or are actively considering mental health counselling.

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#69 Nov 30, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
You're quite pathetic when you want to be pathetic.
Definition of SWITCH Merriam-Webster
2
: an act of switching: as
b : a shift from one to another
c : a change from the usual
A bisexual can switch/change/redirect/refocus /shift from one sexual orientation to a different sexual orientation.
If you don't like the words switch/change/redirect/refocus /shift etc that describes what a bisexual does, when they move back and forth from one attraction to the other concerning sexual orientations, invent new words that'll satisfy yourself :)
No dear, even if someone who is bisexual remains on one side or the other of the homosexual/heterosexual dichotomy for an extended period of time in regards to their behavior, they remain bisexual. They have not become exclusively same sex or opposite sex attracted, they just aren't acting on those other attractions, or so you hope. Conversion therapy cannot even make actual heterosexuals out of bisexuals, even if they are predominately that way to begin with. It can possibly guilt them into heterosexual exclusive behaviors, but it can also guilt them into increasingly risky ones of the non-heterosexual variety, as those damned attractions just won't go away and now that you're focusing on them ALL THE TIME...

“Luke laughs at hypocrites!”

Since: Sep 10

Palm Springs, California

#70 Nov 30, 2012
JrEsq wrote:
<quoted text>
What would gays do without "tight asses"?
NO one gets near MY cellar door.

Is that all you think that gays do? Think again. Too much trouble and too messy.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#71 Nov 30, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Where do you get that crap? lol
http://www.healthyplace.com/gender/depression...
More than 1,200 gay men and lesbians were surveyed for the K-Y Brand® Liquid Community Health Survey.
Almost 75 percent of the respondents to the survey believe that depression is more common among gay men and lesbians than in the general population.
Other findings of the survey include:
· More than 70 percent of lesbians and more than 60 percent of gay men have sought or are actively considering mental health counselling.
Lets look again at what I said: "While true many gay people suffer from stress and depression as a result of the prejudice, bigotry, and legal discrimination they encounter, many others are not affected, and live happy, well adjusted lives."

You article (despite its limitations) supports this. It does not contradict it. I quoted similar information from the APA: "Where problems occur, they are closely associated with experiences of bias and discrimination in their environments."

And: "Being lesbian, gay, bisexual and/or transgender is not a risk factor for suicide," Powers emphasized. "Actually, it is the social stigma and discrimination that LGBT youth experience that results in feelings and behaviors which are, in turn, associated with suicidal behavior."
(The American Association of Suicidology)

I had also gone into somewhat graphic detail about how severe the effects of prejudice and legal discrimination can be, including resulting in self destruction. I thought it was important to point out that while prejudice and discrimination destroy some lives, others, especially with the support of family and friends, realize they are not responsible for the prejudice of others, and many survive with little to no damage. As I also explained, many go through a period of depression when first dealing with their sexual orientation, while others do not. Some successfully resolve their depression, while others do not.

So our disagreement it seems comes down to what you mean by "most". While studies show a greater degree of depression in LGBT people, figures vary. The survey you cite is not a representative sample, though I wouldn't argue with the finding that "75 percent of the respondents to the survey believe that depression is more common among gay men and lesbians than in the general population." That does not mean that 75 percent suffer from depression. And even if the figures on how many have or might seek counseling, that does not translate to 60 or 70 percent are actively suffering from depression. It doesn't take into account the number who have successfully resolved or managed their depression.

The important point here is that being gay does not automatically result in mental health problems as our opponents would have you believe, yet for many but not all, prejudice and discrimination result in needless harm in a wide variety of ways, including depression and self destruction as well as violence from others.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#72 Nov 30, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
And you're very wrong. They do switch/change sexual orientations as they see fit. A bisexual encompasses two sexual orientations and not just one as a heterosexual or homosexual.
A bisexual is both a heterosexual and a homosexual. Therefore they can very well switch/change their sexual orientation at will to fit their needs/desires. They can become what's defined as a homosexual for years to decades or, they can become what's defined as a heterosexual for years to decades or, they can be the definition of a bisexual and be engaged to both sexual orientations at the same time for years to decades.
I agree with Rick, but let me try to express it differently.

It appears you are still conflating emotional and physical attraction (orientation), with the expression of that attraction.

Orientation is about attractions even if those attractions are never expressed.

