Effort to stamp out Christian influence

Effort to stamp out Christian influence

There are 117 comments on the Daily Herald story from Feb 4, 2013, titled Effort to stamp out Christian influence. In it, Daily Herald reports that:

Homosexual "marriage" should continue to be prohibited and civil unions also must be repealed.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Daily Herald.

TOKN

San Jose, CA

#102 Feb 7, 2013
Rainbow Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not strange
.
You are
STOP talking to your reflection in the mirror
Rainbow Kid

Alpharetta, GA

#103 Feb 7, 2013
TOKN wrote:
<quoted text>
STOP talking to your reflection in the mirror
Do rainbows reflect in mirrors?

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#104 Feb 7, 2013
Rainbow Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
Do rainbows reflect in mirrors?
Fundies don't ... vampires don't have reflections, remember?
Fitz

Roseville, MI

#105 Feb 7, 2013
The former Soviet Union, the entire eastern block and China (as well as multiple other counries) had expressley atheistic regimes that lterally killed Christians by the millions, prohinited religious practice, burned down churches and prevented religious believers from multiple employment and other services.

If eliminating rligion by goverment and authoritarian regimes could work, it would have.

Phenomena like same-sex "marriage" will give Christians a powerfull new weapon in proving to people how misguided and small the anti-religious are.

The simple and effective argument that children need their Mothers and Fathers will continue to be the bottom line for most people.

The more the left does to marganalize, demonize and make illegal this understanding the better Chritianity will look.

Since: Dec 08

El Paso, TX

#106 Feb 7, 2013
Not until they start working to keep the marriages they already have in place. They could work to make divorce illegal for instance or to work towards putting women who have kids out of wedlock to either marry the kids father or go to jail and the kids placed in some lovely Christian home.

Stop blaming the left on problems you refuse to do anything about. It's much easier for your ilk to blame others instead of taking responsibility for your own.
Fitz wrote:
The former Soviet Union, the entire eastern block and China (as well as multiple other counries) had expressley atheistic regimes that lterally killed Christians by the millions, prohinited religious practice, burned down churches and prevented religious believers from multiple employment and other services.
If eliminating rligion by goverment and authoritarian regimes could work, it would have.
Phenomena like same-sex "marriage" will give Christians a powerfull new weapon in proving to people how misguided and small the anti-religious are.
The simple and effective argument that children need their Mothers and Fathers will continue to be the bottom line for most people.
The more the left does to marganalize, demonize and make illegal this understanding the better Chritianity will look.

“ ILKS r kewl ”

Since: Apr 09

Conch republic

#108 Feb 7, 2013
Rainbow Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
STFU Freak
Oh.. here's the imposter troll again!
Mommies callin ya!
Fitz

Roseville, MI

#110 Feb 7, 2013
TomInElPaso wrote:
Not until they start working to keep the marriages they already have in place. They could work to make divorce illegal for instance or to work towards putting women who have kids out of wedlock to either marry the kids father or go to jail and the kids placed in some lovely Christian home.
Stop blaming the left on problems you refuse to do anything about. It's much easier for your ilk to blame others instead of taking responsibility for your own.
<quoted text>
Oh, authentic Christian CHurch's hae been working tirelessly to first createand then maintain healthy marriages. Regular attending CHurch goering couples have the lowest divorce rtes of any group, and religions have a plethera of services to help troubed couples.

Its just that these programs dont generate the headlines that gay "marriage" does.

We have been working for decades to revisit "no-fault" divorce. A project the mainline Christianswere against, while the left said it would not effect anyone elses marriage.. They blew it big time and were proved wrong.

But no serious person is advocating we make divorce illegal in this country, that would be draconian and illegal.

Likewise your authoritarian plan to jail woman who have children outside of wedlock. All we can do as compasionate people is promote genuine marriage and be agianst out-of-wedlock sex.

We could do a bteer job of it but the cultural left has been jeering these policy positions for decades as the rate of illigetamacy has climed to never before seen highs...(a nutron bomb on the black family).

This latest attack on marriage by redifining it illustrates were the heart of the left really is. If they cared about marriage and monogomy they would have been with us on those other fights...They dont and they were not.

