Transgender murder, hate crime conviction a first

Oct 19, 2009 Full story: www.cnn.com 18
A Colorado man was convicted of first-degree murder and a bias-motivated crime and sentenced to life in prison for killing a transgender teen he met on an online social networking site. It was the first time in the nation that a state hate crime statute resulted in a conviction in a transgender person's murder, the advocacy group Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation said. "This is a landmark decision," said Mindy Barton, the legal director of the Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Community Center of Colorado. Barton attended the trial daily. Full Story
Always

Santa Clara, CA

#1 Oct 19, 2009
All murder is a hate crime.

“safe, sane, consensual...”

Since: Jul 08

perpetual arousal

#2 Oct 19, 2009
I have to disagree with you, Always.

A lot of people who murder - especially those who murder more than once, do it not out of hate...but for a sense of control.

There have been people who have killed indiscriminately out of a sense of rightness, for a feeling of control. I have read of one man who traveled the country killing ugly people, because he felt that the world should be a more beautiful place. He stated that he felt no anger or hate for the people he killed - rather he felt pity, and the sense that he was saving them from a miserable existence.

Not all murder is hate crime - but then again, I have a unique viewpoint, having studied such things while going to college forensic courses.

“Even an Ice Princess can melt.”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#4 Oct 19, 2009
I'm glad Angie got her justice.

“safe, sane, consensual...”

Since: Jul 08

perpetual arousal

#5 Oct 19, 2009
Me too - and I have to admit, although some may dislike me for stating this...I am glad it got treated as a "normal" crime rather than a "hate" crime.

Transgendered people are normal, just like straight people and gay people and black people and white people....and crimes against them should be punished "normally"....not under special circumstances. The quickest way to get the public to treat transgendered as normal is if they are treated normally.

“Even an Ice Princess can melt.”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#6 Oct 19, 2009
But at the same time it is still almost acceptable to kill us. We have a long way to go.

“safe, sane, consensual...”

Since: Jul 08

perpetual arousal

#7 Oct 19, 2009
I am reminded of the saying "A long journey begins with a single step"....yes, there is still a long way to go, but the path is becoming clearer, as is the end of the journey.
lisa vallor

Mesa, AZ

#8 Nov 16, 2009
I am the sister of a marine whom had served in I Iraq during the worst time, the beginning. After he returned he was sent back. he returned and was diagnosed with post-traumatic-stress syndrome. I won't even go into the pain he suffered as a child and adolescent.
The relevance is that when he returned, on Christmas night he went to Hollywood Blvd, picked up a prostitute. The prostitute turned out to be transexual. My brother shot twice in the back of their head. This was early morning December 26,2004. The name she went by was Felicia Moreno. I haven"t looked up the attention his case had reived. But now I am disgusted by how little sympathy is given to ... yes the muderers... Do u think these things just happen. I dont want hate muderers to continue, and I believe all people have a right to live and be respected. But what happened to my brother is just as tragic. No one has the right to say anything negative about him. He lost his life too, gunned down. If you want empathy, learn how to give it. Let the world be one.
Short Left Index Finger

Georgetown, Canada

#9 Nov 16, 2009
The transexual prostitute he murdered had a family too.

“Even an Ice Princess can melt.”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#10 Nov 16, 2009
lisa vallor wrote:
I am the sister of a marine whom had served in I Iraq during the worst time, the beginning. After he returned he was sent back. he returned and was diagnosed with post-traumatic-stress syndrome. I won't even go into the pain he suffered as a child and adolescent.
The relevance is that when he returned, on Christmas night he went to Hollywood Blvd, picked up a prostitute. The prostitute turned out to be transexual. My brother shot twice in the back of their head. This was early morning December 26,2004. The name she went by was Felicia Moreno. I haven"t looked up the attention his case had reived. But now I am disgusted by how little sympathy is given to ... yes the muderers... Do u think these things just happen. I dont want hate muderers to continue, and I believe all people have a right to live and be respected. But what happened to my brother is just as tragic. No one has the right to say anything negative about him. He lost his life too, gunned down. If you want empathy, learn how to give it. Let the world be one.
Your right it was the transgirls fault. After all, all we do is decieve and trick. We dont deserve justice. I mean your brother did nothing wrong just acted in a moment of transrage. Its completely ok.

from the sound of it its not a hate crime. He didnt go out to kill a transexual. However as a transexual i can understand why people think that it is. But dont come to me and want me to be compassionate for someone who murdered a sister. Even more so when as the trial starts every one is going to blame her anyways.

