Gay men sue 'conversion' therapists

Gay men sue 'conversion' therapists

There are 111 comments on the WPTZ-TV Plattsburgh story from Nov 27, 2012, titled Gay men sue 'conversion' therapists. In it, WPTZ-TV Plattsburgh reports that:

Before Sheldon Bruck told his orthodox Jewish parents he was gay, the teenager looked for a way out of homosexuality.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at WPTZ-TV Plattsburgh.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#44 Nov 28, 2012
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>The Book says that God works in mysterious ways and while what these men endured in their pursuit of heterosexuality in the name of God might seem too silly to be true, who are YOU to say that this won't work. After all, it's just the kind of therapy that made most of the leaders of JONAH the kind of men they are today.
The scary thing is that what went on here probably isn't some rogue exception, but the general rule for these religious groups f*cking with the homosexual soul in the name o' God.
Try some facts I left out that are relevant to these people wanting a sexual orientation change okay?
If you are strictly attracted to the same sex or the opposite sex, nothing you will do will gain you a conversion to being attracted to what your not attracted to, get it? No therapy or anything else will magically convert your natural attraction.
So that leaves bisexuals. Bisexuals will feel they have changed their sexual attraction because they are naturally attracted to both sexes, maybe the same and maybe one sex more than the other.
Point being, a bisexual that is mostly attracted to the same sex, if they desire to become attracted to the opposite sex it can happen because they already have an attraction to the opposite sex. Understand?
A true heterosexual or homosexual will never achieve an opposite sexual attraction. But a true bisexual that is mostly or equally attracted to one or both sexes, their conversion will seem sincere and true and it will be. Because they are attracted to both sexes, get it?

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#45 Nov 28, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Try some facts I left out that are relevant to these people wanting a sexual orientation change okay?
If you are strictly attracted to the same sex or the opposite sex, nothing you will do will gain you a conversion to being attracted to what your not attracted to, get it? No therapy or anything else will magically convert your natural attraction.
So that leaves bisexuals. Bisexuals will feel they have changed their sexual attraction because they are naturally attracted to both sexes, maybe the same and maybe one sex more than the other.
Point being, a bisexual that is mostly attracted to the same sex, if they desire to become attracted to the opposite sex it can happen because they already have an attraction to the opposite sex. Understand?
A true heterosexual or homosexual will never achieve an opposite sexual attraction. But a true bisexual that is mostly or equally attracted to one or both sexes, their conversion will seem sincere and true and it will be. Because they are attracted to both sexes, get it?
A bisexual person needs no "conversion". They already have the capacity to be attracted to either sex. All they need to do is find the right person, and if they feel socially obligated to only act on their attractions to the opposite sex they can. No "conversion therapy" is needed.

Like people on the straight and gay ends of the bisexual continuum, we all choose to act on our attractions or not to act. We do not choose our attractions.

And why would they want to change? The only reason would be to appease an irrational prejudice, taught to them as a child and reinforced by others who wrongly believe their attractions are an immoral choice.

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#46 Nov 28, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Try some facts I left out that are relevant to these people wanting a sexual orientation change okay?
If you are strictly attracted to the same sex or the opposite sex, nothing you will do will gain you a conversion to being attracted to what your not attracted to, get it? No therapy or anything else will magically convert your natural attraction.
So that leaves bisexuals. Bisexuals will feel they have changed their sexual attraction because they are naturally attracted to both sexes, maybe the same and maybe one sex more than the other.
Point being, a bisexual that is mostly attracted to the same sex, if they desire to become attracted to the opposite sex it can happen because they already have an attraction to the opposite sex. Understand?
A true heterosexual or homosexual will never achieve an opposite sexual attraction. But a true bisexual that is mostly or equally attracted to one or both sexes, their conversion will seem sincere and true and it will be. Because they are attracted to both sexes, get it?
What on Earth are you babbling about dear? The reality is, even the non-freaky, non-borderline sexually abusive forms of these alleged therapies can neither eliminate same sex attractions nor create heterosexual ones. There is another reality however, if you really, really believe, the human mind can believe in just about anything, especially if God's imprimatur has been stamped on it. JONAH and other faith based programs are run almost entirely by self-professed "ex-gays" who have bought into these attempts to flock with God's handiwork hook, line and sinker. These are also probably the ONLY people for whom this therapy has ever been "successful", people who more or less believe themselves to be no longer whatever they thought they were in the first place, or at least keeping their legs crossed, sometimes.
JrEsq