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#111 Feb 8, 2013
Fitz wrote:
.....
The simple and effective argument that children need their Mothers and Fathers will continue to be the bottom line for most people.
.....
Why?

Same sex couples marrying has no effect on straight people having and raising children.

If you are trying to make a point that society should do everything possible to make it difficult for gay couples to raise THEIR children, with no regard to the damage such a thing would cause, in a futile hope that it will frighten other gay couples from doing the same, then make THAT argument.

At least it would be honest.

However, our government doesn't step in to discourage single parents raising kids, do they? The government helps to SUPPORT them. If one spouse dies, does the state swoop in and remove kids from the remaining spouse until they find another mate?

No.

Do you want the government so involved in deciding what is the IDEAL family, and stepping in to take the children away from parents who don't live up to that ideal? If you don't live in a great place, have lots of money, or have religious beliefs not shared by the majority, etc?

I don't think you would support than.

And yet, you would make that judgement ONLY for gay couples, denying them the ability to be married, knowing that this harms those families, and their kids?

You certainly can't be a conservative or a christian if you want that sort of government interference in the lives of other parents and families.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#112 Feb 8, 2013
Fitz wrote:
The former Soviet Union, the entire eastern block and China (as well as multiple other counries) had expressley atheistic regimes that lterally killed Christians by the millions, prohinited religious practice, burned down churches and prevented religious believers from multiple employment and other services.
If eliminating rligion by goverment and authoritarian regimes could work, it would have.
Phenomena like same-sex "marriage" will give Christians a powerfull new weapon in proving to people how misguided and small the anti-religious are.
The simple and effective argument that children need their Mothers and Fathers will continue to be the bottom line for most people.
The more the left does to marganalize, demonize and make illegal this understanding the better Chritianity will look.
The more people like you write things like that, full of spelling errors that make you look stupid, the better chance we have of showing you have no credibility. Stupid people can't make wise decisions.

Nobody in this country is advocating the elimination of religion, so in addition to your spelling, that idea is extremely stupid.

Americans understand we have no government religion, and the government has no interest in promoting any one religion (or the lack of it) over another.

Gay people are not anti-religious. Many of us are just as religious as the next person. I am probably more religious than the average person. However, many gay people, once rejected by their religion, understandably turn against it. That is a natural and human reaction. Some may eventually find sanctuary in another church, or just through prayer. Some may become atheist or agnostic.

So if you have a problem with atheists or agnostics (I don't) then the way you treat gay people is necessarily creating more atheists and agnostics.

Same sex marriage has no such effects as what you predicted. The time for "what-ifs" was over a decade ago. None of these things have happened where same sex marriage has been legally recognized.

Further, your arguments are nonsensical. All we are talking about here is legal recognition, not the very existence of same sex marriages. So whether or not they are legally recognized, same sex marriages will exist, and same sex parents raising children will exists. Those kids are simply disadvantaged under the law because their parents' marriages are not legally recognized. So great - you slap little kids in the face because of your prejudice. How fake "christian" of you.

The "bottom line" for most people is and will continue to be freedom and equality.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#113 Feb 8, 2013
Fitz wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, authentic Christian CHurch's hae been working tirelessly to first createand then maintain healthy marriages.
Then they are clearly inept.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#114 Feb 8, 2013
Fitz wrote:
But no serious person is advocating we make divorce illegal in this country, that would be draconian and illegal.
It would be more biblicially justifiable than banning same sex marriage.

It would also affect more kids.

Since: Apr 08

Cleveland, OH

#115 Feb 8, 2013
Fitz wrote:
Phenomena like same-sex "marriage" will give Christians a powerfull new weapon in proving to people how misguided and small the anti-religious are.
Anti-gay people do not hold exclusive ownership over Christianity. There are lots of pro-gay Christians too.

In Canada the largest protestant denomination, the United Church of Canada, supported the efforts to gain legal recognition for same-sex marriages a decade ago when the debate was raging there. Same-sex marriages have been legal across Canada now since 2003. Same-sex couples in Canada can be married in a United church (along with many other denominations) just like heterosexual couples.

Since: Dec 08

El Paso, TX

#116 Feb 8, 2013
Well over time you've certainly proven where your focus is and it's certainly not on fixing the current marriage problems for heterosexuals, You're on Gay Topix for hours each day attempting to disparidge the participants here.