Im sorry that this happened to your family. But this girl deserves justice. Your brother could have just kicked her out of the car. He didnt have to shoot her twice.

“Even an Ice Princess can melt.”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#11 Nov 16, 2009
Oh and Lisa I guarantee her name will be dragged through the mud far more than your brother. Most people will see him as a god fearing country loving soldier who made a mistake.

She will be seen as a freak of nature who tricked a marine into having sex with her and that she deserved what she got. I've seen it too many times.
lisa vallor

Phoenix, AZ

#13 Feb 15, 2010
I guess my point was misconstrued. I'll repeat. I do not want to see any hate crimes continue. No one should have lost their life that night... Of course what my brother did was horrendous. The tragic victim deserved to live.
Oh, and my brother is not seen as a good ol' god fearing soldier. But is, and should be seen as a victim of the establishment that systematically created a killer.
There were two victims that night.
Read my original post. I never condemed the victim, nor did I blace blame.

Any questions?
lisa vallor

Phoenix, AZ

#14 Feb 15, 2010
Roisia wrote:
<quoted text>
Your right it was the transgirls fault. After all, all we do is decieve and trick. We dont deserve justice. I mean your brother did nothing wrong just acted in a moment of transrage. Its completely ok.
from the sound of it its not a hate crime. He didnt go out to kill a transexual. However as a transexual i can understand why people think that it is. But dont come to me and want me to be compassionate for someone who murdered a sister. Even more so when as the trial starts every one is going to blame her anyways.
Im sorry that this happened to your family. But this girl deserves justice. Your brother could have just kicked her out of the car. He didnt have to shoot her twice.
When did I state she deserved what happened? Do I think he had to do what he did? Shoot her? How could you even suggest that. There was no trial. He shot himself immediately after. That's not justice, no one should have died. There were two victims that night. Not just yours. And he was not born a murderer, he was made one. You want justice? Focus on the organization currently creating 20 year old's into killers. There are more victims from this then transgendered.

“Even an Ice Princess can melt.”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#15 Feb 15, 2010
lisa vallor wrote:
<quoted text>
When did I state she deserved what happened? Do I think he had to do what he did? Shoot her? How could you even suggest that. There was no trial. He shot himself immediately after. That's not justice, no one should have died. There were two victims that night. Not just yours. And he was not born a murderer, he was made one. You want justice? Focus on the organization currently creating 20 year old's into killers. There are more victims from this then transgendered.
I have lived all my life knowing that when i die chances are i will be murdered. Not because im a bad person. Not because i live my life in crime filled areas. I have never done drugs i have never even been to court. But i will most likely be murdered. And when I am Do you know who will be blamed. Me. In the case of killing a trans person the murdered gets little sympathy. Take this case here. It was proven that he knew that she was trans. That he meet her on the bisexual section of a dating site. That he went to court with her and her birth name was called out. He knew what she was from the beginning. Now who do you think gets blamed most and who do you think gets sympathy.

Well from what i have read this is the general feeling.

Andrade was some poor guy. Who was lured in by a MAN pretending to be a woman to have sex with him. That he acted out in a moment of rage and that while it isn't right what he did was understandable given the situation.

Angie was a guy trying to seduce straight men into having sex with her by pretending she was a woman. That She brought this on herself and Andrede was the victim

Ironically Andrade was the first case were trans panic defense didnt win.