United States

#47 Nov 28, 2012
It is interesting that a straight wanting to convert to homosexuality is almost unheard of. If he did, the straights would simply shrug their shoulders, acknowledging that a person has a right to self-determination.
Yet when a gay attempts conversion to heterosexuality, the gays treat that person as a turncoat, and stab him in the back.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#48 Nov 28, 2012
Not Yet Equal wrote:
<quoted text>
A bisexual person needs no "conversion". They already have the capacity to be attracted to either sex. All they need to do is find the right person, and if they feel socially obligated to only act on their attractions to the opposite sex they can. No "conversion therapy" is needed.
Like people on the straight and gay ends of the bisexual continuum, we all choose to act on our attractions or not to act. We do not choose our attractions.
And why would they want to change? The only reason would be to appease an irrational prejudice, taught to them as a child and reinforced by others who wrongly believe their attractions are an immoral choice.
I didn't say they needed conversion. I was replying to the other poster's comment.
In conversion therapy clinics there are two types of patients. True homosexuals who will never successfully convert because it's against their chemical make up that established their attraction.
The second group where there's claimed success stories are bisexuals. A true bisexual can switch their sexual orientation because their attracted to both males and females. Some don't realize this facet of their self till their in a situation that brings it out in them. Like in a conversion therapy clinic where they successfully become attracted to a sex they didn't think they had an attraction to for how ever long before the therapy began, they now find they are attracted to and go on to have relationships with people of this different sexual orientation, understand?
By the way, for whatever the reason may be behind it, it's a medical fact that most homosexuals are not happy campers to describe it loosely. Most suffer depression to various degrees.
I would guess if any research has been done on the topic, you would find most adults that subject themselves to conversion therapy suffer depression and are not happy people. These types would as anyone that suffers depression and aren't happy with their lives or self, will go to extremes to find a "miracle cure" to make things just a bit better for themselves.
Mona Lott

West New York, NJ

#49 Nov 28, 2012
JrEsq wrote:
It is interesting that a straight wanting to convert to homosexuality is almost unheard of. If he did, the straights would simply shrug their shoulders, acknowledging that a person has a right to self-determination.
people cannot change their sexual orientation. What is unheard of is an ex-gay. NONE of them can talk about being ex-gay without a big mouthful of Jesus. It's self-serving bullshit and they know it.
Mona Lott

West New York, NJ

#50 Nov 28, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
A true bisexual can switch their sexual orientation because their attracted to both males and females.
Switch? Is there something about the concept of BIsexual that escapes you? Switch from bisexual to bisexual? What the hell is wrong with you?

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#51 Nov 28, 2012
Mona Lott wrote:
<quoted text>
Switch? Is there something about the concept of BIsexual that escapes you? Switch from bisexual to bisexual? What the hell is wrong with you?
Must we do the ABC's of sexual orientation for you?
Bisexuality is having the chemical make up to switch sexual orientation attractions. A bisexual can remain attracted to one sex for decades. Then something can happen in their life and they will switch their attraction to the opposite sex. They may do this switch multiple times in their life or they may just do it once.
That is why their called bisexuals. They have the ability to be attracted to both sexes and can "choose/switch" at will which sex to feel attracted to and to be involved with. I realize now you'll just do your best to complicate that reasoning so have at it :)
Mona Lott

West New York, NJ

#52 Nov 29, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Must we do the ABC's of sexual orientation for you?
Bisexuality is having the chemical make up to switch sexual orientation attractions. A bisexual can remain attracted to one sex for decades. Then something can happen in their life and they will switch their attraction to the opposite sex. They may do this switch multiple times in their life or they may just do it once.
That is why their called bisexuals. They have the ability to be attracted to both sexes and can "choose/switch" at will which sex to feel attracted to and to be involved with. I realize now you'll just do your best to complicate that reasoning so have at it :)
There is no need to make it complicated. Bisexual means attracted to bath sexes it is NOT called bisexual Because they can "switch." They aren't "switch"-sexuals. A bisexual man in a relationship with a woman is still bisexual. He doesn't "switch" to heterosexual.

Where do you guys come up with this bullshit?

“Luke laughs at hypocrites!”