Seems you'd rather spend your time arguing Gay issues than on saving heterosexual marriage.

I guess that's what real Christians do.
Fitz wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, authentic Christian CHurch's hae been working tirelessly to first createand then maintain healthy marriages. Regular attending CHurch goering couples have the lowest divorce rtes of any group, and religions have a plethera of services to help troubed couples.
Its just that these programs dont generate the headlines that gay "marriage" does.
We have been working for decades to revisit "no-fault" divorce. A project the mainline Christianswere against, while the left said it would not effect anyone elses marriage.. They blew it big time and were proved wrong.
But no serious person is advocating we make divorce illegal in this country, that would be draconian and illegal.
Likewise your authoritarian plan to jail woman who have children outside of wedlock. All we can do as compasionate people is promote genuine marriage and be agianst out-of-wedlock sex.
We could do a bteer job of it but the cultural left has been jeering these policy positions for decades as the rate of illigetamacy has climed to never before seen highs...(a nutron bomb on the black family).
This latest attack on marriage by redifining it illustrates were the heart of the left really is. If they cared about marriage and monogomy they would have been with us on those other fights...They dont and they were not.
Fitz

Roseville, MI

#117 Feb 8, 2013
Tony C wrote:
<quoted text>
The more people like you write things like that, full of spelling errors that make you look stupid, the better chance we have of showing you have no credibility. Stupid people can't make wise decisions.
Nobody in this country is advocating the elimination of religion, so in addition to your spelling, that idea is extremely stupid.
Americans understand we have no government religion, and the government has no interest in promoting any one religion (or the lack of it) over another.
Gay people are not anti-religious. Many of us are just as religious as the next person. I am probably more religious than the average person. However, many gay people, once rejected by their religion, understandably turn against it. That is a natural and human reaction. Some may eventually find sanctuary in another church, or just through prayer. Some may become atheist or agnostic.
So if you have a problem with atheists or agnostics (I don't) then the way you treat gay people is necessarily creating more atheists and agnostics.
Same sex marriage has no such effects as what you predicted. The time for "what-ifs" was over a decade ago. None of these things have happened where same sex marriage has been legally recognized.
Further, your arguments are nonsensical. All we are talking about here is legal recognition, not the very existence of same sex marriages. So whether or not they are legally recognized, same sex marriages will exist, and same sex parents raising children will exists. Those kids are simply disadvantaged under the law because their parents' marriages are not legally recognized. So great - you slap little kids in the face because of your prejudice. How fake "christian" of you.
The "bottom line" for most people is and will continue to be freedom and equality.
Most Christian denominations and evangelical Church's simply teach the basic Christian sexual ethic. Like fornication and adultery, homosexual persons are simply commanded not to act on their sexual urges.

The Church's dont spend alot of time harping on this. It is the insecure homosexuals themselves who have been radicalized to believe that being told not to have homosexual sex is the same as rejecting a persons humanity.

Its kind of telling that sexual activity is so important to the gay mind that any adomonition against it is seen as a personal attack. Funny that the fornicators or divorcess dont act that way, and accept Christian teachingeven if they dont practice it.

"Marriage is neither a conservative nor a liberal issue; it is a universal human institution, guaranteeing children fathers, and pointing men and women toward a special kind of socially as well as personally fruitful sexual relationship. Gay marriage is the final step down a long road America has already traveled toward deinstitutionalizing, denuding and privatizing marriage. It would set in legal stone some of the most destructive ideas of the sexual revolution: There are no differences between men and women that matter, marriage has nothing to do with procreation, children do not really need mothers and fathers, the diverse family forms adults choose are all equally good for children. What happens in my heart is that I know the difference. Don't confuse my people, who have been the victims of deliberate family destruction, by giving them another definition of marriage."

Walter Fauntroy-Former DC Delegate to CongressFounding member of the Congressional Black CaucusCoordinator for Martin Luther King, Jr.'s march on DC

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#118 Feb 8, 2013
Fitz wrote:
<quoted text>
Most Christian denominations and evangelical Church's simply teach the basic Christian sexual ethic. Like fornication and adultery, homosexual persons are simply commanded not to act on their sexual urges.
...
That may be the ethic of certain denominations, but certainly not all.