Using the Continuum model based on the Kinsey Scale, bisexual people are attracted to members of both sexes to various degrees, while people at the ends of the continuum are attracted exclusively to either the same or opposite sex.

Many choose to commit to one person, or at least one person at a time. That does not stop them from being attracted to others, just from acting on any other attractions. Most gay, straight, and bisexual people admit they find many other people attractive, they just don't act on it. Bisexual people committed to one person of either sex still find some of both sexes attractive, they just don't act on it. If you are speaking of your own experience, I wouldn't try to tell you that you are not experiencing what you are experiencing, yet most self reporting shows bisexuals remain attracted to some members of both sexes even though they may be committed to a monogamous relationship, just as exclusively gay and straight people will tell you they have no orientation toward the opposite or same sex (respectively), but find more than one person attractive, even when committed to monogamy.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#73 Nov 30, 2012
Curteese wrote:
<quoted text>NO one gets near MY cellar door.
Is that all you think that gays do? Think again. Too much trouble and too messy.
For many straight folks, the missionary position is the only option allowed I guess.

Even more haven't even heard of frottage.
Mona Lott

Hoboken, NJ

#74 Dec 1, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
And you're very wrong. They do switch/change sexual orientations as they see fit. A bisexual encompasses two sexual orientations and not just one as a heterosexual or homosexual.
A bisexual is both a heterosexual and a homosexual. Therefore they can very well switch/change their sexual orientation at will to fit their needs/desires.
No, dear. Their sexual orientation is: bisexual. It does not change. You don't get to make up definitions to suit your own silly purposes. Bisexual: attracted to both sexes. END OF STORY.

“Luke laughs at hypocrites!”

Since: Sep 10

Palm Springs, California

#75 Dec 2, 2012
Not Yet Equal wrote:
<quoted text>
For many straight folks, the missionary position is the only option allowed I guess.
Even more haven't even heard of frottage.
Haven't had enough coffee yet to think about straights DOING it, please.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#76 Dec 2, 2012
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>No dear, even if someone who is bisexual remains on one side or the other of the homosexual/heterosexual dichotomy for an extended period of time in regards to their behavior, they remain bisexual. They have not become exclusively same sex or opposite sex attracted, they just aren't acting on those other attractions, or so you hope.
I didn't dispute what a bisexual was dear. The other poster was making the dispute of what they aren't to them.
And yes, bisexuals do act on their "attractions". That is why their called bisexuals. They can act on either attraction at will.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#77 Dec 2, 2012
Not Yet Equal wrote:
<quoted text>
Lets look again at what I said: "While true many gay people suffer from stress and depression as a result of the prejudice, bigotry, and legal discrimination they encounter, many others are not affected, and live happy, well adjusted lives."
You article (despite its limitations) supports this.
The way you wrote your statement was "..many gay people..." and you finished "..many others.." insinuating the higher percentage of same sex people don't suffer depression. Thus I disagreed with you. And even if you meant it 50/50 you were still incorrect.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#78 Dec 2, 2012
Not Yet Equal wrote:
The important point here is that being gay does not automatically result in mental health problems as our opponents would have you believe, yet for many but not all, prejudice and discrimination result in needless harm in a wide variety of ways, including depression and self destruction as well as violence from others.
I've did a lot of reading into this out of curiosity. Certain ways that children are raised up into by parent(s) will mean all the difference between psychological disorders verses not having any as in correlation to parenting.
Same sex orientated children suffer more psychological disorders then many other children. From the APA site...
Several studies suggest that gay men, lesbians and bisexuals appear to have higher rates of some mental disorders compared with heterosexuals, although not to the level of a serious pathology. Discrimination may help fuel these higher rates.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#79 Dec 2, 2012
Mona Lott wrote:
<quoted text>
No, dear. Their sexual orientation is: bisexual. It does not change. You don't get to make up definitions to suit your own silly purposes. Bisexual: attracted to both sexes. END OF STORY.
Being bisexual is an explanation for while some grow with a single attraction, the rest grow with a double attraction. And dear, bisexual is a term for someone that is born having two sexual orientations. That is why their called "bisexual" meaning a person having dual sexual orientations. Get it?
A homosexual is someone that's attracted to a single sex which pinpoints them to being either A gay or B lesbian of a single sexual orientation.
A bisexual is someone that's attracted to two sexual orientations which pinpoints them to being bisexual with dual sexual orientations.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#80 Dec 2, 2012
Not Yet Equal wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree with Rick, but let me try to express it differently.
It appears you are still conflating emotional and physical attraction (orientation), with the expression of that attraction.
Orientation is about attractions even if those attractions are never expressed.
Umm not. I was speaking of both. I was speaking mainly of relationships, not a one night stand. A relationship (usually)begins with physical attraction and then the emotional attraction takes place.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#81 Dec 3, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Umm not. I was speaking of both. I was speaking mainly of relationships, not a one night stand. A relationship (usually)begins with physical attraction and then the emotional attraction takes place.
The point we are trying to make here is that a person still has an orientation even if never expressed through actions. People who have made a commitment to celibacy, still have attractions, they just don't act on them. Even most of those not committed to celibacy do not act on every attraction, especially when in a monogamous relationship.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#82 Dec 3, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
The way you wrote your statement was "..many gay people..." and you finished "..many others.." insinuating the higher percentage of same sex people don't suffer depression. Thus I disagreed with you. And even if you meant it 50/50 you were still incorrect.
You are adding content not there. As long as prejudice and discrimination continue, it will remain impossible to know the true number of gay people, and what percentages suffer from depression and other problems, even though we have plenty of reasons to believe the rates are higher than in the straight population. Yet we know that while true many gay people suffer from stress and depression as a result of the prejudice, bigotry, and legal discrimination they encounter, many others are not affected, and live happy, well adjusted lives.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#83 Dec 3, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
I've did a lot of reading into this out of curiosity. Certain ways that children are raised up into by parent(s) will mean all the difference between psychological disorders verses not having any as in correlation to parenting.
Same sex orientated children suffer more psychological disorders then many other children. From the APA site...
Several studies suggest that gay men, lesbians and bisexuals appear to have higher rates of some mental disorders compared with heterosexuals, although not to the level of a serious pathology. Discrimination may help fuel these higher rates.
We agree gay people suffer "higher rates" of depression and suicidal behavior than straight peers. Yet "higher rates" does not mean everyone is affected. Many are not, especially when they have the support of family and other social support systems.
I Smell A Rat

