Group of Illinois religious leaders l...

Group of Illinois religious leaders lobbies for marriage equality

There are 44 comments on the www.proudparenting.com story from Dec 26, 2012, titled Group of Illinois religious leaders lobbies for marriage equality. In it, www.proudparenting.com reports that:

More than 200 pastors and rabbis are calling for lawmakers to approve legislation allowing marriage equality. They will send a letter stating their plan to state lawmakers...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.proudparenting.com.

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#35 Dec 26, 2012
What wrote:
<quoted text>
Amazing since Christ Jesus is the Author of all Scipture including the OT and it was Christ Himself who destroyed Sodom.
Matthew 5:11
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me."
That part refers to the way you treat me and anyone else who doesn't bow to you as God.
Thanks for blessing me!
Mick

Oak Lawn, IL

#38 Dec 27, 2012
Het Caleab are you also stoning to death people who eat shrimp or have tattoos as Leviticus also says!

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#39 Dec 27, 2012
"If Jesus ever said anything about homosexuality, it is not recorded in the Bible, even mistranslated. He did, however, speak extensively on God's unconditional love. Yet instead of dwelling on biblical love, Christians have historically been more concerned with obscure passages of Levitical cleanliness codes and Paul's misunderstood comments in Romans. Instead of focusing on the incredible injustice and hatred demonstrated by Christians and others, tying to deny homosexuals even basic civil rights, people appear more concerned with the specific homosexual acts between consenting adults who are naturally have a homosexual orientation. As James B. Nelson notes, the Bible more clearly advocates a "love ethic" rather than a "sex ethic."

I Cor 6:9, no way refers to homosexuality. The original Greek word often quoted as sexual immorality, Paul used was "porneia" which means "a harlot for hire". In Corinth in the temples of Venus, the principal deity of Corinth, where Christians went to worship, a thousand public prostitutes were kept at public expense to glorify and act as surrogates for the fertility Gods. This sex with the pagan Gods is what Paul was talking about - fornication is an admitted mistranslation and has nothing to do with gays or singles sex. This rendering reflected the bias of the translators rather than an accurate translation of Paul's words to a culture of 2000 years ago worshipping pagan sex gods.

Romans 1:26-27 mentions homosexual acts performed by people who are clearly described as heterosexual. The men in the NT patriarchal culture exerted dominance not only over women, but over younger males as well. The nature of homosexual acts in the Bible are so very different from what we know as homosexuality today that the passages have no application to today's homosexuality. Such practices as in NT times simply no longer exist. Alleged references to homosexuality in I Corinthians and I Timothy are the inventions of anti-gay translators. They are not in the original Greek texts." (Rev.Dr. Mel White) The word "homosexual" wasn't even invented until 1869. When you see it in the bible, you know it is a modern mistranslation and misinterpretation of the original texts.

"What the Bible forbids is acts of lust, rape, idolatry, violation of religious purity obligations, or pederasty, but no condemnation of homosexuality in relationships of mutual respect and love. "On the other hand, the Bible pointedly celebrates instances of same-sex emotional intimacy, a fact often overlooked by fearful homophobic readers." James B. Nelson, Professor of Christian Ethics, United Theological Seminary

Yet Jesus told us:

John 13:34: A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.

John 15:12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.

John 15:17: This is my command: Love each other.

Matthew 7:1: "Do not judge, or you too will be judged.

Luke 6:37: "Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

Matthew 7:12: So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

Meanwhile, a few mistranslated and misinterpreted verses promoted by some who claim to be Christians, continue to cause needless suffering and death, here and around the world.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#40 Dec 27, 2012
The use of the story of Sodom to label a sex act is a good example of a misinterpretation and misapplication of biblical verses to demonize and dehumanize.

"The primarily sexual meaning of the word sodomia for Christians did not evolve before the 6th century AD. Roman Emperor Justinian I, in his novels no. 77 (dating 538) and no. 141 (dating 559) amended to his Corpus iuris civilis, and declared that Sodom's sin had been specifically same-sex activities and desire for them. He also linked "famines, earthquakes, and pestilences" upon cities as being due to "such crimes", during a time of recent earthquakes and other disasters." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy

Sin of Sodom http://www.iwgonline.org/docs/sodom.html

"There are about twenty references to the story of Sodom in the Bible, and none of them says homosexuality was the sin of Sodom. One of the most extensive references to Sodom is found in Ezekiel, which says,“This was the guilt of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. They were haughty and did abominable things before me; therefore I removed them when I saw it.”(Ezekiel 16:49-50 (See note 5.)) It is clear from this passage (and others like it (See note 6.)) that the abomination of Sodom, according to the Old Testament prophets, was that they behaved with callous indifference toward the weak and vulnerable — the poor, orphans, widows, and strangers in their midst." http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblica...