And for good reason.

God made gay folks, and he instilled in each of us the exact same sexual and emotional drives he gave everyone else. He didn't do it as a practical joke, or because He is a twisted nutcase who likes to torture innocent people.

"Fornication" is no more a sin for married gay couples than it is for married gay couples, and that includes couples who marry, but the state refuses to grant them legal recognition. Adultery is exactly the same for straight couples as is is for gay couples.

What doesn't make sense it to pretend that the very same behaviors that are blessed and bring joy and happiness to humans are ONLY evil if people who God created as gay engage in them.

If you believe your God is that sort of sick creature, expect a fight if you try to apply it's cruelty to people who don't believe as you do.

The proper response is to agree to disagree, and allow others to worship of not as THEY choose.

Trust God to see into each person's heart and soul and sort everything out. Don't try to do the same.
Fitz

Roseville, MI

#119 Feb 8, 2013
Quest wrote:
<quoted text>
That may be the ethic of certain denominations, but certainly not all.
And for good reason.
God made gay folks, and he instilled in each of us the exact same sexual and emotional drives he gave everyone else. He didn't do it as a practical joke, or because He is a twisted nutcase who likes to torture innocent people.
"Fornication" is no more a sin for married gay couples than it is for married gay couples, and that includes couples who marry, but the state refuses to grant them legal recognition. Adultery is exactly the same for straight couples as is is for gay couples.
What doesn't make sense it to pretend that the very same behaviors that are blessed and bring joy and happiness to humans are ONLY evil if people who God created as gay engage in them.
If you believe your God is that sort of sick creature, expect a fight if you try to apply it's cruelty to people who don't believe as you do.
The proper response is to agree to disagree, and allow others to worship of not as THEY choose.
Trust God to see into each person's heart and soul and sort everything out. Don't try to do the same.
Your really not well versed in sexual ethics much less the Christian understanding of sexuality.

Two males and two females are simply encapable of the "very same behaviors" as a man & woman.

And just because someones urges are real and authentic dosent mean that "God made them that way" - One could use the same argument as a fornicator, an adulteror or a bigamist or polygamist, or theif or drunk for that matter.

Homosexuals dont get some special dispensation because they feel so unique amoungst sinners.

Its also really novel to hear gay people suddenly making the argument for married manogomous sexual exclusivity. I dont expect such arguments to continue once they get what they want, nor do I expect them to be promulgated within the mainstream or gay press, nor will gay men and woman expect fidelity and monogomy before or during marriage amougst themselves outside (sometimes) the couple themselves.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#120 Feb 8, 2013
Fitz wrote:
<quoted text>
Most Christian denominations and evangelical Church's simply teach the basic Christian sexual ethic. Like fornication and adultery, homosexual persons are simply commanded not to act on their sexual urges.
The Church's dont spend alot of time harping on this. It is the insecure homosexuals themselves who have been radicalized to believe that being told not to have homosexual sex is the same as rejecting a persons humanity.
Its kind of telling that sexual activity is so important to the gay mind that any adomonition against it is seen as a personal attack. Funny that the fornicators or divorcess dont act that way, and accept Christian teachingeven if they dont practice it.
"Marriage is neither a conservative nor a liberal issue; it is a universal human institution, guaranteeing children fathers, and pointing men and women toward a special kind of socially as well as personally fruitful sexual relationship. Gay marriage is the final step down a long road America has already traveled toward deinstitutionalizing, denuding and privatizing marriage. It would set in legal stone some of the most destructive ideas of the sexual revolution: There are no differences between men and women that matter, marriage has nothing to do with procreation, children do not really need mothers and fathers, the diverse family forms adults choose are all equally good for children. What happens in my heart is that I know the difference. Don't confuse my people, who have been the victims of deliberate family destruction, by giving them another definition of marriage."
Walter Fauntroy-Former DC Delegate to CongressFounding member of the Congressional Black CaucusCoordinator for Martin Luther King, Jr.'s march on DC
I do not "act on sexual urges." If that were the case, I would cheat on my husband. I do not. So don't compare me to an adulterer. That's insulting. I have no lack of restraint or discipline whatsoever. So don't oversimplify.