Since: Sep 10

Palm Springs, California

#53 Nov 29, 2012
JrEsq wrote:
It is interesting that a straight wanting to convert to homosexuality is almost unheard of. If he did, the straights would simply shrug their shoulders, acknowledging that a person has a right to self-determination.
Yet when a gay attempts conversion to heterosexuality, the gays treat that person as a turncoat, and stab him in the back.
You just contradicted yourself. Yes, it is IMPOSSIBLE to turn a straight gay and if I heard about a straight "converting" that would mean that he was gay all along, and was simply hiding it.

How many years would it take to turn YOU gay? How much training or cajoling? "IMPOSSIBLE!" you would say.

Well, welcome to OUR world.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#55 Nov 29, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't say they needed conversion. I was replying to the other poster's comment.
In conversion therapy clinics there are two types of patients. True homosexuals who will never successfully convert because it's against their chemical make up that established their attraction.
The second group where there's claimed success stories are bisexuals. A true bisexual can switch their sexual orientation because their attracted to both males and females. Some don't realize this facet of their self till their in a situation that brings it out in them. Like in a conversion therapy clinic where they successfully become attracted to a sex they didn't think they had an attraction to for how ever long before the therapy began, they now find they are attracted to and go on to have relationships with people of this different sexual orientation, understand?
By the way, for whatever the reason may be behind it, it's a medical fact that most homosexuals are not happy campers to describe it loosely. Most suffer depression to various degrees.
I would guess if any research has been done on the topic, you would find most adults that subject themselves to conversion therapy suffer depression and are not happy people. These types would as anyone that suffers depression and aren't happy with their lives or self, will go to extremes to find a "miracle cure" to make things just a bit better for themselves.
As others have since explained, a bisexual is attracted to some (but not all) members of both sexes. They do not "switch" orientation. Bisexuality is their orientation. They may choose to only act on their attractions to the same or opposite sex, but how they choose to express their orientation does not alter their orientation.

Your "medical fact" is not a fact. While true many gay people suffer from stress and depression as a result of the prejudice, bigotry, and legal discrimination they encounter, many others are not affected, and live happy, well adjusted lives.

And yes, those who subject themselves or are subjected by their parents to "conversion therapy" aren't happy, usually because they have been told by family, friends, and their church, that they are not acceptable and loveable as they are, and must change to be accepted. Those who believe those lies, will suffer from the cognitive dissonance that results when confronted with the fact they are not what others expect them to be, and what they have told themselves they need to be to be acceptable. This is usually the result of being brought up in a strict religious group that condemns gay people.

“ WOOF ! ”

Since: Nov 12

Coolidge, AZ

#56 Nov 29, 2012
Not Yet Equal wrote:
"The idea that homosexuality is a mental disorder or that the emergence of same-sex attraction and orientation among some adolescents is in any way abnormal or mentally unhealthy has no support among any mainstream health and mental health professional organizations.
Despite the general consensus of major medical, health, and mental health professions that both heterosexuality and homosexuality are normal expressions of human sexuality, efforts to change sexual orientation through therapy have been adopted by some political and religious organizations and aggressively promoted to the public. However, such efforts have serious potential to harm young people because they present the view that the sexual orientation of lesbian, gay, and bisexual youth is a mental illness or disorder, and they often frame the inability to change one’s sexual orientation as a personal and moral failure.
Because of the aggressive promotion of efforts to change sexual orientation through therapy, a number of medical, health, and mental health professional organizations have issued public statements about the dangers of this approach. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of Social Workers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured.”
The American Academy of Pediatrics advises youth that counseling may be helpful for you if you feel confused about your sexual identity. Avoid any treatments that claim to be able to change a person’s sexual orientation, or treatment ideas that see homosexuality as a sickness."
Just the Facts About Sexual Orientation and Youth [APP]
Well, Thank God they believe that now, because in teh 60's and 70's when I was a teen they certainly claimed being gay was a mental illness. My parents certainly said it was and warned me to "stay away from boys like that" and if a boy said he wanted to have sex with me I should "just say no !"

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#57 Nov 29, 2012
While some gay people are "not happy campers", many do not let the prejudice of others and the legal discrimination affect them personally. But some, especially in their early years, are negatively affected by prejudice and discrimination.