The point of Sodom was that you should love others, not abuse them. It was about harming them instead of treating them the way you want to be treated. It was about how you treat "the stranger at the gate." It had nothing to do with loving same sex relationships based on mutual respect and love between adults.

"Jesus and five Old Testament prophets all speak of the sins that led to the destruction of Sodom -- and not one of them mentions homosexuality. Even Billy Graham doesn't mention homosexuality when he preaches on Sodom."
"Ezekiel 16:48-49 tell us: "This is the sin of Sodom; she and her suburbs had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not help or encourage the poor and needy. They were arrogant and this was abominable in God's eyes."

"It was common for soldiers, thieves, and bullies to rape a fallen enemy, asserting their victory by dehumanizing and demeaning the vanquished. This act of raping an enemy is about power and revenge,"

And it still happens today, most notoriously in prisons. It is not about love. It is about power, control, domination, and abuse. Rape is not love.

"The sexual act that occurs in the story of Sodom is a gang rape -- and homosexuals oppose gang rape as much as anyone. That's why I believe the story of Sodom says a lot about God's will for each of us, but nothing about homosexuality as we understand it today." ( quotes from: What the Bible says - and doesn't say - about Homosexuality)

Even the English versions of this story demonstrate there was nothing that can be honestly used to condemn gay people. Many other explanations including the Jewish versions of the this story agree the message is that you should not harm others but instead, treat them with love.

"In Sodom every one who gave bread and water to the poor was condemned to death by fire (Yal&#7731;., Gen. 83). Two girls, one poor and the other rich, went to a well; and the former gave the latter her jug of water, receiving in return a vessel containing bread. When this became known, both were burned alive."
http://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13827-...

So when you see verses that refer to Sodomites, they are addressing those who harm others needlessly, not same sex relationships based on mutual love and respect.

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#41 Dec 27, 2012
Not Yet Equal wrote:
The use of the story of Sodom to label a sex act is a good example of a misinterpretation and misapplication of biblical verses to demonize and dehumanize.
"The primarily sexual meaning of the word sodomia for Christians did not evolve before the 6th century AD. Roman Emperor Justinian I, in his novels no. 77 (dating 538) and no. 141 (dating 559) amended to his Corpus iuris civilis, and declared that Sodom's sin had been specifically same-sex activities and desire for them. He also linked "famines, earthquakes, and pestilences" upon cities as being due to "such crimes", during a time of recent earthquakes and other disasters." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy
Sin of Sodom http://www.iwgonline.org/docs/sodom.html
"There are about twenty references to the story of Sodom in the Bible, and none of them says homosexuality was the sin of Sodom. One of the most extensive references to Sodom is found in Ezekiel, which says,“This was the guilt of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. They were haughty and did abominable things before me; therefore I removed them when I saw it.”(Ezekiel 16:49-50 (See note 5.)) It is clear from this passage (and others like it (See note 6.)) that the abomination of Sodom, according to the Old Testament prophets, was that they behaved with callous indifference toward the weak and vulnerable — the poor, orphans, widows, and strangers in their midst." http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblica...
The point of Sodom was that you should love others, not abuse them. It was about harming them instead of treating them the way you want to be treated. It was about how you treat "the stranger at the gate." It had nothing to do with loving same sex relationships based on mutual respect and love between adults.
"Jesus and five Old Testament prophets all speak of the sins that led to the destruction of Sodom -- and not one of them mentions homosexuality. Even Billy Graham doesn't mention homosexuality when he preaches on Sodom."
"Ezekiel 16:48-49 tell us: "This is the sin of Sodom; she and her suburbs had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not help or encourage the poor and needy. They were arrogant and this was abominable in God's eyes."
"It was common for soldiers, thieves, and bullies to rape a fallen enemy, asserting their victory by dehumanizing and demeaning the vanquished. This act of raping an enemy is about power and revenge,"
And it still happens today, most notoriously in prisons. It is not about love. It is about power, control, domination, and abuse. Rape is not love.
"The sexual act that occurs in the story of Sodom is a gang rape -- and homosexuals oppose gang rape as much as anyone. That's why I believe the story of Sodom says a lot about God's will for each of us, but nothing about homosexuality as we understand it today." ( quotes from: What the Bible says - and doesn't say - about Homosexuality)
Even the English versions of this story demonstrate there was nothing that can be honestly used to condemn gay people. Many other explanations including the Jewish versions of the this story agree the message is that you should not harm others but instead, treat them with love.
"In Sodom every one who gave bread and water to the poor was condemned to death by fire (Yal&#7731;., Gen. 83). Two girls, one poor and the other rich, went to a well; and the former gave the latter her jug of water, receiving in return a vessel containing bread. When this became known, both were burned alive."
http://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13827-...
So when you see verses that refer to Sodomites, they are addressing those who harm others needlessly, not same sex relationships based on mutual love and respect.
Sadly, despite all the evidence you provided, the bigots will cling to their interpretation like pet hair on a sweater.