Nobody has any standing to tell us not to have sex. That does not come from either insecurity or radicalism. We are free in this country and that is that. We have no need to address churches (beyond attending our own) except they tend to overstep their bounds and get in the way of our rights as American citizens.

It's funny that all you think of when you talk of gay people is "sexual activity." No, "sexual activity" is not "so important." Attacking my marriage is not attacking sexual activity, it is attacking my family, and will be met with a fierce defense as anyone would protect their family.

Fornicators and divorcers have (depending on one's opinion) done something wrong. I have only gotten married and remained faithful. Do not compare me with fornicators and divorcers. These are people who truly cannot control their sexual urges and/or did not take marriage seriously enough. That is quite the opposite of me and my husband.

Marriage does not guaranteed children fathers, in case you hadn't noticed - or mothers for that matter.

All those problems with marriage and families - every last one - was caused by you, not by us. And our marriages already exist beside yours. Mine is better than more than half of yours, and worth more to society than more than half of yours.

If your marriage is affected by mine, then yours is very weak and so are you. Talk about insecure.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#121 Feb 8, 2013
Tony C wrote:
<quoted text>
The more people like you write things like that, full of spelling errors that make you look stupid, the better chance we have of showing you have no credibility. Stupid people can't make wise decisions.
Nobody in this country is advocating the elimination of religion, so in addition to your spelling, that idea is extremely stupid.
Americans understand we have no government religion, and the government has no interest in promoting any one religion (or the lack of it) over another.
Gay people are not anti-religious. Many of us are just as religious as the next person. I am probably more religious than the average person. However, many gay people, once rejected by their religion, understandably turn against it. That is a natural and human reaction. Some may eventually find sanctuary in another church, or just through prayer. Some may become atheist or agnostic.
So if you have a problem with atheists or agnostics (I don't) then the way you treat gay people is necessarily creating more atheists and agnostics.
Same sex marriage has no such effects as what you predicted. The time for "what-ifs" was over a decade ago. None of these things have happened where same sex marriage has been legally recognized.
Further, your arguments are nonsensical. All we are talking about here is legal recognition, not the very existence of same sex marriages. So whether or not they are legally recognized, same sex marriages will exist, and same sex parents raising children will exists. Those kids are simply disadvantaged under the law because their parents' marriages are not legally recognized. So great - you slap little kids in the face because of your prejudice. How fake "christian" of you.
The "bottom line" for most people is and will continue to be freedom and equality.
P.S. Fitz: you didn't answer anything in this post to which you replied. I don't sit here and type things for them to be ignored. You do that again, you're cut off.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#122 Feb 8, 2013
Fitz wrote:
Its also really novel to hear gay people suddenly making the argument for married manogomous sexual exclusivity. I dont expect such arguments to continue once they get what they want, nor do I expect them to be promulgated within the mainstream or gay press, nor will gay men and woman expect fidelity and monogomy before or during marriage amougst themselves outside (sometimes) the couple themselves.
Well this is your opportunity to learn from real live gay people rather than from "christian" propaganda.

What you people call "monogamy" these days is a joke: get married for 3 years, have a kid, get divorced, screw around for 5 years, then get married again for 10 years. Yeah, that's sacred.

I have no problem being monogamous. It's not difficult. It's not a struggle. It's what I want. I know what I have here, and I want for nothing. Unlike most straight people, my vows before God were not just empty words.

A smart person would realize my marriage sets a high bar and strengthens the institution of marriage. We didn't get married because somebody got knocked up. We didn't get divorced after our first fight. And we do not cheat, period. These things were discussed well before getting married, because we take marriage seriously and did not want to end up divorced. I think that would be just about the worst thing that could happen in my life, to get divorced.

So you can keep talking smack, but you don't know what you're talking about. You'd do much better to respectfully ask questions of married gay people, rather than make assumptions borne of ignorance.

Since: Apr 08

Cleveland, OH

#123 Feb 9, 2013
Tony C and his spouse are hardly alone either among same-sex couples. My same-sex spouse and I are happily married and are monogamous. This year we are celebrating our 25th year together. We are also raising two great kids who are now both teenagers.

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