"Being lesbian, gay, bisexual and/or transgender is not a risk factor for suicide," Powers emphasized. "Actually, it is the social stigma and discrimination that LGBT youth experience that results in feelings and behaviors which are, in turn, associated with suicidal behavior."
(The American Association of Suicidology)

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#58 Nov 29, 2012
"Research has shown that feeling positively about one’s sexual orientation and integrating it into one’s life fosters greater well-being and mental health. This integration often involves disclosing one’s identity to others; it may also entail participating in the gay community. Being able to discuss one’s sexual orientation with others also increases the availability of social support, which is crucial to mental health and psychological well-being. Like heterosexuals, lesbians, gay men, and bisexual people benefit from being able to share their lives with and receive support from family, friends, and acquaintances. Thus, it is not surprising that lesbians and gay men who feel they must conceal their sexual orientation report more frequent mental health concerns than do lesbians and gay men who are more open; they may even have more physical health problems.

Where problems occur, they are closely associated with experiences of bias and discrimination in their environments." (APA)

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#59 Nov 29, 2012
Fa-Foxy wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, Thank God they believe that now, because in teh 60's and 70's when I was a teen they certainly claimed being gay was a mental illness. My parents certainly said it was and warned me to "stay away from boys like that" and if a boy said he wanted to have sex with me I should "just say no !"
While Freud understood being gay was not an illness and needed no cure, he understood the prejudice of others could have a negative effect on well being. That prejudice made its way into the medical community and remnants of it can still be found today. While it was only officially labeled an illness from '52 to '73, it was punished by law before then, and we are still suffering the consequences of that previous era of extreme prejudice and discrimination which has always been a result of the mistranslation and misinterpretation of a few ancient religious texts rather than a result of good science.
Mona Lott

West New York, NJ

#60 Nov 29, 2012
NoQ wrote:
<quoted text>
All this coming from a freak that don't even know what sex you are. A man with a womans name. Stupid Freak. LMFAO
Weak, dude.

I take a look at my enormous penis......
and there is no question I am male.
And no, I'm not showing it to you. Surf for your own porn, closet case.

“Trolls in love with Peaches!”

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#62 Nov 29, 2012
NoQ wrote:
<quoted text>
For a guy with a womans name that wants to be a bitc;h, you must be a TransQueer. Same fking difference Fa$$ot.
Why you on gay thread? You not like women? What is Fa$$ot? Maybe sum money to fat ass peoples?

“Trolls in love with Peaches!”

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#64 Nov 29, 2012
NoQ wrote:
<quoted text>
What's a Fa$$ot???? Are you retarded?? Get that ugly head out of your A$$ and you'll comprehend a little better. Fa$$ot is universal. It's needs no introduction or interpretation. Stupid A$$ HOMO.
What is A$$? That something you pay for sex? So Fa$$ot make me fly in universe for free? What HOMO? Explain self Ms HOMO Fa$$ot. Strange world you live in. Maybe you look for brain damaged thread? Good $$ with your voyage to HOMO. How about a piece of Peach pie$$$$

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#66 Nov 30, 2012
Mona Lott wrote:
<quoted text>There is no need to make it complicated. Bisexual means attracted to bath sexes it is NOT called bisexual Because they can "switch." They aren't "switch"-sexuals. A bisexual man in a relationship with a woman is still bisexual. He doesn't "switch" to heterosexual.
Where do you guys come up with this bullshit?
You're quite pathetic when you want to be pathetic.

Definition of SWITCH Merriam-Webster

2
: an act of switching: as
b : a shift from one to another
c : a change from the usual

A bisexual can switch/change/redirect/refocus /shift from one sexual orientation to a different sexual orientation.
If you don't like the words switch/change/redirect/refocus /shift etc that describes what a bisexual does, when they move back and forth from one attraction to the other concerning sexual orientations, invent new words that'll satisfy yourself :)

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#67 Nov 30, 2012
Not Yet Equal wrote:
<quoted text>
As others have since explained, a bisexual is attracted to some (but not all) members of both sexes. They do not "switch" orientation.
And you're very wrong. They do switch/change sexual orientations as they see fit. A bisexual encompasses two sexual orientations and not just one as a heterosexual or homosexual.
A bisexual is both a heterosexual and a homosexual. Therefore they can very well switch/change their sexual orientation at will to fit their needs/desires. They can become what's defined as a homosexual for years to decades or, they can become what's defined as a heterosexual for years to decades or, they can be the definition of a bisexual and be engaged to both sexual orientations at the same time for years to decades.

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