Since: Dec 08

Toronto, ON, Canada

#42 Dec 27, 2012
DNF wrote:
<quoted text>so?
Imam blesses union of gay Muslim couple in France
http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/04...
Due to the fact they face an order of death if they speak about this publicly, there is a growing number of Muslims, both lay and Imam who support equality and decent treatment of gays and lesbians.
I am aware of that but that number is still very small.

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#43 Dec 27, 2012
JohnInToronto wrote:
<quoted text>
I am aware of that but that number is still very small.
The number of people who thought Same Sex marriage should be legal back in the 60's was even smaller.

Heck the number of gay men who even considered the idea back then could probably be counted on one hand.

Once "Gay Lib" started our 'leaders' fought to make us separate and unique and insisted we never try to be like straights. Anyone who dared suggest marriage for gays and lesbians was labeled a traitor to the cause and a sell out.

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#45 Dec 27, 2012
Lime Lipstick wrote:
Well at least you're tacitly conceding homosexuality is chosen and proving my point that I drive home every day and that is this nation's moral infrastructure, str8's included, has deteriorated since the 60's. You're just jumpin up and down near the end claiming now you're gonna save the world when it was you through follywood and tech that fk'd us all up all along.
Way to go bro.
There you go again talking to yourself!

I didn't see anyone on this thread who is pro gay write anything even CLOSE to what your rambling about.(The choice issue)

That idea seems to be very important to you for some reason. Could it be that you're part of some 12 Step Recovery group? Always afraid you might "slip" and choose to abandon your program?

I heard about a camp that might help you. You stroke horses to cure your homosexual desires!

And this technology tangent you keep spinning off into. If technology bothers you so much then abandon it. Grow a set and learn to live without all the creature comforts technology gives you. Your car, your home, your computer and cell phone, the internet. Your TV's and and radios. Umbrellas. Shoes. Learn how to make your own fabrics and your own clothes. But remember you aren't allowed a spinning wheel or loom; those are part of "technology" too.

BTW LIME in the hanky code means you'll have sex for food!

Maybe you should just start using what the neighbor children call you. Tramp o leen!

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#46 Dec 27, 2012
OOs I forgot. Honesty and courage aren't part of Lime Lipstick's basic personality.

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#47 Dec 27, 2012
Guess that's why he feels so threatened by gays and lesbians.

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#50 Dec 27, 2012
The End of Days wrote:
Talkin to myself? LOL! That was you last night! God you're projecting your own frailties again. Pathetic.
No I included the quotes I responded to. Any reasonable person (at least those of us capable of reason) had no doubt who I was responding to.

But with all your bogus hanky code screen names (The Lime one fits you best) it's no wonder you lose track of who you're talking to.

David Moore has the same affliction.

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#51 Dec 27, 2012
The End of Days wrote:
You mad bro? You seem real mad today. Why so mad, BRO?
whoever this "bro" you keep talking to is, I'm fairly certain they plan on a complete blood transfusion and are filing papers to formally renounce any relationship and kinship to you.

Frankly I'd be embarrassed to admit you even lived on my block let alone that you were related to me!

“laugh until your belly hurts”

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#52 Dec 27, 2012
AzAdam wrote:
<quoted text>
Show me where the bible says that in red. No black letters please.
it doesn't say it in any colour.