Am i saddened by what happened to your brother. Of course i believe No one should take their own life. I was under the impression that he killed himself before going to jail not the same night. I really dont think any one should die. And if it was the transgender person who was the murderer I would probably show her less compassion than i would your brother. Your right two lives have been destroyed. However they wouldn't have been if one just walked away. I understand that he might have been stressed and suffering from PTSD. If that was the case then the ones to blame are the military for not helping him in the first place. However his actions cannot be excused.
lisa vallor

Phoenix, AZ

#16 Feb 15, 2010
I agree with you completely he was responsible. End of story. But I truly believe it wasn't from hatred towards transgendered.(We were both huge Eddie Izzard fans, a transvestite,..really funny in case you don't know)He should not have had a gun on him at all. I think any type of person in Hollywood that night was in danger. He was not even drunk or on drugs. It was not her fault at all. It makes me sad to hear you believe you have a better chance of being murdered than even a car crash. I don't know where you live or how people are there. I hope that's not true. I hope you can find a place or time where you can be happier. I hope I'm not sounding condescending. I just thought that was so sad. Everyone needs to be positive, no matter how much life sucks.
Thank you for taking the time to see the other side. You seem like a warm and cerebral person.
I hope you get everything you want in life.
Roisia wrote:
<quoted text>
I have lived all my life knowing that when i die chances are i will be murdered. Not because im a bad person. Not because i live my life in crime filled areas. I have never done drugs i have never even been to court. But i will most likely be murdered. And when I am Do you know who will be blamed. Me. In the case of killing a trans person the murdered gets little sympathy. Take this case here. It was proven that he knew that she was trans. That he meet her on the bisexual section of a dating site. That he went to court with her and her birth name was called out. He knew what she was from the beginning. Now who do you think gets blamed most and who do you think gets sympathy.
Well from what i have read this is the general feeling.
Andrade was some poor guy. Who was lured in by a MAN pretending to be a woman to have sex with him. That he acted out in a moment of rage and that while it isn't right what he did was understandable given the situation.
Angie was a guy trying to seduce straight men into having sex with her by pretending she was a woman. That She brought this on herself and Andrede was the victim
Ironically Andrade was the first case were trans panic defense didnt win.
Am i saddened by what happened to your brother. Of course i believe No one should take their own life. I was under the impression that he killed himself before going to jail not the same night. I really dont think any one should die. And if it was the transgender person who was the murderer I would probably show her less compassion than i would your brother. Your right two lives have been destroyed. However they wouldn't have been if one just walked away. I understand that he might have been stressed and suffering from PTSD. If that was the case then the ones to blame are the military for not helping him in the first place. However his actions cannot be excused.

“Just call me Das. ”

Since: Jul 07

Chicago, IL

#17 Feb 15, 2010
Lisa, I'm sorry this happened to your family. But take a look at the thread you're on. It's 2010, and the fact that someone was actually convicted for killing a transgender person is NEWS. This is new. How appalling is that? It is now, finally, the case that murdering us is treated as, well, a crime.

This is not the place to ask for sympathy for people who murder us, given that until now they have done so with near impunity.
lisa vallor

Mesa, AZ

#20 Feb 15, 2010
Oh, no I'm trilled about the outcome of that particular case. Using the panic defense is reminiscent of when husbands could kill their wives they caught cheating. I think this is the perfect thread to be on. Sympathy I do not ask for. Understanding of why this is happening and the different causes maybe can do more good. Conviction is great, but prevention is better.
I never meant to say that my brother was innocent. But after seeing how people were being informed. It wasn't' against transgendered.
After reading this forum I see that I didn't realize the extent you see yourselves so separate from the mainstream. I have no more sympathy for a transexual who is murdered than I do for a woman beaten to death, or a female prostitute being in a ditch. All happen too often and for too long.
I hope I'm not offending.
I thought this was exactly the place to be bringing up questions. I appreciate you saying sorry, but sympathy I don't need its of no use. Only learning so that changes can be made.
I hope you can understand. Peace
lisa vallor

Mesa, AZ

#21 Feb 15, 2010
I should've written I have no less sympathy for ........
sorry bout that, it came out wrong
Frank Stanton

Saratoga Springs, NY

#22 Feb 15, 2010
I have always believed in the Death Penalty, and still do.

This crime calls for the Death Penalty.

Just as the murders of Matthew Shepard, Gwen Araujo, and Lawrence King did.

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