El Segundo, CA

#84 Dec 3, 2012
Considering the dishonest tactics homosexuals utilize, I would not be surprised if there exists a homosexual campaign to seek out conversion therapy with the intention of later filing a lawsuit against the therapist, in order to bankrupt the industry.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#85 Dec 3, 2012
I Smell A Rat wrote:
Considering the dishonest tactics homosexuals utilize, I would not be surprised if there exists a homosexual campaign to seek out conversion therapy with the intention of later filing a lawsuit against the therapist, in order to bankrupt the industry.
Your attempt to demonize all gay people fails to alter the fact such "therapy" has been shown to be ineffective as well as harmful to the point of causing death. Deflection and rationalization do not alter this fact.
JrEsq

El Segundo, CA

#86 Dec 3, 2012
Not Yet Equal wrote:
<quoted text>
Your attempt to demonize all gay people fails to alter the fact such "therapy" has been shown to be ineffective as well as harmful to the point of causing death. Deflection and rationalization do not alter this fact.
My post was not an attempt to "demonize" gay people, but only to illustrate the deceptive practices they sometimes employ, such as faked hate crimes. Deceptive practices enabled by rationalization, or belief that the end justifies the means.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#87 Dec 3, 2012
JrEsq wrote:
<quoted text>
My post was not an attempt to "demonize" gay people, but only to illustrate the deceptive practices they sometimes employ, such as faked hate crimes. Deceptive practices enabled by rationalization, or belief that the end justifies the means.
The desperate actions of a few no more characterize gay people than Fred Phelps or Tony Perkins or Ted Haggard represent all straight people. Your choice of words lumped all gay people together and in doing, demonizes and dehumanizes gay people.

Again, this view allows you to ignore the fact all of the research shows this "therapy" is based on shame and guilt, is ineffective, and can be harmful to the point of death.

And while there are documented reports of faked hate crimes, there are also well documented hate crimes with gay people having the highest rate of attacks, and those attacks are more severe than in other categories according to the FBI. The belief gay people are not worthy of equal legal treatment provides an excuse for those who would translate their anti-gay beliefs into actions.

"Ideology assailants report that their crimes stem from their negative beliefs and attitudes about homosexuality that they perceive other people in the community share. They see themselves as enforcing social morals." (APA)

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