“laugh until your belly hurts”

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#53 Dec 27, 2012
What wrote:
<quoted text>
Amazing since Christ Jesus is the Author of all Scipture including the OT and it was Christ Himself who destroyed Sodom.
wow! that must have been some good koolaid. you drank it all.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#54 Dec 27, 2012
Lime Lipstick wrote:
Well at least you're tacitly conceding homosexuality is chosen and proving my point that I drive home every day and that is this nation's moral infrastructure, str8's included, has deteriorated since the 60's. You're just jumpin up and down near the end claiming now you're gonna save the world when it was you through follywood and tech that fk'd us all up all along.
Way to go bro.
Every generation of bigots assumes the world is ending and blames hollywood or the media or society or gays or blacks or jews or women or martians.

You're just the latest iteration, and likely won't be the last.

You know you're officially an old geezer when you start bitching about how bad the current generation is compared to "the good old days"......

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#56 Dec 27, 2012
The Worlds Biggest Lie wrote:
See Federal Reserve Bank and Balfour Declaration for details sheep. Or Roosevelt,(yewish) forcing Americans to sell their gold, or after being broke and selling our souls further with the Social Security Act.
These bastards bankrupted this nation by design, they leave our southern border open by design, they keep us in the Middle East by design, they run our country by design, they subverted this country by design, they own the media by design, they run cali and ny, the most delegates, both of which are broke by design, they want the nation talking about you, their pet lap dog, by design, and many one day will be held accountable.
You are their sheep!
By design.
B`A`A`A`A`A`A`A`A`A`
Keep tilting at those windmills.......

Since: Dec 08

Toronto, ON, Canada

#57 Dec 27, 2012
The Worlds Biggest Lie wrote:
See Federal Reserve Bank and Balfour Declaration for details sheep. Or Roosevelt,(yewish) forcing Americans to sell their gold, or after being broke and selling our souls further with the Social Security Act.
These bastards bankrupted this nation by design, they leave our southern border open by design, they keep us in the Middle East by design, they run our country by design, they subverted this country by design, they own the media by design, they run cali and ny, the most delegates, both of which are broke by design, they want the nation talking about you, their pet lap dog, by design, and many one day will be held accountable.
You are their sheep!
By design.
B`A`A`A`A`A`A`A`A`A`
Typical antisemitic claptrap. The notion that Roosevelt was Jewish (I think that is what this troll meant be "yewish") came from Hitler, who tried to convince people his name was Rosenberg. Actually his great-great-great-great-grandf ather, who was also the same ancestor of Eleanor (they were fifth cousins) was one of the first Dutch settlers of New York state.

It is amazing idiots like these could believe such nonsense in the year 2012, but I guess it is no less incredible than morons believing all gays have HIV, molest children and eat shit like the various other trolls on here seem to think.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#58 Dec 27, 2012
DNF wrote:
<quoted text>Sadly, despite all the evidence you provided, the bigots will cling to their interpretation like pet hair on a sweater.
Agreed, and the proof of that can be found on these threads.

Yet, many never even considered the possibility that "Sodomy" had a very different meaning before the 6th century. They assume "Sodomites" had the same meaning it has today. The Jewish stories really drove that point home for me. Burning two girls alive for sharing bread and water. Wow! That's harsh. That's a Sodomite!

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#59 Dec 27, 2012
DNF wrote:
<quoted text>The number of people who thought Same Sex marriage should be legal back in the 60's was even smaller.
Heck the number of gay men who even considered the idea back then could probably be counted on one hand.
Once "Gay Lib" started our 'leaders' fought to make us separate and unique and insisted we never try to be like straights. Anyone who dared suggest marriage for gays and lesbians was labeled a traitor to the cause and a sell out.
I think much of that was influenced by location, with those in the "heartland" and more rural areas more interested in marriage. The first court cases were in the early 70's, and I attended my first same sex ceremony in '74. Women were probably more interested than men, but most men and women I knew then were looking for a long term, committed relationship, even though they knew legal marriage was not available.

“laugh until your belly hurts”

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#62 Dec 27, 2012
The Worlds Biggest Lie wrote:
<quoted text>
Yet amazingly another moron that cannot refute everything I spoke about in my previous post other than whether fdr was or was not yewish somewhere in his blood.
FDR surrounded himself with 'dozens' in his tenure. Is it any wonder he was president for almost 4 terms and basically confiscated the citizens gold through the new deal, orchestrated by a _____?
Sheesh.
it sounds to me as though someone should study history. fdr was the best president the u.s. ever had. he saved the u.s. and most of the world from the great depression through his programmes,+ saved the working man in his retirement.

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